I'm Back! (2)

[Ready2Change]

When you got 50/50, was/is it exactly 50/50? I've read stories that guys have got that decision, but it was still more like 80/20.

Close to 182/183. I believe that frequent and equal time with both parents is best for the child unless one of the parents is toxic.

"It's yours to loose" are wise words from my lawyer.

Right now you have 100% parenting time if you choose. Let W do whatever she wants. You spend all your time parenting your child.

I see three things can change that:

1) You make agreements with W about parenting time.
2) A judge makes a decision about your parenting time.
3) A restraining order.

At the end of the day, your time with your son during the next few years is what is important.

There is infinite money out there, but only a limited amount of time left to be an active part of your sons life.

[Terapin]

When you got 50/50, was/is it exactly 50/50? I've read stories that guys have got that decision, but it was still more like 80/20.

Close to 182/183. I believe that frequent and equal time with both parents is best for the child unless one of the parents is toxic.

"It's yours to loose" are wise words from my lawyer.

Right now you have 100% parenting time if you choose. Let W do whatever she wants. You spend all your time parenting your child.

I see three things can change that:

1) You make agreements with W about parenting time.
2) A judge makes a decision about your parenting time.
3) A restraining order.

At the end of the day, your time with your son during the next few years is what is important.

There is infinite money out there, but only a limited amount of time left to be an active part of your sons life.

I'd never try to keep our son away from his mother, unless she completely goes off the deep end. I would absolutely like full custody, but I know that's not in his best interest. i'd think my W, who's a professional therapist/child counselor, would feel the same.

[Terapin]

Steve, like I said, a part of me will never forgive her for this (actually twice in 5 years). When I look at this without any emotion, what I see is a selfish woman who rarely wants sex, doesn't cook, drinks every night, has a ton of debt, and has put me through the ringer for 20 straight years. Emotionally I want to save the M for the sake of the family, and I do love her. But rationally, Art Carney can have her too.

You need to work through this duplicity in counseling. You can't here saying you didn't want to see the marriage (or at least that was what you thought you "wanted"). But everytime you found evidence that she was planning on D you seemed disappointed. We respond to your disappointment and then you claim you really don't want to save it.

I get that you're confused but the advice you receive can only be about what you are currently posting. Heck you even said to her that since things had been better you thought things were going to work out!

If you're confused, and we're confused, I can guarantee you that so it's she!

Let's recap:

T comes here talking and BD #2.
T doesn't know if he wants to save them marriage.
T's wife starts being nice.
T seems to be happy about things being better.
T keeps getting disappointed when he finds evidence that his wife is still contemplating D.
T's W finally sits him down to reiterate that her plan is to D.
T comes here deflated.
T gets advice that things are really no different than before the sit down.
T insists that he still isn't sure if he wants to save the marriage.

Look at the first line. Look at the list line. Ask them lines in between are meaningless! You are in the same position now as you were when you first came back to the board.

We've seen several situations like this. Where the LBS thinks that a sit down talk is the WAS moving the D forward. Reverb though it's still all talk and inaction on them WAS's part.

My advice. Work through what you really want in IC. If D is what your want then go make that happen. If you want to try to save it, DB your butt off. But stop being a casual observer of your own life, be an active participant. Because my fear is that in a few more weeks we'll be having the same discussion and exchange.

Tldr; You're stuck in place.

Yeah, I am confused. Of course if we saved the M, BOTH made changes, and lived happily ever after, that would be my choice. And I do get blinded by that pipe dream. But I know it's not reality, because honestly in 15 years, she's never really met me halfway. Hell, even a quarter of the way. And that's what's makes me think it's not worth saving. You're right, I need to go to IC.

I'm glad you broke things down like this. It's kinda funny to see that 6 weeks on the roller coaster, and I'm still in the exact place I started. I really need to make a decision and stick with it.

Thanks!

[Terapin]

Just got back from sons football game. W was there, but then went to a friends to hang out and likely get hammered.

Found out she's been secretly saving up money, and is borrowing more from her parents to pay a retainer fee next week.

Steve, I think the decision is being made for me, and that's fine.

My question is, so when she files and I get served, will that include any kind of written proposals for what she's going to expect/ask for (custody, assets, etc)? Or does that stuff come later?

[SteveLW]

I'm definitely not aD expert. But that last question is what I'm talking about!! Go get prepared and YOU have those written proposals ready!!

