I’m coming out of a fog thanks to finding Divorce Busting a month ago and avidly reading the Forums and the DB book.
I don’t know what to do. I suspect my H is MLCing and has been on and off for the majority of our R. His EW won’t leave him alone and has tried different tactics over the years from yelling and screaming to sending him photos of her and his kids when they were toddlers, to texting both of us in tears that she is all alone to inviting herself to Christmas with IL’s (trying to use my learned abbreviations) to now to doing a 180 and being as attractive and available and friendly as possible. This started before we got married. My H has told her over the years that he loves me and that he is not interested in getting back together with her. However, something changed before our wedding with his opinion of EW from not wanting to have anything to do with her to now defending her and allowing her into his house (we LAT) whenever she wants. H doesn’t want me around when she has organised tickets for them to go and see something of his D’s at School concerts etc (her latest weapon). EW has been very cunning in inviting me, but when I’m there, she and H get into Parental mode and H completely forgets that I exist. So now, I choose not to go. SD, I think is now on her M’s side and does not want me around even though we were very close for a good 6 years. Skids were part of our W. H lies to me about how much contact he has with EW and becomes abusive when I challenge him on it. H used to see my side of things and would try and support me. Now H just abuses me and stonewalls me.
Over the years, I have even reached out to EW to try and befriend her. Initially, I just wanted to get to know her and be part of a team raising the skids. EW was not into it. I have always been a ‘Sister before a Mister type woman’. EW just sees me as competition. I have always been polite and courteous to her up until a few months ago when she just stormed into my H’s house without waiting to be asked in and I gently directed her back to the door and told her that she was to be asked to be invited in from now on. When I told H about this, he said she had every right to be there after many times he said he wasn’t going to have C with her and didn’t want her to do that. H, every few mths, picks fights with me in person on the phone and sets up a scenario where all of our plans get cancelled and it doesn’t matter what they are. I think I have realised that this happens when he has had C with EW or is about to. All of our family and friends are wondering what the hell is going on. We are under huge Financial strain at the moment. I’m managing all the finances and we are trying to get EW off the mortgage during High interest rates and High inflation etc. I try my best to not react, set boundaries, show interest in Skids; but, not too much. Two of the Skids have been PAS against H in the past few years from EW as a reaction to our engagement and pending M. Now they are PAS’d against me only and H has fallen back in favour with the two, to the point that SD is trying to take over any time we try and spend together (mostly weekends). An example is SD wanted to spend NYE just gone with H and without me. I have had to give up birthdays, Easter and other holidays because SD wants to be around H all the time. I have no problem with SD spending time with H; but, this behaviour wreaks EW’s. H used to sets boundaries with EW. He would block her as she would call Sunday mornings for instance. Now he doesn’t care if and when she texts or calls. I know it is up to H to set boundaries with EW and SD. EW is a huge problem; but, H is the only one who can stop it. H goes between loving me to hating me. H is wonderful when he is in our M.
H, when angry accuses me of doing things that I never do and then tells me I’m gaslighting and manipulating. I look for my part in things always. I’m tired. I wear my WR as a promise to God that I will love H for better; for worse. I just don’t want to give up on my M. I do C and my C thinks I’m in a fight for my M against EW. EW is very clever and won’t let up. H just doesn’t care much about me anymore, no help if I’m sick even. H said a few weeks ago that he doesn’t want to give up on our marriage. I welcome and need help—I’m scared!
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
H and I met OL and we talked for 4 mths before we met. Six months into our courtship, H told me he was only S from EW. I was livid and left him for a while until he absolutely pursued me back in. My ego was huge and we were in early stages of limerence. I told H that if he wanted to be with me, he would have to D his EW. H agreed and obviously went ahead and did it. I look back now and should have said, ‘let’s get together when you are D.’ H even agreed. I was stupidly, madly in love. I have been through his D settlement as well. I’m angry with myself and I know that there is nothing I can do now because it is in the past. What I feel now is that, we have never had the chance to really consummate our M (not sexually); but, emotionally, because H won’t allow it, EW won’t allow it and SD won’t allow it. I talked to SD the other day and said how close I was to my father and how important it is that H and her spend time together. I also said I was on her side and will offer to be away at times so H and her can have one on one time together.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Sorry! I’m replying to myself, not sure how to use everything for posting yet.
These are the things that I have been doing since finding Divorce Busting and even months before (DB has validated some of the things I have started doing and more so):
- I have read up on 180’s, detaching etc - I am starting to do new things such as learning Karate, getting in contact with old friends, buying new clothes and looking the best I can at all times in front of H including excellent hygiene - I am a bit quieter and do not talk as much as I used to and let H bring up conversations. - I’m validating him and listening to him even when I don’t agree I’ve stopped putting myself in front of H’s spew and vitriol and will get off the phone, leave the room etc - I don’t mention EW and I say I don’t want to talk about her today, tonight etc - I have tried not to react; but, have got angry and ranted twice since newly DBing - I don’t initiate phone calls or texts unless it is to do with business stuff - I try to be upbeat and fun when we are together - I don’t make much eye contact nor try and get H’s attention. I’m slightly aloof and mysterious in front of him - I don’t snoop (used to a few years back) and don’t react and ask about texts and contact he has with EW - I leave him well alone when he is angry. Used to follow him around to try and cajole him out of a mood. I used to pull funny faces as if I was in front of a toddler. Sometimes it worked and H welcomed it and other times it didn’t. No more - I don’t talk to SIL about this anymore. - I’m not trying to fix anything or any part of H’s life - I pretend to be confident and capable - I say ‘you could be right’, ‘I was wrong’. I also say ‘I hear you, I get it, I understand’ - I stand tall and don’t cower when he is yelling at me until he backs away and sits down - I thank H for little things he does and praise him for all of his good work and efforts on various things - I am more engaging with SD than I have been for a long time - I ignore EW, I don’t say hello nor make eye contact. I have blocked her from phone and email
So far, H has accused me of having an A because he can’t work out what is going on. H, when in the marriage is a lot more loving and attentive. H, has picked a few more fights over minor things. Such as when I got a date wrong on the calendar to do with a Money situation. I know about Extinction Bursts; but, hard to decipher in my R.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Welcome to the forum. I see you are reading DR and some threads. Very good!
I am copying the welcome thread below for your reference as well, it is full of links to a wealth of useful information.
From what I read, you and H dated for four years, then his divorce was finalized, continued dating and you two married three years later. Has XW been pursuing H the entire eight years? When did you and H start living apart together (LAT)?
By the way, I did get your inquiry into the face emoji and OP meanings. As far I can tell, the emoji signifies if that poster is online or not - grey and indifferent is offline, smiling is online; and OP means original poster.
I look forward to conversing with you. Hoping you have a good day.
Take care,
DnJ
- - - -
Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
By the way, I did get your inquiry into the face emoji and OP meanings. As far I can tell, the emoji signifies if that poster is online or not - grey and indifferent is offline, smiling is online; and OP means original poster.
I agree with DNJ that in this case it means original poster. However it sometimes used in the body of a post to mean Other Person and if you look at some of my very first posts it was also directed at me since my name was Old Pilot.
You are doing all of the right things. I'm glad you are finding your footing and are posting and reading the book. If your h is in mlc, he is going to be bouncing off the walls for a while. Confusion and depression are the main ingredients of a mlc. Usually it takes 18-24 months for them to enter the crisis and it generally happens after a death of a loved one or a close friend, promotion with additional pressures or a demotion, or an illness. Think back, did something happen with him during that time period? When this happens, they do not like authority and they will look at us as parents who tend to hinder them in what they want to do (or so they think).
Generally, a childhood trauma has been stuffed down and will raise its ugly head when the crisis comes calling. It could have been abuse of any kind, lack of validation, another child loved more than him/her, etc. We can't fix them because we didn't break them. They have to be the ones to figure it out.
They also project a lot and if you listen closely, they tend to tell on themselves. All you can do is get out of their way and just leave them to it. One thing...be sure you are watching all of your financial stuff. I would set up a separate bank account and if there is any way to get your name off the joint accounts, the better. Why? Because they do tend to go on spending sprees as well.
Keep posting. Dig deeper for patience and please know, that you didn't cause this crisis.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you for my welcome and the Welcome pack. I’m really looking forward to all of your help and feedback, and eventually contributing when I have something to give away.
H and I have always LAT because the Skids lived with him full time (went to their M’s on weekends) up until 2 yrs ago. SD living with her M full time and coming to visit H when she can. Our idea was that H would join me to LT when SD was launching on her own. TBH, I’m not in any hurry at the moment to LT and have given up on our dreams that we once had.
XW (EW) didn’t give a fig that we were together in the beginning. She started pursuing when things got serious between us. Ranting and crying when we got engaged. Since H and I have been together she has never had boyfriend. Some dates apparently. When H and I met, they had been separated for about 6yrs. H had been dating and in a serious relationship between formal separation and meeting me. Since just before our wedding XW uses many excuses to see H. They used to live around the corner from each other and now she lives 2hrs away.
I will unpack along the way. I will try and stick to small frequent posting. The load is huge and reading back through my first posts, everything seems disjointed. I’m so overwhelmed that I have suppressed memories, feelings, anger. I’ve stopped crying. I used to cry a lot. I feel like a deer in the headlights because I feel it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Thanks to both of you for clarifying. Just after I sent the message, I found the Abbreviations list and read it there. I’m so sensitive about OP what I thought was the Other Person because that is how I’m feeling in my M. I feel I’m being shoved out very slowly and surely with measure and manipulation now.
I feel H has been hooked by XW and there is nothing I can do. I used to fight it. Now I have dropped the rope and I feel like it’s just showing that I don’t care. LAT, I feel I’m not getting the opportunity to use my DBing of the little I know how to do.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
You are doing all of the right things. I'm glad you are finding your footing and are posting and reading the book. If your h is in mlc, he is going to be bouncing off the walls for a while. Confusion and depression are the main ingredients of a mlc. Usually it takes 18-24 months for them to enter the crisis and it generally happens after a death of a loved one or a close friend, promotion with additional pressures or a demotion, or an illness. Think back, did something happen with him during that time period? When this happens, they do not like authority and they will look at us as parents who tend to hinder them in what they want to do (or so they think).
Thank you JOB. I’m determined and trying. Yes I’m not sure if H is in MLC but something changed when he was getting closer to 60 and he realised that he hadn’t reached his full potential. Skids growing up and leaving home. That threw me when routine with Skids went out of whack when they were no longer around. There are a myriad of things.
Originally Posted by job
Generally, a childhood trauma has been stuffed down and will raise its ugly head when the crisis comes calling. It could have been abuse of any kind, lack of validation, another child loved more than him/her, etc. We can't fix them because we didn't break them. They have to be the ones to figure it out.
H is a child of D in the 70’s. He said he blacked out for a full year when he was 15 when it happened. He admits that his maturity has not gone beyond that. I do feel I’m dealing with a teenager. His F was abusive and he was sent to live in a caravan in the backyard when his SS’s moved in to old family home with SM. And yes, I know I didn’t cause it, can’t control it and can’t cure it. I can say all the right Wise sayings but I can’t live it most of the time.
Originally Posted by job
They also project a lot and if you listen closely, they tend to tell on themselves. All you can do is get out of their way and just leave them to it. One thing...be sure you are watching all of your financial stuff. I would set up a separate bank account and if there is any way to get your name off the joint accounts, the better. Why? Because they do tend to go on spending sprees as well.
My God, H spends like you wouldn’t believe. He wrote out a letter stating that he wanted me to manage his finances because he doesn’t trust himself. I have closed down our together account citing different reasons other than I don’t trust him atm. Finances are separated, they have never really come together. I fear he will lose his house. Interest rates increasing over here and his work is infrequent so I’m trying to make his money stretch. I feel I’m enabling him with $$ because I don’t want him to lose the house as it’s part of his retirement fund when he sells and moves to me. At the same time, I feel used atm and I have to say there is a part of me that it’s one way to show him that I care and he needs me. I’m so confused. One minute, I’m scared of losing him and the next, I don’t feel anything but relief when I don’t see H because he does project. He rants a lot and when I’m looking at it as 3rd person, I can see that it has nothing to do with me. It hurts that he spews to me that I’m manipulating and gaslighting when I don’t do any of it. He says a lot of things with distrust and paranoia and I have seriously shown him the best love I possibly know.
I will get into more later. I want to share the things that I have stopped doing.
Btw, I do write better in the mornings, I know that my replies to you all will be half a world away. I really do appreciate the support already.
Originally Posted by job
Keep posting. Dig deeper for patience and please know, that you didn't cause this crisis.
Last edited by DnJ; 07/10/2302:08 AM. Reason: Corrected quoting syntax.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
I forgot to answer your question about our R history. So yes, we met 8yrs ago. H D XW around our 4yr mark. We got engaged at 6yrs and married at 7yrs.
Just to add from my signature. When I went OL dating, I only ever wanted to meet men who were D, S or W. H ticked my boxes. I was absolutely furious for a long time that he never got D. I even told his XW that he did that in my stupidity that if I shared my life with her she would realise I was no threat to her as M of the Skids. Everything I have told XW she has used as a weapon towards me. Will get into it down the track.
One thing this is teaching me is that I absolutely had my head in the clouds about trust and M etc. I always thought M was a soft landing where H looked after you as you did him because you made vows together. I’ve almost lost hope and I don’t want my M to end.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Before I met H, I was sure of myself. I was fun and jolly. I had a great dress sense and was very creative. Came from a creative background in my 1st career. H is a great looking man and he is charming and charismatic. With this, I became insecure and jealous at times. I felt H would do things to make me feel this way, even though he said to me early on that he was a very jealous man. So, I gave him no reason to be jealous. I don’t believe he thought of me in that way. Every so often, when I would arrive at his house after he picked up Skids from school, there would be School M dropping by to borrow things. I once challenged one of them why she was there and she never came back. I was polite about it. I just felt so controlled by insecurity. I used to ask about who was phoning or texting, show me his FB because I’m not on it. I used to do a lot of snooping on his phone for calls and texts. I found texts from XW manipulating him into nostalgia and pity. I found photos that she would send of the Skids as toddlers as a reminder of her being their M. I can’t have my own kids so it would hurt like crazy. Once she (at SS 18th) from a cross a Restaurant table screamed out to H to look at photo of her BF their S.
I used to get through to H, no more C with XW unless it is absolutely necessary. I would get SIL and IL’s too to say this to H too. He did block her at times and had LC. I felt so much better but all the while, I felt I had lost myself in trying to control our R.
Since I found DB (maybe 6wks ago). I don’t ask who is calling, who is texting. I don’t ask about whether he has C with XW. I say I don’t want to talk about XW. I change the subject if he brings her up. I walk away from a situation where H needs to flirt with another W or grab attention. I don’t put myself in the way. I stopped snooping a year ago because it hurt too much and I can’t work his new iPhone.
SD is now 17 and she has become a Mini W and he flirts with her a bit and she with him. SD feels she has to compete with me now. Which is a shame because I love her like she is my own and had a lot of input into raising her. I now walk away when this happens. I take myself out of the equation. All of this hurts. I hate it. I am so damn attracted to my H. I physically react to him as if he is my childhood movie star crush. For some reason, he feels he needs attention from other W. I don’t feel this way about myself. I always thought H enjoyed when I reacted by being jealous and insecure even though he would show revulsion, because it was attention for him. I feel so out of control with this. I have lost myself in this. I don’t even know who I am anymore.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
I was trying to be clever and post to your quotes and it didn’t quite work out. I value your comments and welcome your input. Somewhere in your quote reply is me replying.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
My God, H spends like you wouldn’t believe. He wrote out a letter stating that he wanted me to manage his finances because he doesn’t trust himself. I have closed down our together account citing different reasons other than I don’t trust him atm. Finances are separated, they have never really come together. I fear he will lose his house. Interest rates increasing over here and his work is infrequent so I’m trying to make his money stretch. I feel I’m enabling him with $$ because I don’t want him to lose the house as it’s part of his retirement fund when he sells and moves to me.
You know what happens when you treat someone like a child?
Thanks for posting… I absolutely agree. There were so many things that I was doing for H which he could do for himself. I’m easing out of enabling him in other ways. I can’t think right now what they are. However, I really believe that at times and not deliberately that I have emasculated H and somehow I’ve been put in this role by him because he was used to it. His XW was the breadwinner in their marriage and he gave up his career to raising the Skids and I have seen firsthand H being emasculated by her.
I have on my list of goals that when finances improve, I will ease out of this role. A role that I eased into because I was doing the W budget. I want him to step up with his finances because I know he will feel in control and feel better about himself. I love H being the man in our marriage and taking care of me—not financially; but, doing manly things and encouraging chivalry, which he is great at when he is in the M. We both love our Traditional roles.
Today has not been a good day nor yesterday. Awful weekend followed by a previous awful weekend. I was doing well last week. I’ve fell into a slump and I’m thinking that it’s because I’m finally unleashing all of it here.
I’m reading back and I’m so angry with XW, I know I want to just unleash on her. I know I need to draw the focus back on myself. I can’t help it. I also tend to see H as a victim which is really dangerous. I’m so threatened by XW!
Much appreciated.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Wasn’t a criticism of you btw, but you didn’t take it that way, so that’s good!
Just a statement of fact.
Some marriages end up with pretty unhealthy dynamics around things like money, sex, chores, affection - and normally that’s because small compensations on one person’s behalf are allowed to grow. Fast forward ten years with it unchecked, and you can end up with a man-child or woman-child.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Just reflecting back on what I have written and trying to make sense of what is going on in my marriage. I’m a bit confused as to whether I ought to be piecing as well as 180’s, detaching etc.
I think my H is MLCing and him wanting to keep XW around is very uncomfortable. However, he hasn’t wanted to leave the marriage, even though I think he has emotionally checked out most of the time.
I would appreciate some feedback.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
I have a bit of a positive result even thought it still hurts.
Since I have been doing some DBing, H has just started telling me the contact he has been having with XW. Since before the wedding, I knew that he was talking to her a lot because she has an accent and his accent changes slightly when he talks to her and I used to tell him, I can tell you have been talking to XW because your accent has changed. I had stopped snooping a while ago and just presumed. H just backed off from conversing with me because of my scrutiny and I just used to react so much to hearing about his XW. I’m ashamed that I did this.
He is feeling more comfortable telling me about his conversations with her as I’m not reacting. I absolutely hate it that he is having so much contact because she is trying to be his best friend and being very accommodating and agreeable. This is where I think XW is DBing because she used to just scream at him. Their conversations are usually about SD (as far as I know). Although it’s not important stuff, just a little bit of drama created by SD. XW will use any excuse to call H to get his attention.
I just can’t understand why she hasn’t moved on. And why he won’t keep setting boundaries. Is he cake eating? I have girlfriends who are divorced that don’t even want to be around their exes because they are happy that they have moved on or are resentful and don’t want to have anything to do with them
Our conversations have been better because he is opening up. I really feel like it’s a competition between her and I as to who is going to be his bestfriend/soul mate.
