Hello all. I'm new here but I'm very, very interested in giving DBing a shot and would love any extra tips on doing it successfully--I've been trying but backsliding here and there. Any encouragement would be great, too--i honestly feel like dying.
My husband (together 13 years, 3 kids 16-11 years old) announced a month ago that he is having an emotional affair with an old friend of ours, and wants a divorce. I have been absolutely devastated for the entirety of that month. Panic attacks, not able to eat or sleep, sobbing all the time. (I have had the wherewithal to try not to do so in front of him.) Overnight he went from my (admittedly cranky but awesome) husband to cold, and constantly on his phone or at this other woman's house.
My sister in law suggested reading DR, as her husband (my husband's brother) recently walked out on her and she had been reading it. I read it in about two days flat while also taking copious notes. It was the first hope I've felt in any of this. Browsing success stories here has been one of my few sources of hope since then.
When I have been able to go a few days applying a combination of the principles of 180 and LRT and GAL (side note, GAL feels very hollow right now, I'm sad all the time) he responds to me in markedly better ways, wants to tell me about his day, etc.
Then I'll, say, find a love letter from her to him about how sweet he is, when all I've wanted for years was his sweet side to reappear. Or he'll lie to me about where he's at and go to her house. And I mess up, out of all of that pain. I break the DB rules and bring her up. Or whatever. He told me tonight that the very next time I don't respect his space and privacy, he will move out (I just found that letter two days ago.)
We talked after the first week post bomb drop and I, desperate to keep him, suggested that since neither of us have a viable plan for moving out or any of the logistics of taking care of the kids, we just verbally agree to be separated but stay in the same house. We both love our home. I suggested that we work on becoming trusting friends and he is skeptical of that but somewhat in agreement. So that's our current status.
But it is so, so hard to see him all the time. Additionally, he still sleeps in the bed with me every night and is very much interested in being intimate up to three times a day. Our sex life has never been better but he tells me he's just using me until he's ready to move on. Having read the book, believing nothing that he says and only half of what he does, I don't respond to this and just focus on the fact that while he's saying such a vile thing, he's also kissing me. But it makes me feel insane.
He was talking to me constantly about how all of this is apparently my fault, for weeks. He even blames me for the verbal abuse he carried on throughout our marriage. But among all of these accusations I was able to glean some if not all of the ways that I did legitimately hurt him over the years. I was controlling and critical and often rejected his advances. I was bitter and angry and cold. I carried a huge load of anger through all of these years about the yelling, about a previous affair that we overcame, etc. As soon as he announced he was leaving me though, it was like that anger fell apart like the Berlin wall and all I have left is my love for him and my debilitating pain and anxiety over this situation. I feel like a brand new person without that anger and I can see how I acted clearly after 13 years.
I've got all my cheeseless tunnels listed and next to them, behaviors that are the 180 of each. I try to stick to them.
For the most part I succeed in being upbeat and positive in front of him.
When he tries to bait me into a blaming, finger pointing fight, I simply validate his feelings. (It feels so unfair to calmly apologize to him for my behaviors (which he simply doesn't like because they trigger his guilt) when he won't apologize for his atrocious and disgusting behavior and is actively moving forward with the OW. )
I love him, I love our family unit exactly as it is, and the horrific trauma surrounding my parent's divorce is enough for me to want to fight to the death for my marriage, even if just for my children's sake.
I've been going out with friends and being mysterious. Going to a support group for separated or divorced people. Going to see a lovely therapist to help me, rebuild me.
I'm trying to be sure to connect with my kids although they can tell I'm sad all the time but aren't sure why.
He and this OW actually had my oldest stepchild turned against me for most of this month but I wrote her a heartfelt letter and she has since come around. I'm actually applying some principles of DBing to restoring my robbed relationship with her, funny enough.
