Be sure to enforce your boundaries with optimism and acceptance, and not out of anger or hopeless despondency. Keep in focus that you are not rejecting HER, but rather her actions and choices. There could be a place for her in your life and bed if she chose differently.
If she reacts angrily or sadly, be sure to validate her and REALLY hear her -- I hear you Wife that this is not easy. I'm sorry you feel that way. Acknowledge and accept criticisms, hear her POV, and implement your self-work, 180s and GAL accordingly.
But, ultimately, I won't abide THIS for me and the kids anymore. I deserve better, they deserve better, and you also deserve better. I hoped that we could get to a better place. But I see that you are still choosing not to act like my wife. It's more of the same. And with me getting out more, meeting people, and thinking about things, I see that things will be better for me than they are like this.
You are leading, opening a door to someplace new. She may follow or not.
You will be ok either way, because you will be living your life true to yourself and values.
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
Great advice, thank you Bust. During the past few years I've found various resources to help me understand what's gone on in my MR and how to respond. One of the aspects of the DR process on the forums here that resonates with me is the focus on remaining positive, being optimistic, and not letting anger play a part in interactions with W. Easier said than done, I know. I have seen firsthand how counterproductive a sulky, morose, and butt hurt attitude is to making progress in my life. The biggest challenge I face right now is remaining positive even when I feel otherwise. As Sandi puts in rule 30: "Do not openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy."
I'm happy with the way the weekend went. I was feeling pretty down yesterday while W was out w the kids, but when they got home I focused completely on them and it lifted my mood. Whatever plays out here between W and I, I'm determined to continue to give my kids 100% as a father.
I've remained cheerful and optimistic in all interactions w W and it makes me feel much better about myself. No more sullen moods or sulking - in fact she is now the one who is quiet and withdrawn.
Lately the 30-60 minutes between getting in bed and falling asleep has become a time that I reflect on my MR and what happened. I find myself acknowledging that the MR hasn't been close for many years, and that it's obvious since the PA my W was creating a pocket of space between us. While I was taking steps to understand and improve myself for the last 2-3 years, she was still in full WW mode.
It makes me feel as though I've wasted 3 years of my life by having all the constraints of a marriage but none of the benefits of a relationship. And when I consider that she was out enjoying a PA the spiral starts. This thinking can lead down a negative and unproductive path so I try to circumvent that. While she did claim she didn't even enjoy the PA, I'm not sure I believe her (or that it matters).
I know patience is part of the DB approach, but after three years of a lackluster SL I sometimes want to just pull the chute and get the pain over with. Instead I will take it one day at a time, get through the holidays, and continue preparing for what's next.
I've just read and watched thousands of articles, message boards, podcasts, videos, etc, and the story is nearly always the same. We've seen it here for years, right down to the same exact talking points.
Some days it's helpful to know that my situation is far from unique. I've been consuming similar content for ~2 years now and it has helped me understand the dynamic. It's also forced me to accept that I can only control me and my W may only "come around" if SHE fully realizes the damage she has done to herself and the family and has a desire to change. I have zero expectations.
Today is a more difficult day after a nice string of optimistic ones. Living together while having no real relationship has been a struggle and I am always more centered when we're physically apart. I find that some of my optimism lately has been around discovering the DB process and becoming hopeful that this is the "cure" to our problems, which I know rationally is not true. The DB process can be used to address MY problems, not the marital ones.
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Yes. But you aren't ready to divorce yet so thats why you tolerate it.
So don't worry about it bc you aren't ready to make a change.
I will challenge this. I am ready to divorce, though not excited about it. Discovering the A and the years of deception pushed me to the point where I am willing to end the MR. I've asked her to move out but she refuses, and my attorney has advised me to stay in the home as well. Otherwise I'd be gone by now. So in the meantime I'm here, she's here, and I'm focused on the 180 and GAL. The main change in the last two weeks is that instead of not speaking to one another, I am cheerful, fun, and optimistic.
Emotionally detaching and seeing her for what she is has been very helpful as well. As a friend put it to me recently: "Let's say you're single a year from now. Would you consider dating a woman like your W?" The answer is no: if I met an attractive, single mother of 3 who had been out until 2am the night before I wouldn't give her the time of day.