I really need some feedback. I do feel what I’m doing is working. My goal now is to re-engage him with me. I also made a list of all the selfish things I have done in our R since Goal setting.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
I’m a bit confused as to whether I ought to be piecing as well as 180’s, detaching etc.
Piecing is much further down the road.
The DB path is pretty counterintuitive. In the beginning, stuff will feel incorrect, will not be one’s default norm - doing 180’s for example. When it feels that way, you are likely doing pretty well.
For right now, time and space are needed for H. He needs to feel like his has lost you. Maybe then he will commit to the marriage.
Find detachment, that is the single best thing you can do for yourself. Detach from H, his words, and his behaviours. Let it all go; just roll right off of you. I do know and realize, that is a lot easier said than done. (((Hug)))
Originally Posted by KangaB
I just can’t understand why she hasn’t moved on. And why he won’t keep setting boundaries. Is he cake eating? I have girlfriends who are divorced that don’t even want to be around their exes because they are happy that they have moved on or are resentful and don’t want to have anything to do with them
Divorced parents can have a cordial relationship for jointly raising their kids. However, your intuition, and H’s conversations and actions, do indicate something more than that. There may not be any PA, yet it certainly looks like a EA at the least. So yes to cake eating. H is stepping outside of the marriage for emotional comfort at the minimum.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Our conversations have been better because he is opening up. I really feel like it’s a competition between her and I as to who is going to be his bestfriend/soul mate.
Kanga, don’t compete with XW. She is a symptom of H’s problems. She is a band-aid for him. You are the prize! Do not lower yourself to completing to see which of the “girls” will become H’s best friend or soulmate!
Best thing you can do - step away from that. Do not see XW as a rival. Do treat her as a rival. Drop that rope.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I do feel what I’m doing is working. My goal now is to re-engage him with me. I also made a list of all the selfish things I have done in our R since Goal setting.
Read the part about the solutions journal in the Divorce Remedy book. Positive movement forward is by very small increments. A solutions journal is a somewhat map/guide you created when you are rational and clear minded. The wee positive achievements are easier to see that way. You then make your decisions and choices based upon rational logic thought rather than feelings.
That being said, do not keep looking for signs. This journey will take longer than you realize, or want it to. That’s ok. Time is your friend. Time is a gift. Use it wisely. Do your inner work.
In my opinion, do not work to re-engage with H. Let him feel the loss. Let him re-engage with you, on his own accord. You don’t place boulders on the path, yet you don’t pave it in gold either.
Keep posting my dear. Ask questions. There are many kind and compassionate folks here, with much hard-earned wisdom. And please don’t fret if it takes a few days for a response. Sometimes things occur rapidly around here, and other times it can be kind of slow for folks to get back to one another. Slow is really good practice for finding patience, a much needed tenet for these DB journeys.
Hang in there Kanga.
D
Last edited by DnJ; 09/05/2312:47 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I’m trying to distance myself from H. For instance, we didn’t see each other in our normal weekly time frame this week just gone. LAT 3 nights a week, 4 nights together. He did see XW during the time we were supposed to be together as she was picking up something from his place for SD (??) I didn’t bring this up with him. I’m sure it is just EA at the moment. I know she is trying for something more, she is trying to flirt and be suggestive in front of him. Seen this now a few times recently.
Anyhow… my questions is: How do I distance from H when we are going to be spending the next 5 days together? Would you be able to give me examples? We spend exclusive time together because we are too far apart to drive home from one another’s place of an evening. We also work together.
At the moment, I don’t make a lot of eye contact with him and I’m standing straighter with an ‘air’ of holding back/slightly aloof, yet, friendly. So hard to juggle this. I’m being more independent in his company, and also saying to him, I’m just going to have some quiet time. All 180s for me. The last time I did this, H reacted and was upset with me as a collective of things that I did. I reflected back and I realised I made a mistake in my behaviour. This time together, I’m going to try and keep doing independent things. It’s really hard because we love spending time together and working on our stuff. It’s the time that we really relax into our M and have a lot of fun. Our sex life has always been pretty good and I don’t want to let that drop. How do I DB with that?
Is DR available to read online as I have been reading DB? I started reading the first chapter of DR here and got disheartened as it mentions that it’s never too late when you are divorced. I got really scared because I just thought of XW still trying after all these years with my H.
What do I do when she is doing something like DBing to ruin my marriage? It feels like a battle of DBing.
I’m trying to drop the rope.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Please don’t get disheartened by the idea of divorce or the discussions of it. Divorce is a possibility. Knowing about it, can help you avoid some pitfalls. And knowledge is power.
Do get Divorce Remedy, it is an excellent book. Read it cover to cover, several times. (Only the first chapter is online.)
Keep DR and all your DB wisdom and this site from H. Do not share any of this with him. H will see it as manipulation and will fight against it. DB is your playbook, and right now H is not on team Kanga.
Originally Posted by KangaB
How do I distance from H when we are going to be spending the next 5 days together? Would you be able to give me examples? We spend exclusive time together because we are too far apart to drive home from one another’s place of an evening. We also work together.
At the moment, I don’t make a lot of eye contact with him and I’m standing straighter with an ‘air’ of holding back/slightly aloof, yet, friendly. So hard to juggle this. I’m being more independent in his company, and also saying to him, I’m just going to have some quiet time. All 180s for me. The last time I did this, H reacted and was upset with me as a collective of things that I did. I reflected back and I realised I made a mistake in my behaviour. This time together, I’m going to try and keep doing independent things. It’s really hard because we love spending time together and working on our stuff. It’s the time that we really relax into our M and have a lot of fun. Our sex life has always been pretty good and I don’t want to let that drop. How do I DB with that?
First off, when you make a 180, H is likely to have a poor reaction as his balanced world gets tilted. This is a good thing. And also, shrug, don’t worry about it. You make changes for you! These are not an act to try to win H back.
The changes you like and that resonate with you - keep them. Make them permanent. For the ones that fall flat, drop em and try something else.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Before I met H, I was sure of myself. I was fun and jolly. I had a great dress sense and was very creative.
Find this gal again!
Now, how to distance from H.
I think I’ve got what you’ve shared sorted out correctly. Forgive me if I got something wrong. (And correct me. )
XW seems to be in H’s life too much. And in the incorrect capacity. I think you’ve already clearly stated that to H. If not, you probably should do so. Then let it be. No more relationship talks.
Next, shut down the cake shop. If H is getting the best of both worlds, he is unlikely going to look to change anything.
Implement boundaries. Disrespectful behaviour from H should not be tolerated. Stated your boundary, then hold it hard. Make it rock solid! H will test it. He will try to break it. You hold solid.
A boundary is for you. It’s not something to fix H. It’s a mechanism for you to lessen disrespect towards you, and for you to heal. (There is a good link on boundaries in the welcome thread.)
Treat H as a roommate. As a cashier at the store. Be kind and cordial, and not too friendly.
Originally Posted by KangaB
We spend exclusive time together because we are too far apart to drive home from one another’s place of an evening.
I get you and he live two hours apart. Still, go home. Do not stay over.
I commuted two hours each way for work. Yeah, it ain’t great. However, it is doable.
How far is work from you? Why are going to H’s place?
Be busy these five days. You are not going home and pinning for him. When H asked if you are coming over, “No. I’m going out for dinner and then heading home.” Next night, you’re going to see some friends, got other plans, etc.
H isn’t stepping up to the plate like the husband you want and deserve. Don’t reward him for it.
Find yourself again. Keep moving forward. And let H run to catch up to you.
None of this is done out of meanness or malice. H is making choices regarding XW/OW, and he gets his consequences is all.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I will write more over the next few days. Thank you for sharing great advice.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
I think I’ve got what you’ve shared sorted out correctly. Forgive me if I got something wrong. (And correct me. )
XW seems to be in H’s life too much. And in the incorrect capacity. I think you’ve already clearly stated that to H. If not, you probably should do so. Then let it be. No more relationship talks.
Next, shut down the cake shop. If H is getting the best of both worlds, he is unlikely going to look to change anything.
Implement boundaries. Disrespectful behaviour from H should not be tolerated. Stated your boundary, then hold it hard. Make it rock solid! H will test it. He will try to break it. You hold solid.
A boundary is for you. It’s not something to fix H. It’s a mechanism for you to lessen disrespect towards you, and for you to heal. (There is a good link on boundaries in the welcome thread.)
Treat H as a roommate. As a cashier at the store. Be kind and cordial, and not too friendly.
Hi DnJ,
Sorry it’s taken a while to reply.
Yes XW is in H’s life too much and it has ramped up in the last year since we got married and in the wrong capacity. I have spent so much time over the last 6 years on and off of trying to convince H that he does not need to have the contact that he has with XW. I have cried and yelled and pleaded and begged and levelled with him. To no avail. In the last 6 weeks since finding DB and trying to do 180’s, I have gone grey and ignored their contact as much as possible.
I read you loud and clear about boundary setting and am doing this. I don’t say I’m setting a boundary I just do it.
I know last week, you suggested that I not see H over the next 5 days and make myself busy. I wasn’t able to cancel our plans and tbh, I didn’t want to because H being at my place, we are fairly uninterrupted by XW and Skids and I can implement my DBing, which I did do a lot of.
So, after 5 days being together, H was the most attentive and affectionate he has been since we first got together. He asked me what I wanted to do for my 50th which is 6 months away. He was even a lot more tender with sex which is a first actually. Overall, I consistently did my 180’s that I know how to do. We left on a wonderful, loving note. Until yesterday…
H left 2 days ago and said that he missed me and hated being home (which he normally doesn’t say). There were no prompts from me. Now for the baffling behaviour… H revealed to me yesterday that this weekend coming, he ‘has’ to go with XW somewhere to fill in some paperwork for SD. He said he wasn’t sure where and when. This weekend SD wants H and I to do something nice for her B’day. Last night, I was so upset about this, I vented at Karate and went home and didn’t take his calls until I rang him this morning. I have been leaving H to initiate contact of late and this morning I didn’t. H picked a fight about money. I do all the account keeping and budgeting and on the weekend, he asked that I just get him cash for his weekly budget (which is not like him) and then said he was wanting to have some money to himself for his own expenses. Wtf? I tried so hard not to react as he was baiting me about how busy he was over the next few days and when I asked what he was up to, he got annoyed with me and said he didn’t have to tell me everything!
I was so shocked! So I agreed with him and texted him that I think it’s a great idea that we stay autonomous and have some ‘Private’ money and not have to disclose what we spend our money on. I’ve started texting H when he is angry as a boundary because I refuse to be yelled at over the phone and I now hang up. I then let him know why I hung up. This was before he sent a text to say he wouldn’t be wanting to have other money and to just let him know what our next project is. It was really submissive. I help him with his business. I have not heard from him since I suggested that we have autonomy with our finances and have some ‘Private’ money.
Another thing that has baffled me is H has been watching a show about Affairs and how he couldn’t stand me having a friendship with someone of the opposite sex. He was also really upset that I didn’t talk to him last night as I just couldn’t handle him having to be with XW and said our talk time was our time together on the phone. It is so confusing!!!
What I have figured out is that since I have been DBing and H is coming back into our marriage, it actually feels worse when he jumps back out. Before, he was just angry with me most of the time and picked fights so I didn’t know how bad things were when was out of the marriage because it was most of the time. Now, he is back in and then out. XW just clicks her fingers it seems and he is there. Another thing that happened when he was here for 5 days and all was well, I caught him on his phone texting someone and sat down in front of him and saw the reflection in his glasses. He quickly swiped to a new page on phone and lied and said he was texting no one. He got annoyed. Me asking was an old habit, but he was so secretive. He is usually not secretive with texts. When H was here, it was the only hint of A with XW and also when he rang SD, XW chimed in, in the background to try and engage him. I just walked out of the room when this happened.
This weekend coming, I plan to keep to myself until the day we spend with SD and allow H and XW to do their ‘thing’ whatever the paperwork bs is. I’m so tired of trying to point out how wrong this contact is. Now that I don’t, it is getting worse, but I don’t want to stop the runaway train of the A so it has a chance to implode. SIL believes XW is trying to destroy our M and I’m trying so hard not to involve her anymore.
I’m figuring when H comes to me for our time together, I do my DBing without distraction and then go darkish when XW is hovering and he is getting cake elsewhere.
Is this normal, the going back and forth between M and OW? Last weekend was amazing with H, I just can’t believe the turnaround.
I really welcome feedback. I’m now reading DR!
Kanga
Last edited by DnJ; 07/20/2302:12 PM. Reason: Added quote syntax.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Just wondering whether someone would tell me how to put the quotes in boxes so there is separation between quote and what I say?
Thanks,
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Also in the last 5 days, H told me I was beautiful a few times which he normally wouldn’t say too much of and I stopped asking for reassurance, compliments a few years ago, and now, back to this secretive bs with XW.
This is awful! Would someone explain what could be going on? Is he saying those things and doing nice things because he can see a change in me and he is back or is it because he is feeling guilty?
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Oh Kanga I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. I hope some of the experts can help you here with their encouraging words. I have only been here a few months so I am still new in my own mess too but one thing that has stuck from here is “believe nothing of what he says and half of what he does”. It sounds like he is pulling some serious heart strings. I too was like you super analysing everything every word every comment. Honestly I drove myself nuts for months, the see-saw of H and his emotions etc. I’ve almost had a realisation very recently ( thanks to Kind18 being blunt which is what I needed) That being the crazy super analysing person hasn’t worked, it’s exhausting and I was getting pulled down into his garbage too. It was exhausting for months and months and I think I am finally letting go. I just don’t care about his garbage anymore and am letting him deal with his own side of the street and honestly I feel like a weight has lifted( especially not analysing every single little thing) and just focusing on me. As a very newbie to this whole thing don’t waste your time or energy overthinking his every move or action. Honestly who even knows what your H is thinking I bet he even doesn’t know. Get some boundaries up. Oh my gosh when I had no boundaries it was horrible. H basically ran the show and because I was being super critical and analysing everything I let him do whatever he wanted and I did absolutely everything in as far as chores and kids. Gosh was that a mistake. Get some solid boundaries up( he will sulk that’s for sure and get angry) but honestly you don’t deserve to be treated like this and be made to feel paranoid
In as far as the XW and what’s going on there I have zero advice there sorry. Hopefully someone else does. It sounds like he’s living a bit or the best life at the moment and the best of both worlds. Maybe you need to throw a spanner in the works and not be his standby
M:41 H:48 T:20. M:16.5 BD: 15/12/22 -moved out 17/3/2023
Just wondering whether someone would tell me how to put the quotes in boxes so there is separation between quote and what I say?
Certainly.
The quote command is:
Code
[quote=Poster]Text[/quote]
Poster is what what will be displayed in the title “Originally Posted by Poster”.
The text is contents of the quote box.
I personally like to copy/paste the text I wish to quote, so I type the quote commands with the poster name.
Another method is to press <Quote> button under the post which will populate the “Quick Reply” dialog box with the entire post, bookended with the quote command - both quote and /quote. However, it is a bit cumbersome if you aren’t wanting to actual quote everything, and the have to delete a bunch.
Interestingly, another good use of the <Quote> button is it shows all the embedded commands. Bold, italic, underline, color, and so on.
If you try the <Quote> button on this post you’ll see some of them. Example of text face in the preceding paragraph and some quotes below.
Quote
A quote with no Poster’s name.
Originally Posted by DnJ
I personally like to copy/paste the text I wish to quote
Originally Posted by DnJ
Nested quotes too.
Originally Posted by DnJ
I personally like to copy/paste the text I wish to quote
<Use Full Editor> is another option as well. There is a quoting icon which inserts the quote command syntax, then just paste the text in between. The full editor also has icons for the various type faces, color, and such too.
Hope that helps.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you so much for your encouragement and advice. With boundaries (when I know where I have to set them which is a work in progress), I used to say I was going to set a boundary (which then triggered anger from H). I now just set them without saying anything to protect myself and worry about H’s reaction later.
The trouble I have is knowing when I need to set them and I’ve realised it’s when I feel uncomfortable in any way shape or form and then knowing what boundaries to set.
I really appreciate you pointing out not to overthink and what advice Kind18 gave to you. It’s just a waste of energy.
I am keen to keeping reading what is going on with you to learn more there too.
I do hope your sitch improves
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Yesterday, I very lovingly texted H about us being autonomous with our ‘Private’ money and not having to disclose what we spend it on. I said in the text that having to rely on me to dish out money was emasculating for H. I told him I hate it and want him to be more independent. I ended up in this sitch with money to help him free up time and because I was doing the Wedding budget. Later on that night, I rang him (old habit) and he was short with me and hung up. I rang him again (old habit), but this time, I very gently but consistently asked him why he was short. H, told me because of the way I was talking about money this morning. It was an old habit of me to question why he wanted to do things differently and then I realised and sent him a loving text about how we should be autonomous. H told me it was such a loving text and thanked me for it and then I backed up again what I said on the phone and also said that I wanted him to be in control of his own matters. We ended up having a great phone conversation.
The breakthrough is this and it is a revelation. When H and I met, he used to tell me about how XW was bossy and used to scream at him all the time and how they argued all the time and in front of the Skids etc. They got married for other reasons than love. Won’t go into it. Eventually, they had kids. H has said to me at times that he feels he has to do things for XW because she has power and leverage. I used to think to myself how ridiculous. However, H started standing up for himself and our R and XW alienated H and I from the Skids a few years back and now he has contact with all of them and it’s because he is complying to XW. XW has tried just to alienate me from 2 of them, but I’m now (very patiently) having contact with them again.
Instead of seeing this as Stockholm Syndrome which I now believe it is, I just thought H was doing these things because he wanted to be with XW and wanted to Cake Eat. I think H is so traumatised still with what happened with alienation and how he gets punished that he believes he has respect and fondness for her. I could never work out why he would ring his sister and complain about XW, then defend XW to me. It’s always been so bloody confusing. In actual fact he is scared of her and won’t admit it to me because he is embarrassed and feels emasculated. SIL used to say all the time, H is not in love with XW, he just wants to see his Skids. Since our wedding, XW has consistently (nearly every weekend) tried to infiltrate our lives with her demands (very cleverly), even to the point where I think she is DBing because she has been very, very sweet to H. However, I heard her on the phone to SD and she screamed at SD in front of H and I not knowing I was listening.
Meanwhile, I have not helped at all!!! I have thought that because H says ‘yes’ to XW that he is fond of her and if only I’m more like her, then he will have respect for me more. Not that I’m anything like her, but I have nagged him about the sitch and cried and screamed and made him feel so guilty (not wanting to), and not realising that he fell in love with me for me being me. Oh God, I have been doing some things which have not helped the sitch at all and now I believe, H is sort of in this Learned Helplessness state where he feels like there is no one he can turn to anymore (I used to be the soft landing) that he might as well be doing what XW wants.
So, up until I found DB, life was crap for both of us, because I was reacting and barking up the wrong tree. Since though, My 180’s have been helping, and me detaching with as much love as I can muster.