I want to know what more I can do. And I'm very confused by his behavior. My husband is one that can completely close someone off from his heart in an instant but still be nice to them, because of his childhood trauma. And I'm afraid it's too late, so so afraid. But tonight he ran me a bath. He's said he's excited for the bedroom later.
It's so painful to live this way. A lot of the time, I wonder if I should just cut him off sexually or something. However, sex is SO SO important to him, and I rejected him for so long, that I fear that would be a final nail in the coffin.
All of my friends say he's just having his cake and eating it too, and he is, but I think possibly, under that, he may still care and just feels completely swamped by guilt to the point where he's trying to run as far as he can away from what he sees as the source of these negative feelings, me. Maybe I'm in denial.
I get really lost in comparing myself to her, sometimes. She's beautiful and thinner than I, and of course she's such a great listener because she's a marriage and family therapist (yeah, how do you like that, a homewrecking MFT.) He's doing all the things he used to do with me, with her. Writing her beautiful letters, all of it.
However as part of GAL I've lost weight and started tanning (he always loved when I was tan.) I admit I've been so sad that I've been doing most of this for him though instead of myself, and he's always been very smart. He calls me out on trying to win him back and says there's nothing to salvage.
Any perspective would be welcome. Thanks all.
H 41 W 36 D16 S15--my stepchildren D11--biological M 6, T 13 Bomb/EA 1/19/23 Separated but living together
All of the people on this board have been through the heart wrenching pain and uncertainty of an unexpected relationship failure. You feel like your entire life is imploding. It feels like a dream, and grief and emotions control you.
In terms of DBing, you are doing all the right things. DBing isn’t easy - and it’s not fast. You will have slip ups all the time. It will take months of practice, re-reading the book over and over, and consulting with the forum for you to get better at it. Don’t be harsh on yourself if you slip up.
As for the rest of your message:
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He told me tonight that the very next time I don't respect his space and privacy, he will move out (I just found that letter two days ago.)
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Additionally, he still sleeps in the bed with me every night and is very much interested in being intimate up to three times a day. Our sex life has never been better but he tells me he's just using me until he's ready to move on.
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He was talking to me constantly about how all of this is apparently my fault, for weeks. He even blames me for the verbal abuse he carried on throughout our marriage.
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But tonight he ran me a bath. He's said he's excited for the bedroom later.
Based on your quotes above (if they’re accurate), then I’ll say this:
Your husband is gaslighting, manipulating and abusing you. This is domestic violence.
I won’t tell you what I really think you should do about it because I’ll be accused of giving non-DBing advice at the DB forums. However, what I will say is this:
You (and you alone) should immediately commence counselling. And not with a family therapist or relationship counsellor or someone who did an online course and got some BS qualification. I mean counselling with a qualified psychologist. Your doctor may be able to setup some sessions, or lots of EAPs have access to services like that.
You may be on moderation for a while, which just means your posts are to be reviewed by a moderator before getting displayed. Moderation is usually removed after new posters have created 5-10 posts.
Once your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread and continue on that thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your old full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I know he's blame shifting and gaslighting here but I thought, according to the book, that it's very common for the WAS to say a lot of terrible things that they don't necessarily mean?
Thanks for the input!
H 41 W 36 D16 S15--my stepchildren D11--biological M 6, T 13 Bomb/EA 1/19/23 Separated but living together
Sorry your in this situation, but glad you're here. Everyone who posts has been through something similar, knows exactly how you're feeling, and wants to help.
Would you give us some more background on the two of you and your relationship? How old are each of you? You mention 3 children but then also stepchild...are some of the kids yours biologically, or are they all stepchildren? I assume he was married previously then? Have both of you been previously married, and how did you meet? How long did you date before getting married?
Originally Posted by Rejoice
Any encouragement would be great, too--i honestly feel like dying.
We definitely know the feeling. It is one of the most difficult things you'll ever go through, but you WILL get through it.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
My husband (together 13 years, 3 kids 16-11 years old) announced a month ago that he is having an emotional affair with an old friend of ours, and wants a divorce.