[DnJ]

Good Morning T

I hated handing over $200, but I think it was well worth it. Kudos to my W though, cause she had basically everything printed out and organized for the lawyer. My biggest concern is my son, and she said 50/50 is almost guaranteed. My other big concern was our debt. Our normal debt (credit cards, etc) would be split, but her $170,000 student loan would go with her. I wouldn't/shouldn't be responsible for any of it. She said since W makes more money, has a higher earning potential, and has more in her 401k than I do, the only one that could receive alimony or child support would be me if I wanted to pursue it (I don't), and I'd be entitled to the difference in our 401k's (about $6000). She also laughed when I told her about W tellign her lawyer about speeding the process along due to a 'lack of physical intimacy'. She said even if she files, the process will go as fast or as slow as I want.

I didn't pay the retainer fee yet, but if W continues with this I'm confident in this lady. She also said W's lawyer is very reasonable and likely wouldn't push to fight for much.

I’d suggest paying the retainer fee and asking your lawyer about being served and the legal process in your locale.

Having legal representation from early on can prove very beneficial if things take unforeseen turns. And it is less stressful upon you, as you have a lawyer looking after the details, paperwork, filing, deadlines, and such (oh, there is so much to disentangle when dissolving a marriage). With that looked after, you just provide certain decisions when those times come along.


From my layman’s understanding, and my experiences, being served means W has actually filed the divorce petition before the courts. You are being served notice of needing to respond. Yes, the details of the proposal would be provided, and there is a deadline to it. A timeframe is which you need to reply back to the courts. If you agree with said proposal, you sign and the courts look it over, and likely approve it. If you do not agree, you can counter propose. Of course, this being before the courts limits how long and how many back and forth you and she can make; the court has lots to do and is there to make judgements, not waste time.

Being presented (not served) a proposal from W, or her lawyer, is much more in the realm of negotiating. Basically, usually, her lawyer would send your lawyer a signed proposal of the splitting up of all martial assets. Proposals/splitting/waving of titles, deeds, loans, accounts, investments, vehicles, custody, pensions, homesteader rights, and on and on. Like I previously said, lots to disentangle. (My divorce was really straightforward, and it still accumulated to around 50 pages.)

If W’s proposal is acceptable, you sign, and you have a binding separation agreement. Note, in some locales there is not a legal separation or a one year cool down before divorce, it is just straight to divorced. In this case, this still allows for back and forth negotiating, finding mutually agreement, before presenting to the courts.

If the proposal is not acceptable, your lawyer (with your decisions) makes some revisions, and forwards a signed by you proposal back to W’s lawyer. If she agrees, she signs, and the binding agreement is done.

This review and revision can continue as long as you two want. Each modifying the proposal. Ethical lawyers will coach you as to what is likely to just prolong things, while less than stellar lawyers will be more than happy to be confrontational while racking up billable hours. No point fighting and spending thousands over a toaster. (My lawyer’s upfront retainer/fee/cost was a flat fee for everything that would be needed to get a separation agreement outside of a courtroom. If we ended up in court, those hours would be charged above that.)

With a signed by both parties separation agreement, the lawyers also sign and swear they provided individual legal counsel, and you entered into this agreement of your own volition and free from coercion. The document is filed before the courts and you are separated.

There is a year long cool down period, in which if the partners live together for 90 days, the separation agreement automatically becomes null and void. Nothing legally has happened, after all you are still married during this time.

After the one year cool down period, then either party can file for divorce. Neither has to, and without filing you are legally married and separated. Some folks find this position fulfils certain religious requirements of their’s. However, when one files, it now truly goes before the courts and they rule upon it. If they agree with the separation, the divorce is granted and becomes legal, dissolving the marriage.

When I went through my separation and divorce, I had no idea what the process was. And I was pretty darn emotionally compromised too.

Divorce will likely be the biggest financial decision of your life. My advice is to hire a lawyer and offload the work horse portion of this business to one who actually does this stuff for a living.

Hope this helps. Take care.

D

[Terapin]

Hey D. Thanks. Yeah, it's all really overwhelming. and this doesn't even take into consideration splitting the household assets and stuff.

Since, unlike my W, I haven't secretly been stashing money, I'm going to have to get some stuff together quickly. I also saw on her texts that the attorney she had a consult with isn't the one that's representing her. It's the attorney she worked for for years. And lol at him still charging her the full retainer feel. She probably thought he'd do it for free.

I have a call in to meet with another recommended attorney. Hopefully he does a free consult. And I guess when I get served, then I just pay the retainer of whichever L I choose and take the info to him/her?

Anyway, D, Steve, etc, thanks for all the info and advice. I feel like I'm hijacking the board or something, cause this is a 'divorce busting' site and not divorce advice site. So D (or whichever mod), I can stop posting here if this is inappropriate for the forum

[Ready2Change]

My question is, so when she files and I get served, will that include any kind of written proposals for what she's going to expect/ask for (custody, assets, etc)? Or does that stuff come later?

Speaking in layman terms,describe the divorce process starting when one spouse files divorce papers and the other is served.


