Living With WAW 4

[DW17]

I borrowed this from Rock’s thread, but it applies to my thoughts today as well after a rough Valentine’s Day.

Or, do you have some decisions to renew?

You came here and made decisions to save your marriage. To believe in the sanctity of marriage. To take divorce busting steps. To become the best verison of yourself. And so on.

This is a Divorce Busting forum, and divorce busting efforts towards saving/renewing your marriage/relationship, not promoting steps to end it. You filing will guarantee you get divorced.

Utimatiums and deadlines are utilized in the “after the last-resort technique”. When everything else has been utilized and one’s spouse will not turn around. It is the the very last ditch effort, the trying everything you could. In my opinion, you and your situation are not there.

Remember this is a marathon, not a sprint.

You have the gift of time, use it wisely.

I came to this site, as did most, with the intention of saving my marriage. In the process I have rediscovered happiness within myself, reconnected with friends and family, improved several physical and mental aspects of myself, became a much better father and employee. Almost all of this was a result of the help I’ve received here.

I currently feel like I don’t want anything to do with the woman who used to be my sidekick through life. I know that feelings change. Mine have changed several times. But having the disrespect rubbed in my face in my own home by W and her friends, and then having them pretend like nothing is going on is something I don’t feel like I should be dealing with any longer.

I am expecting W to file D papers next week, per her schedule. She has stalled on this since first saying she wanted a D in this summer. I expect her to continue to stall. My current struggle is do I wait to see if my feelings change, even though they are pushing further apart by the day, or do I just pull the plug? When do I know it’s the right time to stop fighting for my marriage? I told my kids I’d give it a year. It’s been 8 months. Last night I told them one way or another, someone is getting served by the end of the month. Yes, this was said out of anger and is not set in stone, but that’s how I feel at the moment.

So some context from yesterday:

Leading in to Valentine’s Day, I had a feeling that this would be a rough day for me. I did well with the other holidays/birthdays/anniversaries, but I was worried about this one. PMA was not working for me. I got home from work and started to run on the treadmill. While I was running, W said she had to go pick up D7 (our previous foster daughter who no longer lives with us) because D7 was sad and wanted to see us. D18 was leaving to hang out with her bf and quickly told me that she wanted to talk to me about a conversation she just had with W about OM and that he got her flowers and a gift. They both left, I finished my run and went to see what D18 was talking about.

I saw the flowers/gift and a few cards. One of the cards was from a close friend of W and I, who calls herself my children’s aunt, who was just at our house a few days ago. In it, she basically is trying to be a supportive friend for W saying stuff like “I’ll always be there for you, you’ll get through this”, etc, but she also referred to W’s new boyfriend by saying she was happy for her and her new temporary (bold/underlined) boyfriend. I’ve known that W has been cheating on me, but for some reason seeing it from a “friend” who knows about it, didn’t say anything to me about it, calls herself my children’s aunt, and just a few days ago responded to me thanking her by saying “that’s what friends are for” hit me different. Obviously I was upset about the flowers and gift, but this hurt equally as bad. I was ready to throw away W’s gift and leave all of her belongings outside. I called my sister to talk me out of doing/saying anything stupid that could hurt me later and she suggested I go to her house to watch a movie. As soon as W got home from getting D7, I said I’d be back later. She asked where I was going and when I’d be back because she had dinner plans (supposedly with a girl friend. Probably a lie, I don’t care though). I said I’ll be back later and left.

W got the kids to bed eventually after calling/texting me for 30 minutes straight (I didn’t respond) and left for her dinner plans. I was not in a state to be speaking to her. The kids were left with S19. I got home late, the same time as D18. D18 told me that she asked W who got her the gifts and W wouldn’t answer. She pried more, which prompted a conversation where W admitted that OM got her the gift/flowers. She told D18 that she no longer has an emotional connection with me and said she really likes this guy. Asked if D18 wanted to meet him. Said that OM really knows her because the flowers he got are black (W dresses in mostly black now. She’s never done this in her 38 prior years on this planet) She was basically trying to get acceptance of her behavior from D18. D18 stayed calm, but did not give her that comfort and said it was wrong of her to do that while married to her dad. I also found out that the indoor soccer team I just signed D5 and D7 up for is the same age group as OM’s daughter. So they will play against each other at some point in the next month. I asked D18 if she was okay and she still keeps saying yes, but I know there are emotions she’s keeping in.

