Yesterday, I very lovingly texted H about us being autonomous with our ‘Private’ money and not having to disclose what we spend it on. I said in the text that having to rely on me to dish out money was emasculating for H. I told him I hate it and want him to be more independent. I ended up in this sitch with money to help him free up time and because I was doing the Wedding budget. Later on that night, I rang him (old habit) and he was short with me and hung up. I rang him again (old habit), but this time, I very gently but consistently asked him why he was short. H, told me because of the way I was talking about money this morning. It was an old habit of me to question why he wanted to do things differently and then I realised and sent him a loving text about how we should be autonomous. H told me it was such a loving text and thanked me for it and then I backed up again what I said on the phone and also said that I wanted him to be in control of his own matters. We ended up having a great phone conversation.
The breakthrough is this and it is a revelation. When H and I met, he used to tell me about how XW was bossy and used to scream at him all the time and how they argued all the time and in front of the Skids etc. They got married for other reasons than love. Won’t go into it. Eventually, they had kids. H has said to me at times that he feels he has to do things for XW because she has power and leverage. I used to think to myself how ridiculous. However, H started standing up for himself and our R and XW alienated H and I from the Skids a few years back and now he has contact with all of them and it’s because he is complying to XW. XW has tried just to alienate me from 2 of them, but I’m now (very patiently) having contact with them again.
Instead of seeing this as Stockholm Syndrome which I now believe it is, I just thought H was doing these things because he wanted to be with XW and wanted to Cake Eat. I think H is so traumatised still with what happened with alienation and how he gets punished that he believes he has respect and fondness for her. I could never work out why he would ring his sister and complain about XW, then defend XW to me. It’s always been so bloody confusing. In actual fact he is scared of her and won’t admit it to me because he is embarrassed and feels emasculated. SIL used to say all the time, H is not in love with XW, he just wants to see his Skids. Since our wedding, XW has consistently (nearly every weekend) tried to infiltrate our lives with her demands (very cleverly), even to the point where I think she is DBing because she has been very, very sweet to H. However, I heard her on the phone to SD and she screamed at SD in front of H and I not knowing I was listening.
Meanwhile, I have not helped at all!!! I have thought that because H says ‘yes’ to XW that he is fond of her and if only I’m more like her, then he will have respect for me more. Not that I’m anything like her, but I have nagged him about the sitch and cried and screamed and made him feel so guilty (not wanting to), and not realising that he fell in love with me for me being me. Oh God, I have been doing some things which have not helped the sitch at all and now I believe, H is sort of in this Learned Helplessness state where he feels like there is no one he can turn to anymore (I used to be the soft landing) that he might as well be doing what XW wants.
So, up until I found DB, life was crap for both of us, because I was reacting and barking up the wrong tree. Since though, My 180’s have been helping, and me detaching with as much love as I can muster.
Tomorrow I have this sitch where H feels he ‘has’ to go with XW to sign paperwork for SD. It has made me so angry and I really don’t want H to be with her. This is what I’m now going to say to him very gently and lovingly, ‘H, I would prefer if you took your own car to sign the paperwork as it makes me feel uncomfortable you going in the same car with XW. Of course it’s up to you to do what you feel you ‘need’ to do!’ I wont push the issue and I will do this when we are not too tired or hungry. If he chooses to go with her, I won’t chastise him nor say anything other than ‘okay well I’m going off to do this and I will be back later!’ And stay away for a while for my own sanity.
This last year, I used to think that I needed to shy away from spending time with H and the Skids to give H room to do what he needed to do with XW. Now, I realise I don’t have to shy away, I just need to be there very quietly and consistently in the background to support H while setting boundaries for myself, but giving him support to have confidence in his own decision making and choices. I didn’t realise how emasculated H was before I met him and I haven’t helped him for a good while neither. The Skids really are his hook with her and she knows it. Currently, I do think H believes he has a lot of respect and admiration for her while he feels helpless. It helps me to realise and believe what he says to SIL that he does not love her and just wants to see the Skids. I will definitely continue my DBing. It is really difficult to know what the 180’s will be all the time because there are so many of them, but I do believe I’m now on the right track.
I wonder how many other husbands and wives are suffering Stockholm Syndrome with X’s? I really believe the behaviour of someone suffering from Stockholm is similar to someone having an affair. Both are in a fog. I’m now researching on how to help someone suffering from it and what to do. H has really responded to me being very gentle in tone of voice. I volunteer for a Helpline and I’m now treating H with the same care as someone who is calling for help.