Certainly! Please note that divorce processes can vary depending on the jurisdiction, so it's important to consult with a legal professional in your specific area for accurate advice. That being said, I can provide a general overview of the divorce process after one spouse files divorce papers and the other is served.

Filing the Petition: The spouse initiating the divorce, known as the petitioner or plaintiff, files a petition for divorce with the appropriate court. The petition outlines the grounds for divorce, requests for child custody, support, property division, and any other relevant issues.

Serving the Divorce Papers: Once the petition is filed, the petitioner ensures that the divorce papers are served to the other spouse, known as the respondent or defendant. This is usually done through a process server or a designated individual approved by the court to deliver the papers. Proper service is important to ensure that the respondent is aware of the divorce proceedings.

Respondent's Response: After being served with the divorce papers, the respondent has a certain period, typically 30 days, to respond. The response may include an answer to the petition, addressing the issues raised by the petitioner, and potentially a counterclaim if the respondent wishes to raise additional claims or requests.

Discovery and Disclosure: Both spouses, along with their attorneys, engage in the process of discovery and disclosure. This involves gathering and exchanging relevant information, such as financial documents, property valuations, and other evidence related to child custody or support matters. This stage aims to ensure both parties have a complete understanding of the marital assets and liabilities.

Negotiations and Settlement: Once the necessary information is exchanged, negotiations may take place between the spouses and their attorneys to reach a settlement agreement. The agreement covers issues such as property division, alimony, child custody, child support, and visitation rights. If both parties can agree on all terms, they may present the settlement agreement to the court for approval.

Mediation or Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR): If the parties are unable to reach a settlement through negotiations, they may opt for mediation or other forms of ADR. A neutral third party, the mediator, helps facilitate discussions between the spouses to reach an agreement. Mediation can be helpful in resolving disputes without going to trial.

Trial: If a settlement cannot be reached through negotiations or mediation, the divorce case may proceed to trial. Each spouse presents their case before a judge, who will make decisions on contested issues, such as property division, child custody, and support. The court will consider the evidence and arguments presented by both sides before issuing a final judgment.

Finalizing the Divorce: Once the court makes a decision or the parties reach a settlement agreement, a final judgment of divorce is issued. This judgment legally ends the marriage and addresses all the issues resolved during the divorce process, including child custody, support, property division, and alimony.

It's essential to note that this is a simplified overview, and the actual divorce process can involve more steps and complexities. Consulting with a family law attorney in your jurisdiction will provide you with specific guidance tailored to your situation.

[DnJ]

Hello T

You are welcome to post and ask questions regarding divorce and it’s proceeding. A few things for you to consider:

You aren’t presently divorced. W might push for it, she might delay it, it might even fall off her radar for a while. You are gaining knowledge of the process, letting her lead, and responding when needed is all.

Reconciliation can still occur even after a separation/divorce. Divorce does not necessarily constitute the end. As long as there is love, there is hope. You can still divorce bust even when divorced or preparing for one. Divorce/separation is just the business side of all this. The emotional/healing journey is the true landscape of DB.

One of the first harsh truths of divorce busting is that DB can/will absolutely save you; the marriage is a bonus. The reason is pretty evident, it takes two for a marriage and only one for a divorce.

Embrace DB, become the best possible you. A man only a fool would leave. It’s not a guarantee, however it is pretty much the best chance at reconciling.

Hang in there T. And keep posting. It does get better.

D

[Terapin]

Hello T

You are welcome to post and ask questions regarding divorce and it’s proceeding. A few things for you to consider:

You aren’t presently divorced. W might push for it, she might delay it, it might even fall off her radar for a while. You are gaining knowledge of the process, letting her lead, and responding when needed is all.

Reconciliation can still occur even after a separation/divorce. Divorce does not necessarily constitute the end. As long as there is love, there is hope. You can still divorce bust even when divorced or preparing for one. Divorce/separation is just the business side of all this. The emotional/healing journey is the true landscape of DB.

One of the first harsh truths of divorce busting is that DB can/will absolutely save you; the marriage is a bonus. The reason is pretty evident, it takes two for a marriage and only one for a divorce.

Embrace DB, become the best possible you. A man only a fool would leave. It’s not a guarantee, however it is pretty much the best chance at reconciling.

Hang in there T. And keep posting. It does get better.

D

Thanks. Appreciate it.

It really pisses me off that she's been secretly stashing money to prepare for this. She certainly doesn't seem bothered by what this is going to do to our son, our family, friends, me, etc. It's all about how she 'feels'. I'm so mad that our son is going to go from living in a beautiful home in a great neighborhood to splitting time between two apartments or slum houses.

Every day I develop more and more resentments for her. I don't think I'd ever want to reconcile. I've put up with her crap for far too long.