The last few days went relatively well. Several of my in-laws were sick, so D13, W, and I ended up alone at home for Christmas Eve. We didn't do mass because D13 also felt sick. I ran out to pull together an alternate menu that was delicious. We played a few games, watched some Christmas movies, and called it a night.
The next moring. I finished wrapping gifts for D13 and from D13 to W. D13 seemed to like all of her gifts. Once the dust settled, she and her friends were on FaceTime, showing off their gifts and wishing each other Merry Christmas.
D13 later asked W if W was coming to my family's house on Christmas Day. I'd previously told her she was welcome and it was also fine if she had other plans. W opted to join us. D13 was happy. I felt as I have when I've invited a friend to join my family when their plans fell through or they'd otherwise be alone (which W would've done due to much of her family being sick). I lost a friend to suicide on a holiday many years ago whose loneliness got the better of him. That experience left me with a "thing" about people I know being alone on a major holiday.
I observed a few things. Everyone had a good time. W also commented that next year we should leave our dog at home so that W will worry less about it snatching food (which it didn't). Given discussions about D, I didn't respond since my understanding we won't be together at that point. W made a similar, future-oriented comment later (about food or drink to bring next year) in the evening that I can't fully recall. To me, both felt like temperature checks. Neither of them required a reply from me so, in the spirit of DBing, I just noted that she made them without assigning further value to them.
This morning, D13 and W talked about how much they enjoyed yesterday. We had five family dogs running around, ate well, drank, laughed, and stayed in the moment. I slept like a rock. Splurged on some more expensive coffee, and started the time-honored tradition of assembling some of D13s gifts. I also threw on "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly" which is a tradition my dad and I started long ago. I'm out the door to attend a birthday party solo tonight. I'm also going out with my oldest friends in a few days as part of another tradition.
DnJ, you'll hopefully be proud to know that I'm following your sage advice and making myself comfortable in Limboland!
W also commented that next year we should leave our dog at home so that W will worry less about it snatching food (which it didn't). Given discussions about D, I didn't respond since my understanding we won't be together at that point. W made a similar, future-oriented comment later (about food or drink to bring next year) in the evening that I can't fully recall. To me, both felt like temperature checks. Neither of them required a reply from me so, in the spirit of DBing, I just noted that she made them without assigning further value to them.
My W does the same thing, MrP. She will make comments about getting a dog someday, remodeling the house, or getting a new mattress. I like to validate the statement and nothing else ("A dog is great for families" or "I can see what you mean, this mattress is old"). Looks like you handled it well.
Originally Posted by MrP
I also threw on "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly" which is a tradition my dad and I started long ago.
An all-time classic! I actually picture Clint Eastwood's character in this film as part of a mental exercise I do to stay grounded. Nothing rattles Blondie.
Originally Posted by MrP
DnJ, you'll hopefully be proud to know that I'm following your sage advice and making myself comfortable in Limboland!
You are inspiring to readers like me who are still learning what Limboland is all about.
Thanks, M. It is tough to shed or compartmentalize the emotions that this experience can present. DnJ often reminds people about the gift of time. I've not been as present in so many moments of my day as I should be. It has been helpful to stop and enjoy a good cup of coffee, a moment of near-complete quiet, or get lost in a 2-3-hour workout.
W pulled me aside to say we need to talk about what we're doing. The D papers she filed expire soon and if we're not going to do anything then she'll have wasted some money. She lobbed the idea of staying together at least through D13's time in high school to see how things go. Also, she noted that my mom was very kind to her on Christmas Day (recall they've had some struggles).
I said, "Hmm...say more about what that looks like to you". She said that she wasn't happy with potential housing options if we D, is not interested in jumping back into the dating pool, and wondered what the impact of this arrangement would be on D13.
My initial reaction: it felt like more temp checking with a bit of cake sampling. I thanked her for sharing. After pausing to show I'd listened, I said "I'm not certain I'd be satisfied with that arrangement. I need to think more about what is best for me and D13".
There would have to be meaningful, positive progress for me to stay. For example, W needs to make headway on resolving her prior traumas (for example, resume seeing a good IC, increase her meds, or some similar, concrete short-term results). Fix herself first and then see if we can move to steadily piecing.