What a Godsend this site is!
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Just to further add, in my sitch, I have to be very reliable, dependable and consistently be there in the background to build up trust with H to help bring him back into the M. I suppose that is my 180 as I used to try and avoid H in difficult situations by not coming and having an excuse not to be with him for instance and all that did was show H that was not to be relied upon and not to be trusted. I will no longer avoid his Skids.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
I really, really need help!!!! Just reading back through my last posts and what a load of crap I wrote. I’ve decided I’m in a very bleak situation. I really need advice.
The latest is… for a few months, I thought my H was back in the marriage after doing some 180 stuff and a lot of the things I tried worked. A fortnight ago, H and I had to go to a party held by my SS and XW was there as well as other Skids and SIL and her H. It was extremely awkward because H couldn’t stop wanting to be around XW. He was attentive to me but his body language was always turned to her. He made excuses to sit at her table and wouldn’t even finish eating lunch with me. SIL who claims she has never liked XW sat with XW most of the day with her H. At one point all four of them were sitting together. I tried not to react but I walked out of the party (what I thought was discreetly) with H following me. I cried and said it was hurtful watching them all interact as old friends particularly when SIL said she didn’t like XW. I was just so sad. H even wanted me to stand next to him at one point so XW wouldn’t interact with him in front of me. So very confusing. It turns out he wanted me to stand beside him because he was scared XW would reveal conversations they had been having. SIL spent 10 mins with me and that was it. She had been very quiet the week running up and brushed me off in a phone call prior to the event.
Prior to the event, I asked H if he would be by my side to make a statement that we were united. He did sometimes and the rest of the time sat at table with XW and SD, SIL and H. After the event all was quiet at home and we snuggled on the couch. I didn’t bring anything up and refused to talk when H wanted to. The next day, H tried to pick a fight with me and I tried very hard not to react. He then asked me to leave and go home. We are LATS. I didn’t say or do anything to provoke it. I went home and then he called to say SIL thought I was pathetic because I was upset that no one talked to me. Anyhow… H and XW were just so familiar with each other. More than ever. I was pleasant to XW, asked a few questions and she was receptive. I thought I did okay considering what I was up against.
The next day after I went home, I decided to call XW to somehow connect. I don’t know what came over me but I’m glad I did. XW very innocently told me how wonderful H has been with her in the last few months with certain things relating to SS and how they talk all the time—not everyday but maybe twice a week. I was gobsmacked because I asked H if they spoke to each other a few times and he said no. I told her that H didn’t ever tell me that they spoke and she was seemingly surprised (maybe a little smug). She told me that she relies on him for support with the kids and I asked her if she had a man would she rely on H as much as she did and she said no. I started crying and told her I felt like a third wheel in my marriage and that her and H are treating each other like they are still married and it is affair like. She said they are not getting physical and I explained to her that there are all types of affairs and she realised that there are. She then told me that she doesn’t rely on H as much as she did before him and I got together. They were separated for about 5 years before we met. He then told me that she misses the company at the end of the day. I cried like a baby in front of her and she was quite empathetic and told me that she was way over him and that she didn’t want to go back there. We talked about being friends and got off the phone having a bit of respect for each other and genuine fondness. I did see a side of her which was very soft and caring and maybe she understood what it was like for me. She said that she would include me in some parenting with H and her. I then realised that H had picked the fight and told me to go home the next day after SS’s party because XW told me he had called and they talked and talked about SS’s party.
I am so angry with H. We then had another Family function a week later, No XW but SIL and her H. They were both frosty towards me. Step MIL was awful to me. My Dad went to hospital that week and they really didn’t care too much about what had happened. H was relatively loving toward me and so were the Skids, until SD was alone with H and I and then he started triangulating and started becoming cold towards me. I had to go early the next morning and we said our goodbyes as H stayed in bed. It was very early. In the meantime, he has picked more fights. He lied to me this weekend gone about something that I knew he called XW about. I know he has been talking to XW. H and SIL are bad mouthing me. SIL is gossiping to Step MIL. The only good news is that the Skids have all been very loving towards me. XW… I feel like I believe what she is saying. I know I talked dribble in my posts. I just want it to be all well. I feel like my H and SIL are ganging up on me aside from H absolutely lying to me about his contact with XW. I have laid very low since and gone grey with H. If anyone is out there. Please reply. Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
You’ve caught H in many lies regarding contacting XW. Some, even mid-text. You could see the screen reflected in his glasses. And H still denied it.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Is this normal, the going back and forth between M and OW?
