Learning the ropes 2

[Pattnee5]

Hi MA what a great update I am so happy to hear you are doing well. So sad about your H though and his continual spiral. I feel you helped me more than I helped you to be honest. You truly were an inspiration. Considering our BD was so close together and we seem to be walking a similar path.
So happy to read you are in a good place. It’s funny, like you when I first came here I just desperately wanted H back, wanted to fix everything cried was miserable was a mess. I never thought I would be where I am today. Today for the first time I thought “hey I am happy” and I have been for a while now. Meanwhile I look at my H and he doesn’t look happy, doesn’t act happy. He’s still wallowing in his gloomy loft with his sweatpants and bottle. It’s funny to think they did the damage and did the BD because as I was told “ I just wasn’t happy for a while”. I bet if someone asked him now if he’s happy he will say no. I reckon he’s worse
Keep being happy
And being with the kids. Family is everything.

[MA1970]

Thank you for the positive words Kind18, Sun & Pattnee. This forum is everything & makes such a difference if you have the courage to follow the advice.

Sun- I've read your thread & sorry you're still in the thick of it but sounds like you're doing all the right things. I hope good times are ahead for you.

Kind - thank you. You've got a perfect combo of harsh when it needs to be said but in the background of lots of care & encouragement. You've made a huge difference to this woman's life.

Pattnee - keep hanging on in there girl. Our paths are so similar. I reckon by the time your H starts to realise where he's at, you'll have moved even further. H came to see me today & I do still care deeply. He still pulls at my heart strings but equally I know it would be the absolute wrong thing to open the door for him. He needs to do the inner child work otherwise it's just groundhog day.

[DnJ]

Good Morning MA

What a fantastic update! You are doing so well.

what I've learned about me, the relationship worked because we were codependent.

Most wise.

I felt adored & validated, which kept me in a stuck position of putting up with coercive control, gaslighting and excessively jealous behaviour. I figured this was a sign of how wanted and loved I was. I also put up with excess drinking, lack of contribution to the house, lazy parenting. He was also dependent on me. I provided him with safety, security & the parenting he didn't get as a child. I think we both started to resent these roles but instead of going for therapy, I ate & he drank & we both avoided the elephant in the room.

I'd like a future relationship but I'd like it to be equal. I'm worthy of that & think I'm an all right catch!

Yes, you’re worthy and an all right catch.

You’ve grown plenty, and H has struggled. I’m right with you with not picking up, continuing, that “old” relationship. It would need to be better. Evolved. H (and my XW) is not there. Yet. And may never be.

I still care deeply about H & I'm not entirely ruling out reunion at some point in the future but I would need to see proper change not just words. I see no sign of this.

H’s path is still covert. His behaviour has altered. No where as outwardly or quickly as you. Of course, you are rational and embraced your path. To something, rather than from something. H still being more the opposite of that tenet.

And yes, look to actions rather than words.

[H] phoned our 16yr old D to say his guilt is terrible & proceeded to tell her how bad he felt at upsetting his AP & her kids and how he's let them down!!

It’s quite a staggering thing to witness, isn’t it? My XW told our four children after OM’s son rolled their vehicle on a joyride during his graduation, that she “almost lost a child!”. Said that directly to her own four flesh and blood children. XW was so distraught.

Reality is lost upon these lost souls.

H really does feel horrible for letting down ex AP and her kids. He is currently unable to (fully) cope with that, which therefore doesn’t allow his feelings for D and you and such to surface. I highlight “fully”, for I do believe H has made some progress, albeit glacially slow.

D is the only person speaking to him & that's tough because he makes her anxious but she's frightened that he has no one without her. I'm there to support her & we've discussed her boundaries for him, which she's trying to stick to.

I’m glad she’s open with you about Dad and his conversations. I know you are guiding her with boundaries. I’d also discuss fear with her. She need not be held hostage by her own fear. And that is really what fear does. So entangling. So ensnaring. So paralyzing.

He pulls at all our heart strings. However he is not showing any signs of behaviour change. He refuses to block ex AP stating he's a good person and she's upset. He still talks about her & cannot maintain boundaries. He is unable to tolerate being alone but sees his only answer as looking for someone to care for him.