I haven’t spoken to W other than a text response that I’m picking up D5 from school today. She asked me to call and I did not. W’s texts are complaints about lack of communication about the kids. I know this is BS, and I don’t care as W never mentioned leaving last night to me either. Like I was told a few weeks ago, none of this information is new. I’ve known she is cheating. I’ve known she is a liar. I would expect her stupid bf to get her a gift on Valentine’s Day. I understand that. It still hurts today though. I don’t want to make an emotional decision, but I cannot see myself with this woman ever again. (…feelings are fleeting…) The hurt probably means I still care. But I don’t want her in my house, I don’t want her friends in my house, I don’t want to talk to her and I want to throw her stupid gift in the fireplace. I will never understand her showing this much disrespect for the 22 years we’ve spent together. Just file for the d@mn D first…then you’re free to do whatever you want. I guess that’s MLC.

I think I’m going to read DR again the next few days. I’m going to fill the next 2 days with things away from my house, which should be easy. I’m going to enjoy the hell out of my trip. And when I get back, I’m going to make a decision or renew one.

[LH19]

DW17 that was a tough read and I am sorry.

I will never understand her showing this much disrespect for the 22 years we’ve spent together.

It's because you allow her to do it. It's not fog, MLC or whatever you want to label it. That's the down side of detach, GAL, 180 you eat a lot of $hit sandwiches.

[BL42]

DW17,

Sorry man, that was tough to read - you've got me all riled up. The thing is there's "knowing" about the affair in the abstract, which you've dealt with emotionally, and then there's seeing tangible evidence of it thrown in your face in your own house.

Not sure the official "DB" answer is - maybe be detached enough not to care/act anyway - but I personally don't think you'd be wrong to take the flowers and cards and throw them in the trash or fireplace. At least you'd be standing up for yourself, acting out of strength, and modeling for your kids not to put up with that betrayal and disrespect.

If there's any consolation for you it's that you'll never need to explain who was the "bad actor" to your kids - W is showing D18 exactly what going on. Now, that's probably not great for D18's development, but she knows exactly who the bad actor is.

Hang in there DW. You have every right to be angry, but feelings are fleeting and you will get through this.

[MikeP]

DW, I want to drive to your house right now and throw that stuff in the fireplace for you 🤬! That was a hard read and I’m sorry you are going through this.

[bttrfly]

DW, first, {{{{{hugs}}}}}

Secondly, I suggest taking D18 for a long car ride or to get something to eat, just the two of you and have a very direct conversation. In that conversation, tell her that you respect her perhaps wanting to keep some feelings or info private, but make it abundantly clear to her that she does not need to protect you from anything, that you will always be there for her, and that she can always come to you for anything. Sadly yes, that needs to be stated clearly.

As angry as you are, do not say anything that could be construed as parental alienation. Also make it clear that your w is still your daughter's mother, regardless of her current behavior.

Sadly, DW, now is probably the time to remind yourself that your relationship with your kids is yours and w's relationship with the kids is between them. Don't allow your justifiable anger to intrude on those relationships.

The beauty of DBing is you can take all the time YOU need to make a decision. And, this "friend" has shown you exactly who she is as a person. You're going to be learning a lot about the people in your life as the months unfold.

Continue to focus on keeping your side of the street clean, and take the time away to really think about what you want and how you want to live your life so you'll be ready to implement something that truly works for you and your kids when the time comes.

[DW17]

Thanks for the support.

It's because you allow her to do it. It's not fog, MLC or whatever you want to label it.

I was thinking about this recently when reading a comment on another post. When we first went through this 14 years ago, I got upset, called her out on her BS, left the house for a week or two, gave her some ultimatums....basically didn't allow her to treat me badly, but definitely not DB principles. We never worked through anything and we were back together in a few weeks. This time was definitely much different and I highly doubt that that strategy would have worked again, but it does cause some what ifs. The first time around, I don’t remember feeling guilty for anything. I blamed her 100% and failed to see my part in it. This time I took blame for everything initially, which maybe led to things dragging on like they have. Ultimately, we both made choices and I must accept the path I’ve chosen.