Tomorrow I have this sitch where H feels he ‘has’ to go with XW to sign paperwork for SD. It has made me so angry and I really don’t want H to be with her. This is what I’m now going to say to him very gently and lovingly, ‘H, I would prefer if you took your own car to sign the paperwork as it makes me feel uncomfortable you going in the same car with XW. Of course it’s up to you to do what you feel you ‘need’ to do!’ I wont push the issue and I will do this when we are not too tired or hungry. If he chooses to go with her, I won’t chastise him nor say anything other than ‘okay well I’m going off to do this and I will be back later!’ And stay away for a while for my own sanity.
This last year, I used to think that I needed to shy away from spending time with H and the Skids to give H room to do what he needed to do with XW. Now, I realise I don’t have to shy away, I just need to be there very quietly and consistently in the background to support H while setting boundaries for myself, but giving him support to have confidence in his own decision making and choices. I didn’t realise how emasculated H was before I met him and I haven’t helped him for a good while neither. The Skids really are his hook with her and she knows it. Currently, I do think H believes he has a lot of respect and admiration for her while he feels helpless. It helps me to realise and believe what he says to SIL that he does not love her and just wants to see the Skids. I will definitely continue my DBing. It is really difficult to know what the 180’s will be all the time because there are so many of them, but I do believe I’m now on the right track.
I wonder how many other husbands and wives are suffering Stockholm Syndrome with X’s? I really believe the behaviour of someone suffering from Stockholm is similar to someone having an affair. Both are in a fog. I’m now researching on how to help someone suffering from it and what to do. H has really responded to me being very gentle in tone of voice. I volunteer for a Helpline and I’m now treating H with the same care as someone who is calling for help.
What a Godsend this site is!
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Just to further add, in my sitch, I have to be very reliable, dependable and consistently be there in the background to build up trust with H to help bring him back into the M. I suppose that is my 180 as I used to try and avoid H in difficult situations by not coming and having an excuse not to be with him for instance and all that did was show H that was not to be relied upon and not to be trusted. I will no longer avoid his Skids.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
I really, really need help!!!! Just reading back through my last posts and what a load of crap I wrote. I’ve decided I’m in a very bleak situation. I really need advice.
The latest is… for a few months, I thought my H was back in the marriage after doing some 180 stuff and a lot of the things I tried worked. A fortnight ago, H and I had to go to a party held by my SS and XW was there as well as other Skids and SIL and her H. It was extremely awkward because H couldn’t stop wanting to be around XW. He was attentive to me but his body language was always turned to her. He made excuses to sit at her table and wouldn’t even finish eating lunch with me. SIL who claims she has never liked XW sat with XW most of the day with her H. At one point all four of them were sitting together. I tried not to react but I walked out of the party (what I thought was discreetly) with H following me. I cried and said it was hurtful watching them all interact as old friends particularly when SIL said she didn’t like XW. I was just so sad. H even wanted me to stand next to him at one point so XW wouldn’t interact with him in front of me. So very confusing. It turns out he wanted me to stand beside him because he was scared XW would reveal conversations they had been having. SIL spent 10 mins with me and that was it. She had been very quiet the week running up and brushed me off in a phone call prior to the event.
Prior to the event, I asked H if he would be by my side to make a statement that we were united. He did sometimes and the rest of the time sat at table with XW and SD, SIL and H. After the event all was quiet at home and we snuggled on the couch. I didn’t bring anything up and refused to talk when H wanted to. The next day, H tried to pick a fight with me and I tried very hard not to react. He then asked me to leave and go home. We are LATS. I didn’t say or do anything to provoke it. I went home and then he called to say SIL thought I was pathetic because I was upset that no one talked to me. Anyhow… H and XW were just so familiar with each other. More than ever. I was pleasant to XW, asked a few questions and she was receptive. I thought I did okay considering what I was up against.
The next day after I went home, I decided to call XW to somehow connect. I don’t know what came over me but I’m glad I did. XW very innocently told me how wonderful H has been with her in the last few months with certain things relating to SS and how they talk all the time—not everyday but maybe twice a week. I was gobsmacked because I asked H if they spoke to each other a few times and he said no. I told her that H didn’t ever tell me that they spoke and she was seemingly surprised (maybe a little smug). She told me that she relies on him for support with the kids and I asked her if she had a man would she rely on H as much as she did and she said no. I started crying and told her I felt like a third wheel in my marriage and that her and H are treating each other like they are still married and it is affair like. She said they are not getting physical and I explained to her that there are all types of affairs and she realised that there are. She then told me that she doesn’t rely on H as much as she did before him and I got together. They were separated for about 5 years before we met. He then told me that she misses the company at the end of the day. I cried like a baby in front of her and she was quite empathetic and told me that she was way over him and that she didn’t want to go back there. We talked about being friends and got off the phone having a bit of respect for each other and genuine fondness. I did see a side of her which was very soft and caring and maybe she understood what it was like for me. She said that she would include me in some parenting with H and her. I then realised that H had picked the fight and told me to go home the next day after SS’s party because XW told me he had called and they talked and talked about SS’s party.
I am so angry with H. We then had another Family function a week later, No XW but SIL and her H. They were both frosty towards me. Step MIL was awful to me. My Dad went to hospital that week and they really didn’t care too much about what had happened. H was relatively loving toward me and so were the Skids, until SD was alone with H and I and then he started triangulating and started becoming cold towards me. I had to go early the next morning and we said our goodbyes as H stayed in bed. It was very early. In the meantime, he has picked more fights. He lied to me this weekend gone about something that I knew he called XW about. I know he has been talking to XW. H and SIL are bad mouthing me. SIL is gossiping to Step MIL. The only good news is that the Skids have all been very loving towards me. XW… I feel like I believe what she is saying. I know I talked dribble in my posts. I just want it to be all well. I feel like my H and SIL are ganging up on me aside from H absolutely lying to me about his contact with XW. I have laid very low since and gone grey with H. If anyone is out there. Please reply. Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
You’ve caught H in many lies regarding contacting XW. Some, even mid-text. You could see the screen reflected in his glasses. And H still denied it.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Is this normal, the going back and forth between M and OW?
With H and XW having kids together, some contact is inevitable. However, it seems to be much more than meeting during drop offs. By the way, what is their custody schedule?
H bouncing back and forth between being married to you and being around XW is not a healthy dynamic. And I know you suspect an EA at the very least, maybe even more.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I’m so tired of trying to point out how wrong this contact is. Now that I don’t, it is getting worse, but I don’t want to stop the runaway train of the A so it has a chance to implode.
Pointing out how wrong it is, or trying to get H to change, will just push him further away. Obviously you don’t need to go along with H and XW’s views, you let go.
You didn’t break him, therefore you can’t fix him.
Go gray with H. Implement boundaries on his disrespectful behaviours towards you.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I decided to call XW to somehow connect.
Be careful of XW. I realize you feel you and she connected from your phone call with her. However…
Originally Posted by KangaB
His EW won’t leave him alone and has tried different tactics over the years from yelling and screaming to sending him photos of her and his kids when they were toddlers, to texting both of us in tears that she is all alone to inviting herself to Christmas with IL’s…
You know the history of her behaviours and actions to engage H. I’d proceed cautiously with her.
Focus on you and your life. (Shift the focus off of H, and/or XW). Enjoy actives. Do some forgotten hobbies. GAL. And keep moving forward.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Interesting question and thank you for replying. I’m not actually sure what I’m expecting to happen! I will give this some thought. Not only am I to believe none of the hurtful, nasty stuff H says, but also the nice stuff? Would someone or you clarify? H tells me he loves me, he’s never been happier… he’s very tactile. At the same time he is lying to my face! It’s so confusing.
I realise too that saying grey, I meant going dark. I am trying to do this and then being upbeat and attentive when I do have contact that I’m not (for the most part) initiating.
H just tries to keep picking fights with me at the moment. I just got off the phone to him wanting to talk about his problems. He harkened back to a time in his life where he was rich and successful in a different country with XW and how it was the best time of his life. I’m not even going to try and figure this out. He is disrespecting me and casting me aside as his wife because he is not ‘happy’.
Anyhow… I want to GAL, but I’m exhausted from work stuff and I haven’t been that well in the last 5 days and not once has H asked how I was feeling. Pretty sad. Just a thought, I went back to doing 180’s just in the last few days and he has being treating me worse. So maybe something is working.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Thanks so much for your reply. They never had a formal custody schedule. At the moment SD is living with her M full time and SD sees her D when she can. It used to be that H was raising the Skids full time since they were little and they would go to their M’s on weekends. SS1 and SS2 are in their 20’s now. SD still in her teens. I realise just in the last few days that H is pursuing XW much more that XW and what it used to be. She did try all sorts of tricks. Now she know she probably doesn’t have to. I think she has moved on somewhat, but is enjoying the attention. Whereas H just wants to have the contact with her outside of our marriage.
I know that I need to be cautious around XW. I don’t need to be in her life or have hers in mine believe me. I did get some closure though from the conversation which has helped me to come out of denial and realise that H is my problem. No one else is—not SIL, not anyone. And yes… Let go!! I can’t fix him. I can clean up my side of the street—I get it. I’m tired of it. I went back to old patterns and behaviours. I got lazy basically. I have been setting boundaries as stated in Cadet’s reply. Oh it’s awful—the reactions. When do the reactions stop? Once I get over my illness, I will try to GAL. I’ve got so lost in all of this.
The hardest thing is doing the 180’s, going dark and GAL when he comes back into the marriage monetarily. I get blindsided by the closeness and smacked in the head when he is gone again.
What makes them become rigorously honest with themselves? I feel like I’m being played. However, I am coming out of denial with it all and accepting that this is the way it is for now.
I screenshot pearls of wisdom from the forums and read them back. It’s so amazing to have this to depend upon to learn what to do. It’s an extremely lonely process. Hopefully I will get the gist of replying to some other posts. I feel I don’t have anything to give away at the moment.
Glad to be here.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Btw, when my envelope is flashing, I go to check to see if I have mail and I don’t have any messages or I’m not signed up to receive them—maybe?? Would someone help me with this?
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
This forum is set up for anonymity with messaging and emailing being disabled. The envelope icon does flash for everyone, though there is nothing in anyone’s inbox. Just a weird little default of the software.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Not only am I to believe none of the hurtful, nasty stuff H says, but also the nice stuff?
Yep.
Believe nothing they say, and only half of what they do.
They are not (well usually not ) some pathological liar. These are folks who are letting their feelings rule their thoughts and actions. And feelings are fleeting. As quick as a feeling can and will change, so does their “reason”. They aren’t so much lying, as much as their “truth” is just so malleable to their current whim. And yes, at other times, they will outright lie to your face.
The really sad part for such a person, is when they start believing their truths/lies. They’ll quickly become lost in the weeds, and it’s a heck of a struggle to find their way back.
Hence, believe nothing they say.
The nasty stuff H says: It’s how he feels in that moment. Not actual truth. Not something you should take as gospel and believe.
The nice stuff H says: It’s how he feels in that moment. Not actual truth. Not something you should take as gospel and believe.
Actions speak louder than words. H’s behaviours will yield better indication of where he is at. H’s pursuing XW at the party says more truth than his exuberant professing of hardly ever contacting her. Thing is, he might actually believe his mixed up reality. Probably does. Taking their behaviours / actions at half value is again, because they will enact based upon their fleeting feelings too.
The underlying reality of H’s life will become apparent more in his long term demonstrated behaviours than his mere words. Long term. Individual interactions are just one questionable data point.
Anyhow, this why shifting your focus off H on onto yourself is so beneficial. Watching H for any small movements will drive your bonkers. And you’ll find all kinds of indicators that just won’t add up.
We all require a certain amount of understanding before we can or will let go the rope. Hopefully this has helped you with that.
I am glad that your conversation with XW provided some closure and helped you.
Thank you for the custody information. I figured that the step kids would be near adults by now, and drop off and pick up would be a nonissue. Should be far less needed face to face interaction between H and XW regarding adult children. SD being a teen will have a certain amount of school, driving lessons, visiting, and such to sort out. The boys in their twenties can easily see Dad or Mom as they see fit.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I can’t fix him. I can clean up my side of the street—I get it. I’m tired of it. I went back to old patterns and behaviours. I got lazy basically. I have been setting boundaries as stated in Cadet’s reply. Oh it’s awful—the reactions. When do the reactions stop?
You cannot control H, only yourself. You control your thoughts, actions, and reactions.
Boundaries are for disrespectful behaviour. And they will tested. H will smash against your boundaries, so ensure they are rock solid. That means enacting your enforcement of your boundary.
Boundaries are for you. What you will, or will not tolerate. They aren’t some mechanism for trying to push H along his path, or heal him. Like you wisely said, you can’t fix him.
Yes, H will not like boundaries. And he will likely react negatively, like a child being told no. Temper tantrums, anger, and such. Fear not, stick to your guns. His reactions will lessen when he realizes he cannot get away with it, when he realizes you aren’t backing down. Again, his realizing is beyond your control, you just do for you and let him thrash about.
That being said, any physical violence - call the police! He can stomp, yell, get mad, whatever, yet he better not cross that line.
Most often boundary enforcement is simply removing oneself from their presence. Hanging up the phone or leaving the room when they start swearing at you, as an example. You control you.
Originally Posted by KangaB
What makes them become rigorously honest with themselves? I feel like I’m being played. However, I am coming out of denial with it all and accepting that this is the way it is for now.
Being honest with themselves speaks directly to how they are crafting their world view based upon their emotions. Thing is, some feel like they are being rigorously honest. Example, they feel like they no longer love us, and they will never again.
Major life decisions made based upon emotions often leads to regrets.
People can twist reality about, assert their feelings and weave they world accordingly. However, reality can only be twisted or bent so far, and then it snaps back. Life provides plenty of feedback. One chooses to listen or ignore it.
Most people will not make such life altering changes, heck not even smaller changes, until the hurt of not doing so becomes intolerable. People usually need to hit rock bottom before really changing.
I’m glad you can see your positive progress. Keep moving forward.
And yes, I find this forum to be pretty amazing too.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
The hardest thing is doing the 180’s, going dark and GAL when he comes back into the marriage monetarily. I get blindsided by the closeness and smacked in the head when he is gone again.
Oh my gosh yes… that was sound advice from DnJ. Everything you said DnJ is absolutely what is going on. I thought I was the only one going through this. Seems H is almost Textbook. H changes his feelings depending on the wind direction.
Only just now I have had the strangest encounter with him and I took the bait badly. I text him this morning to say I will call at lunchtime as I’m not picking up the phone in the mornings like I usually do. I’m making myself very busy, too busy to talk (which most of the time I am. I just take calls from H). I also said I have a phone app (meaning phone appointment), he text and said “phone app??” So I clarified. Five mins later I get a text that just said “P”. I always thought P was a cheeky, flirty gesture. So I text back with “P? Or was that meant for someone else?” And he wrote back “meant for someone else and I told them I need to P.” I text “that’s intimate” and he said “I didn’t want them to watch me pee!”
So after an hour or so I rang back and we made small talk and I promised to myself I wouldn’t ask what the texts meant, but of course I did. I tried to ask in a teasing way. He got so angry and said “I’m so sick of you accusing me and thinking I’m having an affair… I’m sick of it!”… And hung up. He then text me how awful I am for accusing him of having an affair. I haven’t asked him whether he has been having an affair with XW for well over a few years.
Did he just project and expose something? It makes me so confused. I just feel gaslighted. Stupidly I text and said “well if I had of text those exact words, you would have asked me in the same way what it all meant!” He just kept replying “I’m sick of you accusing me!” Which I haven’t and never suggested.
Here I’m thinking I’m setting terrific boundaries. He was sending abusive texts the other night because I didn’t answer him in the right way. So I just went dark. Eventually he apologised and I then felt I could be in contact with him up until this morning with me still going dark. For those who are just reading, H and I spend 4 nights together and 3 apart. Lately he has been lessening the time together—hmmmmmm. All of it is just making feel paranoid and downright crazy. I just know he baited me so he could go off at me to push me away. Would anyone else agree that it was projection?
Meanwhile…
Just hopped off the phone to my counsellor as well and she has absolutely agreed with everything that you have suggested DnJ and Cadet. C thinks I should not at all trust XW and have involvement with her and thinks she is just enmeshed as H is.
Here are the things that I’ve done this week as 180’s and boundaries:
- Lessen contact with H’s family (going dark). FIL in hospital and have sent a short text to him and SIL. Usually I would ring SIL and offer my support and try and call FIL - I’m keeping busy, catching up on jobs around my home (I work from home) - Resting a lot (as my work is at times very physical and the stress of this makes me exhausted) - Hanging up on H when he starts to get angry. No trying to fix him and cajole him out so we can talk about essential things like money. Just let the chips fall as they may - Not doing any work for him like managing finances like I normally would - Getting on here and posting - Not talking to SIL about H - Not phoning him, but letting him contact me - Really trying not to react - Talking low and soft and cheerful - Not reacting to him talking with the same accent as his XW and his different pronunciation of words etc. This drives me soooo mad. I used to say something and it would lead into arguments.
C thinks that at some point there will be a crisis and I agree. We both think that H and XW will ‘accidentally’ sleep together or something of the effect. I feel this is only the beginning of their enmeshment and I’m so disappointed that I reacted to his stupid text messages this morning because I feel it was a set up.
I actually thinks it’s getting to H—all this lying and double life stuff. He says he is really unhappy (but very quick to point out that is not unhappy with me). I say [censored]. I just can’t trust him and there is a very small part of me that wants to believe that he is not lying to me. I just can’t imagine XW telling me all about the contact they’re having behind my back as lies. She doesn’t have to lie to me and in fact, I’m sure it would be a great satisfaction for her to tell me the truth as it puts in a position of power.
I’ve decided to stand in my marriage for at least a year and declared that conversations with XW and finding out H is lying to me as the official BD.
Kanga
Last edited by DnJ; 09/08/2304:02 AM. Reason: Censored swear word.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
I know I have to get out of their way to hit rock bottom… I told my C they were both selfish [censored]! It’s so hard to get out of the way. GOW to GAL—that is my goal. Btw, I live in a very isolated area where I don’t see a lot of people. Does anyone have any recommendations on GAL with no opportunities to socialise. I do Karate once a week. Actually… no, I can visit neighbours. I just want to show H, I have a dazzling life without him. That’s just my pride.
Thanks DnJ for letting me know about my flashing envelope. It’s a cute defect that makes me feel I’ve got mail.
Kanga 😊
Last edited by DnJ; 09/08/2304:04 AM. Reason: Censored swear word.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
I live in a very isolated area where I don’t see a lot of people.
Oh, sounds wonderful.
I love small town living on my ten acre plot surrounded by farm land. My closest neighbour is almost half mile from me. I much prefer the country lifestyle over the city.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Does anyone have any recommendations on GAL with no opportunities to socialize.
Go for a walk or hike. Although saunter more captures the “smell the roses” tenet / lifestyle I seek.
