Garden variety manipulation. Very straight forward. Women know what makes men tick, and they will happily use it to their advantage.
definitely something Im learning here with dealing with this. She gets what she wants from me because she plays off the emotions but then turns around and says she isnt changing her mind.
Originally Posted by Kind18
It’s very unlikely that 5 years down the road she says “This was a big mistake.” Never pin your hopes on that. You need to work out how to be okay with that never happening.
People who break marriages will have a narrative. They will most likely double down and strengthen it, not take responsibility for their actions.
yea Im not banking on her saying it was a mistake. She is pretty stubborn. Talking with the IC last night. He said she may realize it was or is but being strong willed may keep her from taking any action on it. So have to plan on her not being around anymore. And that was HER decision. Have to keep reminding myself of that in a sense because I feel like it helps me with pulling back. Wish her nothing but the best at this point. I've laid it all out there on talking, feelings and emotions. She still has them. She just doesnt want to do anything to change them or her decision. Never over till the papers are signed. Not holding my breath on anything changing now, then or even in the future. Just need to shift gears and focus on becoming a better me.
Originally Posted by Kind18
She has said she might struggle because she’s checking her backup plan. She is fishing for you to say “I’ll always be there for you if life gets hard.”
yea not sure on her thought process here. Financially she will be okay. She can pay rent and utilities and stuff. She has a good support system for her (which Im glad she does). She is walking away with a nice chunk of money (about 80k cash). So I dont feel bad for her in that sense. She will be fine. She will realize that when she gets on her own. She was independent when I met her and she will be fine doing that again. Shift focus to me and where I want to be instead of hoping (falsely) that she may change her mind or come back. lol
Originally Posted by Kind18
Best response “You sound worried about the future. I know I’m going to be great no matter what 😎”
trying to not push buttons too much. She can still change her mind on alimony up until we sign our papers in January. Once that happens then its done. She actually mentioned something about it yesterday, that she should get more alimony to help herself but she said she wont because she doesnt want to drag this out. Im not holding my breath at this point. I will fight her on it if it comes down to it and drag this out if need be if she gets that way. So far we are not and being civil. but that is only so far. house is under contract now and closing at the end of November and moving out, she is moving out earlier though she said (and borrowing money from our tax (she is a self employed realtor) accounts to pay for things until we close). She said she will make it up later after closing. She will be gone in a few weeks max and dont see her staying around the house much until then. She just has to find a place. I do as well. Still deciding on how taxes will go here as well. Lawyer said it may be better to file jointly. Have to run numbers on it to see. Just want her out at this point so I can move along easier.
Originally Posted by Kind18
Try a different IC. It’s very common to need to try a few before you find one that clicks. Rome wasn’t built in a day, but then you should start to see some significant progress pretty quickly.
I wonder about this. I have seen 3 that I went through. Found once I like. Well oddly enough he is on his 2nd marriage and even on that he is on a separation from his current wife. Dunno what to think of that. Not really a good track record haha. But I do like the dialect and how the conversations flow. Well got dropped on me last night that he is now taking a new job in Japan in 3 weeks. So having to find a new IC. He is suggesting a female at his office that is pretty good according to him. I may need to find another one depending on how this goes. Just hate starting over on another IC when you build with one.
Read this over and over. Let it sink in. One of the most important things you'll hear.
Most of us play these kinds of scenarios out in our head at one time or another.
It is highly unlikely she will admit error. As Kind says, she has her story and she is going to stick to it, even if she ends up riding the highway to hell (apologies to AC/DC).
Digging the AC/DC pun here! haha. Kind of true though.
Was talking with the IC and just telling him I have a hard time breaking the logical and emotional side of it. Logically she would be better off to stay and try to make this work. But she is emotionally thinking and reacting to pent up feelings that she isnt dealing with and running from essentially. I still care for her and a part of me always will. I feel like there is a timeline with me though. I will still be in love with her probably when we sign out papers. and probably afterwards as well. I will heal though and when I do, I dont forsee me taking her back. maybe I do, maybe I dont. Just how I feel right now. If I do though it will def be different and some boundaries created and rules of engagement. One thing that will be a deal breaker for me though is if she sleeps with OM. If that happens then Im out. Been cheated on in my R before her. I know we wont be together but I feel like if there is any chance of reconcile then that cant happen! Shall see how this goes.
