My Story

[Sunflyer]

Good Morning SF

It’s time to back off with W. Way off! Lots of time and space. Look up last resort technique (LRT) in DR for ideas of how to implement that. W has stated in pretty certain terms that she wants to be separated, she’s even arranged/asked for a loan from her parents for the lawyer retainer.

I know this is going to feel odd, feel counterintuitive: Any pressure or rational discussion/reasons to stick together will only push her out the door faster. She needs to feel what it’s like to be separated, and then realize that separation isn’t the answer to her unhappiness.

You cannot do that for her. You didn’t break her, therefore you cannot fix her. She’s on her path, and on her timeline.

I fully understand that I cannot pressure her. This is the first R talk since she first mentioned splitting three weeks ago. I closed the subject down and let her come to me.

If W is after an amicable split, like her proposed usage of a mediator suggests, a separation agreement should be straightforward. You two can basically self mediate/resolve/sort things out. Or you can’t. If it’s the latter, and I mean seriously the latter (cannot/will not agree), then lawyers will be required anyhow.

As mentioned in a previous post, I found some notes in her planner where she was working through a possible scenario. Don't know if what she comes back with will be exactly this, but key points are:

Custody--joint, straight 50/50

House--she wants it, to buy me out (which will mean more $ from her parents since our house is worth in the ballpark of 500K)

Retirement--we each keep our own IRA's. She also has a 401k, and I have a small 403b from a previous job and proposes we each keep those. She would claim a portion of my pension. Theoretically I could retire in four years, but with child support for our youngest going another seven years, that ain't happening. Probably going to be in the work force until 67-70 unless my health gives out first

Inheritance--I have an inheritance from my mother (my share of the proceeds from the sale of her house when she died), and proposal is that I would keep all of it provided that the boys are named 50/50 beneficiaries

Older son's car--me to pay half the remaining loan payment or have same deducted from house buyout

Health insurance for boys--I am required to maintain; hopefully would be able to keep them on my work plan

Out of pocket medical, college, and gift expenses to be 50/50 split

Plus the usual 50/50 split of checking and savings accounts.

The lawyer I have spoken with indicates that spousal support is not on the table at the present time as we both make six figure salaries that are close. I guess she could suddenly decide to quit her job, but the combined child and spousal support she would get would still fall significantly short of what she now makes.

Really focus on you and the kids. W is firing you as husband. Do not be her backup plan, nor her support person. Let her do for herself. You cannot woo her back with flowers and such. In fact, you know where that kind of behaviour will lead you. So, you take a different path forward. Time and space. Focus on you. GAL. And maybe, she awakens. Or maybe not. Yet, either way, you will be ok.

This is not the end. Just a bump in the road.

D

No wooing or begging going on. I am trusting that you are correct about the bump in the road. It seems odd, but I felt a release when she finished talking, rather than more sadness.

[DnJ]

Hello SF

The key points that W had mentioned in her planner do sound like 50/50. I’ll pass on a few things I learnt and experienced along my journey, such as they are as locales do have differing rules on certain items. I found it comforting to know someone else had gone through this before. Anyhow,

The insurance on your boys is likely mandatory. Children’s rights and protections are usually ensured and are not subject to waiver or negotiation. The kids should automatically remain on your work plan, regardless of martial status. In fact, once I retired, my younger kids’ enrolment on to my retirement insurance was mandatory as well.

Your inheritance should be completely your’s. That is for the dollars in an account. Anything you’ve invested or spent upon martial assets, like house renovations, becomes part of that joint asset.

Checking and savings accounts are allocated according to name on the account, regardless of who actually deposited the funds or the intended purpose of the funds.

With similar incomes and pensions your future finances sound pretty much like what you current have. I’d not balk at an agreement. Financial security is important, and as time goes on, most spouse’s generosity goes too.

It seems odd, but I felt a release when she finished talking, rather than more sadness.

Uncertainty does increase one’s anxiety. Knowing, even the unwanted news/information about what W is thinking/planning, lessens the uncertainty of it all. And information is power.

I am trusting that you are correct about the bump in the road.

Yes, merely a bump in your road.

Things aren’t done until you say so. You can stand for as long as you like. You can stand down whenever you like. You control you. Where there is love, there is hope. And hope is timeless.

As I said, from someone who has gone before, this is a bump in the road. It will be very life altering. And if you follow DB principles, a most positive life altering.

Hang in there.

D

[Sunflyer]

W asked me yesterday if I had thought more about what she proposed. I said I was still processing. It is obvious she wants to move the divorce forward.

When she asks again, I will make it clear that if she wants to separate that I will not be moving out as long as D is not final. She can move out, and I will help her do it.