Gardening, golf, do a puzzle, star gazing, biking, fly a kite (ain’t no city folk flying a kite in their backyard), cut the grass, baking, oh wait deep fryer (yes, yes, yes, mmmm), get out your remote controlled gas powered 1/8th scale monster truck… err, that last one is mine. Maybe your’s too. R/C is pretty fun! (Deep frying, so tasty. Lol)
Dig out those old hobbies you put away during life, marriage, work, and such. Try ‘em. It’s surprising how fun some of them still are.
And laugh. It’s ok to to still have fun.
Have a great fry day. (Get it? Friday)
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
He then text me how awful I am for accusing him of having an affair.
You likely hit the nail squarely on the head since he is protesting so much. Again how do you know that he is lying - his lips are moving.
SO
Now that you have this information what is gained from continuing to act on it?
It is best for you to go as dark as possible and STOP interacting with him.
Quote
Here are the things that I’ve done this week as 180’s and boundaries:
- Lessen contact with H’s family (going dark). FIL in hospital and have sent a short text to him and SIL. Usually I would ring SIL and offer my support and try and call FIL - I’m keeping busy, catching up on jobs around my home (I work from home) - Resting a lot (as my work is at times very physical and the stress of this makes me exhausted) - Hanging up on H when he starts to get angry. No trying to fix him and cajole him out so we can talk about essential things like money. Just let the chips fall as they may - Not doing any work for him like managing finances like I normally would - Getting on here and posting - Not talking to SIL about H - Not phoning him, but letting him contact me - Really trying not to react - Talking low and soft and cheerful - Not reacting to him talking with the same accent as his XW and his different pronunciation of words etc. This drives me soooo mad. I used to say something and it would lead into arguments.
Just a quick update on my sitch, experimenting with going dark. Last night H text me to ask me if I was going to stop not trusting him and stop accusing him of things he hasn’t done (which I never did). And the nerve of him when he is lying to me! I didn’t reply to any of it and simply went through the evening reading and going to bed. Normally, I would feel the need to reply and justify. Usually, when we are apart, we talk for a few hours of a night on the phone and say goodnight when things are good and he is in the M. I have been going to bed early all week and ignored his texts even if he saying goodnight.
This morning I was feeling low and obsessed with it all so I got reading on the Beginner’s links and cheat sheets and read them all. I decided to validate his comments via text and wrote:
I am sorry that what was said made you angry (when I asked about his baited texts from yesterday teasing me about flirting with someone)… It was uncalled for to ask questions over some silly texts. I really hope the sale goes well today.
Here is my win with going dark and validating (a text from H)
So do I. Thanks x
He has not signed off on a kiss with texts for years except when he is saying goodnight and in the M.
Who hoo!
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
DnJ so thankful for the heads up. I get so consumed by this, I really forget all the options around me and I do have a lot. There is plenty to do and see. I will get there. I don’t know about anyone else, but the stress has left me lacking inspiration and imagination. I’m a former Creative professional now farmer and I have been so consumed and lost my Creative mojo. This I have to accept for now.
I realise that yes I need to GAL, but first things first for me is rest and recovery and my body and mind will ease their way into being energised.
One thing I have done this week is cleaned out all my Kitchen cupboards and pantry and making way for a new set of Cooking appliances (including air fryer) as both my oven and microwave blew up last weekend. Mysterious Spirit of the Universe stuff.
Another thing I’m doing is ramping up my spirituality. I’m journaling (I was always dead against it). I have discovered that for me journaling is taking notes on the iPhone. I also am praying a lot. That’s my way of getting out of the way.
Don’t know about anyone else, but I get hooked on the threads here and love reading the situations. Wonderful concept—thanks Michele.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Cadet please keep telling me his lips are moving that is how I know he is lying. And keep bonking me over the head with it.
I don’t want to be in denial anymore. I start to feel sorry for H at times and accept crappy behaviour. If I keep remembering what it was like when he first pursued me right in the beginning, he was extremely capable of doing and saying the right things. And as hard as it is to admit, (ruminating the words of XW from last week when she told me how wonderful and supportive H has been to her recently), he is freaking doing that with another woman!!!
For God’s sakes… I need the honesty and the pinches on the arm from you all. Kind18 has pinched me a couple of times.
Kanga (Queen of Denial)
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Lets imagine you are soo busy this weekend having fun that you forgot you had a phone. Sometime Monday you remember that you had a phone. You look at it and see all kinds of messages from H. Then before you respond, something more important comes up, so you set your phone down and start doing the important thing.
Everything is more important than interacting with H. He has fired you as his W.
IF he shows up at your house to check on you, you validate his emotional state, most likely ANGER.
You STFU, and listen.
These are your validating statements: W, "You sound angry." W, "I understand you feel that way" W, "I bet it is hard to feel that way"
H:"Why didn't you answer my texts?" W"I was busy"
Be the first to end the convos or interaction: W:"I have something important to do. Goodby"
W:"I am meeting someone in 10 minutes, I have to go" H:"Who?" W:"You don't know them"
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Thank you soooo much for the great advice. I had to look up STFU!!! And yes I have. 💪🏼💪🏼 And one of the great things is that you led me to ‘Why Men Love Bitches’, Sherry Arcov. I already have this and I read it cover to cover yesterday. Boy, it propelled me, but this morning I’m teetering.
I bought this book in the beginning of our relationship because I honestly couldn’t work out why H was so submissive to XW and why she was powerful to him. XW was a bully to him and she would scream at him—it was awful and then they would fight and argue. Why the heck I stayed in this situation when I found out he wasn’t divorce, only separated. It is one of my greatest shames and look where it has led to. They just haven’t had closure, nor it seems do they want to and I’ve allowed myself to be taken along on the worst journey of my life.
Back to the book. I only took note of the first half of the book and skimmed the rest because we weren’t in a long-term relationship. What I remembered yesterday is that I did apply these techniques and transformed myself and learned a lot about being attractive to H. Consequently, XW had lost her power and she started to become desperate and started sending us texts that she was so lonely. She would come around and cry because our relationship had strengthened and she had no power anymore—until now (and it is partly my fault). I have lost the techniques along the way—obviously, because that is why I’m here and I have become a doormat. I have now highlighted text in this book to add strength to my 180’s.
Is it ever too late to save a M?
Meanwhile, back to RtC’s recommendations on enjoying my weekend ignoring my phone…
As H and I normally catch up on weekends, H assumed (after treating me poorly all week because I set boundaries) that he would come over. H sent a text and said “Would you like me to come over or what?” I told H, I was having a girly night in and if he wanted to come across he could come with me to have fish and chips at our favourite spot at the beach (where he proposed to me). I didn’t even think about it, it was just somewhere I wanted to go because the swell was huge. My invite generated a rage from him because he saw me as ‘ho hum’ about it all and seeing him. He told me he never wants to see that shitty place again and find someone else to take there. There were many more texts of rage and spew and I answered with (sparingly), “I’m sorry you’re feeling that way…!” etc. One of the momentous texts I got was, “I don’t need you anyway, I have others in my life that think I’m important!”
I tried so hard to leave my phone and get on with it and the Rage texts went on and on into the night. I eventually told H (in a nutshell) that I don’t care for his raging anymore… I’m not some POS that is going to be treated with disrespect and if you don’t have anything nice to say please don’t contact me anymore. He raged for another two texts asking me why I don’t to divorce him. That statement or the equivalent is one of H’s go to’s when he is out of the M.
My question is… with all this spittle, does it mean my boundaries really are working and is he trying to disclose his guilt over EA contact with XW?
I’m not sure why I need to know, I think it would just give me a little bit more confidence that I’m changing the dynamic. I’m sure the readers are nodding yes, but I can’t see the forest.
I’m determined today to have NC with H whatsoever. I have to contact him tomorrow about financial matters.
Oh I need more wisdom. Many thanks to those who have already offered it.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Just to clarify fish and chips with H was to be tomorrow, girly night in the night before. 😅
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
The short answer is no BUT you also have to be willing to let it go in order to do so.
Originally Posted by KangaB
As H and I normally catch up on weekends, H assumed (after treating me poorly all week because I set boundaries) that he would come over. H sent a text and said “Would you like me to come over or what?” I told H, I was having a girly night in and if he wanted to come across he could come with me to have fish and chips at our favourite spot at the beach (where he proposed to me). I didn’t even think about it, it was just somewhere I wanted to go because the swell was huge. My invite generated a rage from him because he saw me as ‘ho hum’ about it all and seeing him. He told me he never wants to see that shitty place again and find someone else to take there. There were many more texts of rage and spew and I answered with (sparingly), “I’m sorry you’re feeling that way…!” etc. One of the momentous texts I got was, “I don’t need you anyway, I have others in my life that think I’m important!”
Sounds like you need to step up the boundaries on yourself and quit engaging so much.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I tried so hard to leave my phone and get on with it and the Rage texts went on and on into the night. I eventually told H (in a nutshell) that I don’t care for his raging anymore… I’m not some POS that is going to be treated with disrespect and if you don’t have anything nice to say please don’t contact me anymore. He raged for another two texts asking me why I don’t to divorce him. That statement or the equivalent is one of H’s go to’s when he is out of the M.
Let's flip the script... instead of asking your H to take care of you - how could you have taken care of yourself better during this. Turning off the phone? Blocking his texts for the night? What prevents you from doing so? Why are his needs more important than you be spoken to w/ respect?
Originally Posted by KangaB
My question is… with all this spittle, does it mean my boundaries really are working and is he trying to disclose his guilt over EA contact with XW?
1. No. It means he can't regulate his emotions and is spewing all over you 2. Boundaries are not for him. They are for YOU. As long as they are the him - they will fail. It is true that boundaries will change a dynamic of a relationship but you have to stand firm in the decisions that best serve you. If thats no text - raging... make it so. It's time to take back your power.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I’m determined today to have NC with H whatsoever. I have to contact him tomorrow about financial matters.
This is a good first step. Try holding yourself to your boundaries before you expect others to do the same.
(( KB ))
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
I’m am going to answer your questions. I really had to think about them and what you’ve written. I never thought I was manipulative but I’ve been thinking things over a lot and I realise a lot of my communication has been nagging (even thought I talk lowly, it’s still nagging), reacting and probably thinking I’m setting boundaries but actually doing so to punish. Without meaning to. I just haven’t really got the hang of looking after myself and putting my needs first and being nice about it. Like you all say here—that seems counter-intuitive. Oh this is making me squirm but I’m set on cleaning up my side.
Your answers:
Turning off the phone? Blocking his texts for the night? What prevents you from doing so? Why are his needs more important than you be spoken to w/ respect?
I don’t turn off my phone as it’s my main source of communication between my elderly parents and me. I have not had the guts to block texts actually because of the reaction I think I MAY get. I’m being really honest here and it’s uncomfortable to recognise this, and I suppose it’s been such a habit to put his needs first—growing up in a Patriarchal family situation. I tend to lose myself in worshipping a man when I’ve fallen. Mimicking a trait that I see in my mother. It doesn’t get her anywhere neither.
Oh boy, I’m trying though. I must admit I’m slightly enjoying the shift in dynamic as I’m setting my new boundaries, even though they are supposed to be for me. I feel 1/1000th of what I used to be like in the beginning of our courtship when I had some sass.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
An update on what happened yesterday. So… I’ve been trying to set boundaries (lessening my contact to have a good rest, not answering texts nor picking up the phone too quickly). In fact, I stuck to my plan by not contacting H at all yesterday.
And then, I get a knock at the door, I look down and there is a baby bid wrapped in a T-shirt and as I walk down through my garden I see H walking off to his car which was parked at the entrance of my driveway. I yelled out to him to say hi and he explained why he was there. It was a manipulation on his part to check up on me and to make me feel guilty for not wanting our regular time together. H just isn’t acting right at the moment. Normally, I would give in and just ask him to come inside and then I know he would stay and then we would be back to ‘normal’ which was his plan. I started to ask him to come back and then I realised I was falling for an old pattern, so I let him go. I didn’t cause any of what he was doing. I didn’t chase after him, I didn’t text nor call. I let him go. Later, I eventually replied to his text and said goodnight without bringing up any of his odd behaviour, realising he already feels crappy about himself, why make it worse. Hooray, I think I learned something!
Today…
I needed to talk to H about financial matters and I was desperate to call him because it was pressing; but I didn’t. It was a concern of H’s; not mine and I decided to let him call me (I worked out that I need not be more concerned about his life than he is) and then I would bring up what I had to say. H eventually tried to bait me into an argument and I kept my cool. He then asked me 3 times if I wanted a divorce and I said no. He asked me if I was having an affair. He asked me if I had met someone. I reassured him—I told him no to all and that I was committed to our marriage. H told me he can’t work me out and I told him that I’m just needing and wanting some time to myself and rest after a huge couple of weeks. I told him I had to get off the phone. H got angry because I wanted to go. I stood firm and insisted that I had to go and I got off the phone regardless of how he felt. H then sent me texts telling me how much he loves me and how he can’t imagine being with anyone else etc. He told me he misses me etc.
My cautious take on all of this is the dynamic is shifting, I’m starting to refocus back onto me and H is noticing. I just got off the phone tonight with H (he called and I said I would call him back later which I did) and I noticed he has lost his XW’s accent. Truly amazing! Yay!
Okay, so now where to go from here? How do I keep the DBing and all that it entails and keep my communication going with H and keep the momentum going, even though he is STILL cake eating?
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
I’m am going to answer your questions. I really had to think about them and what you’ve written. I never thought I was manipulative but I’ve been thinking things over a lot and I realise a lot of my communication has been nagging (even thought I talk lowly, it’s still nagging), reacting and probably thinking I’m setting boundaries but actually doing so to punish. Without meaning to. I just haven’t really got the hang of looking after myself and putting my needs first and being nice about it. Like you all say here—that seems counter-intuitive. Oh this is making me squirm but I’m set on cleaning up my side.
For someone who has never set them - setting boundaries is going to feel like punishment. And it will mostly likely come with guilt. Some of that guilt will because of your H's reaction. He seems like a man child and I suspect will only up his manipulation. The more he tries... the more calm you become. Become the zen queen.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I don’t turn off my phone as it’s my main source of communication between my elderly parents and me. I have not had the guts to block texts actually because of the reaction I think I MAY get. I’m being really honest here and it’s uncomfortable to recognise this, and I suppose it’s been such a habit to put his needs first—growing up in a Patriarchal family situation. I tend to lose myself in worshipping a man when I’ve fallen. Mimicking a trait that I see in my mother. It doesn’t get her anywhere neither.
I applaud your honesty. That's hard work to look at why you behave the way you do. Even if it doesn't serve you now - there is a comfort-ability in your current situation. It's all you know - even if you hate it.
So what's the happy medium here. Both of my folks have had health issues in the past year. I have a setting on my phone that allows their calls to go through whilst blocking others whilst I sleep. Also - if you block H's number temporarily whilst he is raging... you will NEVER see what he texts or calls about in that rage. That would be a very good way to take care of your mental health when he throws a tantrum.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Oh boy, I’m trying though. I must admit I’m slightly enjoying the shift in dynamic as I’m setting my new boundaries, even though they are supposed to be for me. I feel 1/1000th of what I used to be like in the beginning of our courtship when I had some sass.
Good. Thats the point of boundaries. To know where YOU stop and your H begins.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I needed to talk to H about financial matters and I was desperate to call him because it was pressing; but I didn’t. It was a concern of H’s; not mine and I decided to let him call me (I worked out that I need not be more concerned about his life than he is) and then I would bring up what I had to say. H eventually tried to bait me into an argument and I kept my cool. He then asked me 3 times if I wanted a divorce and I said no. He asked me if I was having an affair. He asked me if I had met someone. I reassured him—I told him no to all and that I was committed to our marriage. H told me he can’t work me out and I told him that I’m just needing and wanting some time to myself and rest after a huge couple of weeks. I told him I had to get off the phone. H got angry because I wanted to go. I stood firm and insisted that I had to go and I got off the phone regardless of how he felt. H then sent me texts telling me how much he loves me and how he can’t imagine being with anyone else etc. He told me he misses me etc..
I'm happy you were able to stand your ground a little bit. It's very difficult when he pushes and acts like a baby. A couple of notes:
1. No more reaassuring him. He has fired you as his W so he needs to learn to regulate his emotions. Also it would be a good 180 for you.
2. Get off his rollercoaster. Find a way to end the conversation. If the call was about finances - keep the topic there. For example:
H. I miss you. KB. I understand. Let's continue to discuss financial situation. H. But you are being a jerk! KB. I understand you are frustrated. We still need to work out financial situation. H. But I don't want to... I want to deflect with blame or love bombing. KB. When you are ready to talk about financial situation - let me know. (Hangs up phone).
Do not engage until he agrees.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Okay, so now where to go from here? How do I keep the DBing and all that it entails and keep my communication going with H and keep the momentum going, even though he is STILL cake eating?
IMO - you need to keep your boundaries firm and even increase them. If it's not emergency - stop engaging with him. He's on a ride to figure all his Sh!t out and you don't need to buy the ticket.
Plus from what you are telling me - it's gonna be challenging to chose yourself when you were raised differently....
... so practice, practice, practice on choosing YOU.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
I have an update and I need some further help. Yesterday, I came across a function on my Phone Carrier app and found the Call usage from H’s phone. It has verified his EA with EW. There have been calls nearly everyday since before I started DBing and rang XW to talk to her. Some of these calls have been late at night and go for over an hour and certainly when I’m not there. H is still telling me he doesn’t talk to hardly anyone (even though I don’t bring it up) and he hasn’t mentioned XW at all. Since I have been DBing, the calls have lessened. There are still lots and the calls that I’m seeing are only the calls H is making to XW, not any from her. I have now ordered itemised calls for the last 12 months from our Phone carrier so I can collect evidence and verify what I’ve been suspecting for a long time to get some closure.
What do I do now with all this evidence? What now? Do I expose all of this?
I tried so hard last night to back away quietly while still being myself but H knew something was wrong and kept asking. He accused me of having an affair. He left today picking a fight and swearing at me because I didn’t want to be intimate and because I had shut down somewhat last night. I didn’t argue back and just let him go back to his place.
I’m relieved but devastated. I just knew it. I knew all of it and it’s great to finally know. I’m extremely sad. That part has finally come to an end, I don’t have to wonder anymore.
I’m sad because H has continued to lie to me since probably we were married, gaslighted me, picked fights and has XW that he is confiding in and supporting emotionally. WTF… not coping very well at the moment.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Hi Valeska thank you for taking the time to write. I’m looking into how to have my parents number available and block all others.
I’m continuing with the boundaries and I have been tested. As you can see from my above post, things have taken a turn again.
The hardest thing is doing this when H is asking for reassurance. So I found out after my boundary setting from last week. H had phoned XW and had a chat to her and then rang me and told me that he was thinking of going OS with XW and the kids back to her country for a visit to get a rise out of me. When I didn’t take the bait, he admitted he was trying to get a rise up of me. He then told me he needed reassurance that I loved him and that I wanted to be in the marriage. What the hell? I’m so confused by all of this.
So appreciative of the feedback.