I guess I assumed you were trying to bust the divorce and thar you haven't started the legal process.
If I have that wrong let me know.
I don't think you're a fool if I'm right. Just saying sometimes it's hard to accept these painful moments.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I'm happy with the way the weekend went. I was feeling pretty down yesterday while W was out w the kids, but when they got home I focused completely on them and it lifted my mood. Whatever plays out here between W and I, I'm determined to continue to give my kids 100% as a father.
That sounds great, Maturin. You can really further develop your special relationships with them during this time. So many adventures, mutual discoveries, games, talking, and bonding time.
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I've remained cheerful and optimistic in all interactions w W and it makes me feel much better about myself. No more sullen moods or sulking - in fact she is now the one who is quiet and withdrawn.
Keep it up!
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It makes me feel as though I've wasted 3 years of my life by having all the constraints of a marriage but none of the benefits of a relationship. And when I consider that she was out enjoying a PA the spiral starts. This thinking can lead down a negative and unproductive path so I try to circumvent that. While she did claim she didn't even enjoy the PA, I'm not sure I believe her (or that it matters).
I hear that about a feeling of lost time. But we can't control the past, right? So don't go there. Let it go as fast as it enters your mind.
A key to DB'ing is to live in in the present. Ruminating in the past can lead you down dark paths. Living in the future can trap you in fantasy (of how you'd idealize things to be if you just wait or could say just the right thing) or fear (of what bad things may happen if you act or do not act).
So, keep your mind out of the past (other than briefly learning where you need to do self-work or make amends). And also do not think in the the future (other than to set plans and goals).
Live your plans in the present, one day at a time.
One comment I have on ovrrnbw's msg -- I do not personally think that wanting to bust the divorce and starting the legal process are always incompatible with one another. When your boundaries ("I will not be with someone who is actively cheating on me") are crossed despite communication and incremental enforcements, then the progressive enforcement of initiating divorce can be appropriate. Otherwise, you violate your own boundary.
It does not mean that you stop divorce busting or that divorce is the foregone conclusion. The WAW spouse can choose to stop the affair at any time.
And, if a LBS had tolerated a PA sullenly for 2-3 years, and then suddenly and decisively, but optimistically, acts otherwise ("there's a great world out there for me that I deserve, I can do this, and I'm ok with this"), it can be the ultimate 180 of value.
But, it must be authentic -- because your boundary is being crossed. Not as a bluff or ploy.
Last edited by bustorama; 12/05/2303:53 AM.
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
One comment I have on ovrrnbw's msg -- I do not personally think that wanting to bust the divorce and starting the legal process are always incompatible with one another. When your boundaries ("I will not be with someone who is actively cheating on me") are crossed despite communication and incremental enforcements, then the progressive enforcement of initiating divorce can be appropriate. Otherwise, you violate your own boundary.
It does not mean that you stop divorce busting or that divorce is the foregone conclusion. The WAW spouse can choose to stop the affair at any time.
And, if a LBS had tolerated a PA sullenly for 2-3 years, and then suddenly and decisively, but optimistically, acts otherwise ("there's a great world out there for me that I deserve, I can do this, and I'm ok with this"), it can be the ultimate 180 of value.
But, it must be authentic -- because your boundary is being crossed. Not as a bluff or ploy.
Just to clarify, my W is not in an active affair to my knowledge. She confessed in September to a brief PA that happened 3 years ago (she claims two encounters) but has demonstrated WW behaviors for the last 2-3 years. Going out late, being disrespectful, etc. This is actually one of the challenges I'm having when it comes to the DB process: much of what sandi describes in her WW posts applies to my sitch except that there is no OM in the picture. I'm choosing to apply her general approach because OM or not, an affair is a boundary for me. Therefore I am detaching, GAL, doing 180s, etc. I'm not sure how much it matters whether there is an OM or not, because now that I know the PA happened and she is capable of/willing to lie about it I feel the damage has been done.
I know from conversation with W's family that she does not want D, and she has told me the same (when drunk). But she is a cake eater: she doesn't want D because she wants to continue on with our lifestyle and her own WW behavior in my view.