I ended the conversation by saying "I need to hit the restroom" which, if not over-used, can be a great way to exit these conversations first. I didn't commit to a specific date for a follow-up discussion. As advised in previous responses to my posts, I can go down this road with her. I don't have to help pave it.
By comparison, I feel optimistic about my potential life post-D. I wonder if it may be better for me long-term. In my head, I hear our last MC telling me that W will have a tough time overcoming her past traumas such that our relationship would be stuck otherwise. D13 may also be better off seeing me do well both independently and, down the line, in a healthier relationship.
Before whatever alien abducted W, (MLC, WAS, mental health, menopause, etc.), we had a strong relationship. Once D13 came along, it seemed to up the ante in terms of W's anxiety to a point where she is more easily overwhelmed by life stuff. Part of being a good H means standing by a W through (sickness and health, til death do us part), right? I also recall MWD suggesting kids are one, important (not the primary) reason couples should work to stay happy and together. This site is about DBing after all.
Since this conversation is fresh, I'm going to kick it around in my head for a day or two. Thoughts appreciated, as always. Be well!
I was reading along, catching up after a few busy days here with family and kids. I smiled at your acceptance and embracing of things and uncertainty.
Originally Posted by MrP
DnJ, you'll hopefully be proud to know that I'm following your sage advice and making myself comfortable in Limboland!
Got to admit, I’m touched.
I was reading along and did a long pause here. Yes, I am proud of you. Sincerely, you are doing very well. Good living and good advice to fellow posters/travellers.
Originally Posted by MrP
W pulled me aside to say we need to talk about what we're doing. The D papers she filed expire soon and if we're not going to do anything then she'll have wasted some money. She lobbed the idea of staying together at least through D13's time in high school to see how things go. Also, she noted that my mom was very kind to her on Christmas Day (recall they've had some struggles).
Interesting.
I believe awakening starts with a whisper of doubt.
You replied well, and nicely did not jump upon her plan, nor committed to anything.
Thanking her for sharing was excellent.
If you decide to follow up, I’d add something along the lines of “I am willing to explore you and I. To see if we still have any spark or chemistry. To see if we get along. I’m different. I’ve changed and grown; you might not like who I’ve become.”
Also, it’s Christmas. This time of year stirs emotions. Lots of folks feel regrets and such, and those feelings flit as quick as the decorations are boxed away.
Still, emotions do come from somewhere. Inside W there is something going on. Will she’ll bury it or face it.
Originally Posted by MrP
Part of being a good H means standing by a W through (sickness and health, til death do us part), right? I also recall MWD suggesting kids are one, important (not the primary) reason couples should work to stay happy and together. This site is about DBing after all.
Right you are.
W obviously has some feelings of loss. This is good. Let those feelings help the cause.
Yes, kids are important. So is respect and loyalty and faithfulness.
In my opinion, most marriages fail, as do reconciliations, because of love. Let me explain a bit.
Getting married because you love them is not a good thing. You already have the love, so why get married?
Marrying for love is no better than marrying for money, or power, or fame, etc. As love waxes and wanes so does the “reason” to be married.
Instead, people should marry because they respect the other person. They respect and value that other person’s beliefs, viewpoints, opinions, choices, and so on. Of course they love them. Yet realize, love is the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. Respect is the cake and substance of a relationship.
Something to consider while in Limboland.
Respect is still possible even while indifferent. A better chance at a successful reconciliation comes from knowing, actually believing, in respect towards the other person. Consistent and demonstrated positive behaviour fosters respect. Love will come.
It takes time and effort to regain respect and trust. Oh both sides. To both find it, and to demonstrate it. When gauging probabilities look to those signs, rather than signs of love and feelings. IMHO.
Originally Posted by MrP
DnJ often reminds people about the gift of time.
You have the gift of time here. Use it well.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Hi all. Hope everyone is doing as well as possible.
As a quick recap, the D paperwork W had prepped was set to expire next week if I wasn't served. I knew that could lead to 1) being served 2) not being served and 3) not being served with the potential to be served further down the road. W asked to talk and let tearfully let me know that she chose to move forward with the D. I said I understood and repeated something one of the DB counselors taught me ~5 years ago "To me, divorce isn't the solution to our problems. However, I love and respect you enough to let go".
