I'm Back! (2)

[Ready2Change]

So what now? I don't want things to be cold and mean around here. I think from now on, it's just all business. I'll be nice and cordial, but that's it.

I believe you should have an epiphany. You are now excited and looking forward to your freedom. Do whatever you want. Her input no longer matters to you, unless it is parenting related.

[Terapin]

Thanks guys.

Steve, like I said, a part of me will never forgive her for this (actually twice in 5 years). When I look at this without any emotion, what I see is a selfish woman who rarely wants sex, doesn't cook, drinks every night, has a ton of debt, and has put me through the ringer for 20 straight years. Emotionally I want to save the M for the sake of the family, and I do love her. But rationally, Art Carney can have her too.

Kind, there is no money for anything like that right now. lol. But believe me, when this is settled and I'm back on my feet, there are things I've wanted for years that I could never get since it was more important for W to buy her 52nd pair of shoes.

R2C, that's one thing I havent' researched; a DIY D. One of the weirdest things about all of this is, she worked for a L for like 10 years as a legal secretary. The L is still practicing, and would probably cut her a big break. Yet she's using someone else.

R2C, she thought I did have an epiphany! The same epiphany that she had. She will probably back off of the 'niceness' now, and guarantee she'll expect me to. But I'm going to keep the same demeanor, and just go about my business like I've been.

[Terapin]

W left her ipad on the table and this morning i logged in. Did a quick search history and it seems she was looking at 'how to win full custody' websites last night. Great. Guess it's time to prepare for war and drop the carefree 'as if' attitude.

[Dats000]

Kind, there is no money for anything like that right now. lol. But believe me, when this is settled and I'm back on my feet, there are things I've wanted for years that I could never get since it was more important for W to buy her 52nd pair of shoes.

Been separated, different houses, taking on our own financial expenses for a few months. So amazing how much money W spent on clothes hair etc.. She did that as much as she wanted. I didn’t spend much on me. Now it is time.

[DnJ]

Hello T

W left her ipad on the table and this morning i logged in. Did a quick search history and it seems she was looking at 'how to win full custody' websites last night. Guess it's time to prepare for war and drop the carefree 'as if' attitude.

You should definitely prepare. This is a business deal gone sideways and you should be working towards the best fair deal for you.

Part of that effort is your attitude. No need to stoop and become adversarial. Such, will likely not get you further towards your wanted goal / outcome / decisions.

Keep emotions out of this. Keep ego out of this. No need to turn it in to a war, when some cordial negotiating could/will achieve the desired results.

W and I seem to agree on most things (selling the house, dividing debts, 50/50 custody). No spousal or child support, and we each take our student loan debts.

Perhaps, W has reconsidered her custody position/offer. Or perhaps she only temporarily felt that way. Or perhaps she was surfing to see how not lose her half. And so on.

Information gained by snooping is usually coloured by one’s emotions. It is difficult to know the why based upon the few data points one uncovers. And snooping stirs up one’s own emotions which has the risk of prompting action or a change in direction based on the limited inference rather than follow the established facts and rational path one previously decided upon. If things change, if new information truly comes to light, then adjust.

I told her I'd consider giving her my vehicle in exchange for some household assets.

She asked if I would help pay her lawyer fees, as well as the filing fee. I just laughed.

Many times W has expressed concern and fear over her lawyer fees and associated costs of divorce. Her suggestions of helping her with such costs, is an area of negotiation.

Remove your ego from this equation. Consider what assets you are wishing for and those you are more willing to let go. A few thousand dollars invested in W’s legal bills might garner you much more in things you value.

That was a missed opportunity to ask what she was willing to give up for her to have no legal bill. Her answer might surprise you. Folks exiting relationships do place value upon some strange things. Some even so far as their freedom and no responsibilities over shared custody. I’m not suggesting W is there, my point is you are surmising her list of wants based upon the person you knew. It takes a bit of finesse to discover what she values/wants right now.

You’ve spoken to a lawyer. You know the default position in all this. You have opportunity to adjust that default, to give and take between the two of you. So far, W hasn’t sounded like she is looking for war. Don’t push her into one. That’s usually more a lose/lose outcome.

D

[Terapin]

Hello T

W left her ipad on the table and this morning i logged in. Did a quick search history and it seems she was looking at 'how to win full custody' websites last night. Guess it's time to prepare for war and drop the carefree 'as if' attitude.

