Hey M. Have you established that your wife is "officially" an alcoholic? Alcoholism runs in my family so I'm altogether too familiar with it. As I read some posts and responses, I just want to make sure that you are dealing with true alcoholism vs. binge drinking, "my turn to live my best life" MLC behavior, and/or something that, while bad, isn't quite full-blown alcoholism yet. I apologize if you've established that in a prior post that I'm not recalling (and I'm a bit pressed for time or I'd re-read your posts). I ask because MWD talks about feeling differently about D when substance abuse is involved along with violence, etc.
I'm with Boat: ultimately you decide when it is time to D AND nothing your W can say will stop you. Some of the... pushback or perhaps hesitance..you may perceive from "us" likely stems from observing your stated feelings seemingly move back and forth over this relatively short period (which is natural) and now move to D. And, for example, if your W is a true alcoholic, then as DnJ suggests it would seem that attempting a professional intervention would be another option since you state you don't want a D. This is the "in sickness and in health, good times and bad" part.
Your feelings make total sense to me. Time is ticking away. You want to be happy. You worry about the impact on your kids. And, if your IC is on board with your decision, it may be the right one. I'm going to steal from DnJ's playbook a bit here and add that "feelings are fleeting" so be sure that your decision to D is NOT being driven by those feelings rather than a decision made when you're feelings are more quiet and the rationale brain is in control.
It is tricky because, as even MWD says, many ICs aren't properly trained and can focus too much on traditional CBT or other methods to just treat the person in front of them in ways that a licensed marital and family counselor IC may not.
I've taken ~4-5 years to work on the things I needed to be a better person and partner. Whether my W is unable or unwilling to forgive, put in similar work, MLCing, or whatever....I feel 100% OK with whichever path my life will take. I'm a plodder.
If YOU feel with 100% certainty that in ~5 months you've done all you can as best you can with what is w/i your control, including addressing the un-prince-like things Boat suggests we've all contributed to what got us here, then perhaps it is truly time to D.
Again (I haven’t taken time to review your post history) Maturin, have you reached out for support for you and your kids around W’s drinking?
In your community or online there can be some good fits for you with people who have been there before and can support and facilitate you staying on track and doing what is right for your family.
I have and still do this.
If you haven’t read it, I recommend you grab a copy of “Get Your Loved One Sober” from your local library and let us know here what you think.
All my best with solidarity hope respect and humble care.
I took about a week off from posting or reading on the board. I've been here daily since November and I wanted to take time to myself to make sure I had clarity on what I want, and what I see as the best path forward. I also stopped reading and re-reading the giant stack of self help and relationship books I've accumulated over the last 2+ years and instead read some historical non-fiction and news - what the "old me" loved to do (spoiler: the new me likes it too). But I did read everyone's input.
Regarding my W's drinking, she has alcoholism in her family but right now I would consider her as having a binge drinking disorder. She is not a daily drinker and can take multiple days off in a row. We have tried over the years to intervene but as anyone who has encountered this knows, the addict must be the one to want the change.
So here's the punch line. I have always considered infidelity as a deal-breaking boundary. When confronted with the fact that it actually happened in my own marriage it was a total shock and I went through all the stages of dealing with it. I am likely still going through that process but my emotions have stabilized considerably since September and I've had much time to reflect on what happened then and what has happened since.
I've decided to move forward with the divorce. I met with L yesterday to prepare paperwork and intend to speak to W late next week.
I plan to post here throughout the process. I am no longer trying to bust a divorce but will need guidance and the board has been a great resource for that.
Over the weekend my brother asked if there was anything W could do that would change my mind. I had called him because she was out drinking again (I'll spare you all the details of another story that sounds just like the other ones). I told him there wasn't anything she could say or do because the trust was gone, and I was tired of being taken for granted. In that moment I felt the clarity I had been searching for. I wasn't angry or hurt, I was relieved.