Overall, I feel relief. I'm still at peace with either path (D or not D with my boundaries and requirements being actively addressed. I've done too much work to settle for less).
I know that being served isn't the end and there is a lot of time before a judge bangs a gavel down and declares the marriage officially done. I've got plans tomorrow with friends from high school. I'm watching the NCAA football championship with other friends.
Most of my property is pre-marital so, thanks to my L, I have a good sense of how those chips will fall if the D becomes final. In some ways, being better prepared for a D makes the other half of DBing easier for me. I continue to focus on me and D13, remain aloof and positive when around W, and am glad for the support of this community. I can see W is struggling and sad. While I wish I could say and do more, I'm even more fired now than I was a day ago. I can offer the support I'd offer a friend if they ask. Otherwise, W is getting lots more time and space.
As always, thanks, each of you, for being along (virtually) for the ride. It helps!
MrP - well done on handling a tough situation. I commend you on staying centered and grounded, your example shows me and other newbies what is possible when faced with non-ideal outcomes.
Enjoy the weekend and the GAL time you've scheduled for yourself.
MrP - well done on handling a tough situation. I commend you on staying centered and grounded, your example shows me and other newbies what is possible when faced with non-ideal outcomes.
Enjoy the weekend and the GAL time you've scheduled for yourself.
Thanks, M. You're too kind! I certainly didn't get to this point overnight. The 1st DB was a variation of similar experiences to what many others here describe. I made tons of mistakes. I make fewer mistakes now. I resisted the techniques that others discussed and was too...scared perhaps...to actively post on this board. I felt like this time I needed to give back to this community that has been so helpful. It makes me happy to hear I'm helping others in any way I can.
And I haven't even bought my usual 1-2 Christmas presents for myself yet so I've got to find some time to pick those up this weekend too. With gratitude, P
You are walking an excellent path. Regarding D, continue to only respond to W, and leave her to the heavy lifting.
Originally Posted by MrP
Most of my property is pre-marital so, thanks to my L, I have a good sense of how those chips will fall if the D becomes final.
Speaking with a lawyer and knowing your rights and likely outcome, as well as best and worse case scenarios, is most wise.
Originally Posted by MrP
In some ways, being better prepared for a D makes the other half of DBing easier for me.
Absolutely. Knowing the business side of this allows one put more of their efforts into their emotional healing path.
Originally Posted by MrP
I continue to focus on me and D13, remain aloof and positive when around W, and am glad for the support of this community. I can see W is struggling and sad. While I wish I could say and do more, I'm even more fired now than I was a day ago.
“I'm even more fired now than I was a day ago.” That is a good outlook. Now make hay. Time and space. Let her feel her choices.
Originally Posted by MrP
I can offer the support I'd offer a friend if they ask. Otherwise, W is getting lots more time and space.
I’d likely would not provide the same support as I would a friend. After all, are you and her, friends?
Originally Posted by MrP
And I haven't even bought my usual 1-2 Christmas presents for myself yet so I've got to find some time to pick those up this weekend too.
Now you can get those presents on sale.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Hi DnJ. Thanks for weighing in and for the helpful overview of how to use various commands on this site.
Originally Posted by DnJ
I'd likely would not provide the same support as I would a friend. After all, are you and her, friends?
Fair question. I wrestle with this a bit. Because of D13, I hesitate to think of W as just an acquaintance or someone with whom I have a business relationship. If we D, I want to maintain at least a productive relationship with W for D13's sake. One thing I remember from growing up with divorced parents is that my dad remained friendly and positive when dealing with my mother, no matter what. It wasn't reciprocated, but he did it anyway. Still does today. I realize W and I needn't be friends if we D to have a productive relationship.
When I think of friends that may be on the lower-effort side of my overall spectrum of friends, if one of them were to call me and ask for help, I'd at least try to be there to provide some fundamental support. I'd not do the same for people I'd consider acquaintances like a former co-worker with whom I lack a social relationship. Right now, W feels like something in-between to me.
At the same time, I realize that offering too much support to an XW can enable cake-eating. I expect one has to find a balance between demonstrating to one's child that you care about what matters to the child and doing things consistent with your values in terms of helping others, while also maintaining healthy boundaries with an ex-. I guess this is going to be a work in progress for me to explore. Again, I appreciate you raising it.