Shifting mindset though as much as I can to getting this house closed up and packed up, figuring out where Im going to live and my 25D. And starting a new job in 2 weeks. And still doing some GAL. Lots going on. BUt the more she is away from me the better I feel about being able to detach and pull back some. Hard to do in this house with the memories and her being around at times. She is staying the night at her friends starting last night because she said her stomach is in knots from all of this and she doesnt want to sleep on the couch anymore in the basement. All her decisions and how she is letting this play out. I cant talk my way back in. Have tried and I get cracks in the wall but not enough to get her to change her mind. I feel like she will have to go on her own and me as well and both become better people. And if it works out then so be it. If it doesnt then so be it. Kind of admire her being so strong willed and stubborn on things haha.
One thing that will be a deal breaker for me though is if she sleeps with OM. If that happens then Im out. Been cheated on in my R before her. I know we wont be together but I feel like if there is any chance of reconcile then that cant happen! Shall see how this goes.
Does this include after D? If so, there is zero chance she doesn't sleep with another man. Probably 5% chance she's not sleeping with someone now.
Originally Posted by dleague
She is staying the night at her friends starting last night because she said her stomach is in knots from all of this and she doesnt want to sleep on the couch anymore in the basement.
Logically she would be better off to stay and try to make this work. But she is emotionally thinking and reacting to pent up feelings that she isnt dealing with and running from essentially. I still care for her and a part of me always will. I feel like there is a timeline with me though. I will still be in love with her probably when we sign out papers. and probably afterwards as well. I will heal though and when I do, I dont forsee me taking her back. maybe I do, maybe I dont. Just how I feel right now. If I do though it will def be different and some boundaries created and rules of engagement. One thing that will be a deal breaker for me though is if she sleeps with OM. If that happens then Im out. Been cheated on in my R before her. I know we wont be together but I feel like if there is any chance of reconcile then that cant happen! Shall see how this goes.
Of course, but logic left on the bus long ago.
My W has OM. I have not confronted her with it, but she made it ridiculously easy to find the evidence. Perhaps, subconsciously, she wants me to know, because that will make it easier to walk away from her. I am certain that she is aware that I've figured it out.
I've always said that infidelity was a deal breaker, but honestly in my case it's not even the biggest problem to repairing things. That would be her family. She has poisoned relations between me and them. Even if there were a chance, I don't think I could go back knowing that I would not be accepted like before.
You will continue to have feelings for a while, regardless of which way this goes. They may seem contradictory, which is normal. Do I still feel attraction for my wife? Some, yes. Do I love her? Not this version of her. The old W who was honest I could love easily.
Do I like her? Definitely not.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
Does this include after D? If so, there is zero chance she doesn't sleep with another man. Probably 5% chance she's not sleeping with someone now.
yea I honestly feel like she isnt seeing anyone else. I know I could be naive in thinking that but just have a feeling she isnt. I think she is honestly going through a MLC and running away from her feelings here. She has a history of doing that and not addressing them. I feel her pain when she is around and talking. I know this hurts her even though she wont show too much. I heard her girl friend last night on the phone when we were talking about house stuff. Just how she is acting I feel like she isnt with anyone else. But yup, after D, if she does then Im out. Just no chance of anything ever rekindling for me. I will burn that feeling. We will see how it shakes out. And If there is OM now then yea def wont be happening either later in the future. She is gonna take her baggage with her into any relationship she will be in though. Thats on her though and any guy she is gonna be with. She is running from feelings now. both the hurt she holds onto and the hurt of the breakup. HER decision though! I have to move on. It will hurt and I can accept that. And I will heal in time. And when I do that door will be closed.
ABSOLUTELY left awhile ago!! Its all emotional here for her and she has to feel that and work through it herself.
Originally Posted by Sunflyer
My W has OM. I have not confronted her with it, but she made it ridiculously easy to find the evidence. Perhaps, subconsciously, she wants me to know, because that will make it easier to walk away from her. I am certain that she is aware that I've figured it out.
dang SF, Sorry to hear that. Tough call to handle. I know I would walk away. I've been there. but each situation is different and different rules apply. Why do you hold on?
Originally Posted by Sunflyer
You will continue to have feelings for a while, regardless of which way this goes. They may seem contradictory, which is normal. Do I still feel attraction for my wife? Some, yes. Do I love her? Not this version of her. The old W who was honest I could love easily.