I understand and empathize. That tug upon the ol’ heart strings. I do love XW, yet we are not friends. It’s an odd statement, until you find it.

How are doing with forgiveness? Do guide daughter as well in that endeavour.

Forgiveness and acceptance is very freeing. Letting go of fear, worry, and anxiety; letting go of vengeance, retribution, and holding a grudge; is only part. Letting go is only part of it.

Forgiveness leads to embracing/living some pretty wonderful tenets which ripple outward far beyond H.

Have a great day.

D

[Sunflyer]

This is what I've learned about me, the relationship worked because we were co dependent. I felt adored & validated, which kept me in a stuck position of putting up with coercive control, gaslighting and excessively jealous behaviour. I figured this was a sign of how wanted and loved I was. I also put up with excess drinking, lack of contribution to the house, lazy parenting. He was also dependent on me. I provided him with safety, security & the parenting he didn't get as a child. I think we both started to resent these roles but instead of going for therapy, I ate & he drank & we both avoided the elephant in the room. Until BD day that is!

I think this was an element in my M as well. She made me feel very good, loved, accepted like no other woman I'd met. Particularly in the last few years, however, she seemed to prioritize other things, family time became less, less cooking and having dinners together, etc.

Her desire was to be accepted because she was overweight. And I had no problem with her appearance and thought she was beautiful. So perhaps we leaned on each other for our "fixes" of acceptance.

She had weight loss surgery and eventually lost the weight. Then cosmetic surgery to deal with the effects of the weight loss. And this is the time frame when BD occurred. And a few months later, her AP was revealed.

One of the things I've struggled with is thoughts that once she lost the weight, she no longer felt that she needed me to accept her and could now pursue somebody "better," somebody more in her league so to speak.

I don't know if that is the case. Maybe she's just thrilled that she has proven she can attract someone else, which strikes me as not particularly healthy. She continues to chase happiness in external things, pursued in secret, rather than from within herself.

I feel the self-esteem problem she clearly had did not vanish along with the pounds.

I still care deeply about H & I'm not entirely ruling out reunion at some point in the future but I would need to see proper change not just words. I see no sign of this. He's clocked up £10,000 debt in 9 months, is drinking heavily, over burdening his 16 Yr old daughter & is only focused on his own needs at present. I hope he does change but suspect I won't be still waiting if he does and that's OK. I just hope we stay in a positive relationship and can Co parent our older children together.

I suspect I will care for a while too. We both have long histories with our spouses. It can hurt to look at them and see the path they have taken. But you are right. You couldn't live with him as he is now, even if he wants it. You won't wait for him, nor should you. I certainly won't put my life on hold for W. Too much I've left undone and life doesn't allow much time to do it.

You're an inspiration, MA. And this forum is something indeed. People come here, reveal some of their most private thoughts and experiences, prop each other up. I have never met any of them, but I feel like this is a family, scattered about the globe, bound by idealism that refuses to die in the face of powerful adversity.

[MA1970]

I'm just popping on to keep connected and hopefully provide a bit of hope for any newbies that it does get better.

Quick reminder of dates. H started affair with work colleague in Dec 22. I asked him to leave Feb 23 because he was cake eating (living at home but dating AP). It was so hard initially. I couldn't eat, sleep, concentrate. My anxious predictive thoughts were very powerful & I engaged in lots of desperate behaviours to try and entice him back. This forum guided me & highlighted the need to drop the rope, stop fighting, take an observer perspective.

We're now nearing the end of a strange year. It's been my worst year in many respects but funnily enough, also my best year. I've come out of my co dependency & worked hard on myself to increase my confidence. I performed in a local pantomime last week & loved it! I went on an extreme day trip flying to Christmas markets in Europe this week with my daughter & coping with all of it independently. I'm proud of me!

H remains in MLC craziness. I fear its a long journey & crisis misrepresents the longevity in many respects. Over the last year he has broken up & got back together with AP 10 times! Each time, he reconnects and expresses that he loves me & wants me back. This was everything to me at the beginning of the year but I find it tiring now & recognise I am worth more. In one of his episodes of trying to get back with his AP, he filed for divorce. I didn't want this at the time. I do now! I am calm, settled & very happy and content with my life. If you'd asked me could I envisage ending the year like this, I definitely couldn't have. It is completely counterintuitive to follow the advice on here but it works! It doesn't work if your expectation is to bring back your spouse. This might happen and it might not but when you let go if that battle and focus on you, life gets easier. I have no doubt my H would love to return to our family home but too much has passed for me.