Do you know how/when this start?
Originally Posted by Rejoice
I have been absolutely devastated for the entirety of that month. Panic attacks, not able to eat or sleep, sobbing all the time. (I have had the wherewithal to try not to do so in front of him.)
This is very common - you're not alone. Good you have the wherewithal not to do it in front of him. Have you seen a doctor about the panic attacks and non-sleep?
Originally Posted by Rejoice
Overnight he went from my (admittedly cranky but awesome) husband to cold, and constantly on his phone or at this other woman's house.
Was it overnight? I wonder as time goes on if you'll be able to look back and identify problems before then.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
My sister in law suggested reading DR, as her husband (my husband's brother) recently walked out on her and she had been reading it.
Your husband's wife walked out on her too? What is their parents' marriage history?
Originally Posted by Rejoice
I read it in about two days flat while also taking copious notes. It was the first hope I've felt in any of this. Browsing success stories here has been one of my few sources of hope since then.
That's great you're doing the reading. Keep it up!
Originally Posted by Rejoice
Then I'll, say, find a love letter from her to him about how sweet he is, when all I've wanted for years was his sweet side to reappear.
How did you find it? Did he leave the letter lying around, or are you snooping in his phone/email?
Originally Posted by Rejoice
Or he'll lie to me about where he's at and go to her house.
He is a lier and a cheater right now. DO NOT believe anything he says. He WILL blatantly lie to you.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
He told me tonight that the very next time I don't respect his space and privacy, he will move out (I just found that letter two days ago.)
He's trying to manipulate you. He's already in the middle of an affair. What could he do worse than that? Maybe you should smile and say "OK" and call his bluff.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
We talked after the first week post bomb drop and I, desperate to keep him, suggested that since neither of us have a viable plan for moving out or any of the logistics of taking care of the kids, we just verbally agree to be separated but stay in the same house.
Now you're trying to manipulate him. You're not going to talk and logic him back. It's an emotional thing for him.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
I suggested that we work on becoming trusting friends and he is skeptical of that but somewhat in agreement.
Would you be trusted friends with someone who is lying, cheating, and betraying you?
Originally Posted by Rejoice
But it is so, so hard to see him all the time.
IHS is incredibly difficult.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
Additionally, he still sleeps in the bed with me every night and is very much interested in being intimate up to three times a day.
3x a day? Wow. He's getting a thrill by having both of you - it's boosting his ego.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
Our sex life has never been better but he tells me he's just using me until he's ready to move on.
Ugh. Is that a turn on? It's openly admitting he's using you. He doesn't respect you right now. You need to respect yourself.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
Having read the book, believing nothing that he says and only half of what he does, I don't respond to this and just focus on the fact that while he's saying such a vile thing, he's also kissing me. But it makes me feel insane.
I think you're only believing the half of what you want. In this case it sounds like he's actually being honest with you...as repugnant as it is.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
He was talking to me constantly about how all of this is apparently my fault, for weeks. He even blames me for the verbal abuse he carried on throughout our marriage.
Sooooooooo common for the WS to blame the LBS to justify their affair.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
But among all of these accusations I was able to glean some if not all of the ways that I did legitimately hurt him over the years. I was controlling and critical and often rejected his advances. I was bitter and angry and cold.
OK, good to self-reflect and get better...but also he's clearly gaslighting you. Don't let him put the blame on you for his affairs.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
I carried a huge load of anger through all of these years about the yelling, about a previous affair that we overcame, etc.
I'm assuming it was his affair?
Originally Posted by Rejoice
As soon as he announced he was leaving me though, it was like that anger fell apart like the Berlin wall and all I have left is my love for him and my debilitating pain and anxiety over this situation.
When you lose something all of a sudden it creates instability and you get afraid of what you stand to lose. Over time you'll see it differently.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
I feel like a brand new person without that anger and I can see how I acted clearly after 13 years.