Over the weekend my brother asked if there was anything W could do that would change my mind. I had called him because she was out drinking again (I'll spare you all the details of another story that sounds just like the other ones). I told him there wasn't anything she could say or do because the trust was gone, and I was tired of being taken for granted. In that moment I felt the clarity I had been searching for. I wasn't angry or hurt, I was relieved.
I think you've been more than fair with her.
You've recognized your own behaviors that may have contributed to problems in your marriage.
Unlike many, she cannot possibly feel blindsided by your decision. You have told her repeatedly what she has done wrong and what needed to stop. She has not shown any indication of working on her problems or getting whatever help she needs.
Maybe this course of action will wake her up, if not to save her marriage at least to correct her course for her own future.
I think many reading here will support you. I hope you view this as the beginning of getting the life you deserve, because you deserve better than her.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
I told him there wasn't anything she could say or do because the trust was gone, and I was tired of being taken for granted. In that moment I felt the clarity I had been searching for. I wasn't angry or hurt, I was relieved.
This is a true sign that you are ready. I respect your decision. This IMO is what DB is about, becoming a man who understands this type of behavior is unacceptable and acts on it.
It sounds like you're in the right place, M. Trust is extremely difficult to restore, and from what you described your W isn't anywhere near a place to even think about truly re-earning it. I wish you much strength and support, for you and your kids, so that everyone comes out the other side of this in a truly better position. Keep us posted!
I spent most of the weekend with the kids and it was great. W was out of town visiting her sister/friends.
Friday the kids and I stayed in and I spent about an hour with S8 drawing cartoons from one of his favorite books. While we drew we talked, joked, and laughed. It was such a great micro-experience within the weekend and I felt so connected to him. In the blink of an eye he'll be a teenager and have much less time for his Dad, so I am greedily collecting these moments.
W came home y'day mid morning looking worse for wear. We chatted pleasantly and I went to a friend's to watch the Super Bowl. The party was attended mostly by people I didn't know, but I had a lot of fun meeting and getting to know them.
I look at these weekends as dry runs for D - alone time with the kids, then socializing without W or kids as a "single guy". Despite the focused time and attention I had given my kids all weekend, and the fact that we were only apart for a few hours, I did feel myself missing them and being sad that we were not together as a family during Super Bowl. I acknowledged and allowed myself to feel those feelings.
I've decided to stop drinking alcohol for a while. I had 3 beers at a basketball game last Tuesday and nothing since. This is something I had first considered in October of 22 when I heard the Huberman Lab podcast on alcohol and its negative effects, and W's drinking was really becoming a problem. Prior to that I had never considered it a problem for me, because I don't have an addiction and didn't exhibit compulsive behavior while drinking. Once I listened to the podcast and dug deeper, I realized that there is almost no benefit to drinking. I kept doing it because I was worried that W or others would judge me (she likes to tell people I'm boring, a NARC, etc). At this point I have grown way past caring about that. My main motivation is that alcohol can interfere with emotional regulation and I want to be as even keeled as possible in the coming months. I've already been in two or three social situations without it and really enjoyed myself.
Originally Posted by MrP
Trust is extremely difficult to restore, and from what you described your W isn't anywhere near a place to even think about truly re-earning it.
This captures the essence of why I've decided to take the next steps, MrP. Looking objectively at W's behavior I can see she does not want to make efforts to repair things right now. I know there are a lot of folks here who wait it out, even when OM2, OM3, etc enter the picture, but that is not for me.
Once I listened to the podcast and dug deeper, I realized that there is almost no benefit to drinking. I kept doing it because I was worried that W or others would judge me (she likes to tell people I'm boring, a NARC, etc). At this point I have grown way past caring about that. My main motivation is that alcohol can interfere with emotional regulation and I want to be as even keeled as possible in the coming months.
Interestingly, I just heard a presentation last week from a colleague at work that basically said the same thing: no real benefit to drinking, even in moderation. He has a background in nutrition. I wonder if he uses some of the same sources of information as you. He stated that even some alcoholic beverages with beneficial compounds (like red wine) are superfluous since the same compounds can be obtained from healthier sources.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
