Went out for two non-alcoholic beers with a friend who is two months sober yesterday. This guy has engaged in some of the most self-destructive behavior you can imagine for many years: severe binge drinking, philandering, etc. I was unaware the depths to which he sank. He is financially successful but his family and personal life have suffered greatly. Late last year he decided he'd had enough and wanted to turn his life around, which he is doing with the help of intensive therapy. I am very proud of him and told him as much.
Our conversation ran far and wide, from family to work to marriage. He does not know the details of my sitch and I haven't shared specifics, but I did tell him things are not good and I'm looking to expand my social circle beyond the main group I've been hanging with the last 3 years. I'm looking forward to connecting more with him.
For as long as I've been with my W (13 years) her brothers have been my closest friends. I always considered myself fortunate to have them as BILs because we were so close and it was never forced - we hung out because we loved each other. The revelation that they knew about the PA and never told me or earnestly encouraged my W to tell me has been very hurtful and I am not in communication with them any more. As I said here in my last thread, I told one of them directly that the lying changed things between us. We've gone from hanging out multiple times per week to not hanging out at all.
However, I'm eager to not be a bitter and self righteous guy about this. In keeping with advice received here I am focused on forgiving the action but holding the person accountable. What this looks like I'm not sure yet, but these guys are my kids's uncles (and I'm theirs) and we will have a life long relationship no matter what happens in my MR. More to come.
As I type this my wife is yelling at the kids during the morning routine, which is very normal. She is a ball of stress and I fight daily not to "fix it". Things between us remain cool and I am focused on GAL and 180s.
In keeping with advice received here I am focused on forgiving the action but and holding the person accountable.
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What this looks like I'm not sure yet. , but These guys are my kids's uncles (and I'm theirs) and we will have a life long relationship no matter what happens in my MR.
Using “but”, you’re telling your mind, reinforcing the idea, that these are contrasting and do not, cannot, exist together. That is one of the bigger hurdles in why folks have trouble with finding forgiveness, IMO. Both can exist, and need to exist, together, for forgiveness to flourish.
Forgive the deed, love the person, hold them accountable for their present behaviours, and enact boundaries on disrespect.
What these relationships will look like in the future, is unknown. You have a hand in crafting that future though. What do you want it to look like? Maybe start with, how do you want it to feel? I suspect you’d like peace. Feeling (believing) there is not some outstanding debt or them owing you something. What do you have to let go of for that? What do you have to embrace?
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Using “but”, you’re telling your mind, reinforcing the idea, that these are contrasting and do not, cannot, exist together. That is one of the bigger hurdles in why folks have trouble with finding forgiveness, IMO. Both can exist, and need to exist, together, for forgiveness to flourish.
I can see the logic here but I feel I have a long way to go. It is a goal nonetheless.
Tuesday was 4 months since dday and I am certainly more centered and grounded now than I was back then. I admit there are still moments when I can't believe this all happened and continues to happen, and I am not out of the woods with regard to emotional flooding. Last week I found myself crying in private at the pain this sitch will likely inflict on my kids. I remain detached and will look for any opportunity to get out of the house and socialize. Yesterday my D6 went to a friend's house for a playdate and the friend's parents offered to bring her home when it was over. After I wrapped work I headed over to their house instead to hang out with these parents (I like them, good people). When I told W I was leaving she scoffed and rolled her eyes: "What? Why? They said they would bring her home." I didn't say anything and left her sitting on the couch starting at her phone.
I know the alien metaphor is helpful to some folks and I have leaned on it occasionally myself. However I also accept that the MR I once had (or thought I had) is dead. I take responsibility for the lack of leadership and assertiveness I showed in the past and can now see how I let my W get away with behaviors that caused her to lose respect for me. I accept that W made her own choices and I cannot fix her.
Part of the struggle for me even before dday is that W was creating this world in which she was cool, fun, and social and I was uptight and controlling. She called me a "narc" more than once in front of others and I'm sure behind my back. I do acknowledge that as her behavior became more out of control, I criticized and judged her for partying and that was interpreted as controlling. But the reality is quite different IMO. I love to socialize and meet new people. I do it all day long for work and love putting myself in situations where I don't know many people because you never know when you'll meet a new friend. In my view W conflates "being social" with drinking alcohol - she wants to be around people who want to drink, that's all. She has set the bar low. Without alcohol she won't socialize much outside of our families. Now I cringe thinking of her lifestyle over the last few years: a married mother of 3 staying out at dive bars until close, getting wasted. When we were first married she used to talk about how glad she was that we had found one another and that her bar days were over, and how sad it was to see anyone over 30 staying out late. She has become that person.