Very lost today.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
After a night’s sleep, I’ve decided that I’m going to do nothing with the evidence. I realise that saying something to H will push him further away. I will continue with my DBing and wait it out. I’m confident in seeing that the phone calls have lessened, and lessened in duration that maybe the DBing is working because I haven’t nagged H about XW for a weeks and weeks now. The contact between him and her has been without any of my meddling. What is happening between them is of their own accord. I still feel betrayed and today, I can’t stop tearing up.
H is still accusing me of having an affair by sending ridiculous texts. I’m confident that H is projecting and the guilt is getting to him. He will never admit to anything if I push for it. H will tell me in his own time when he is back in the marriage.
Yesterday, I wanted to expose him and his lies but I kept reading the posts here, looking for the posts that apply the DB principles of not exposing affairs. I came to my senses as what good is it going to do with someone like H, who has suffered from guilt and shame and low self esteem most of his life and finds it difficult to be honest with himself.
At the moment, I’m keeping my distance from H and when I do need to communicate, I validate him (as much as he is ranting—he just wants to he heard and feel right). I made an effort this morning to let H know that I’m not going to fight with him anymore, I’m not going to try and change him in any way and I’m not going to leave him and that I love him. I will now get on with my day and continue to stay dark, set boundaries and try to have the best day to look after me.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
After a night’s sleep, I’ve decided that I’m going to do nothing with the evidence. I realise that saying something to H will push him further away. I will continue with my DBing and wait it out. I’m confident in seeing that the phone calls have lessened, and lessened in duration that maybe the DBing is working because I haven’t nagged H about XW for a weeks and weeks now. The contact between him and her has been without any of my meddling. What is happening between them is of their own accord. I still feel betrayed and today, I can’t stop tearing up.
Yes - what would you want to accomplish with exposure?
Knowledge is Power, you have it now dont give up your power by giving away your knowledge.
As usual this is not something that will resolve quickly- it is a marathon not a sprint
Cadet! Thank you… Yes I have the knowledge and without revealing it, it is power and I’m starting to use it more.
And this is how it’s working. So, it’s been a week since I posted and H had a dream last weekend that he was having an affair and how he felt terrible about it. Interestingly, I had found out in the dream and confronted him and he was devastated. When he told me about the dream, I asked him would he tell me if he did and he said yes!! It seems H is coming of denial!
Since Ive found the evidence, I have handed it over to my Higher Power and prayed about it. I’ve decided to be my usual, loving self around H, at the same time getting the hang of setting boundaries. When I know that H and XW have been in touch, I lay very low the next day. I make myself as unreachable as I possibly can.
Not only has H shared his affair dream with me, he also brought me flowers on the weekend. They were beautiful. I’m sure he did this for several reasons, guilt being one of them. I don’t care the reason why, it’s wonderful to have them because he used to bring me flowers a lot and doesn’t do it much anymore except when he has been mean and wants to make some sort of amends. H was very affectionate and helpful. He did some maintenance jobs around the house and farm. For over a year, he hasn’t really done a lot of that neither, he would usually pick a fight and want to leave. H didn’t do that. He stayed until it was time to go. H also did the same the weekend before.
This week he has kept up the Affair contact with XW and it hurts a lot. It’s not as bad as it was. Another thing that happened is that he rang me and cried because he is not happy in life. I have not heard him cry like he did for such a long time. It was great he was coming to me to share his pain. H got off the phone quickly when he revealed his pain, but even still, I took this as a positive. Interestingly, he rang XW not long after. I really believe the pain he feeling is because he is lying to me and he feels terrible.
As much as all of this hurts, like Cadet said, I have power now and I’m using it. I’m showing more interest in H which is a 180 for me, yet at times, doing my own thing in his company which is another 180. I don’t mention XW ever (another 180) and I’m praising and thanking H for all the good things he does and I’m vigilant about it (another 180). During the week when we are not together and especially when I know he has been talking to XW, I don’t answer his calls for the majority of the day and have great excuses as to why. H was supposed to call me late last which is a usual time, but he rang late. I didn’t answer and I text him to say goodnight and sleep well. I’m confident he was talking to XW as he rang her a few times yesterday. It hurts sooooo much.
Overall, this week I’ve been able to focus on my work more and sleep better. I’m letting go of the worry and the ‘what if’s’ and getting on with it as best I can.
To be frank, I have spent hours on the internet looking for ways on how to end affairs and a lot of what is being said is to confront your partner and sometimes the AP. I have done this so much in my M that it just brought them closer together. I cannot stress enough that the DB approach is effective, and really patience is the key. I accept and pray for all that is happening instead of reacting which is so hard to do. I have always lacked patience and am impulsive by nature.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
You are 100% correct about patience. It can be tough to want something to happen and to have to wait for it....whatever it is: the big D, reconcilication, or continued piecing back together of a relationship. Keep up the good work until that new found competence with patience creates more new habits around how you look at and experiencing things. For me, developing the level of patience I now have thanks to starting DBing 4-5 years ago feels so rewarding. It also helped to pick up a copy of MWD's Change Your Life and Everyone In it and actively work to practice the ideas in that book (still centered around how you can only control changes you make to yourself and THAT can lead others to change in response to the new/different you (much like you seem to be doing)! All the best, MrP.
Cadet! Thank you… Yes I have the knowledge and without revealing it, it is power and I’m starting to use it more.
And this is how it’s working. So, it’s been a week since I posted and H had a dream last weekend that he was having an affair and how he felt terrible about it. Interestingly, I had found out in the dream and confronted him and he was devastated. When he told me about the dream, I asked him would he tell me if he did and he said yes!! It seems H is coming of denial!
How is H coming out of it? It seems like he is willing to lie straight to your face... or am I missing something here.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Since Ive found the evidence, I have handed it over to my Higher Power and prayed about it. I’ve decided to be my usual, loving self around H, at the same time getting the hang of setting boundaries. When I know that H and XW have been in touch, I lay very low the next day. I make myself as unreachable as I possibly can.
I can see how this is a boundary as in it protects you and provides a little safe care.... but wouldn't the boundary be more of. "H.. if you decide to talk with XW... I am going to need to distance myself"
Originally Posted by KangaB
Not only has H shared his affair dream with me, he also brought me flowers on the weekend. They were beautiful. I’m sure he did this for several reasons, guilt being one of them. I don’t care the reason why, it’s wonderful to have them because he used to bring me flowers a lot and doesn’t do it much anymore except when he has been mean and wants to make some sort of amends. H was very affectionate and helpful. He did some maintenance jobs around the house and farm. For over a year, he hasn’t really done a lot of that neither, he would usually pick a fight and want to leave. H didn’t do that. He stayed until it was time to go. H also did the same the weekend before.
This week he has kept up the Affair contact with XW and it hurts a lot. It’s not as bad as it was. Another thing that happened is that he rang me and cried because he is not happy in life. I have not heard him cry like he did for such a long time. It was great he was coming to me to share his pain. H got off the phone quickly when he revealed his pain, but even still, I took this as a positive. Interestingly, he rang XW not long after. I really believe the pain he feeling is because he is lying to me and he feels terrible.
This feels like a little bit like cake eating to me.
Originally Posted by KangaB
As much as all of this hurts, like Cadet said, I have power now and I’m using it. I’m showing more interest in H which is a 180 for me, yet at times, doing my own thing in his company which is another 180. I don’t mention XW ever (another 180) and I’m praising and thanking H for all the good things he does and I’m vigilant about it (another 180). During the week when we are not together and especially when I know he has been talking to XW, I don’t answer his calls for the majority of the day and have great excuses as to why. H was supposed to call me late last which is a usual time, but he rang late. I didn’t answer and I text him to say goodnight and sleep well. I’m confident he was talking to XW as he rang her a few times yesterday. It hurts sooooo much.
Did I miss it somewhere that you were an avoidant wife? I feel like thee 180 is becoming less available so this feels a little contradictory.
Originally Posted by KangaB
To be frank, I have spent hours on the internet looking for ways on how to end affairs and a lot of what is being said is to confront your partner and sometimes the AP. I have done this so much in my M that it just brought them closer together. I cannot stress enough that the DB approach is effective, and really patience is the key. I accept and pray for all that is happening instead of reacting which is so hard to do. I have always lacked patience and am impulsive by nature.
This is 100% a normal reaction to research the h3ll out of something.
The contact between the two of them clearly hurts you... What is in your control that can help minimize the pain fro you?
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
Thank you for your encouragement and giving me the recommendation of the book.
OMG—Patience! I’ve never had to have so much patience before and it was sorely tested this week. Yesterday was a terrible day, but upon reflection today, I realise my part in what has evolved over the week. H and I had a wonderful weekend last weekend. We had to go to a Family event on my side and H was extremely attentive and supportive. More so, than he has ever been in front of my family. H went back to his place early on in the week.He picked a fight over the phone and I immediately got off the phone without reacting and ignored a spray of hostile texts. I knew what was coming. H wants to be in contact with XW. Thanks to having access to phone records, I have been able to verify that this is exactly why he picks fights. Picking fights, contacting XW correlate. A scientific mind knows that correlation does not mean causation. I get that! But, this is how it is and now that I know, I can avoid.
So… I ignored H the next day and went on with my day. I responded to a ‘goodnight x’ text for. H with the same and picked up his call the next morning. We talked on and off on the phone during the day. H ended up picking another fight. The next morning, I checked on his call usage and there is was—a late night, hour long conversation with XW and other calls to her the next day and the day after that. I didn’t react to H. I wanted to expose what I knew with him because I was so angry and hurt with him. Why? Why does he need to be in touch with her to that extent and why are we having such a great time and he still wants something from her? What the hell are they talking about late at night? This is so hurtful!!!!
I’m not kidding, I have been devastated. I have been ruminating and obsessing. I have cried and cried—a deep, deep sadness. I was supposed to be at his place and I chose not to go. I just realised I can’t be in his presence anymore when I don’t have the confidence. It is not the time for me to be vulnerable in front of H. I so badly wanted to call my SIL and expose them both. I wanted to tell my family too. But… But I didn’t. I have held off until my feelings passed and I grieved a little bit more.
What I have come to realise is that, I have been given the evidence as a ‘gift’ to consolidate that I was not going mad and H and XW are involved in a EA possibly more than that. Now that I know, checking on his calls to her does not serve any purpose other than to destroy my confidence and peace of mind. I keep asking the question now… Do my actions serve my goals of bringing me closer to having a better marriage and life? Checking on his calls does not. Nor does exposing his lying and deceit. My Primary goal right now is to attract H back to me and my marriage and building my confidence and my life so I can live a fulfilling life that helps both of us. Everything else I’m doing is working. His contact with XW has halved since I have been DBing and doing my 180’s. We don’t fight as much anymore. XW is not trying to be in his presence during the time we are together which used to happen nearly every weekend since we got married. H is more affectionate and present in our M when we are together, there is progress and I have to keep my eye on the prize. It was patience and not reacting that got me through yesterday. I look for Intuitive thought and I pray when I don’t know what else to do. Which leads me to now replying to Valeska.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Thank you so much for replying and giving me food for thought.
First, the dream that H had about the affair and him lying to me and asking me how does this mean H is coming out of denial? H has been lying to me for a very long time. He was also abusive and would pick fights and he still picks fights so he can deflect the feelings of guilt and shame. Him dreaming of him having an affair and feeling awful about it, is his subconscious catching up with him. It’s a win because, right back in H’s brain, he knows what he is doing is wrong. Yay!! It’s a step and DBing for me is about patience and being given time. Eventually, his feelings in the dream will become a reality.
Originally Posted by Valeska19
Originally Posted by KangaB
Since Ive found the evidence, I have handed it over to my Higher Power and prayed about it. I’ve decided to be my usual, loving self around H, at the same time getting the hang of setting boundaries. When I know that H and XW have been in touch, I lay very low the next day. I make myself as unreachable as I possibly can.
I can see how this is a boundary as in it protects you and provides a little safe care.... but wouldn't the boundary be more of. "H.. if you decide to talk with XW... I am going to need to distance myself”
Okay… so I understand that I can set this sort of boundary if H knows that I know that he is talking to XW. But, he doesn’t know that I know and the fact that he doesn’t know is my power. In fact, I used to try this on him, which only felt like punishment for him and it just brought him closer to XW and distanced him from me. My goal is to attract him back by being the person I used to be before my confidence was completely obliterated by this affair.
Originally Posted by Valeska19
Originally Posted by KangaB
Not only has H shared his affair dream with me, he also brought me flowers on the weekend. They were beautiful. I’m sure he did this for several reasons, guilt being one of them. I don’t care the reason why, it’s wonderful to have them because he used to bring me flowers a lot and doesn’t do it much anymore except when he has been mean and wants to make some sort of amends. H was very affectionate and helpful. He did some maintenance jobs around the house and farm. For over a year, he hasn’t really done a lot of that neither, he would usually pick a fight and want to leave. H didn’t do that. He stayed until it was time to go. H also did the same the weekend before.
This week he has kept up the Affair contact with XW and it hurts a lot. It’s not as bad as it was. Another thing that happened is that he rang me and cried because he is not happy in life. I have not heard him cry like he did for such a long time. It was great he was coming to me to share his pain. H got off the phone quickly when he revealed his pain, but even still, I took this as a positive. Interestingly, he rang XW not long after. I really believe the pain he feeling is because he is lying to me and he feels terrible.
This feels like a little bit like cake eating to me.
Yes I agree this is Cake Eating. This is not the time for me to address Cake Eating. H has not admitted anything to me where I can set bigger boundaries. Until he does, all I can do is be the better cake to eat. I used to whinge and complain about his contact with XW. All it did was make her look like a 12 instead of a 4 that she actually is. I realised from your comments which really angered me and thank you!!! Because this is what I arrived at. Part of DBing and the 180’s is being the better tasting cake so that the WS puts down the other cake for good. No one goes back to a bad tasting anything if something tastes better. What else can you do about Cake Eating where it doesn’t push WS to keep eating their cake and perceive yours as awful. I’m changing my ingredients!!!
Originally Posted by Valeska19
Originally Posted by KangaB
As much as all of this hurts, like Cadet said, I have power now and I’m using it. I’m showing more interest in H which is a 180 for me, yet at times, doing my own thing in his company which is another 180. I don’t mention XW ever (another 180) and I’m praising and thanking H for all the good things he does and I’m vigilant about it (another 180). During the week when we are not together and especially when I know he has been talking to XW, I don’t answer his calls for the majority of the day and have great excuses as to why. H was supposed to call me late last which is a usual time, but he rang late. I didn’t answer and I text him to say goodnight and sleep well. I’m confident he was talking to XW as he rang her a few times yesterday. It hurts sooooo much.
Did I miss it somewhere that you were an avoidant wife? I feel like thee 180 is becoming less available so this feels a little contradictory.
Ha, I love it… calling me an avoidant wife!! It used to be that I would rake him over the coals even if it were done nicely. Did it get me anywhere? No! It just pushed H further into the direction of XW!!! Isn’t it about creating some mystery? Isn’t it about stopping nagging (however nicely it’s done)? I was always in for a fight and standing up for my rights. It has got me nowhere. Some of it may have had an impact for a while, but, deep down I felt powerless knowing that I just cajoled him into stepping into line. I’m not doing that anymore. And yes, I am avoiding fights and abuse until I have set the tone on how better to communicate between us 2. Let it begin with me and I say that he and I only have contact when H is ready to be nice and respects me and our M. Leaving him to have contact with XW also does another thing (even though I hate him lying to me so much and for this to happen). That while H has been given free rein (essentially, I have gotten out of the way) to the ‘wonderful, new and improved XW’—not. I am improving in the background, trying to have a relaxing and enjoyable time so I can be the much better and improved me that H fell in love with in the first place. I want to go back to the confidence that I had when we were first got together and I didn’t give a toss about his contact with XW. I want the confidence again, so that I am ready to accept H’s confession when it happens and then I can set my boundaries and be the prize and he knows it once and for all!!
Love the comments… love that you gave me so much to think about and to prove that nearly everything that I am doing is bringing me closer to my goal of having a better M and a better life, even though at times it feels like I’m going backwards, it is improving. I completely submit myself to MWD’s advice and to all that follow her advice. Slowly but surely.
I’m fighting for my M, not in my M.
Kanga
Last edited by DnJ; 10/07/2306:57 PM. Reason: Added quote syntax for clarity.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Do my actions serve my goals of bringing me closer to having a better marriage and life?
A suggestion for you. Split these apart, and change their order.
Do my actions serve my goal of bringing me closer to having a better life?
Do my actions serve my goal of bringing me closer to having a better marriage?
Two separate goals. The first is completely within your control and power to fulfill. In the second you can only control your part. Realize, the better a life you craft, the better you will influence the second.
To the actual achievement of those goals: Identify them. Clearly. What defines success? How will you know when you do have a better life? Describe it. For such a noble goal as life’s betterment, there will be many paths and headings; each a worthy goal in their own right. List the bigger steps to achieve these. Then further list those big steps into smaller and smaller steps. Each small step achieved bringing you closer and closer to your overall goal(s).
We all required a certain amount of understanding before we will let go. You have your proof of an EA. This information, when utilized in a positive manner, is certainly a gift.
I’d no longer snoop on H and XW. I’d also stop the cake eating. H is living in two worlds. Do not work to destroy XW or their relationship, you’ll just push them together even more. Just let H go. Let him lay in the bed he’s made.
Focus on you. And keep moving forward.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you so much for replying and giving me food for thought.
First, the dream that H had about the affair and him lying to me and asking me how does this mean H is coming out of denial? H has been lying to me for a very long time. He was also abusive and would pick fights and he still picks fights so he can deflect the feelings of guilt and shame. Him dreaming of him having an affair and feeling awful about it, is his subconscious catching up with him. It’s a win because, right back in H’s brain, he knows what he is doing is wrong. Yay!! It’s a step and DBing for me is about patience and being given time. Eventually, his feelings in the dream will become a reality.
Maybe or maybe not. You are giving the dream more power than it deserves.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Since Ive found the evidence, I have handed it over to my Higher Power and prayed about it. I’ve decided to be my usual, loving self around H, at the same time getting the hang of setting boundaries. When I know that H and XW have been in touch, I lay very low the next day. I make myself as unreachable as I possibly can.
I can see how this is a boundary as in it protects you and provides a little safe care.... but wouldn't the boundary be more of. "H.. if you decide to talk with XW... I am going to need to distance myself”
Originally Posted by KangaB
Okay… so I understand that I can set this sort of boundary if H knows that I know that he is talking to XW. But, he doesn’t know that I know and the fact that he doesn’t know is my power. In fact, I used to try this on him, which only felt like punishment for him and it just brought him closer to XW and distanced him from me. My goal is to attract him back by being the person I used to be before my confidence was completely obliterated by this affair.
It's not about "trying" anything on him. You are missing the point with what a boundary is. You can set this boundary w/o even communicating it to him. It's about you believing in yourself enough to say "I deserve to be someone's first choice - and acting accordingly. You can do this w/o nagging by dropping the rope and detaching.