You should definitely prepare. This is a business deal gone sideways and you should be working towards the best fair deal for you.

Part of that effort is your attitude. No need to stoop and become adversarial. Such, will likely not get you further towards your wanted goal / outcome / decisions.

Keep emotions out of this. Keep ego out of this. No need to turn it in to a war, when some cordial negotiating could/will achieve the desired results.

W and I seem to agree on most things (selling the house, dividing debts, 50/50 custody). No spousal or child support, and we each take our student loan debts.

Perhaps, W has reconsidered her custody position/offer. Or perhaps she only temporarily felt that way. Or perhaps she was surfing to see how not lose her half. And so on.

Information gained by snooping is usually coloured by one’s emotions. It is difficult to know the why based upon the few data points one uncovers. And snooping stirs up one’s own emotions which has the risk of prompting action or a change in direction based on the limited inference rather than follow the established facts and rational path one previously decided upon. If things change, if new information truly comes to light, then adjust.

I told her I'd consider giving her my vehicle in exchange for some household assets.

She asked if I would help pay her lawyer fees, as well as the filing fee. I just laughed.

Many times W has expressed concern and fear over her lawyer fees and associated costs of divorce. Her suggestions of helping her with such costs, is an area of negotiation.

Remove your ego from this equation. Consider what assets you are wishing for and those you are more willing to let go. A few thousand dollars invested in W’s legal bills might garner you much more in things you value.

That was a missed opportunity to ask what she was willing to give up for her to have no legal bill. Her answer might surprise you. Folks exiting relationships do place value upon some strange things. Some even so far as their freedom and no responsibilities over shared custody. I’m not suggesting W is there, my point is you are surmising her list of wants based upon the person you knew. It takes a bit of finesse to discover what she values/wants right now.

You’ve spoken to a lawyer. You know the default position in all this. You have opportunity to adjust that default, to give and take between the two of you. So far, W hasn’t sounded like she is looking for war. Don’t push her into one. That’s usually more a lose/lose outcome.

D

Thanks. That is really good advice. I feel like I"m just 'counter punching' right now. Other forums would say to go on the attack. I don't know who's right. But, at least to me, she's still cordial and amicable. That could all be a complete act, but I'm not sure what she would even be capable of fighting for, or if she'd want to. She can't even afford a retainer fee (not that I really can either), let alone to dig in and pay for a long custody battle.

But one thing is true, the woman I married and loved is gone. I can't think of her that way anymore. Not that I have to think of her as the enemy, but she's not my W, friend, buddy, etc anymore. I was already starting to feel detached. Each day that grows more and more. I don't think she's wayward, having an affair, etc though. I think she's just completely self centered and 'done' with the M. I hate even wasting any time an energy on this. From the beginning i should have just said 'good riddance''

[Ready2Change]

W left her ipad on the table and this morning i logged in. Did a quick search history and it seems she was looking at 'how to win full custody' websites last night. Great. Guess it's time to prepare for war and drop the carefree 'as if' attitude.

I was involved in a highly contested custody divorce. We ended up 50/50. More money was spent on legal fees than she received from me in child support. If she would have invested that money, she would have ended up with over 4X the amount she received in child support.

I was parenting more than her before bomb drop. Crazy how twisted they become.

Prepare for the worse and pray for the best. We never really know who we are dealing with. From this point forward, don't be alone with her. First one to call the cops typically stays in the house and the other is legally removed.

After I realized I could not trust anything she said, I switched to email as the primary mode of communication. Long paper trail of normal parenting discussions.

Keep your side of the street clean. Do not give her any ammunition. No drinking etc.

I took a parenting class on top of all the reading I was doing.

We had a child therapist working with the kids. He was a great asset.

For now STFU and be very observant of her words and her behavior.

Read my tagline. Best advise I received while going through this.

I wish you well.

[Terapin]

W left her ipad on the table and this morning i logged in. Did a quick search history and it seems she was looking at 'how to win full custody' websites last night. Great. Guess it's time to prepare for war and drop the carefree 'as if' attitude.

I was involved in a highly contested custody divorce. We ended up 50/50. More money was spent on legal fees than she received from me in child support. If she would have invested that money, she would have ended up with over 4X the amount she received in child support.

I was parenting more than her before bomb drop. Crazy how twisted they become.