As for the sandwiches, I’ve gotten my fill of those. Still don’t like them.

The thing is there's "knowing" about the affair in the abstract, which you've dealt with emotionally, and then there's seeing tangible evidence of it thrown in your face in your own house.

I agree. It’s easier to mentally detach from things when it’s “out of sight, out of mind”, even when you know it’s happening. That’s why we don’t ride together or share a bed – I needed the constant texting out of sight.

D18 and S19 definitely have no confusion about the bad actor. I hope the knowledge they gain through this outweighs any negative side effects. I just hope I’m modeling the correct behavior. I’ve been honest with them through the whole process. I’ve talked to them about being independent, expecting mutual respect in a relationship and not letting someone walk on them. I’ve talked about the reasons for my actions, or lack thereof, and have also expressed the reasons why I’ve been fighting to save this. Neither of them are reliant on W for anything, other than the emotional support you expect of a parent, which they currently are not even receiving from her. They understand they can navigate their relationship with W in any way they choose.

[BL42]

DW17,

D18 and S19 definitely have no confusion about the bad actor. I hope the knowledge they gain through this outweighs any negative side effects. I just hope I’m modeling the correct behavior. I’ve been honest with them through the whole process. I’ve talked to them about being independent, expecting mutual respect in a relationship and not letting someone walk on them. I’ve talked about the reasons for my actions, or lack thereof, and have also expressed the reasons why I’ve been fighting to save this. Neither of them are reliant on W for anything, other than the emotional support you expect of a parent, which they currently are not even receiving from her. They understand they can navigate their relationship with W in any way they choose.

You almost have two completely different paths in terms of the kids.

S19 & D18 are going to be done with high school and potentially moved out to college before any potential D happens. There is no custody and perhaps no child support (depending on the state) considerations for them. They can choose where they want to live. If they come back to college, they might default back to the house they know...etc.

Whereas if the D happens D5 is going to go through life back and forth between your place and as she gets older won't remember nearly as much about the process leading up to the D as S19 and D18 will.

[DnJ]

Hello DW

Sorry man. Yesterday was certainly and understandably a rough one for you. I did find the first time through the special days was the most difficult.

I too had a family friend, an aunt to the children, who sided with XW. Another betrayal and/or feelings thereof to work through and accept.

I don’t want to make an emotional decision

Good.

(…feelings are fleeting…)

Yes they are.

I came to this site, as did most, with the intention of saving my marriage. In the process I have rediscovered happiness within myself, reconnected with friends and family, improved several physical and mental aspects of myself, became a much better father and employee.

Excellent.

I currently feel like I don’t want anything to do with the woman who used to be my sidekick through life. I know that feelings change.

Perfectly normal to feel such. And rather temporary for the woman you promised your life to, and the mother of your children - unless such feelings are reinforced.

My current struggle is do I wait to see if my feelings change, even though they are pushing further apart by the day, or do I just pull the plug?

You know your feeling will change. You even said so. It’s not “if”, it’s just “when”.

Do not pull the plug based on feelings.

When do I know it’s the right time to stop fighting for my marriage?

When? Know? Fighting?

Fighting begets fighting. Live well. Be that happy man connected with friends and family. Be the better person, father, and employee. The focus on you stuff. The stuff you can control.

Knowing. The cold emotionlessness of logic and reason. If you needed financial protection or security, that would be a known reason to file for divorce; which is still not stopping efforts towards busting/reconciliation.

When. Dig deep. What are your beliefs and values and convictions? Standing really starts when one becomes strong and healed enough to stand down; until then it’s one’s default position. Stand for your beliefs.

I think I’m going to read DR again the next few days.

Nice. I usually find or renew things on subsequent readings.

I’m going to make a decision or renew one.

Look to your deep convictions and motivations. The core of who you are. Life’s peace and contentment comes from living such headings.

D

[Mach1]

Tough day for sure DW....

Been there and done that one too....

Maybe it's me, yet somewhere in the middle there is room for this...

What we've been telling you for the past few months, is that your path forward is for you and you alone.