P.S. Laying low for 24 hours isn't going to make H miss you long enough for him to really think about what he wants in life. He just realizes you are gone and texts you - and you jump right back in. Something to think about.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Yes I agree this is Cake Eating. This is not the time for me to address Cake Eating. H has not admitted anything to me where I can set bigger boundaries. Until he does, all I can do is be the better cake to eat. I used to whinge and complain about his contact with XW. All it did was make her look like a 12 instead of a 4 that she actually is. I realised from your comments which really angered me and thank you!!! Because this is what I arrived at. Part of DBing and the 180’s is being the better tasting cake so that the WS puts down the other cake for good. No one goes back to a bad tasting anything if something tastes better. What else can you do about Cake Eating where it doesn’t push WS to keep eating their cake and perceive yours as awful. I’m changing my ingredients!!!
Again... no one is saying to pick a fight with him... but if you think you can nice your way back to him - you need to reread MWD's work. Cake eating will only prolong the process.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Ha, I love it… calling me an avoidant wife!! It used to be that I would rake him over the coals even if it were done nicely. Did it get me anywhere? No! It just pushed H further into the direction of XW!!! Isn’t it about creating some mystery? Isn’t it about stopping nagging (however nicely it’s done)? I was always in for a fight and standing up for my rights. It has got me nowhere. Some of it may have had an impact for a while, but, deep down I felt powerless knowing that I just cajoled him into stepping into line. I’m not doing that anymore. And yes, I am avoiding fights and abuse until I have set the tone on how better to communicate between us 2. Let it begin with me and I say that he and I only have contact when H is ready to be nice and respects me and our M. Leaving him to have contact with XW also does another thing (even though I hate him lying to me so much and for this to happen). That while H has been given free rein (essentially, I have gotten out of the way) to the ‘wonderful, new and improved XW’—not. I am improving in the background, trying to have a relaxing and enjoyable time so I can be the much better and improved me that H fell in love with in the first place. I want to go back to the confidence that I had when we were first got together and I didn’t give a toss about his contact with XW. I want the confidence again, so that I am ready to accept H’s confession when it happens and then I can set my boundaries and be the prize and he knows it once and for all!!
Mystery is creating when you GAL and stop answering and participating in his life so much. That is not what you are doing here. You have said so yourself that he is abusive - it feels like you are just in the "calm" part of the abuse cycle which you, by your own admission, don't want to change to avoid a fight
Originally Posted by KangaB
Love the comments… love that you gave me so much to think about and to prove that nearly everything that I am doing is bringing me closer to my goal of having a better M and a better life, even though at times it feels like I’m going backwards, it is improving. I completely submit myself to MWD’s advice and to all that follow her advice. Slowly but surely.
I just don't see it K. Nagging is a response to be a push over. I'm glad you stopped that but your H is still holding for the power.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I’m fighting for my M, not in my M.
The best way to fight for your marriage is to fight for YOURSELF. How are you doing that when your life is still so consumed with H?
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
I woke up this morning having read what you both wrote. I also had more news because I snooped. Of course I couldn’t help it and all the bravado that I said in my posts obviously made God laugh and this is what came of it…
H I know about all the contact you have been having with XW behind my back. I have known for a while. The reason why I was crying the other night and yesterday was because of it. I have tried to be strong and given my all in the last few months to you. Back in July, I knew. It’s why I was crying on and off while you were here one time and you kept asking me what was wrong and I said I would tell you some day. I knew it at both Family gatherings in June and August.
This has undermined our marriage for a long time. I know that there are times that you didn’t call to say goodnight but you were on the phone to XW. I know that you were not just hanging out with SS yesterday but on the phone to XW and you didn’t call back last night because you were on the phone to XW.
I am beyond devastated and heart broken!!! I so wanted to go on our honeymoon, but already there isn’t one because I am nothing to you and I can’t live in an open marriage anymore and to be shown deceit like this. It’s why you pushed me away on our first anniversary. It’s why you have tried to tell me the reasons why we shouldn’t go on our honeymoon.
I would never go behind your back with any other man and talk to them like you have with XW. What woman would make herself available to a married man like this? You would always know and have always known who I have contacted in my life. You even said to me on the phone about 6 weeks ago that you were watching a show about 2 seperate married people being friends outside of their marriages and how you couldn’t stand it, if I were doing it to you.
You had a dream 2 weeks ago, that you had an affair and how awful it was. Your contact with XW is in secret. It is a lot and it’s not appropriate and you would not like it.
You both have disrespected me and treated me like a fool. How can I trust? How can I stay strong when you are sneaking around—both of you as if our marriage doesn’t exist? Our marriage never had a chance.
I gave you my life, commitment for life, dedication through good and bad. I have read those vows over and over in the last few months trying to uphold my dignity and integrity in spite of this.
You will no longer call me, you will no longer come here. You both have what you want.
I know that you love me. And I keep asking myself why? You said you never liked her. You said you never loved her.
I love you and I want you to be happy with all my heart. I can’t be in this situation anymore. I told you I was not giving up on our marriage and I mean it.
Thank you so much for all the good times and I hope you find what you’ve been searching for outside of our marriage. I have learned so much knowing what has been going on and showing the best love that I have despite what you have both been doing.
There is only so much I can take.
Goodbye,
Kanga xoxoxoxo
Feeling pretty awful. Rang SIL and told her. I know I wasn’t meant to. None of this was supposed to happen, but it did and I didn’t even have to rewrite. It just came. I was ready and I didn’t want to face it. H has since turned it all on me and told me I’m over reacting. Told me it was all my fault.
I hate both of them. XW was the last person he talked to last night, the most person he talked to yesterday and he didn’t even say goodnight to me. He’s gone.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Do you know why “the letter” is the worst thing you can do at this time? It’s because when you don’t get the response you want it is devastating. It’s just digs the hole you are in deeper and deeper. When you don’t follow through with the words you write on paper it makes you weaker to your husband. I’m sorry you are going through with this right now. Take it one day at a time.
Sorry to hear Kanga about your situation and everything you are going through. Every day is a new day and a new beginning. You need to turn the focus on YOU now. Put yourself first. Work on you. Let H be and let him choose his own path and own way out. You can’t control him. I’m sorry the response to the letter wasn’t what you wanted, but remember what everyone on here so often says about having zero expectations. Keep moving forward and keep working to detach. The moment you drop that rope is the moment your life will change in this current situation
M:41 H:48 T:20. M:16.5 BD: 15/12/22 -moved out 17/3/2023
Sorry to hear about this. Believe me, there are many times when I want to just tell my W why her current mindset is completely at odds with mine, or the way she used to act. I have a whole speech prepared. I have run it over in my head many times, and sometimes when she’s not around I even practice delivering it.
But I never do. The reason I don’t is exactly what you’ve been told here. It won’t do any good and is likely to make things worse. Back before BD, before I knew W wanted out of the M but I knew she was hurting, I wrote a heartfelt letter to her. I poured out what I felt about her. You know where that got me? Nowhere. D was filed one month later.
If your H behaves nicely toward you, realize that he is playing a role. He is trying to keep the peace or cake eat, or both. My W does the same. She says that she respects me and acts nicely to my face but will then turn around and say nasty things about me behind my back to her parents. I have no confirmation that she is having an affair, but she very well may be.
Of course, she is playing a role with her parents too, that of the victim. And so is your H. Notice how your H tried to turn all of the blame back onto you? Said it was all your fault? He easily identifies your flaws but ignores his own, which are just as significant.
The advice you have been given is good. Move forward with yourself and for yourself. It is hard, hard, hard, but it is the only way.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
I woke up this morning having read what you both wrote. I also had more news because I snooped. Of course I couldn’t help it and all the bravado that I said in my posts obviously made God laugh and this is what came of it…
Beating yourself up is a normal response amongst the many you will have over the next few hours. Do not linger here. It will not be helpful to you long term.
Originally Posted by KangaB
H I know about all the contact you have been having with XW behind my back. I have known for a while. The reason why I was crying the other night and yesterday was because of it. I have tried to be strong and given my all in the last few months to you. Back in July, I knew. It’s why I was crying on and off while you were here one time and you kept asking me what was wrong and I said I would tell you some day. I knew it at both Family gatherings in June and August.
This has undermined our marriage for a long time. I know that there are times that you didn’t call to say goodnight but you were on the phone to XW. I know that you were not just hanging out with SS yesterday but on the phone to XW and you didn’t call back last night because you were on the phone to XW.
I am beyond devastated and heart broken!!! I so wanted to go on our honeymoon, but already there isn’t one because I am nothing to you and I can’t live in an open marriage anymore and to be shown deceit like this. It’s why you pushed me away on our first anniversary. It’s why you have tried to tell me the reasons why we shouldn’t go on our honeymoon.
I would never go behind your back with any other man and talk to them like you have with XW. What woman would make herself available to a married man like this? You would always know and have always known who I have contacted in my life. You even said to me on the phone about 6 weeks ago that you were watching a show about 2 seperate married people being friends outside of their marriages and how you couldn’t stand it, if I were doing it to you.
You had a dream 2 weeks ago, that you had an affair and how awful it was. Your contact with XW is in secret. It is a lot and it’s not appropriate and you would not like it.
You both have disrespected me and treated me like a fool. How can I trust? How can I stay strong when you are sneaking around—both of you as if our marriage doesn’t exist? Our marriage never had a chance.
I gave you my life, commitment for life, dedication through good and bad. I have read those vows over and over in the last few months trying to uphold my dignity and integrity in spite of this.
You will no longer call me, you will no longer come here. You both have what you want.
I know that you love me. And I keep asking myself why? You said you never liked her. You said you never loved her.
I love you and I want you to be happy with all my heart. I can’t be in this situation anymore. I told you I was not giving up on our marriage and I mean it.
Thank you so much for all the good times and I hope you find what you’ve been searching for outside of our marriage. I have learned so much knowing what has been going on and showing the best love that I have despite what you have both been doing.
There is only so much I can take.
Goodbye,
Kanga xoxoxoxo
Humans do not like to feel this kind of pain. This letter is an attempt to relieve that pain. Although it can be helpful - sending it will not achieve what you want. A tool instead is to create a grief journey. Write all above into that... daily if need be. It will help you process what you are going through.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Feeling pretty awful. Rang SIL and told her. I know I wasn’t meant to. None of this was supposed to happen, but it did and I didn’t even have to rewrite. It just came. I was ready and I didn’t want to face it. H has since turned it all on me and told me I’m over reacting. Told me it was all my fault.
You are spinning a little bit. And that too is a normal reaction. When I would spin - vets would tell me to take 48-72 hrs to calm down. This felt like a LIFETIME.. but usually helped prevent me from doing something I would regret (ie. writing a letter, calling SIL)
Originally Posted by KangaB
I hate both of them. XW was the last person he talked to last night, the most person he talked to yesterday and he didn’t even say goodnight to me. He’s gone.
Snooping creates a false calm to the anxiety you are feeling right now. If you stop - it is probable that you will feel even MORE anxious. That is going to come with any boundary you make or any attempt you do to take care of yourself when you H is in his fog.
But stay committed... you are worth it.
Last edited by DnJ; 10/21/2301:43 PM. Reason: Corrected quote syntax.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
If you feel the need to write a letter, do so, but do not give it to him. Burn it after you are finished. Why? Because no matter what you say or do, everything will be your fault. The less you interact with him, the better.
He will play nice as long as he is getting what he wants. He will attempt to engage you, no matter if it is positive or negative, just to be able to say "see, she is still at it". Just leave him alone as much as you can.
Your h is gone, your marriage is dead and you need to mourn the situation. Once you have a better grasp of what is going on, you'll understand more about the "projection" that they use to place blame on us when they are actually doing whatever the deed or statement that has been said.
Again, leave him alone, do not engage unless it is to discuss your family. Do not share your business with him. If you go out, don't tell him where you are going or when you'll be back. The less you say, the better. He needs to hit the brick wall a number of times before he realizes that life exists, bills exist and responsibilities exist and that you are not his mother.
Please, please try to keep the focus on you. I know it is difficult, but you need to live your life to the fullest right now. Trust me, your anxiety level will go down when you start focusing on yourself and what you want to do with your life since he's MIA.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I can’t believe it, I spent the past hour posting and my iPad went flat and I lost the whole lot and I was just about to sign off. All meant to be!
First, I want to thank Job, Valeska, Sunflyer, Pattnee and Boat for the tough caring. It was what I needed just at the right time. And it really hurt!!!!! I just couldn’t bring myself to reply until now.
I’ve spent the past week mostly in bed, realising and accepting that my M is dead like Job said. It’s so awful. Sometimes chocolate for breakfast and just leaving dishes everywhere. Fortunately, I work for myself and can afford the luxury of doing so.
I really felt I needed to write the letter and send it—for me. Sick to death of what is going on and sick of disrespecting myself like I have. I know, I know, I wasn’t supposed to. I got the reaction from H that I thought I was going to get. I was prepared, but hoping it would sink in a bit. Though, I have to say I have felt relieved not being in the limbo that I was. I thought I was DBing, but I was just being nice and enabling H to Cake eat. I didn’t realise until now how much I have had to pull back from my M.
I haven’t been sleeping too well and I’ve lost some weight. I awake in the night and I read the forums here until I fall asleep again. It has been viciously lonely, realising and accepting that my M was way worse than I thought it was. I suspect H has gone underground with XW now that he knows that I’ve been checking the Phone usage. I have had very limited contact with him. I have not called once and it has been 2 weeks since I’ve seen him. I respond to his texts in kind and keep them short but pleasant. I keep the phone calls short if he rings and I try not to ring him back. Been a bit difficult as his step-father nearly died last week and was in ICU. I’m texting only when I need to. I’ve postponed our belated honeymoon which was supposed to be in 3 weeks OS for a further 6 months with in mind to go by myself for my 50th birthday. Oh that really hurt, because I knew H was somehow going to ruin this trip.
In desperation last week, rather than reaching out to H like I normally would, I reached out to a local pastor that I know and went to church yesterday for the first times in a few years. I reached out to the pastor and told him about what is going on and he would like to see us both to counsel us. FIL told me it’s either divorce or MC. I told H that and that I don’t want a divorce. He told me he doesn’t want one neither, but of course I don’t believe him. He has told the pastor this and my father and told them both that he loves me and wants to grow old with me. Yet, he still maintains that he hasn’t done anything wrong, has no feelings for XW and is talking about the kids only. I say BS… as he has been hiding the contact and pursuing her and neglecting our M and picking fights. I just can’t go back to the way things were, and I know he is trying to pull me back into it because it feels good for him. It is so hard to think clearly and not get caught up in the gaslighting. H has almost had me convinced I’m overreacting. Both my father and FIL have said I have to trust. What BS… I fought back and said no, H has to be trustworthy and put them in their place.
I’m finding it hard to let go, although checking on the Phone usage has stopped. I know he is in contact with XW because the times I have had to talk to him (briefly), he has picked up on her accent. I just assume now and I make sure that if I have to contact him, it’s during business hours only with in mind that he probably speaks to her in the evenings.
This is so hard. H has been telling me he loves me, but no remorse. He then gets mean and sends nasty texts. I have to say this time, there haven’t been as many nasty texts. H rings me and expects to engage in conversation like nothing has happened, even though I have told him I don’t want to talk to him. I have also told him, I don’t want to talk about our R.
So, I’m trying to look at this with a Beginner’s mind and do my 180’s. I now realise all this time up until I wrote the letter, I was trying to piece and nice my H back into the M. How can this happen when he doesn’t respect me nor our M. I look back and there are so many things that just haven’t added up and we just haven’t been in a M at all. Moments of tenderness and good times, but that’s it. There is no consistency because XW has been consistent and has changed tracks to keep him focussed away from M. I’m now thinking that our M was just a rebound from them in the 1st place. I feel like it is just a sham.
But what to do now?
So I’ve arranged MC with the Pastor, but I’m not sure if this is the right thing. First, I don’t want H to see me cry and I’m not sure being in the same room together to try and work on a M with H when he thinks nothing of what he’s doing and wants to keep XW in the marriage. The only thing is the Pastor has a fantastic rapport with men and he believes in saving M’s. H doesn’t have any close Male friends and I want him to be able to confide in another man with good morals and who takes M seriously. I really don’t think it’s going to make a difference. I’m terribly low on hope for us. I’m praying a lot and hoping that the contact with the Pastor may lead H back to his faith which he lost just before he met XW in his 30’s.
Our M is dead and it might not recover. I’m fearful of not seeing him again. I miss the good bits and the hope and dreams for our future. Oh it’s awful and so lonely without him. I’m tearing up as I write.
I just don’t know where to go from here and how to do the contact or what to do with the lack of it. How to keep the door open a little bit, but not too much that he thinks he can get it all back his way again.
The last contact which was tonight, I sent him a text after he called twice (I’m trying not to call him back) and told him I don’t feel much like talking but I appreciate that he is making an effort. He replied with I am making an effort and I will now leave it up to you to contact me. I said ‘ok’. He has not apologised for lying to me. Nothing… just that he loves me and that it doesn’t have to be this way. Then he will get angry with me when I don’t respond. So I don’t know… I know if I go back and cave in it will just get worse and I don’t want to do that. He is expecting me to come to my senses.
Where do I go from here with communication so I’m not offending but protecting myself. And what do I do about MC? I’m thinking of giving MC 6 months and see how we go. I’m not going to initiate divorce. He will have to make the effort. I’m so disappointed and hurt by him.
Today, I cleaned up the house and folded the washing. It is slightly getting better each day. I wake with dread when I realise what has happened. Firmly out of the fog and I can’t go back. I know that after reading 100’s of postings that I can only go forward. I honestly want him to snap out of it and have an epiphany. Am I wrong in any way? I’ve tried so hard since July not to react to him and be the best version of myself. Why didn’t it work? Why did he show so much neglect for our M?
I welcome the feedback and thank you to all that jumped on me when I wrote the letter and sent it.
Kanga
Last edited by DnJ; 10/16/2303:20 PM. Reason: Clarified step-father for poster.