I have, however, been mulling whether or not to suggest a trial separation. This would require her to "put down the weapon" for a while, so to speak. My feeling is that she would not go for that.

Assuming the latter, then I am inclined to simply let things go forward while I work on preparing for a fulfilling life without her, and see if she awakens at some point.

She really seems confused. Frankly, sometimes I feel more sorry for her than myself. Still does not know if D will fix her unhappiness. Still doesn't know what she wants out of life. Started crying the other day and let an "I love you" slip, the first one I've heard in a long while.

I found some old emails from her; one was written when we were making up after some fight. It was almost shocking to read the words she wrote compared to what she says and feels now. I feel like I'm living in the movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers," where people are replaced by alien duplicates, and their friends, husbands, wives, etc. just know that these aren't the people they've known for years.

[Ready2Change]

W asked me yesterday if I had thought more about what she proposed. I said I was still processing. It is obvious she wants to move the divorce forward.

Perfect.

When she asks again, I will make it clear that if she wants to separate that I will not be moving out as long as D is not final. She can move out, and I will help her do it.

H:"I am happy here. If separating is the only way to make you happy, I will help you move out."

I really like the statement above. You are happy, even when she is not. You let her know indirectly that there are other solutions to her unhappiness. You will help her even if you disagree with her. Facial expressions, infections, body language are even more important than the words. PuppyDogTails talked about how he would practice in the mirror.

I have, however, been mulling whether or not to suggest a trial separation. This would require her to "put down the weapon" for a while, so to speak. My feeling is that she would not go for that.

I strongly suggest not suggesting "trial". It is counter intuitive, but you projecting an excitement for your new freedom would be better.
H:"W, I think it would be best if you found your own place as soon as possible." This kind of statement comes from your belief that you do not want to be with a woman who does not want to be with you.

Two of my early DBing mantras:

"I do not want to be with a woman who does not want to be with me."
"I do not share my woman with other men (or other women)."

These are part of my core beliefs that I had to clarify after BD. Get yours nailed down during this process.



Also, the less words, the better. Use just enough to get your point across.

You can keep deflecting, until you have made a decision.

"I am still thinking."
"I have not decided"

"This is an important decision. You have had lots of time to think about this. This is all new to me and I need more time."

Started crying the other day and let an "I love you" slip, the first one I've heard in a long while.

Just be the emotional rock during this process. Now is the time to project strength through adversity. Jordan perter son talks of facing the dragon.

"Invasion of the Body Snatchers," where people are replaced by alien duplicates, and their friends, husbands, wives, etc. just know that these aren't the people they've known for years.

So your wife wants to leave the person she knows the most about. You have to embrace just as many changes to you. She needs to see you as someone completely new.

"I have never seen you iron in my life" was one of the statement that stands out from my X. Be new, exciting, different. Surprise her.

[Kind18]

As usual, R2C is right about everything. DB is a completely different way of thinking.

"I have never seen you iron in my life" was one of the statement that stands out.

The problem with these kinds of statements is that they are generally a no win situation. A WAW just wants to watch the world burn. After making a statement like this about ironing, consider the two responses a LBH could give:

1. Do nothing. And when you don’t leap into action and do all the ironing yourself, she sees this as you not caring about how she feels. You haven’t listened. So you’re vindicating her decision to leave.
2. You suddenly start doing all the ironing. But then she sees you as a weak, easy to manipulate man. You’re just doing it to win her back. If you’d cared you would have done it before bomb day.

See the problem with a WAW? By the time she gets to BD, no matter what you do, you’re wrong. Either you haven’t listened because you’re a pig, or you’re just trying to trick her back to the marriage and she can’t trust you.

This is why LBH tie themselves up in knots. Because they’re trying to make an impossibly unhappy person happy.

There is actually another option:

3. Take your stuff to the dry cleaner for ironing and pay $10-$20/week to get your shirts and pants pressed. Don’t tell her, just take them, get them done, and pick them up.

It proves you have listened to her complain about ironing. But you aren’t being weak and beta by trying to do everything yourself to keep her happy. Plus it proves you are a strong man and can manage your life without her.

One of the DB skills I wished I’d mastered earlier was identifying traps and impossible situations. If my now ex-wife sends be a text message along the same lines (wanting an argument, or where I picture any reply I give she will find fault with) - then I just hit delete and ignore it.

I have, however, been mulling whether or not to suggest a trial separation.

Don’t suggest a trial separation. It will sound to her like you’re pretending to listen but your real end goal is to get her back. She won’t feel heard.

