Going dark feels like pressure

[Bat]

If I am reading this correctly, rather than having an A, it sounds like you opened up your marriage?


I am think some very important information here is what boundaries were set when the both of you with the help of a marriage counselor agreed to him having sex with this woman? Were the consequences discussed of what might happen if this was done? What would happen and how would you both feel if he simply wasn’t just “getting it out of his system”?


I think these might be important details.

Yes you are right about this. That was the situation in oct and no the mc didn’t agree but it was our agreement.
When it was done he would break it off and accept the help of MC to get over this. No matter how hard, he would do it. But he didn’t.

[Bat]

I’m glad you’ve landed here. There’s lots of wonderful people who will help shape and guide you on your journey.

Your husband is many, many years from coming back to you - if he does at all.

Why do you think this? Because he still says he thinks he’s coming back.

I’ve never, EVER read a story where a marriage was opened up and it worked out for the best. It always come from a place of someone wanting to cheat, but wanting permission so they don’t have to feel bad about it. Your marriage counsellor is an idiot.

I think you’re in for a really rough ride. Best of luck.

Work through the welcome thread that DNJ posted… and then the main things you need to prioritise are IC, exercise, sleep and managing your emotion.

[Ready2Change]

Look, most new posters always have some reason that they need to talk. Don't justify talking to him.

For example:

We also have a dog so need to communicate about that.

Who takes care of the dog more? You or Him? If it is him, it is his dog. If it is you, then it is your dog. Negotiate who will be completely responsible for this dog.

He is my only friend to be honest

We are now your online friends if you want. One of the first things I strongly suggest is getting "In Real Life" IRL friends. Most of us have done that during this process. My first friend group after the divorce I met by going to starbucks daily. I got to know the staff and the regulars. If you want more help in this area asks us for tips.

[Ready2Change]

I agreed because I understood he needed the experience.

There is a difference between needs and desires.

[DnJ]

Hello B

I’m cleaning up the quoting in your posts.

Here is some helpful command structure explanation for quoting:

There are a few ways to include a quote.

Below an unlocked post there are four buttons. Like, edit, reply, and quote. Pressing quote populates the quick reply dialog box (the place where one types their responses/posts) with that entire post - bookended by the quote command.

Another, and more precise method is to copy and paste what you want to quote into the command structure.

By the way, you can see the QUOTE command in action. Just press the quote button on this post to examine its syntax from the above quote.

Basically:

[ quote=User Name]Displayed Text[/quote]

Note: I left a space between “[“ and “quote” otherwise it would be seen as the command and it will display it as a quote, and won’t display the syntax structure. You need to remove that space when actually using the command.

User Name - The name of the quoted poster. The quote box will display the title - “Originally Posted by <User Name>”.

The user name is optional to the command. Not including one will just display a title of - “Quote”.

Displayed Text - The text that will be displayed within the quote box.


The Quote button below posts is useful for showing the post with all its embedded commands expanded. Then copy - commands included if you are after such - and quote or utilize as needed. Especially useful if nesting quotes or for embedded links.

I personally prefer the more precise method to type the quote command syntax and paste in the quoted text.

Have a look (press quote button to see) at the altered posts to see all the quote and /quote statements.

I hope this makes sense.

D

[BL42]

Bat,

Give plenty of time and space. And definitely no R talks.

Going dark is a mechanism for you to heal and regain your balance. It is not a strategy for getting H through his turmoil, or influencing him, or some such. Going dark is not punishment either.

Thank you for this. It does feel a bit like a strategy or punishment.

The space is just as much for you as it is for him if not more. You need to detach from him for your own mental well-being. It has the side effect of making him wonder why you're not pursuing and perhaps if he made a mistake. It won't happen overnight and will probably take some time, but go dark for you.

My ex abused me physically and emotionally.

That's awful. How did you address the effects of this abuse? Did you seek IC?

Long story short we agreed with help from MC that he would sleep with her.

It sounds like you and MC endorsed him sleeping with OW to "get it out of his system? Hindsight is always 20/20, but this was a very bad decision. Not that you could stop him from doing it anyway, but it sounds very wrong for you and MC to give him your blessing.

Why was this wrong? Otherwise as you said it would stick in his system this was exactly what he said.

Or instead of getting it out of his system he'd want it more and not want to give it up - endorsing your spouse to have sex with another person is rarely a solution to a troubled marriage.

In oct they met and did have sex. I supported him because even during those 5 days he said this is it after this I’ll end it and make everything up to you.

Again, bad decision. Do not ever let yourself be treated like that and disrespected. Next time you walk away with your head held high and never look back. Let me come back begging if he wants.

I choose to allow it, he was open about doing it anyway so no disrespect in my opinion.

Agree to disagree then. But I'd ask...how has this approach been working for you?