Wishing everyone a very merry Christmas and a huge thank you to everyone on this forum in particular DnJ, Kind & Pattnee & Rock. You have all played a really important part of my learning what to do and what not to do & I feel great 😊

[DnJ]

Good Morning MA

What a wonderful update. Well done!

The extreme day trip. Flying off for a shopping adventure with daughter (if I understand it correctly) sounds fantastic!

I agree with the misrepresentation of “crisis”. MLC is popular comedic trope in many RomCom type Hollywood endeavours. Pretty much guaranteed none of the writers have actually witnessed a true midlife crisis.

And then there is emotional turmoil, life transitions, loss, grief, depression, and so on; sometimes getting labelled “crisis” as well. Of course, “crisis” is somewhat of a spectrum, so that’s understandable. Yet, a full blown MLC is truly a horrible thing.

The longevity, damage, complete alien-ness of a MLC is remarkable, incredulous. I think anyone, before having any first hand experience with such, has the prejudice and comedic default that society has programmed us with. I know I had. To me, MLC just meant some guy buys a nice red sports car. Ha, not even close. It’s so consuming and enveloping. And a crisis will take as long as it takes.

A MLCer loses the plot so badly. Just look at your H - break up and make up, 10 times! Truly staggering. And yet so script-like.

It is completely counterintuitive to follow the advice on here but it works!

Absolutely! At first, it all sounds so wrong.

I am proud of you MA. You have walked a most positive path, and continue to do so.


To you and your’s, Merry Christmas and all the best in the new year.

D

[Sunflyer]

H remains in MLC craziness. I fear its a long journey & crisis misrepresents the longevity in many respects. Over the last year he has broken up & got back together with AP 10 times! Each time, he reconnects and expresses that he loves me & wants me back. This was everything to me at the beginning of the year but I find it tiring now & recognise I am worth more. In one of his episodes of trying to get back with his AP, he filed for divorce. I didn't want this at the time. I do now!

I'm in the same position. If someone had told me seven months ago, "You may not want her back," I would have thought they were crazy. (Actually, I did hear that but didn't believe it).

Right now, I'm pretty much done. She's had two APs (that I know about, including the current one), and one of those was our son's coach. She claims she's wanted out of the marriage for years despite saying everything to the contrary.

Her current AP was likewise dumped by a cheating wife, but she sympathizes with him because, according to her, he did nothing wrong. Her cheating on me is, however, okay because she says I have not treated her up to snuff. And her AP is currently living with his parents, presumably because his post-separation/divorce finances aren't so hot. She lives in a mortgage-free home, but that wouldn't be any kind of enticement, now would it?

Yeah, no. I am worth way more than this lousy treatment.

Good for you, MA.

[MA1970]

Thank you DnJ & Sunflyer. I'm so glad you're coming out of the other side Sun. I still get floored every now & then by the odd trigger that activates my negative thoughts but on the whole I'm managing to remind myself it's just another stage of crazy & it will pass....& it always does!

DnJ - you have been such a huge part of my journey. I honestly can't thank you enough. You pitch all your comments with kindness and compassion & it's very much appreciated.

Happy Christmas 🎄 x

[Pattnee5]

What an amazing update MA. H sounds like a very troubled soul. Breaking up with AP 10 times in 12 months? 😵‍💫 wow that’s one rock solid relationship right there haha. How ever exciting for you with your trip to Europe and everything you are doing. Truly amazing. I think that’s what a lot of people don’t realise is DB is a lot more about you. A lot of marriages and relationships both parties end up kind of enmeshed co-dependant and lose their sense of self. So if there’s one think you learn it’s to find your individuality again. For both parties even the MLC. Honestly it would be the only real way for any future relationship with them to work
Merry Christmas Ma and here’s to 2024 being better and brighter

[MA1970]

Hi all, thought I'd jump on here to give a quick update. It's good to see some familiar names doing so well & following the amazing advice on here.