Prepare for the worse and pray for the best. We never really know who we are dealing with. From this point forward, don't be alone with her. First one to call the cops typically stays in the house and the other is legally removed.

After I realized I could not trust anything she said, I switched to email as the primary mode of communication. Long paper trail of normal parenting discussions.

Keep your side of the street clean. Do not give her any ammunition. No drinking etc.

I took a parenting class on top of all the reading I was doing.

We had a child therapist working with the kids. He was a great asset.

For now STFU and be very observant of her words and her behavior.

Read my tagline. Best advise I received while going through this.

I wish you well.

Yeah it's hard to not be alone with her when we're cohabitating. I did buy a digital recorder that I plan to have on me at all times. I wouldn't think she'd stoop to that level, but you never know.

When you got 50/50, was/is it exactly 50/50? I've read stories that guys have got that decision, but it was still more like 80/20

I'm out of town for work yesterday and today. She sent a picture of our S last night and I just replied 'nice'. I called and talked to him last night, but no calls or texts to W, which is the first time ever that I didn't call her.

[SteveLW]

Steve, like I said, a part of me will never forgive her for this (actually twice in 5 years). When I look at this without any emotion, what I see is a selfish woman who rarely wants sex, doesn't cook, drinks every night, has a ton of debt, and has put me through the ringer for 20 straight years. Emotionally I want to save the M for the sake of the family, and I do love her. But rationally, Art Carney can have her too.

You need to work through this duplicity in counseling. You can't here saying you didn't want to see the marriage (or at least that was what you thought you "wanted"). But everytime you found evidence that she was planning on D you seemed disappointed. We respond to your disappointment and then you claim you really don't want to save it.

I get that you're confused but the advice you receive can only be about what you are currently posting. Heck you even said to her that since things had been better you thought things were going to work out!

If you're confused, and we're confused, I can guarantee you that so it's she!

Let's recap:

T comes here talking and BD #2.
T doesn't know if he wants to save them marriage.
T's wife starts being nice.
T seems to be happy about things being better.
T keeps getting disappointed when he finds evidence that his wife is still contemplating D.
T's W finally sits him down to reiterate that her plan is to D.
T comes here deflated.
T gets advice that things are really no different than before the sit down.
T insists that he still isn't sure if he wants to save the marriage.

Look at the first line. Look at the list line. Ask them lines in between are meaningless! You are in the same position now as you were when you first came back to the board.

We've seen several situations like this. Where the LBS thinks that a sit down talk is the WAS moving the D forward. Reverb though it's still all talk and inaction on them WAS's part.

My advice. Work through what you really want in IC. If D is what your want then go make that happen. If you want to try to save it, DB your butt off. But stop being a casual observer of your own life, be an active participant. Because my fear is that in a few more weeks we'll be having the same discussion and exchange.

Tldr; You're stuck in place.

[DnJ]

Good Morning T

I feel like I"m just 'counter punching' right now. Other forums would say to go on the attack. I don't know who's right.

Fighting begets fighting.

One should certainly defend themselves, and be prepared to go toe to toe if things get dragged there. However, leading with such tactics closes several doors to other more beneficial possibilities. One’s spouse may close such possibilities down on their own, even drag things into the adversarial realm. Remain calm, just respond, let them lead, let them own their divorce.

How you handle and deal with the business side of this does influence your emotional/healing path. What you do, the actions you take, how you conduct yourself, all become part of your immutable past. Stick to the high road; even when, especially when!, you feel otherwise. You have to live with your decisions for a long long time.

Do realize, it’s “how you conduct yourself”. You are not a doormat, and you are still focused upon the best outcome for self and son. It’s just how you go about it is all.

But one thing is true, the woman I married and loved is gone.

At the moment she is not present. That gal could be pushed down and hidden away from some wildly tormenting pressures of W’s life and past. Or she is entering a transitional stage of life. Or she (and you) could have drifted off course in your marriage. Or some other life changing / altering event. Or any mixture thereof. None of which is directly fixable by you. And none, which is not further alterable. Guaranteed, W is not done changing. We all constantly grow and change with our experiences.

This situation is fodder for change in you. These experiences, the path you traverse, will alter you. Become the best version of yourself. Find the path, move forward, along the journey that serves you. Digging deep and discovering what that best path is, is a lot of what the divorce busting philosophy entails.

D