Yes sir!!! Feelings will be there for awhile I know. Not sure how long it will take to heal. I think its more of a feeling you get and work through and know when you are there. I do still love my wife as well. I agree that I dont love this version of her. the old W was happy and free and loving. This new W is just pushing anything to get her agenda met while wrecking everything along the way. Still talks like she is caring though. Saying things like "Im sorry you have to go through this alone" or "I know this is tough and I hope you are managing as best as possible". Like WTF! just pulling heart strings. Showing you care but actions speak louder than words at this point. Not even sure how to respond to her anymore when she says things. It gets too emotional for me to respond, so I try to use logical answers but cant use logic with an illogical person right now!
yea I honestly feel like she isnt seeing anyone else. I know I could be naive in thinking that but just have a feeling she isnt
Look, I’m no DB veteran, but I’ve been around here for quite a while now.
The number of times there has been an affair person (AP) involved - hundreds.
The number of times there has been a AP involved when the OP came along and said “I genuinely don’t think I there’s someone else” - hundreds.
The number of times there hasn’t been a AP - maybe 1 or 2. Total. That’s in four years I’ve been here.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. But despite you thinking you know your wife better than anyone else, it’s almost a dead certainty there’s someone else. Chances they haven’t been intimate - pretty slim.
The sleeping on a girlfriend’s couch because she’s stressed - makes it a total certainty IMHO.
Women are monkey branchers. They’re pretty unlikely to cut the cord until they think have a better option.
Just to give you some insight - my EXW was having an affair with one of the Dad’s from our son’s soccer team. Meanwhile she was going to church every week. This is the level of deceit involved when it comes to affairs.
One of the keys to successful DBing is to set your expectations of other people very, very low.
I agree with Kind. Often in these forums, there is an AP involved somewhere, whether a physical affair or an emotional one. Unless a therapist works with you around the logic for exposing it and scripting out how to demand it stops, my observation from these boards is that it would be better to let it exhaust itself (if you can stand that - I wouldn't be able to do so either. But, I've seen family and friends get through a physical affair and come out better for it). Also, and I believe MWD discusses this in the books as do other marriage experts, it is recommended that you not go snooping because in general, it seems to make matters worse in several ways. I expect you have to ask yourself (logically and rationally) how will knowing serve ME? Do I need to know about an affair to do what I'm trying to do if I'm following the DB playbook and focusing on myself? I wish you and the courage and strength to handle it well.
Look, I’m no DB veteran, but I’ve been around here for quite a while now.
The number of times there has been an affair person (AP) involved - hundreds.
The number of times there has been a AP involved when the OP came along and said “I genuinely don’t think I there’s someone else” - hundreds.
The number of times there hasn’t been a AP - maybe 1 or 2. Total. That’s in four years I’ve been here.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. But despite you thinking you know your wife better than anyone else, it’s almost a dead certainty there’s someone else. Chances they haven’t been intimate - pretty slim.
The sleeping on a girlfriend’s couch because she’s stressed - makes it a total certainty IMHO.
Women are monkey branchers. They’re pretty unlikely to cut the cord until they think have a better option.
You may be correct here mate. I may be blinded to the fact because of the feelings still involved. Just kind of how I feel though that I dont think there is a OP. But could be. Cant really get wrapped up in that though and letting that stand in my way of moving forward. If there is then yea that [censored]. But doesnt change the fact that I have to move forward and better myself.
Also she didnt sleep on her friends couch. Her friend has a BF who doesnt live with her. So she likes someone to stay in the bed with her when he is gone. Oddly enough and ironic is that me and the W always joked that if we ever were to have a 3 way with any of her co-workers then it would be her one friend that she stayed the night with. W got up this morning and was talking but she said that her friend text her last night at 11 and asked if she was staying the night because her BF wasnt coming down last night. W said no.
Lots going on with the house under contract now. have a lifetime of stuff to pack up, donate and sell. Plenty to keep me busy now. Not sure what her plans are as far as moving out. She said initially she would once we were under contract. Who knows and who cares at this point.