She really seems confused. Frankly, sometimes I feel more sorry for her than myself. Still does not know if D will fix her unhappiness. Still doesn't know what she wants out of life. Started crying the other day and let an "I love you" slip, the first one I've heard in a long while.

Don’t mull on this. All you’re doing is hurting yourself. She needs to work out what she wants from life by herself.

I found some old emails from her; one was written when we were making up after some fight. It was almost shocking to read the words she wrote compared to what she says and feels now. I feel like I'm living in the movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers," where people are replaced by alien duplicates, and their friends, husbands, wives, etc. just know that these aren't the people they've known for years.

Again, all you’re doing is hurting yourself.

One of the worst things about being a LBS is the speed at which your life gets turned upside down. We CRAVE things to be like they used to be, so sometimes we read old messages or letters or look at photos because it allows us to disappear temporarily from this place of pain and uncertainty and change.

But all you’re doing this hurting yourself. Looking at old letters or emails is like taking drugs for a short term fix. Might make you feel better, might allow you to disappear into a place of comfort temporarily, but you’ll just end up with a hangover and feeling even worse afterwards.

Bomb drop is bomb drop. Drop the rope and know that moving forward rather than trying to disappear back is actually more likely to bring a successful reconciliation.

If you’re having great difficulty with thinking a lot about the past, read my exercise thread which has a technique for controlling rumination.

[Ready2Change]

3. Take your stuff to the dry cleaner for ironing and pay $10-$20/week to get your shirts and pants pressed. Don’t tell her, just take them, get them done, and pick them up.

Yup. A few new items of clothing a week helps as well.

[Sunflyer]

Don’t suggest a trial separation. It will sound to her like you’re pretending to listen but your real end goal is to get her back. She won’t feel heard.

Didn't think it was the best option, but thought I'd get some feedback.

So this puts me back to advocating her moving out, if she really wants separation, while continuing to stall her D proceedings.

I have all the patience in the world. I am used to working and waiting years to get what I want. She isn't. There is a good chance her temper will flare and her resentment will grow as I continue to process things.

Her reasoning is that she doesn't want an acrimonious, lengthy court battle. Wants to basically self-mediate. Says it would be so much easier for her to make the break if I was a jerk rather than the good person I am.

If you’re having great difficulty with thinking a lot about the past, read my exercise thread which has a technique for controlling rumination.

I found this thread and will try that.

I wasn't looking for the old emails, btw. They were in a separate folder online that I'd forgotten about until I spotted it the other day. Most of them were about mundane things.

[Kind18]

So this puts me back to advocating her moving out, if she really wants separation, while continuing to stall her D proceedings.

In the majority of cases, kicking them out is actually the fastest route to a reconciliation. A WAS/WS has to walk a journey of pain to realise that you aren’t the reason for their unhappiness. You can accelerate them on that journey by giving them what they want.

But I wouldn’t advocate “stalling” the divorce. Just don’t accelerate it. She wants the divorce, she can do the work. If you deliberately stall it, all she sees is a man who is prolonging her pain. She’ll continue to build resentment against you, and reconciliation will be less likely.

Her reasoning is that she doesn't want an acrimonious, lengthy court battle. Wants to basically self-mediate. Says it would be so much easier for her to make the break if I was a jerk rather than the good person I am.

You are definitely going to get a better deal in the early stages, and without lawyer involvement. I get that you aren’t ready for this, but the longer you hold out, the more likely she will want more, become more acrimonious and get lawyers involved.

The problem with lawyers is that they get paid the most when it gets drawn out for a long time, so they’ll encourage you two to fight and argue to line their own pockets.

If a wayward gives an offer early on, they’re likely in a hurry because they want to start their new relationship ASAP. And that’s likely the best offer you’re going to get. No matter how much you don’t want a divorce, if she’s wanting to mediate a solution ASAP and outside lawyers and the court system, you’d be well advised to consider accepting it.

[Sunflyer]

But I wouldn’t advocate “stalling” the divorce. Just don’t accelerate it. She wants the divorce, she can do the work. If you deliberately stall it, all she sees is a man who is prolonging her pain. She’ll continue to build resentment against you, and reconciliation will be less likely.

That's exactly my concern.

So I guess if she wants to discuss terms, I tell her that I am open to discussing terms, while leaving the work up to her.

[Ready2Change]

So I guess if she wants to discuss terms, I tell her that I am open to discussing terms, while leaving the work up to her.

I strongly suggest that you do not have discussions. Ask her for her proposal in writing and you will review it. You can then respond in writing.

"I do not have time to discuss this right now. Send me an email and I will review your proposal...I got to go." then go do something. Stay busy. Be productive. Be on purpose.