With H and XW having kids together, some contact is inevitable. However, it seems to be much more than meeting during drop offs. By the way, what is their custody schedule?
H bouncing back and forth between being married to you and being around XW is not a healthy dynamic. And I know you suspect an EA at the very least, maybe even more.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I’m so tired of trying to point out how wrong this contact is. Now that I don’t, it is getting worse, but I don’t want to stop the runaway train of the A so it has a chance to implode.
Pointing out how wrong it is, or trying to get H to change, will just push him further away. Obviously you don’t need to go along with H and XW’s views, you let go.
You didn’t break him, therefore you can’t fix him.
Go gray with H. Implement boundaries on his disrespectful behaviours towards you.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I decided to call XW to somehow connect.
Be careful of XW. I realize you feel you and she connected from your phone call with her. However…
Originally Posted by KangaB
His EW won’t leave him alone and has tried different tactics over the years from yelling and screaming to sending him photos of her and his kids when they were toddlers, to texting both of us in tears that she is all alone to inviting herself to Christmas with IL’s…
You know the history of her behaviours and actions to engage H. I’d proceed cautiously with her.
Focus on you and your life. (Shift the focus off of H, and/or XW). Enjoy actives. Do some forgotten hobbies. GAL. And keep moving forward.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Interesting question and thank you for replying. I’m not actually sure what I’m expecting to happen! I will give this some thought. Not only am I to believe none of the hurtful, nasty stuff H says, but also the nice stuff? Would someone or you clarify? H tells me he loves me, he’s never been happier… he’s very tactile. At the same time he is lying to my face! It’s so confusing.
I realise too that saying grey, I meant going dark. I am trying to do this and then being upbeat and attentive when I do have contact that I’m not (for the most part) initiating.
H just tries to keep picking fights with me at the moment. I just got off the phone to him wanting to talk about his problems. He harkened back to a time in his life where he was rich and successful in a different country with XW and how it was the best time of his life. I’m not even going to try and figure this out. He is disrespecting me and casting me aside as his wife because he is not ‘happy’.
Anyhow… I want to GAL, but I’m exhausted from work stuff and I haven’t been that well in the last 5 days and not once has H asked how I was feeling. Pretty sad. Just a thought, I went back to doing 180’s just in the last few days and he has being treating me worse. So maybe something is working.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Thanks so much for your reply. They never had a formal custody schedule. At the moment SD is living with her M full time and SD sees her D when she can. It used to be that H was raising the Skids full time since they were little and they would go to their M’s on weekends. SS1 and SS2 are in their 20’s now. SD still in her teens. I realise just in the last few days that H is pursuing XW much more that XW and what it used to be. She did try all sorts of tricks. Now she know she probably doesn’t have to. I think she has moved on somewhat, but is enjoying the attention. Whereas H just wants to have the contact with her outside of our marriage.
I know that I need to be cautious around XW. I don’t need to be in her life or have hers in mine believe me. I did get some closure though from the conversation which has helped me to come out of denial and realise that H is my problem. No one else is—not SIL, not anyone. And yes… Let go!! I can’t fix him. I can clean up my side of the street—I get it. I’m tired of it. I went back to old patterns and behaviours. I got lazy basically. I have been setting boundaries as stated in Cadet’s reply. Oh it’s awful—the reactions. When do the reactions stop? Once I get over my illness, I will try to GAL. I’ve got so lost in all of this.
The hardest thing is doing the 180’s, going dark and GAL when he comes back into the marriage monetarily. I get blindsided by the closeness and smacked in the head when he is gone again.
What makes them become rigorously honest with themselves? I feel like I’m being played. However, I am coming out of denial with it all and accepting that this is the way it is for now.
I screenshot pearls of wisdom from the forums and read them back. It’s so amazing to have this to depend upon to learn what to do. It’s an extremely lonely process. Hopefully I will get the gist of replying to some other posts. I feel I don’t have anything to give away at the moment.
Glad to be here.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Btw, when my envelope is flashing, I go to check to see if I have mail and I don’t have any messages or I’m not signed up to receive them—maybe?? Would someone help me with this?