So there is no OM and wife does not want D. However I am choosing the sandi/DB approach because the MR itself is unhealthy and W is deeply wayward. Can anyone weigh in or point me to another user who may have been in a similar sitch?
And thanks for all the comments, I can't tell you how useful the forum has been in the short time since I've found it.
Believe nothing she says. And only half of what she does.
Sorry, but in my experience what they admit too is a fraction of what they are guilty of. Cheaters are liars. If she admitted to 2 encounters 3 years ago, more than likely it's more encounters than 2 and more recently than 3 years ago. Most adulterers do not stop until they get caught.
As far as not wanting D, then why are you here? I think deep down you know she is willing to go that far to get what she wants. If you start insisting on changes she'll throw out the D threat faster than you can say "once a cheater always a cheater".
Her words are meaningless. Whether to you or others. What she tells them is what she thinks they need to hear in that moment.
Further, you admit she's a cake eater. She is looking for a Plan A. She's willing to ride it out until that plan becomes clear. We have a saying around here, "a monkey doesn't jump from the branch it's on until it finds another branch that can support it." That's the way WWs are. They are WAWs just waiting for the right path.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
That is good news that there is no current OM in the picture so far as you know.
All the GAL, 180, sandi/DB approach is strong.
Few thoughts:
1. When she disclosed her PA or now when she is currently drunk and acting WW, has she shared anything with you about why she did these things, or what she felt she has been missing from you or the M. I love you but I'm not into you? Or anger and resentments?
What are her love languages? Did you meet them? Does she want you to meet them now?
What are ways you have not met them or hurt her in the past?
Her waywardness is her seeking her own happiness (albeit in a selfish way). Spend a lot of time on thinking on this. It is key for you to understand her motives for being wayward so that you can 180 on target and better meet her emotional needs if you can draw her to be less wayward.
Have you read books re: Love languages? Or books that guide acts of love like The Love Dare?
2. "The damage has been done" - That broken trust, the feelings of betrayal. It seems it never can be undone. Trust, like love, is an active behavior. We choose to trust or love (or not) ever day, even if it does not feel like we are choosing. The feelings of not trusting someone, not loving them, and resenting them because of how they betrayed us can seem impossible to act through. But, we can act to trust and love despite and through our feelings (look up Acceptance-Commitment Therapy [ACT] if it seems counterintuitive). Every day.
Ultimately, the only way to heal a relationship is to act lovingly and with trust, despite those feelings. Because otherwise the relationship is irrevocably broken. Waiting won't heal it the way we need it to be healed.
It's easier to do that when our partners show remorse and behavior change. Because why should we trust and not resent more of the same waywardness? How can they keep acting this wayward when they hurt us and violated our marriage?
What would it take for you to trust her again? For you to be vulnerable to her again? For you to act lovingly towards her, meet her needs, and date her, despite feelings of resentment or hurt? What can you change in yourself to get there?
What change do you need for her to make? Are there boundaries of yours she is violating in not changing? Have you communicated them and, if violated, enforced them?
3. I can tell you someone who was in a similar sitch as you -- my spouse. I had betrayed her with an EA. And I had stopped it and disclosed it to her, but I was still acting addictively, waywardly, and selfishly, indulging my feelings and needs for years. Until she communicated and enforced her boundary on me by moving out (I don't recommend you move out, but if she is violating boundaries of yours, enforcements of some kind to stop the cake eating and violations are needed).
Does she sleep in the marital bed when she comes home from partying all night? Is she spending share marital resources on her outings? Is there anything you do for her that enables this lifestyle for her or rescues her from the consequences of her actions?
Wherever there is potential addiction (your WAS' drinking, or her social validation seeking with party people), any boundaries you have must be firm. It is important that you do not excuse or ignore her addictive behaviors that cross your boundaries. Mine was video game playing (which led to my EA).
Are you ok with being in a relationship with a spouse who is not controlling her alcohol drinking and partying behavior at the expense of your MR and your own feelings and sense of value? Do you have a boundary re: having a spouse that engages in addictive behaviors that has damaged and continues to damage your MR?
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