Easy for the LBS to feel like they're a changed person all of a sudden; less believable for the WAS/WS who's learned over years of behavior.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
I love him, I love our family unit exactly as it is, and
Right now you're scared of change. If you keep doing the work (IC, reading, posting here...etc) you WILL be ok either way.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
the horrific trauma surrounding my parent's divorce
How old were you?
Originally Posted by Rejoice
is enough for me to want to fight to the death for my marriage, even if just for my children's sake.
You can fight all you want, but ultimately must understand it's not within your control. If H wants out, it's his decision. What you need to work on is detachment and acceptance. Then if it goes the way you're hoping now, great, but either way you'll be at peace. Easier said than done? Of course. But that's your direction...
Originally Posted by Rejoice
I've been going out with friends and being mysterious. Going to a support group for separated or divorced people. Going to see a lovely therapist to help me, rebuild me.
Good!
Originally Posted by Rejoice
I'm actually applying some principles of DBing to restoring my robbed relationship with her, funny enough.
Eveyrone here says it's good for all relationships - not just your spouse.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
My husband is one that can completely close someone off from his heart in an instant but still be nice to them, because of his childhood trauma.
What trauma?
Originally Posted by Rejoice
And I'm afraid it's too late, so so afraid.
Drop your fears and embrace your future.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
But tonight he ran me a bath. He's said he's excited for the bedroom later.
Ugh. Sorry Rejoice but this guy is manipulating you and creeping me out.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
It's so painful to live this way. A lot of the time, I wonder if I should just cut him off sexually or something. However, sex is SO SO important to him, and I rejected him for so long, that I fear that would be a final nail in the coffin.
Right now he's getting a high off having both of you. His ego, going through his mind he's "the man". However, it's not because he's respecting you. Personally I would not feed it any longer. You should strongly consider pulling the rug out from under his feet instead of playing along.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
All of my friends say he's just having his cake and eating it too
They're right.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
and he is, but I think possibly, under that, he may still care and just feels completely swamped by guilt to the point where he's trying to run as far as he can away from what he sees as the source of these negative feelings, me. Maybe I'm in denial.
This feels like you're projecting your hopes onto him. He might have some guilt - though his actions don't seem to be showing it - but it seems more like he's a manipulating gaslighter who's happy to play both sides.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
However as part of GAL I've lost weight and started tanning (he always loved when I was tan.)
It's very common for people to lose 25, 30, 40 lbs. You'll see this in a ton of threads. Use this as an opportunity to eat healthier and exercise and make that progress permanent.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
He calls me out on trying to win him back and says there's nothing to salvage.
So don't make the changes for him - make them for you!
Originally Posted by Rejoice
Any perspective would be welcome. Thanks all.
Hang in there, Rejoice. We're pulling for you.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
I am 36, and he is 41. We met at work 14 years ago, he was never previously married but had a 3-year-old and a two-year-old. I have raised these children and consider them fully mine, and I believe that for the most part they feel the same. We have one biological child, 11. We dated and then lived together for 7 years before marriage.
His affair began about 2 months ago, it was a slow build of an intense emotional relationship. Love is being tossed around although they both deny having physical relations. He and I were trying to help her with an abusive ex-boyfriend, who happened to be his ex-best friend, when they apparently began to feel more for one another. I suspected something was wrong the whole time, and eventually just asked him for the truth. He admitted on his own to the emotional affair, lots of texts, several phone calls, and lots of visits to her house.
The admission in itself was somewhat of a miracle, as in the past he has denied things even when I had solid proof. Which seems to say to me, that he is feeling somewhat guilty about this.
I have seen my doctor about the panic attacks and sleeplessness, and have a prescription. The drugs affect me somewhat badly, so I try to use them few and far between.