You can't lead from behind (your kiddos), and you certainly can't drive a square peg in a round hole...

Right now, you feel in limbo, and the reason that you feel that way is YOUR choice.

I certainly do not condone what she is doing, although I also don't condone running out and filing for Divorce either.

And there is the balance my friend.....

I think the expectation of the day had you in a tailspin before you even started your day. Expectations being the killer of so many things in our life. I think that you were expecting things to go sideways, and maybe even worked toward that a bit.

Blaming her actions for your downfall, allows you to be a victim of her behavior rather than a leader of your spirit through turbulent times......

Which would you prefer to be ???


Either way, the thing that you feared the most yesterday came to fruition for you.

One phrase that I have found to be true, is that it isn't what happens to you in your life that matters, it's how you handle it that make the difference.

You are pretty new to this stuff, and you will fall down and get back up. Sometimes that happens in the matter of a few minutes. And that's okay. You can't have too many highs or too many lows. Life will ebb and flow around you, and you can either choose to get on the ride or you don't. Your choice.

Find the Balance....

I also do not believe that DBing is simply a platform to teach you how to be Divorced, or certainly not how to push forward for it. At least it historically hasn't been that. I feel that DBing is about you finding your best self, and taking stock of yourself, and figuring out what you want your life to look like, free from the burden of a relationship. Becoming your best self regardless the outcome of your situation.

With DBing, IF you can accomplish those things, the best chance that you have to restore your marriage, is to find that from within, and live that everyday for you. Then you can live authentically with yourself. Also with DB, you know without a shadow of a doubt that you did everything in your power to save your marriage, and regardless the outcome, you will sleep well knowing that.

I have seen a lot of marriages fail , however I have seen a lot them work out too. Mostly what happens is, that once a marriage hits this site, it's too late to save. Most can only hope for something anew down the road.

The skills learned here should make you a better person for your next relationship, and that next one could very well be with your current spouse. anything down the road will have to be new though.

And rarely, if ever, will a WAS return to the same situation that they are walking away from now...Things will have to be different if that were to ever happen.



DW, like I said earlier, nothing that happened yesterday was new information to you. You know that she has been working toward this. You knew the strong potential for another guy, you know the level of disconnect that she has for the marriage.

And please don't feel like I am beating you down.....because you have my sincere empathy about this.

I want you to see that your thoughts are emotional right now. And I want you to see that you don't have to be either still married or freshly divorced to be the man you you want and need to be....

That your marital status doesn't define who you are as a person, a man, a Father, Friend, Son, whatever you want to insert there....

You can be anything that you want to be, and do not have to check any marital boxes for that to happen...

And there aren't any bells that you need to ring, because once you ring them, you can't un-ring them.

For now ???

F-her man....

Live your life for you and the kids....

If she wants to file ???

F-her...let her do the legwork...

IF she wants to intentionally hurt you ???

F-her man....that says more about her character than yours....

YOU are the rock right now...for yourself and the kids...

Don't get down and play on her level, because you will regret it if you do..


Most WAS want to totally destroy the LBS on the way out the door. I know my Ex did....

I always thought this though....

Divorce is public record...

What would I want my kids to read about if they were to ever search for that ??

What would they know about me if I drug her through the mud the same as she was doing to me ??

Your marriage should never define who you are....

And maybe that's the mistake that most of us have made that landed us here. That we allowed that to happen....



One last thing though...

When it come to the kids....

You need to F-ing communicate with her....regardless how pi$$ed you are at her, or how much of an a$$hat she is being....

YOU COMMUNICATE ABOUT THE KIDS.....REGARDLESS

They don't deserve any what's happening.

She will fail though, not always, yet she will fail until she moves further down the road. You won't always know when it's gonna happen....

However, you not communicating with her sets the pattern of NON-communication. And it will be too late before you know that.....


Hang in there DW....

This too shall pass.....

For now....Just be

[BL42]

For now ???

F-her man....

Live your life for you and the kids....

Indeed!

IF she wants to intentionally hurt you ???

F-her man....that says more about her character than yours....

Remember DW...how someone treats others is a direct reflection of how they feel about themselves.

I realize it's majorly impacting your life and that [censored], but this is about her...not you.