GAL this weekend: outdoor convention w the kids and a friend on Friday, spending Saturday outside with another family, kids sports on Sunday. I need to weave in some "me" time - maybe that will just be a little quiet reading at some point. Keeping up with these kids can drain me!
I do acknowledge that as her behavior became more out of control, I criticized and judged her for partying and that was interpreted as controlling.
I see you struggle a lot with what you consider to be controlling behavior. It is not unreasonable for a husband to not want his W and mother of 3 out partying to all hours of the night and sometimes not going home. Currently, I would never tolerate that behavior from a partner. What often gets lost here is for a relationship to be successful both people need to be willing to blow it up on occasion, argue it out and be prepared to walk if a compromise can't be reached. That takes a lot of strength and self-confidence. Most men here including myself 10 years ago can't bring themselves to establish these types of boundaries.
You hit the nail on the head, Boat. I was always clear that I thought her behavior was out of line, but I didn't know what a boundary was or how to assert one. Instead I would just criticize her in a passive aggressive way and hope she got the message.
Even if I had known how to assert a boundary in a healthy, loving way the thought of blowing up the marriage would have never crossed my mind at the time: for many years our friends and family thought of us as "the perfect couple" and I took pride in that. The idea that we would not be married for life or that my W would lose attraction to me never crossed my mind.
Instead I would just criticize her in a passive aggressive way and hope she got the message.
What was the message you hope she got?
Originally Posted by Maturin
Even if I had known how to assert a boundary in a healthy, loving way the thought of blowing up the marriage would have never crossed my mind at the time:
Boundaries are meaningless without consequences
Originally Posted by Maturin
for many years our friends and family thought of us as "the perfect couple" and I took pride in that.
If I had a nickel for every time I read this on this forum I could retire.
Originally Posted by Maturin
The idea that we would not be married for life or that my W would lose attraction to me never crossed my mind.
That her behavior was not acceptable for anyone who wanted to be in a relationship with me and was running counter to the best interests of the family.
This is the message that has now been delivered.
The consequences of this boundary thus far have been me vacating my role of husband: we no longer socialize together and I don't provide emotional support. She is still enjoying (for now) the full benefit of my provisioning. If she does not turn around and show real remorse and do what it takes to reconcile she will only be provided with what the state says I owe her. At this moment in time I don't believe she values me or the MR enough to worry about losing it, but she is concerned with the social stigma and the kids. That is as far into her head as I care to get, and even then it's speculation. I meet with my L in two weeks.
If any good whatsoever comes of this mess it will be that I am well equipped to educate my sons and daughter on the realities of long term relationships. Yes, I am just another guy from a "perfect couple" who got cucked and embarrassed. I'll be damned if it happens to my kids.
Hey M. It sounds directionally correct for you to "up the ante" towards D as boundaries are broken. Be unyielding on that path because you deserve better. As someone said in relation to my situation, people can and do reconcile later if/when the alien releases our partners. I told my D13 that it "ain't over until a judge bangs down a gavel" and that, if W reconsiders and honors my boundaries, I'm open to resuming work on the marriage. I'm also fine moving on because I'm conident I'm doing lots of things right for myself and D13 at this stage.
It is too bad about your BILs. They are her family and often that bond trumps all others, though I have close friends who are closer to me than my step-brothers and half sister. Still, it was a betrayal of you and your trust. Ideally, they'd focus on what's best for your kids or, at worst, they'd remain neutral (don't encourage or discourage the situation).
I'm glad your expanding your social circle. One thing I'm wondering, especially given your comment about breaking down at one point, is how comfortable are you with being alone. Self-soothing is an important skill so that we don't lean too much on others for comfort. It is also a great skill to teach our kids. I hope you're investing some time to work on being comfortable on your own too.
Thanks for checking in MrP. The BIL situation is difficult and my biggest concern is that I am getting too butthurt over it. My initial feedback to them was that they were put in a terrible position and I had no hard feelings. That slowly morphed into a sense that they took sides and protected their sister. Would I have done the same? I don't know. It's for me to forgive and I'm working on it.
The larger issue is that certain friends and acquaintances knew and never said anything, one of whom I asked directly. He denied it to protect my W. Those people are easier to cut out and forget.
Valid point about being comfortable being alone. The truth is I am very ok with being alone, and a lot of my GAL is bc my default mode is to hang at home - I love to socialize but I need to take the initiative to do so.
I learned early on in this process that when the emotions well up, they need to be released. The first time I cried I was shocked at how much better I felt afterwards. Ever since then I allow myself that release.