By an overnight change I mean he went from his usual mix of tenderness and fun and crankiness, to Stone Cold within the span of a day or two from telling me the truth.
Yes, my brother-in-law, my husband's brother, walked out on his wife and daughter a few months ago. This is definitely a reflection of their upbringing, they had two cheating parents who had an incredibly traumatic divorce situation in which my MIL abandoned my husband at 8 years old to move to another state, leaving him with his alcoholic and gambling addicted father. She took with her the brother that recently walked out on his wife, and he suffered a lot of abuse from her subsequent partners. After that. It was a really bad situation. My husband was often alone, the electricity and water would get shut off due to his dad's gambling, and he would have to find meals where he could.
I looked in his truck, and found the letter. I was snooping, and I have apologized to him for that. I was quite concerned that since he and I are still sexually active, he may not be forthcoming about his activity with her and I may become subject to some disease. Not that that's an excuse for snooping.
Yes, he's previously had an affair, over a decade ago. I was able to mostly overcome it as he was repentant and it was clear it was just a physical thing--it hurts much worse that he's emotionally involved with someone now, as weird as that is. And it hurts far worse than that, that he's determined to split up our family and hurt our children over this.
I was 14 when my mother, sisters and I ran away from my abusive father. We all have good relationships now but my life was a wreck for at least a decade over it.
I think I covered his childhood trauma above.
Thank you for your insight.
H 41 W 36 D16 S15--my stepchildren D11--biological M 6, T 13 Bomb/EA 1/19/23 Separated but living together
Again welcome. And I’m sorry you have found yourself in this unwanted situation.
There are many kind and compassionate posters with much hard-earned wisdom. I see you’ve already met a couple of them.
Ask questions, vent, tell us about your day, post. We understand and are here to help.
A couple of housekeeping items for you. I’m glad you have read the Divorce Remedy book. This is your playbook, keep it to yourself. Do not share it with H. He will not appreciate its wisdom. For the moment, H is not on your team. He is on team H. Also ensure you clear your browser history and cache after being online here. Especially if using a family computer. You don’t want H or the kids reading along.
It is interesting to see the parallel of H and his brother. Family of origin issues usually cut deep and those wounds rip open later in life.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
…it hurts much worse that he's emotionally involved with someone now, as weird as that is.
Not weird at all. The loss of emotional connection hurts.
Affairs are staggeringly common in these situations. The affair is not about you. It’s about the cheating spouse and their inner turmoil.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
I get really lost in comparing myself to her, sometimes. She's beautiful and thinner than I, and of course she's such a great listener because she's a marriage and family therapist (yeah, how do you like that, a homewrecking MFT.) He's doing all the things he used to do with me, with her. Writing her beautiful letters, all of it.
The affair partner, in the case OW, is just a symptom. A band-aid for H. She means nothing. You are the wife. She covets what you have. Your power and position. And she can never have it, for her deceitful path does not lead there.
Affairs are built upon lies and deceit. That is a very poor foundation of which to build a relationship. This foundation is akin to sand, it is always crumbling and shifting away. As such, people involved in affairs expend incredible energies in maintaining this shifty sandy base.
There is no love from such deceit. H is just consumed in infatuation. He and likely OW are using each other to escape their pain. Their internal emotional pain. This inner torment of H is not of your doing. Regardless of what he says, nor how much he attempts to gaslight you. His path is about him!
I understand the feeling of needing to comparing oneself to the other person. Just look at her. Not appearance. I mean deeper. She is a marriage and family therapist involved in an affair which is actively working to break apart a family. Rejoice, do not ever place yourself less than her! Ever!
You are miles ahead of her. No need to ever belittle yourself. No need to compare to her. She is not in your league.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
I'm very, very interested in giving DBing a shot and would love any extra tips on doing it successfully
You didn’t break H, so you cannot fix him.