Yesterday I was busy working around the house doing laundry and getting stuff done. She came home and then was on the phone and then left while still on the phone. She had one of her new outfits on yesterday and the temptation was real!!! but I was strong and getting stronger every day and keeping up the AS IF part. I worked more on things around the house. She came home later (looks like she met one of her friends and their kid at the park from the FB picture she posted). When she came home I was finishing up laundry and she asked how my day was. Told her it was a great day! She said that was good. I asked her how hers went and she said it was rough. I can tell this is all catching up to her. She has been rough for awhile now and work is kicking her butt. She just looked exhausted. I asked her how her ear was and she said it was fine. I probably shouldnt have asked that. But the vibe I got and my focus, I just kept moving along. went upstairs and never came back down. Got up this morning for working out and having breakfast. She comes up stairs. Looking rough and beat down. I asked if she slept good (knowing she didnt cause she doesnt want to sleep on the couch in the basement). She said it was rough. Work stuff last night was kicking her butt and then her girl friend asking her if she was coming over. She said she just crashed eventually. She asked why I was passive aggressive yesterday when she got home and I was finishing laundry. Told her I'm sorry she felt that I was and understand how she can see that since I was moving around quickly and not divulging in too much conversation and I was not being that way but more focused on getting things done. She didnt like the fact that I didnt hang out and puppy dog around her yesterday as far as I can tell. She said it was fine and not a big deal. But you can read her and she is fronting on that. I've been good on fronting myself and acting as if my life is going on. Have to keep that up. That pull back helps. She is strong and it may help her as well pull back and think that Im not in it no more and she needs to do the same. May help her emotionally since I think she is struggling with that right now and going through those emotions.
Mentally and emotionally it has been getting better. I know the road ahead and I will take my time to grief and heal. But I know what I have to offer and bring to the table. And I know this wasnt on me fully. I own my part though. She is going through some sort of MLC I feel. She wants to be free and run and hang with her friends (oddly enough it never bothered me when we were M that she wanted to go but she never did much). She has alot going on with her medical conditions and personal life. She has book club tonight at the one girl friends house (fully expect her to stay over there tonight as well). She hasnt even read the book and doesnt know much about it and the theme and stuff. Not like her since she has won the book club award the last 2 months. haha. I just see her collapsing. I feel bad and want to help but Im not. I am backing away and letting her fall. Im not being her support system as I was when we were together. I am not going to allow her to keep playing with my emotions and my head (this has been a big struggle for me and still is!). Even my 25D said yesterday that she doesnt know who my W is anymore. That she loves her but the way she has acted since this has gone down is not the same person she has known for the last few years. She doesnt get it. But she is upset with how the W is acting but just wants us to sell the house so we can all move along and figure things out. I have been very supportive of my daughter since this has all gone down. Head was clouded there for the 1st few weeks but now its more focused on whats in front of me and getting the things packed and figuring out my next chapter, whether that is with the W or not at this point.......
I agree with Kind. Often in these forums, there is an AP involved somewhere, whether a physical affair or an emotional one. Unless a therapist works with you around the logic for exposing it and scripting out how to demand it stops, my observation from these boards is that it would be better to let it exhaust itself (if you can stand that - I wouldn't be able to do so either. But, I've seen family and friends get through a physical affair and come out better for it). Also, and I believe MWD discusses this in the books as do other marriage experts, it is recommended that you not go snooping because in general, it seems to make matters worse in several ways. I expect you have to ask yourself (logically and rationally) how will knowing serve ME? Do I need to know about an affair to do what I'm trying to do if I'm following the DB playbook and focusing on myself? I wish you and the courage and strength to handle it well.
yea I agree with you here MP. I dont think it serves me any good to go snooping. It doesnt change anything at this point. Whether she is or is not. I honestly feel like that would be the death sentence for me though if she was. I might be able to get over an emotional one. But I feel like if it was physical then that would be a hard no for me. Just wouldnt be able to process and deal with that. Especially now she has asked for this D. Who knows. Life is crazy though. I am not trying to beat myself up at this point looking and probing. Just focusing on me, the house, my D and my life heading forward and what that looks like! I need to dive into the DB book. I have them now, just need to carve out some time to dive in. Not been an easy journey thats for sure here. But one I have to travel nevertheless. Time will tell how this plays out. in the meantime I have to do my thing and cant stress about what I cant control. Just need to take it one day at a time and keep my head and emotions in check and dont respond with emotions, just logic.