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Oh Kanga I feel for you. I have been there, that horrible feeling, that immense pain right in your chest. Wanting to stay in bed all day, not eating or sleeping. It really is the worst thing I have ever been through. But I survived. And you will too. One day at a time. Just remember to breathe. Firstly stop beating yourself up with what you could or should have done. Unfortunately us trying to “nice “ them back never works. We all resist the advice on here and think we know best. But there’s a fine line between being nice and a doormat. You need to drop the emotional rope. It’s when you will finally start to feel better. I have no idea what one magical thing made me do it but moreso a collection of anything and everything. I had my kids so that sort of forced me to get up every single day and do things even though I just wanted to stay in bed. So try and do 3 things for yourself every single day, mute your phone to H when you are doing those things, start a new hobby, join a group, anything that gives you a reason to drag yourself out of bed every day and move. Do you have a dog? I found my dog really helped me. She is an energetic 2 year old now but she showed u conditional love, kept me company at night, and made me walk her daily. She really was my best therapy. To me, it sounds like H wants to keep the door open with you, just in case his plan doesn’t Work out. If he’s open to MC then I imagine that’s good, ( my H wasn’t and still isn’t) but I am not sure how someone who isn’t really religious any more will Feel in a religious counselling session. Don’t feel pressured into reaching out to H because he said he would leave it up to you. Sounds like he’s baiting you really. Leave him, step back, Let him miss you. He knows that you still Love him and want the marriage to work. You don’t need to remind him all the time. Let him miss you and see what life is like without you dropping everything for him. Personally I Wouldn’t call him. See him at counselling have a chat and then go your seperate ways. Be a bit mysterious let him wonder what you’re up to what you’re doing. And in the meantime don’t let him know you’re internally combusting-that’s what we do in our private time he doesn’t need to know that. Take the time and breather from him for YOU. Because you need it. We get so dragged down by the H in these situations. As females we want to fix and nurture and want to know every single emotion and talk everything out constantly. Step back and take a breath and just focus on you for now. And NEVER be ashamed of slip ups along the way. That’s how we learn and grow through this. I did my fair share of incredibly silly things. It’s how we learn and grow from this. One day at a time. Keep posting. I often found much better advice on here from the vets than through counselling because it’s likeminded people who have walked your shoes. We all want our WAS to snap out of it, we all question and over analyse anything and everything we ever did and do. They make us believe we are so in the wrong. Just try and shelve the “what’s going to happen in my marriage” for now and work on one day at a time try to live in the present and honestly just do what you need to get through. It’s all very up in the air and there’s no possibly way to try and guess how this will play out. Just one day at a time. Try and conserve your energy for you
M:41 H:48 T:20. M:16.5 BD: 15/12/22 -moved out 17/3/2023
I told H that and that I don’t want a divorce. He told me he doesn’t want one neither, but of course I don’t believe him. He has told the pastor this and my father and told them both that he loves me and wants to grow old with me. Yet, he still maintains that he hasn’t done anything wrong, has no feelings for XW and is talking about the kids only. I say BS… as he has been hiding the contact and pursuing her and neglecting our M and picking fights. I just can’t go back to the way things were, and I know he is trying to pull me back into it because it feels good for him. It is so hard to think clearly and not get caught up in the gaslighting. H has almost had me convinced I’m overreacting. Both my father and FIL have said I have to trust. What BS… I fought back and said no, H has to be trustworthy and put them in their place.
Well done!
Gaslighting is devilishly tricky and wicked. An insidious tacit to make someone doubt their own thoughts, feelings, and values. Very well done standing up to it.
Originally Posted by KangaB
This is so hard. H has been telling me he loves me, but no remorse. He then gets mean and sends nasty texts. I have to say this time, there haven’t been as many nasty texts. H rings me and expects to engage in conversation like nothing has happened, even though I have told him I don’t want to talk to him. I have also told him, I don’t want to talk about our R.
H has quite a bit of work to do on himself. You are wisely looking to his actions and not his words - says he loves you, yet no expression of remorse. Attempts to act like nothing has happened. Stick to your path.
Originally Posted by KangaB
But what to do now?
Originally Posted by KangaB
I just don’t know where to go from here and how to do the contact or what to do with the lack of it. How to keep the door open a little bit, but not too much that he thinks he can get it all back his way again.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Where do I go from here with communication so I’m not offending but protecting myself. And what do I do about MC?
Answers will come in time. The good thing, you don’t need answer any of this today. Honest. You don’t. Let it go for right now. (((Hug)))
Consider your boundaries. You’ve identified disrespectful behaviour and conversations from H. You know when that is. Implement a boundary - for you. Not to fix H, rather to maintain your mental and emotional health.
Boundaries are not offensive. They are a pre-planned thought out response to disrespectful and/or hurtful behaviour. You are responding to H’s behaviours. You are not seeking out some manner of retribution.
Focus on you. GAL. Live. Do not fret about the lack of communication. Stick to your guns and path, for you deserve to be treated well.
You keep the door open by living your best version of you. A lighthouse shines because they are. Kanga, find your strong deep foundations, shine because you are wonderful person, and live.
I know it currently hurts. A lot! Yet, you have fortitude and strength. You’ve not toppled. You still stand strong is life’s storms. That is a lighthouse.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Today, I cleaned up the house and folded the washing. It is slightly getting better each day. I wake with dread when I realise what has happened. Firmly out of the fog and I can’t go back. I know that after reading 100’s of postings that I can only go forward.
Keep at it. Keep moving forward, one day at a time.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I honestly want him to snap out of it and have an epiphany. Am I wrong in any way? I’ve tried so hard since July not to react to him and be the best version of myself. Why didn’t it work? Why did he show so much neglect for our M?
You didn’t break H, therefore you cannot fix him.
The future is thankfully unknown and unwritten. Let it unfold.
Keep focusing on you, and living your best life.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Pattnee thank you so much for giving me such tender advice!! Gentle yet strong. I’m very raw at the moment so it’s sunk in. I’ve read and re-read. It’s humbling to know there are people from all over the world that give so generously here and been through the pain. Oh the pain… I read somewhere on here that it’s the hard road that leads to the easy path. Not sure if I have this right. I know I can’t turn back now. It just has to change. I’m a shell of myself and I know H doesn’t like himself at the moment too.
It’s been another tough day. I miss H so much. However, I’ve done more today than I have in a couple of weeks. I did more than just having to. I mowed and mowed the lawn until I couldn’t do it any longer. I spent some quality work time with my elderly father. I volunteer for an organisation on an Tues night and helped someone. It’s been a bit of a Spiritual experience today.
It was hard… I wanted to call H and ruminated over what is going on. The Pastor reached out to he last night and I organised a time for MC. I promised I would text H over the next 24 hours about it and not straight away. So I text late this afternoon and let him know the time and if he didn’t want to go at that time, then he could organise it with the Pastor and let me know. I asked myself whether I was reaching out for the right reason or was it that I just wanted to be in touch? It was because I wanted to be in touch and then I asked myself how will I cope if he doesn’t reply? I was in so much pain, I prayed instead and then he replied. He replied with ‘that sounds good’ and asked me for the address of where to go and then thanked me. It was perfect because I wanted him to meet me there and not expect to be at my place beforehand. At the same time, I was secretly a little offended that he didn’t want to be at my place beforehand.
H had been telling me that he loves me over the past few weeks, via text and phone calls and I’ve been good not to say it as one of my 180’s. I felt compelled to text after his co operation today to say I love you too. It felt good and he replied with a I love you too. We left it at that.
I am laying very low and don’t wish to talk to H. I have nothing to say other than wanting to spew my hurt. It would not work. So I have to stay with the texts and I’ve decided to keep the door open a little bit. Contacting him when I need to and leaving it on a good note and staying away. It’s exhausting having to think in a different way all the time. I’m realising how far down I’ve gone in confidence and esteem. This is what respect for oneself feels like and I think part of the pain is realising that I had allowed H to walk all over me and not only him, but his XW and other members of his family for a long time. XW is the symptom. I’m slowly awakening to the fact that I gave into H’s way long ago and have been enabling him for a really long time. Which leads onto replying to DnJ.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
DnJ… I’ve been spurred on by what you said. First, I have never challenged my FIL and have always thought of him as being a bit of bully. It was scary to say what I said because he yelled at me, but I’m glad I did. My father is a gentle man, but he is a man’s man and it was good to say what I did to him as well.
The reminders to GAL. I’ve read your replies in the past too. It is essentially the same message. You all say it with patience without letting the ball drop. Gentle and consistent pressure.
Sometimes I want to run from DB because it’s hard. I have to walk through this and I’m willing. It’s scary and sad and I don’t like change to begin with.
I read all of it, I need it… as I’ve said I don’t want to go back to the way it was. I have to be so strong because H is so professional in his controlling and gaslighting ways. One false move such as a phone call at the wrong time, he will know that he has me back to where he wants me.
I don’t want that anymore. When I was mowing today, I realise too that a lot of the pain is in the in between letting go absolutely and hanging on still. It’s woeful.
I do appreciate your replies.
One day at a time… 5 mins at a time sometimes. My afternoon was miserable, but I got through it.
I want to get to the point where, I no longer worry about the contact… I know I can’t skip parts to this.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
I feel for you. You very much remind me of the feelings I had when I went through what was arguably the worst time of my life.
I remember feeling like I was broken because a lot of the other posters seemed to be handling their situations much better than I was. The anxiety for me was crippling. There were days that I would vomit just thinking about things. I very much have an anxious attachment style due to some trauma I experienced as a child.
It doesn't happen for everyone, and I don't want to provide you with false hope, but I was able to get my WAS back (although the relationship ended a few years later). I would spend hours and hours scouring the internet looking for a fix. I would be on these forums for hours at a time. It became an obsession. I couldn't sleep, I went to the doctor for meds. I'd talk to my poor friends about things every single day repeating the same conversation over and over again.
What worked for me, was complete and total, pitch black, no contact.
* I stopped calling * I stopped texting * I stayed off social media because seeing her smiling in pictures was torture for me * I stopped snooping * I stopped asking friends about her * I pretended that she had passed away (I know that sounds morbid but it def helped)
I did this for months on end.
Until one day she texted me. I remember my hand shaking uncontrollably while I read the message on my phone. She wanted to talk and asked to meet at a Starbucks. Basically she wanted me back and we slowly got back together.
One of the most helpful things that I did was start new hobbies. At first I had zero interest in hobbies, all I cared about was her. I was addicted to her. I joined the gym and started mountain biking and after a few tries, I very slowly started to enjoy it. I felt like I had accomplished something afterwards, but then the anxiety would take hold again. But I kept going and slowly over time, my confidence started to grow. And it slowly transformed me into who I am today.
I promise you, you will smile again one day. It's going to take some time, but it will happen. And IF your H doesn't come back, the lessons you will have learned from this experience will bring a new meaning to your life that you will actually be THANKFUL for. Read that again, I said you will be thankful for this experience.
I don’t want that anymore. When I was mowing today, I realise too that a lot of the pain is in the in between letting go absolutely and hanging on still. It’s woeful.
Of course. You cannot erase the history you have with someone so easily. The need to leave them to their devices, and the deep-rooted attachment you developed, are at odds with each other. That attachment will leave a mark on you, make no mistake, and pain will be the result when disruption occurs.
The first woman I had any kind of physical intimacy with would have been a complete disaster relationship wise if she had stayed in my life longer than she did, which was only a few months. I see that now although I was rather blind to it at the time. But there are things about those few months--nowhere near the decades I had with my W--that will stay with me just as long as the memories of my W will (that is, until I die).
Hold your head up. Your H has some major issues to work out. Despite this, you are taking the high road. Moving ahead with yourself and for yourself. You are a prize. Repeat it to yourself every time the pain tries to drag you down.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
I took great strength out of what you both wrote over the last few days. When I read your encouragement and advice, I prayed and I went through the acceptance list that I’ve been writing and something lifted. I suddenly felt a sense of relief, to the point that I got inspired to learn how to DJ. I used to work in the Music industry and I have always wanted to learn to spin records. I’m not sure whether I will get to the point but I downloaded hundreds of songs and the genres I would like to play and started reading about the craft. The point is I haven’t felt this inspired in a long time. I also started thinking about a life without H and what that would look like if I decided to become a DJ just for fun. I loved watching DJ Ruth Flowers aka Mammy Rock on YouTube and how she did it.
The last few days, I’ve been going with the excitement of learning something new. It may never happen, but I’m relieved of the pain I have been feeling for quite a while. I then go back to the grief, but I’ve stopped crying a lot. I still don’t have a lot of energy, in fact I’m really tired. I’m just going with it and doing the things I need to do and then rest again.
I really need to hear some thoughts about MC. H and I are going to see my local Pastor on Monday and I have no idea what I want to say or how I should be. I welcome all suggestions and advice. H will manipulate the session I know that, he is already preparing.
H also sent me a strange text last night that said he feels like we are forgetting each other with a teary emoji. I didn’t reply until this morning and just said ‘same’ with teary emoji. It was the first honest text that I have received from H in months. After I sent the reply, I was sent a barrage of abuse and I’m going to put it here because I would really like to understand what is going on. If anyone would care to let me know their thoughts, I would appreciate it.
This is what H said…
Well I’ve done EVERYTHING you’ve asked of me, I’ve abided by the rules you have set. I’ve reached out to you any number of times. There’s only one person who can change this and that is you.
Unfortunately, you are the one who is writing on this wall, and each hour and each day that goes by where you can’t acknowledge this, and continue to hold on to your resentments and keep buying into the lies you keep telling yourself, just makes the situation even less and less recoverable.
What ever has clicked over in your mind you need to snap out of it. Right now!
Have a look and the table and chairs out there in your garden, and remember what it was like to sit there by yourself. Or driving just to have something to do. Or how tired your friends got when you would call them all the time.
If that’s what you want your life to be again, and maybe it is?? Maybe you have decided that you’ve checked marriage off the list and now this is your way of trying to find a way out???
It’s difficult for me because your words say you want to be in a marriage - but your actions show otherwise.
Right now all of your actions show that you’ve decided to move on in life without me.
Maybe you’re having an affair?
If that’s the case then just be honest and tell me. At least I’d know.
But if it’s just that you’ve let your mind play tricks on you again then you really need to snap out of it before it really is too late.
Seeing a counsellor doesn’t forgo maintaining our relationship.
Hope
I’m not sure how I should reply to this. I never asked him to reach out, in fact I said please do not call.
I need some help.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Well, I am hardly a veteran here, but it sounds to me like he is gaslighting you again.
He is making it seem that your actions are fully responsible for the current situation, but on the other hand he continues, apparently, to maintain a relationship with XW, and he doesn't want to change that. He likes having two women wrapped around his finger.
Great idea about exploring a new hobby! That kind of thing is exactly what you need.
Also, I am not sure I read your entire thread in the past, but I've gathered that you and H don't live under the same roof. May I ask why that is? Did you separate at some point? Apologies if I missed something.
Last edited by Sunflyer; 10/21/2301:44 PM.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
I am glad to hear you are inspired and excited about doing and learning something new. Good for you!
Everyone needs a certain amount of understand of their situation before they can really start to let go. And even more, start to embrace themselves and their life. What I’ve seen in your posts is that growing and understanding and start of accepting.
Learning to DJ sounds pretty fun. And your passion is glowing right off the page. Like you said, you’ve got hundreds of songs you want to listen to and go from there. I bet it’s been sometime since you wanted to play (and maybe sing to) those loved songs.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I really need to hear some thoughts about MC. H and I are going to see my local Pastor on Monday and I have no idea what I want to say or how I should be.
I do agree with you that H is likely preparing for the MC session. He likely will try to move it in a certain direction.
So, what do can you do about that?
You could fight fire with fire. Go head to head with H. Usually not a great option. So much flame just turns everything to cinders and ash.
You could turn the other cheek. Just allowing H to spew. However, that is likely to just poison the session.
We could keep going with different scenarios and potential outcomes to no real avail. The point being control. You cannot control the outcome of the session, you only can control you - your thoughts, actions, and reactions.
Consider the “why” of you having no idea what to say or how to be during MC. You are likely after a certain outcome or result. Perfectly normal. However, let go that need for a certain outcome and focus on you.
Preparing for an interview, or counselling, or a conversation, predisposed one to seeing things that way. I do agree that “some” preparation is helpful, yet most folks run the potential conversation over and over in their mind so many times beforehand they are really closed off. If one has thought through, their side, what they want to say, the likely subsequent back and forth, the debate, and the defending of their position, like a hundred times - the actual one time will have little or no effect upon them. That entrenchment is likely where H is, and will be, at.
How you should be: Be yourself. Know thy self. Know your truth.
Ah, the truth. We all view the world through our own lens. Our knowledge, experiences, beliefs, prejudices, and so on, all crafting one’s truth.
I do believe there is one truth. A reality. Yet we cannot ever fully see it nor understand it. We craft reality with our senses - sight, taste, feel, hear, and so on. So one’s reality is subjective not objective. Even though there is an objective reality.
Consider sound. Play a C major chord. C, E, and G. First, third, and major fifth. We hear the overall chord and we hear the individual notes.
Now consider the color yellow. We cannot distinguish between pure yellow, that sinusoidal waveform with a wavelength of 580nm or the mixture of red and green. We literally cannot see the individual colors like we hear the notes in a chord, we only see yellow. We cannot see this reality. Completely indistinguishable. Of course, we have created devices that can separate and display the individual components of the composite waveforms. Thus peering further into reality.
The point being it’s the pursuit of reality that truly matters. A willingness to learn and grow, and see beyond.
What to say: Your letter spelt things out pretty clearly.
Let H start where he will. And see what the resulting chasm looks like.
To be clear. Do stand up for yourself, you can even re-state your boundaries on disrespectful behaviour, while maintaining a willingness to listen. Do not get steamrolled over. Speak factually and non-judgementally. Realize H’s truth/viewpoint is different. Think less in terms of right and wrong, and more in differing points of view.
To me, MC is not about telling you the answers, it’s about providing an environment to discuss. Its success depends upon the willingness of all the parties. I’m pretty sure about you, H not so much.
H’s message has lots of blame. Lots of accusations towards what H feels Kanga has done, and nothing about what he has done. He even tells you to snap out of it. His statement that he did everything you ask of him, and followed all the rules you set out, is all such a farce. Misdirection, avoiding, projecting, gaslighting, and so on.
Gaslighting is a purposeful emotional abuse to cause the other person to question their reality, their perceptions, their very memories. It is a form of control and assertion of power.
Projection is not gaslighting. Projection is a defence mechanism where one unconsciously copes by avoiding difficult emotions. It’s an unconscious attributing of one’s own thoughts, feelings, and beliefs upon another. A defence mechanism, an unrealized expression of the person’s own inner dialog. A few behaviours of projection: avoiding responsibility, making accusations, defensiveness, and invalidation.
H’s message has some gaslighting elements. Yet, to me, it has much more projection elements. Replace Kanga with H in his message and the projecting becomes clearer.
Quote
There’s only one person who can change this and that is youme.
Unfortunately, you areI am the one who is writing on this wall, and each hour and each day that goes by where youI can’t acknowledge this, and continue to hold on to yourmy resentments and keep buying into the lies youI keep telling yourselfmyself, just makes the situation even less and less recoverable.
What ever has clicked over in yourmy mind youI need to snap out of it. Right now!
(And so on. Continue replacing below.)
Have a look and the table and chairs out there in your garden, and remember what it was like to sit there by yourself. Or driving just to have something to do. Or how tired your friends got when you would call them all the time.
If that’s what you want your life to be again, and maybe it is?? Maybe you have decided that you’ve checked marriage off the list and now this is your way of trying to find a way out???
Maybe you have decided that you’ve checked marriage off the list and now this is your way of trying to find a way out???
It’s difficult for me because your words say you want to be in a marriage - but your actions show otherwise.
Right now all of your actions show that you’ve decided to move on in life without me.
Maybe you’re having an affair?
If that’s the case then just be honest and tell me. At least I’d know.
But if it’s just that you’ve let your mind play tricks on you again then you really need to snap out of it before it really is too late.
Seeing a counsellor doesn’t forgo maintaining our relationship.