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
This forum is set up for anonymity with messaging and emailing being disabled. The envelope icon does flash for everyone, though there is nothing in anyone’s inbox. Just a weird little default of the software.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Not only am I to believe none of the hurtful, nasty stuff H says, but also the nice stuff?
Yep.
Believe nothing they say, and only half of what they do.
They are not (well usually not ) some pathological liar. These are folks who are letting their feelings rule their thoughts and actions. And feelings are fleeting. As quick as a feeling can and will change, so does their “reason”. They aren’t so much lying, as much as their “truth” is just so malleable to their current whim. And yes, at other times, they will outright lie to your face.
The really sad part for such a person, is when they start believing their truths/lies. They’ll quickly become lost in the weeds, and it’s a heck of a struggle to find their way back.
Hence, believe nothing they say.
The nasty stuff H says: It’s how he feels in that moment. Not actual truth. Not something you should take as gospel and believe.
The nice stuff H says: It’s how he feels in that moment. Not actual truth. Not something you should take as gospel and believe.
Actions speak louder than words. H’s behaviours will yield better indication of where he is at. H’s pursuing XW at the party says more truth than his exuberant professing of hardly ever contacting her. Thing is, he might actually believe his mixed up reality. Probably does. Taking their behaviours / actions at half value is again, because they will enact based upon their fleeting feelings too.
The underlying reality of H’s life will become apparent more in his long term demonstrated behaviours than his mere words. Long term. Individual interactions are just one questionable data point.
Anyhow, this why shifting your focus off H on onto yourself is so beneficial. Watching H for any small movements will drive your bonkers. And you’ll find all kinds of indicators that just won’t add up.
We all require a certain amount of understanding before we can or will let go the rope. Hopefully this has helped you with that.
I am glad that your conversation with XW provided some closure and helped you.
Thank you for the custody information. I figured that the step kids would be near adults by now, and drop off and pick up would be a nonissue. Should be far less needed face to face interaction between H and XW regarding adult children. SD being a teen will have a certain amount of school, driving lessons, visiting, and such to sort out. The boys in their twenties can easily see Dad or Mom as they see fit.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I can’t fix him. I can clean up my side of the street—I get it. I’m tired of it. I went back to old patterns and behaviours. I got lazy basically. I have been setting boundaries as stated in Cadet’s reply. Oh it’s awful—the reactions. When do the reactions stop?
You cannot control H, only yourself. You control your thoughts, actions, and reactions.
Boundaries are for disrespectful behaviour. And they will tested. H will smash against your boundaries, so ensure they are rock solid. That means enacting your enforcement of your boundary.
Boundaries are for you. What you will, or will not tolerate. They aren’t some mechanism for trying to push H along his path, or heal him. Like you wisely said, you can’t fix him.
Yes, H will not like boundaries. And he will likely react negatively, like a child being told no. Temper tantrums, anger, and such. Fear not, stick to your guns. His reactions will lessen when he realizes he cannot get away with it, when he realizes you aren’t backing down. Again, his realizing is beyond your control, you just do for you and let him thrash about.
That being said, any physical violence - call the police! He can stomp, yell, get mad, whatever, yet he better not cross that line.
Most often boundary enforcement is simply removing oneself from their presence. Hanging up the phone or leaving the room when they start swearing at you, as an example. You control you.
Originally Posted by KangaB
What makes them become rigorously honest with themselves? I feel like I’m being played. However, I am coming out of denial with it all and accepting that this is the way it is for now.
Being honest with themselves speaks directly to how they are crafting their world view based upon their emotions. Thing is, some feel like they are being rigorously honest. Example, they feel like they no longer love us, and they will never again.
Major life decisions made based upon emotions often leads to regrets.
People can twist reality about, assert their feelings and weave they world accordingly. However, reality can only be twisted or bent so far, and then it snaps back. Life provides plenty of feedback. One chooses to listen or ignore it.
Most people will not make such life altering changes, heck not even smaller changes, until the hurt of not doing so becomes intolerable. People usually need to hit rock bottom before really changing.
I’m glad you can see your positive progress. Keep moving forward.
And yes, I find this forum to be pretty amazing too.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
) some pathological liar. These are folks who are letting their feelings rule their thoughts and actions. And feelings are fleeting. As quick as a feeling can and will change, so does their “reason”. They aren’t so much lying, as much as their “truth” is just so malleable to their current whim. And yes, at other times, they will outright lie to your face.