This week marked a year from when H admitted he was having an affair & a further 2 weeks before I asked him to leave. We'd been together 27 years and he had always been faithful previously. I'd joined here a few weeks before BD when I had some suspicions but really didn't want to admit it. I feel blessed that I found this community & had enough faith to follow direction albeit not perfectly & with a great deal of suffering along the way. I remember lots of comments about dropping the rope & I just couldn't understand how that was possible, it felt like pretending & it didn't really work! It was only really when I started to focus on me that I got glimpses of what it felt like to let go of my side of the battle. He continued throughout to throw snippets at me that I would grab hold of & read too much into. The lovely vets on here would warn me & I eventually started to really listen. It took probably 4 months from BD before I stopped my doormat & spying behaviours. Things got a little easier after that.

One of the biggest battles was with my own mind. I struggled to stay present & my mind kept wandering to the future. As soon as it did this, I was in fear mode. When in this state, all I could notice was the stuff that made me upset & that rope got tighter! I got better at using the virtual STOP sign & being able to notice when my mind was wandering unhelpfully to past or future. At this time, I would either chat to a friend /mum or go for a walk. H has been crazy throughout, proper mid life distress and angst. He struggled (& continues to struggle) with the pain he caused and he managed this by retreating back to his new world (alcohol, AP, avoiding his kids). We would have glimpses of the old H where he was broken hearted at what he had done & begging for forgiveness but then he would retreat back again.

So, where are we now, a year later? Well, the divorce is going ahead. I should get the conditional through in the next few weeks and the absolute is 6 weeks and 1 day later. I'm buying him out of our house & he's accepted a fair offer. The AP & him have been over since August but had some continued contact till around end Nov. He has been keen to return back home & is very apologetic. He's a broken man & I feel for him. I still care deeply about his welfare but equally, I don't want to be his wife anymore. I've used the past year to work on me. I've dropped 91lbs & am feeling far more confident in myself. The weight loss is welcomed but it happened quickly due to the trauma and I did lose a fair bit of hair as well. Fortunately, I'm blessed with a good head of hair and its growing back nicely! I've been approached a few times by different men, which has been flattering and boosted my ego a bit but I'm not quite ready to enter into another relationship just yet. I figure I'll revisit that when I'm divorced. I'm on speaking terms with STBXH & we've met, discussed what happened and I've shared a few truth bombs. I've not shared anywhere near the amount of hurt he has caused because I don't think he could take it. He's so ashamed at what he's done.

It's a funny thing because a year ago, all I wanted was for him to be as he is now. I actually think I would prefer him to still be with AP because I'd know he was OK. I hate to see him suffering but equally, I've learned that our relationship wasn't the perfect relationship I thought it was. We were completely codependent. I mothered him, he didn't take on any responsibility & was dependent on me for most things. On my part, I felt adored (until I wasn't!) & was willing to put up with a banal existence because I felt safe & secure (meanwhile resentment was breeding on both sides). Its a complex thing these affairs and MLC. Once you step back and detach/drop the rope, you can see the full context of the situation. I'm lucky, I've got the most amazing friends & family that have supported me & really backed up what the good folk on here were saying, which made it easier to do. He is less lucky, he doesn't have the same support network as me. His family aren't interested (part of the trigger for MLC) & he has very few friends. We met the other week & he was crying saying he feels he has nothing to show for the past 27 years and that he's stepped back in time (he's living in a studio flat, unfurnished, sleeping on a mattress). When we met, his circumstances were similar. I was the wage earner & we lived a good life, nice house, nice holidays etc. I think this was also a trigger for his MLC.

I can't say it strongly enough for any newbies, please focus on you. What will be, will be. My STBXH did come round but fortunately left it long enough for me to work on myself and see that he wasn't what I wanted. He's not done the work I have, so I have no doubt that he will flit in and out of crisis for some time to come. This makes me sad as I would love to see him settled and happy but I think this will take quite a while longer for him.

Apologies for the long post. I don't know whether people will find it helpful or not. I know I struggled to hear stories where people weren't getting back together when I first came on here. Have faith in the process, this forum is a wonderful place & I really wouldn't be in the positive place I am without it. Thank you vets! 😊