Projection stems from avoiding difficult emotions. H has avoided difficult emotions for quite a while. You know this. Take what H says with a grain salt. Believe nothing he says, and only half of what he does.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I’m back! I haven’t yet caught up on the last posts of DnJ and Sunflyer that I need to reply to and apologise to. I left the forum mid-October last year to step out into the world after doing some counselling with my husband and the local Pastor. Up until 4 weeks ago, things were looking up. The universe forced us together everyday for 8 weeks with only one car while our other car was getting prepared. We had the best time. We have never lived together longer than 2 weeks in the 9 years we have been together except while on holidays. We have always lived apart. For those (including Sunflyer) who missed my situation, H and I have always had seperate houses due to his children living with him full time. Eventually, they all moved out and I’m living 2.5Hrs helping run a Family business and he is working where he is. We always said we would move in together eventually. So here we were over Christmas and New Year into January living together and enjoying each other so much. I was surprised. We had no interference from XW and my husband (after our counselling sessions) didn’t encourage her and he didn’t reach out. It was a little stressful due to having to be in all places with one car. Overall it was the best fun. It made me really want to live with him.
And then, back to reality. The 2nd car was fixed and we went back to our old routine. H has decided to put his house on the market to move over with me. Due to Mortgage stress, he has put the house on the market before he really wanted to. We were hoping for Interest rates to improve before he would sell. It has been a grieving time for him. I have mixed feelings as I’ve been super excited about him doing it; yet will miss his place as well when it sells. XW stills barges into the house without asking. She did this recently as SD was visiting. H didn’t engage with her, except for hi and then came into bedroom where I was hiding out as last time, I told XW very politely not to do that again. She was stirring for it obviously, but new both didn’t take the bait. H has told her many times not to come in, she just ignores him. Back to his house… It was the Family home that he built with XW, so of course I would like a fresh start.
The last 4 weeks, H has been irritable, distant and picking fights again. All the hallmarks of reconnecting with XW behind my back. As we speak, I’m just in the process of asking him if he is speaking to XW behind my back again as his behaviour changes purely for this reason. I haven’t seen H for 6 days. He picked a fight and drove home the next day from my place. I set a hefty boundary and he didn’t like it and fumed home. Funnily, he spoke with XW tonight, but tells me this is the first time in a long time. He assured me during counselling that he was going to be transparent.
I actually don’t quite believe him, because of his disconnected behaviour towards me. I did thank him for telling me what he told me. I make out I believe what he says.
I’m a real mess tonight and I can’t believe, I’ve lost myself in H’s baffling behaviour again. I’ve tried to stick to some of my principles from Divorce Busting. I’m so new that any information I retained earlier has just slipped like sand through my fingers. I got swept up in the fun of my marriage for a few months. I’ve lost my husband again though. It’s so painful. This week I have been going dark and not entering into any arguments. I have replied to 2 texts and haven’t initiated contact nor pursued. When I did respond to his texts, I spent much time, being extremely careful on what I was saying as not to antagonise; yet be truthful without saying it mean. I haven’t pursued him to organise anything with him over the next 4 days. We normally do 4 days a week together. I’ve decided to stand in my marriage and GAL, although I haven’t been that great at it lately. This week, I have been concentrating on doing this and I went back to Karate, DJing on hold. I’m now paying the Pipe Organ and having lots of fun with that.
Even though I stepped away for a few months, I did take away a few things with me. I don’t initiate anything with H as much as I did, although, I think this is creeping back to old behaviours for me given his behaviour at the moment. H does most of the calling when we are apart. I try to be upbeat, dress well. I don’t get involved with SIL about our problems and stay away from FIL and StepMIL. I don’t talk about XW at all. I do have a super Prayer life thanks to Divorce Busting. I was putting H as my Higher Power and not knowing it. How my day went was according to what he was doing. This is slowly creeping back into my life. I’m scared of becoming obsessed with H’s contact with his XW again because of his recent behaviour. I do not trust her one bit and I’m believing half of what he says. As I write, I just text H to say I appreciate him telling me his contact with her. I haven’t asked him about her since last year as he has been setting such amazing boundaries. H is a cake eater though and I’m wondering whether he is now cake eating with wanting to not sell his house and live over here and keep his old life which is tied up with her with his house? I’m sorry to all those who have been following. I left abruptly and didn’t answer to DnJ and Sunflyer. I suspect this happens all the time with Newcomers. I’m glad to be posting again and hoping somehow that what I write will help someone else. There is hope for our M because I saw it for 3 whole months and it was wonderful. Where to now? I would love some guidance from anyone who wishes to chime in again and give me some encouragement. Will reply to DnJ and Sunflyer tomorrow. Many blessings to you all. Kanga 😊
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Not guidance, but an aside. Pipe Organ? Playing? Sounds fun! How did this come about? I had some connection to one in high school and some of college. Google: pacific union college pipe organ and view some of the youtube videos. Then consider almost all the internals are manual/mechanical.
That giant array of huge to tiny pipes all working together to create a symphony of musical emotion was quite the experience.
g
H:54 W:50 D18, D17, S12 ILYBINILWY 3/2023 DB1 4/2023 DB1 rescinded 5/2023 DB2 6/2023 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-4 & W moves out 8/2023 – 2/2024 Draft settlement 3/2024
I’m glad you popped back in. I was wondering how things were going with you.
So a couple of months, starting around Christmas and New Year’s, of living together full time. Then, the second car is fixed, and back to the previous living arrangements. H decides to put his house on the market; which would indicate his is planning on you and he living together full time.
Somewhere during this, XW comes back into the picture. Even barging into your house, without asking, like she owns the place.
A couple of clarifying questions of residence ownership. (For now I’ll refer to H’s primary residence as H’s house, and similarly for you.) Are the two houses jointly owned by you and H? Or is H’s house joint between him and XW, or just his? Is your house solely owned by you?
Just wondering how convoluted the financial situation is. It sounds like you are not on H’s house and he has a mortgage. And he is stressed relating to his financial obligations. Any mortgage on your house, or do you own it outright?
XW’s barging in. No way! I’d be putting a stop to that behaviour!
I get how she has wormed her way, or whatever, to still come and go to the old family house. With his kids all moved out, her reasons for such are gone. Still, a weird arrangement H let go on far too long.
Your house. Your rules. XW stays away. Her popping up in H’s life all the time needs to be addressed and resolved before I’d let H move in. IMHO.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I don’t initiate anything with H as much as I did, although, I think this is creeping back to old behaviours for me given his behaviour at the moment. H does most of the calling when we are apart. I try to be upbeat, dress well. I don’t get involved with SIL about our problems and stay away from FIL and StepMIL. I don’t talk about XW at all.
Good. Get back to DB. And be firmly unwavering on your boundaries.
I agree with not involving the in-laws. H’s (and XW’s) behaviour has been going on long term. There are dynamics and unhealthy enabling that has, and is, occurring methinks.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I’m scared of becoming obsessed with H’s contact with his XW again because of his recent behaviour. I do not trust her one bit and I’m believing half of what he says.
Believe nothing he says, and only half of what he does. Let H’s actions demonstrate his intentions and direction. And ensure long term consistent demonstrated behaviour before you two move in together.
Six months, or a year, of consistent behaviour. No XW interference. No weird wild suspected cake eating. H needs to earn your trust, by demonstrating his trustworthiness. By being open and honest. And if he and XW get together inappropriately, the clock resets. Rock solid consequences are needed my dear.
Originally Posted by KangaB
As I write, I just text H to say I appreciate him telling me his contact with her. I haven’t asked him about her since last year as he has been setting such amazing boundaries. H is a cake eater though and I’m wondering whether he is now cake eating with wanting to not sell his house and live over here and keep his old life which is tied up with her with his house?
Like I said, I somewhat get how/why H and XW were closer while the kids were younger and living in his house. That reason is no more, kids moved out. Their relationship should just be a coparenting relationship, and that is now more financial guidance and security net, than day to day involvement and putting food on the table.
Originally Posted by KangaB
The last 4 weeks, H has been irritable, distant and picking fights again. All the hallmarks of reconnecting with XW behind my back. As we speak, I’m just in the process of asking him if he is speaking to XW behind my back again as his behaviour changes purely for this reason. I haven’t seen H for 6 days. He picked a fight and drove home the next day from my place. I set a hefty boundary and he didn’t like it and fumed home. Funnily, he spoke with XW tonight, but tells me this is the first time in a long time. He assured me during counselling that he was going to be transparent.
Look to his actions. Not his words.
Originally Posted by KangaB
There is hope for our M because I saw it for 3 whole months and it was wonderful. Where to now? I would love some guidance from anyone who wishes to chime in again and give me some encouragement.
Yes, there is hope.
And yes, there was three months of apparent good times. Then something happened behind the scenes with H. And H reverted to irritable and looking to fight again. (Boundaries! Let H slam against them. He stay out of the house when he’s like that!)
H was good for three months. Now make it a year H, and I’ll consider us getting back together and living together. If such a thought / statement seems like H would balk, why? If he is recommitting to the marriage he should have no problem with it. After all, that would be exactly what he is supposedly after.
Be firm. Remain kind. Give H time and space. H has stuff to sort out it seems. He is still baking.
Go back to you and your life. Focus on you and playing that pipe organ.
Have a great weekend.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I’m going to back re-read what you’ve wrote and thank you for replying. It’s now been 16 days since I’ve seen H. I’ve done some terrible begging and pleading in the last few days and have contacted our local Pastor who helped us and another counsellor who is helping us. I have reacted to everything he is throwing at me. I’m actually wondering if he has undiagnosed, untreated Bipolar? Looking back on our relationship, there is a pattern, the same one that has just played out again. I was looking back through my diaries and usually H picks a fight and it could be that he doesn’t like what I’m wearing or in the last instance, I turned away from showing a photo to him for 3 seconds. H stormed off and he left the house. My boundary was that he wasn’t allowed back in until he apologised which he didn’t, he just went home. Since then, (following from my last post), H has been in contact with XW a few times, one time he told me about and the other I checked the phone records. I know, I know!!! I did politely ask him about his calls and he refused to tell me only that it was about their daughter and that he would tell me another time. He has never done that before. I reacted so badly and took the bait. Through text messages I explained to him why I was upset, that he had promised to be transparent to the counsellor as I was to trust him. H also told both counsellor that I had kicked him out of the house. H is lying, gaslighting, stonewalling—it’s awful!!! I’m sure there is a pattern of Bipolar. H becomes irritable, extremely energetic, flirtatious, pushes me away, spends money like it’s out of fashion, reconnects with XW and then depression hits and he is remorseful for everything. You couldn’t meet a nicer man when he is remorseful.
I’m so upset with myself for not doing the things I need to be doing with my 180’s and DBing. I was really thrown by this latest behaviour because we had lived together for 3 months and it was the best time. I have reacted so badly. He hasn’t made any effort to communicate only that I need to apologise to him for vile and spit he calls it, that I made about him and is XW communicating. The bottom line is that H has pushed me away again and his XW has something to do with it.
DnJ… to answer about the house situation. I own my house and land. XW is still on the title and mortgage of his. We all want that to change. XW claims she hates his house and wants nothing to do with it, other than barging in whenever she wants to. And to clarify SD was staying the weekend which is why XW barged in. She wouldn’t do that if the kids weren’t at H’s place.
I just can’t believe, I have begged and pleaded for him to contact me and to reconnect when he is being such an arse. I did actually apologise for keeping him out of the house when he was being so nasty. He in fact left the house and then wanted to come back in at 2am and demanded to be let in because he had no gas to get home. He was so rude, I just couldn’t let him in and he was angry.
Our plan since I thought we might have been piecing (how naive of me), is to sell the house and H moves across to me as a form of semi-retirement for him. However, I did notice that the plans on his side were wavering, where he was unsure about coming across and living with me, only a few weeks before him picking a fight.
As I said, I will re-read what DnJ has written. Sage advice. I’m extremely sad and lost. It’s coming up Easter and we have always spent Easter together for 9 years. I just can’t believe I’m here again not having a M and feeling like I’m up against XW.
Does anyone have any thoughts about Bipolar and M problems like this. Does it make any difference to course of action when it comes to doing 180’s and DBing?
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Yes amazing instrument and I’m having a Spiritual experience with it. I’m not sure if that’s the same for those who live in the same street as the church or people working in the church!!! I was very fortunate to be considered trustworthy enough with this magnificent instrument which has about 60 pipes. I’m not sure what make it is or anything like that. I’m just having a go. I’ve been watching lots of YouTubes on professionals playing and demonstrating.
All of this came about because I took an in-law and H to a recital where the Pipe Organ was playing and fell in love with Widor Toccata in F maj. I also volunteer at the church where I play this organ and asked the committee if they would take me on. Anyhow… thanks for asking. Will check your recommendation and thank you for chiming in.
And yes it is very cool as DnJ put it. I had the full support from H to play it and now he has said he doesn’t like me playing because he doesn’t think it’s cool. What the hell goes on in people’s minds to be so inconsistent? It does my head in.
I was so hoping that when H and I were together over the last 3 months that I could prove you all wrong here. What a fool I am.
Btw the Grok, I have never chimed in on other’s posts because I really don’t have any advice to give away yet. I do hope your sitch will get better and you will be at peace with it. Someday when I get the hang of this, I won’t be so absorbed with my stuff and contribute to other’s posts.
Kanga
Me 49 H 61 T 8yrs M 1.5yrs LAT H filed for D from XW ‘18, granted ‘19 We M ‘22 H in EA with XW (lying about contact, evidence of Affair contact) BD Aug ‘23
Does anyone have any thoughts about Bipolar and M problems like this. Does it make any difference to course of action when it comes to doing 180’s and DBing?
It is common for folks to ask themselves questions like this. To seek the ultimate answer to "why they behave the way they do". Let that need for an answer go. Shift the focus back to you. The answer doesn't matter. What matters is treatment you allow in your life.
Kanga - there is no doubt that you have encounter a large emotional hit by your H. For that - I am sorry. It's a devastating feeling thinking something has changed and then feeling you have hit square 1.
From the bleacher seats - it seems like struggle to set boundaries for yourself and the boundaries you do set are form of control versus a protection of your heart. This make sense as your H is quite the boundary pusher and has likely been used to "having his way" for a long time in your marriage. It also seems like you are willing to push the boundaries you have set for yourself. This is just gonna lead to long term suffering for a very short term game.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I just can’t believe, I have begged and pleaded for him to contact me and to reconnect when he is being such an arse. I did actually apologise for keeping him out of the house when he was being so nasty. He in fact left the house and then wanted to come back in at 2am and demanded to be let in because he had no gas to get home. He was so rude, I just couldn’t let him in and he was angry.
Why did YOU apologize? Can you see how badly your H has manipulated the situation that you believe it's your fault. Stop that. He's an adult. He wants to act like an a$$ - he has his own home to go to.
Originally Posted by KangaB
As I said, I will re-read what DnJ has written. Sage advice. I’m extremely sad and lost. It’s coming up Easter and we have always spent Easter together for 9 years. I just can’t believe I’m here again not having a M and feeling like I’m up against XW.
You are not up against your XW. Yes - she is difficult but she is NOT the problem. Your H's ability to cut the cord with her is. Keep your focus there. And don't let her into her house. Your H may allow her to push him around - but not you.
Originally Posted by KangaB
Our plan since I thought we might have been piecing (how naive of me), is to sell the house and H moves across to me as a form of semi-retirement for him. However, I did notice that the plans on his side were wavering, where he was unsure about coming across and living with me, only a few weeks before him picking a fight..
There should be at least 6 months of changed behavior and you should be able to clearly feel the difference. It does seem like you provided a solution to him for awhile versus him making a decision to come back into the relationship?
You will KNOW when he has changed. You won't have to guess. You will know on if he has finally cut off his relationship with his XW. You will know when he's done being a man child and owns up to his part... but that won't happen until after his thrown his fits, gaslight you, manipulated you, and any other behavior he has always done and your response is strong and unwavering.
And I will end with this. You can't expect people to treat you a way you aren't willing to treat yourself. You can't expect your H to respect you - if you don't respect yourself. So start with you respecting yourself and then expand to others.
You have to care about your well-being more than your marriage. Sometimes when you do this - the WAS wakes up and decides to come along for the ride. But either way - you deserve a life of peace and love... and that is a happy ending only YOU can provide.
(((K)))
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
I’m just having a go. I’ve been watching lots of YouTubes on professionals playing and demonstrating.
This is awesome! Because it is you. Because you want to.
Originally Posted by KangaB
What the hell goes on in people’s minds to be so inconsistent? It does my head in.
I think most people here over the years would say the same. You look for logic and understanding. So do I. Over the last year I keep reviewing the threads saying stop it, those is the wrong questions to ask and eventually those won't matter so much. I remain a work in progress.
Originally Posted by KangaB
I was so hoping that when H and I were together over the last 3 months that I could prove you all wrong here. What a fool I am.
No, not a fool. We wouldn't be here otherwise and the future is unwritten no matter what the probabilities. I mean, how likely did we think our W or H would do what they did?
I have been contemplating hope vs expectations for a year now. My WW told my D18 and D17 "I have to make sure G has no hope" outright the first night she asked for a separation. And then became very cold overnight. She stayed that way for over two months to keep herself on her course. (A funny aside, I could tell when she let go the tight coldness a little, relaxed a little, because she stopped wearing a bra with her PJs at night) She carefully asked once, around month four, did I still have hope, had I given it up? I thought a moment and said, "No, it is that I don't have expectations." I think she took is as I didn't have expectations of an outcome. I also meant I was letting go of expectations of her personally. I didn't clarify. Maybe I should have. I don't know.
I keep this and several others on tap to re-read for myself periodically. It's all worth a read to keep centered.
Originally Posted by Zues126
In conclusion, if you are seeing signs that your spouse wants to return, post all about it here. Get it out of your system. Overreact on these forums. Tell us how it's going to work out after all, that we were wrong, that YOU KNEW your WAS, you KNEW they would fall back into your arms, that you think you are in piecing, etc, etc, etc. But please, for all that is good and holy, stay detached from them outwardly and give them time to see if they actually recommit, show true remorse, and prove it to you with consistent behavior over time. Keeping DBing and may you make it to the other side, whatever lies ahead.
Btw the Grok, I have never chimed in on other’s posts because I really don’t have any advice to give away yet.
Me either. And I'm in it, just like you.
Smarts I have. Wisdom I'm not so sure of or I wouldn't be here in this Grief. W and I have ~140+ IQ which helps many things... but not this. Smarts brings it's own set of issues - decision paralysis, not being able to figure out the right level of communication (you are either condecending or no one understands what you just said), W told me I was too sweetly logical so she stopped trying to tell me she was unhappy, etc...
But stepping out of my comfort zone I can post to say I see you K, I hear you K. I can show some of the inner me.
g
Last edited by grok; 03/29/2401:53 AM.
H:54 W:50 D18, D17, S12 ILYBINILWY 3/2023 DB1 4/2023 DB1 rescinded 5/2023 DB2 6/2023 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-4 & W moves out 8/2023 – 2/2024 Draft settlement 3/2024
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