We all start out thinking and looking for some magic words or something that will snap our spouse out of it. Wake them up to what they are doing, and what they are losing. DB is about us LBS (left behind spouse) stepping back and letting our spouse hopefully find their pain(s) and heal from them.
You have the gift of time in all this. Use it well.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
When I have been able to go a few days applying a combination of the principles of 180 and LRT and GAL (side note, GAL feels very hollow right now, I'm sad all the time) he responds to me in markedly better ways, wants to tell me about his day, etc.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
I want to know what more I can do.
Breathe.
Focus on you.
You’ve not mentioned focusing on you. You’re currently “doing” instead of “being”. Perfectly normal and understandable as you are just starting out. DB shifts your focus off of H and onto your life.
Give H time and space. Focus on you and the kids.
Yes, getting a life will feel rather hollow for a little while. Keep at it. Rekindle old hobbies, and try new ones. Go for walks, join a gym, learn a different language, go horseback riding, whatever. I’m sure you have lots of ideas and interests. Try them out and see what takes hold.
Let go H. The more firmly you hold on, the more he will struggle to be free.
Originally Posted by Rejoice
We talked after the first week post bomb drop and I, desperate to keep him, suggested that since neither of us have a viable plan for moving out or any of the logistics of taking care of the kids, we just verbally agree to be separated but stay in the same house. We both love our home. I suggested that we work on becoming trusting friends and he is skeptical of that but somewhat in agreement. So that's our current status.
In house separation is a difficult path.
I’d stop the cake eating.
Becoming trusted friends, first requires that you are friends. H is not currently treating you like a friend. Or a loving wife/partner. Rejoice, just like the talk of OW, do not belittle yourself. You are worth better treatment. A mantra for you: We are not friends, my friends don’t treat me that way.
You need not tell him that. You show him.
Also:
Originally Posted by Rejoice
I was quite concerned that since he and I are still sexually active, he may not be forthcoming about his activity with her and I may become subject to some disease.
Absolutely! Most valid! Do not let yourself get some STD.
You are the most important person in this situation. Everything here is for you. Healing and finding you. And it gives you the best chance at saving your marriage.
I look forward to talking with you again.
Have a great day.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I looked in his truck, and found the letter. I was snooping, and I have apologized to him for that. I was quite concerned that since he and I are still sexually active, he may not be forthcoming about his activity with her and I may become subject to some disease. Not that that's an excuse for snooping.
You apologized for what? Having a suspicion and finding exactly what you were looking for? PLEASE (and anyone else reading this) never ever apologize for finding proof of your suspicions! I hate when a cheater tries to turn the blame around on to a snooping spouse! That is just flat out wrong. It is never ever worse to snoop than it is to be cheating and the cause of the snooping!
Originally Posted by Rejoice
Yes, he's previously had an affair, over a decade ago. I was able to mostly overcome it as he was repentant and it was clear it was just a physical thing--it hurts much worse that he's emotionally involved with someone now, as weird as that is. And it hurts far worse than that, that he's determined to split up our family and hurt our children over this.
Rejoice, there is no way to put this. And so I am going to be blunt. There are two kinds of cheaters in my mind. One is an unhappy spouse that falls into another thing. (Note this does not make CHEATING RIGHT!) And then there are serial cheaters. Guess what the description of a serial cheater is? Someone that does it more than once. I am sorry to say that you may simply have a serial cheater here.
And likely his "it was only physical" last time was because the OW in that case made it clear that the affair would never go further than affair status. I am not a typical male, but I could never sleep with someone that I didn't have an emotional connection with. Even when I was single I never did the one night stand thing. Maybe he can, but likely if the affair was more than a couple of times there were emotions involved.
Finally, this comment struck me: "And it hurts far worse than that, that he's determined to split up our family and hurt our children over this." This is his second go around. The real question is why aren't you entertaining thoughts of splitting up the family over this? Unless he were to come back contrite, repentant and willing to agree to any and all of your terms, this is really the path you should be contemplating.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