Last day of her visit he came home and told me I think we are done I’m in love with her. He moved to other bedroom for 3 nights. Then he came back to me we had sex every day since then but he also booked a ticket to see her in jan, and started calling her from his car every day for at least an hour. Those hours were heartbreaking for me, more than the PA.

Again, you're letting him "eat cake". Don't be a doormat. If he wants to meet up w/OW he doesn't get you.

He did respect that I didn’t allow him talking to her in the house so he went out to do it in his car. This was his way of showing respect. I did tell him the phonecalls are over when you come back.

Your H is in another country with OW and says he doesn't want to give her up. How is that showing respect?

Pff yes I know but it’s hard. He is my only friend to be honest and not speaking to him would mean not speaking to anybody. We also have a dog so need to communicate about that.

What do you mean not speaking to anybody? Do you have a support network (friends, family...etc)?

I know this is a stupid question but do you think the A will last months or even years?

Almost certainly months. Very possibly years. And, even if it ends with OW there's no gaurantee he comes back...it could be OW2 or OW3.

Bat I came back from a family vacation with my W 4yo son and 1yo daughter on which I thought we had a pretty good time. A week or two later my W said she thinks we need to separate and within 24 hrs I found out about OM. I google every statistic about affairs I could find, seeing they usually last 3 months or 6 months or up to 3 years. So I assumed I'd be the 3 months and by Summer we'd be back on track. Because it was crazy to me to even think about separating/divorcing with two young kids, a nice house, good careers, and pretty decent situation overall (not much fighting, no abuse...etc, etc.). For months I took care of S4 and D1 while W "worked late" and "went in early". Eventually the affair did end when their employeer and OM's W found out. But guess what? W started dating OM2, moved out, filed for D, and moved OM2 in.

Point is...don't rely on a hopeful timeline. Don't rely on your H suddenly "coming around" and wanting to R. The ONLY thing you can control is you. Focus all of your energy on yourself. Go to IC. Go to the gym. Exercise regularly. Take up new hobbies. Meet new people. Those are the things that are going to make you feel better about yourself and coincidentally more attractive to your H and other people.

[marching]

He is my only friend to be honest and not speaking to him would mean not speaking to anybody.

This, combined with the other details you gave of how he's justifying his affair (talk of "needs" and dangling the prospect of coming back to you), worries me, Bat. This will sound harsh, but I worry that your relationship wasn't on sound footing to begin because you didn't have your own life independent of him, making you very isolated and vulnerable to manipulation.

Now that you have time to yourself, I really encourage you to start building your own circle of friends and finding out who you are outside of a relationship.

I know this is a stupid question but do you think the A will last months or even years?

I've read in several places that most affairs die within 2 years, the majority ending within 6-9 months. A very small percentage of affairs turn into marriages, and most of those marriages fail. I understand why you ask this question—you want to have a timeline for when H might return. I understand seeking hope from this information. But really try to live your own life, keep moving forward instead of waiting around for him.

[Bat]

When you feel emotionally ok to do this, I think it'd be really useful to reflect on the questions that BL42 posted re: comparison of your previous marriage to your current one.

Well, one of the things he finds really hard is when I say things like “I heard this before in my past”. He feels like someone else broke me and he now he is responsible for fixing everything. The first years of our relationship he didn’t want me to talk about it at all. Be the last few years he started to realise he was 20 years old when we met and to young to deal with it, and that I should talk about it.

I do sometimes think about my own behaviour in both relationships. I see a lot of fixing when I think about it. But that relationship was nothing compared to this one. Yes i was married. And with H I’m not officially married but this feels like my marriage the former one was a relationship i got pulled in. I was still very attached to my mum back then, and did more with her than with him. He had a very old fashioned way of thinking I should do everything in the house and not want to work or learn anything. With H I really want him, love him and he still is my best friend. MLC made him run away from me.

Also this x didn’t want to share anything with me, he preferred his friends, and he was not attracted to me, he liked another bodytype. This sounds similar to H wanting a.. woman, but it’s not because I know H is really attracted to me, he tells and shows me this. That’s why I don’t really buy the “a need an .. woman”. OW certainly does not have the body type he likes, she’s skinny and he doesn’t like that he only likes the eyes.

And it had to be a woman from a specific part of the world, that was his dream.

This is so gross. Wtf. I REALLY do not like this. Has he always had this fantasy or is this a new thing? I'm sorry, but I really question the character of this guy. Sounds like he has some serious issues with objectifying and using women that go beyond his current identity crisis.

You certainly have a point here. Not in character because this is just a small part of who he is, and he knows it’s wrong. I know it’s MLC because I saw a side of him that really is not who he is. The anger. It even scares him sometimes. And for the only time in 14 years not putting me and my interests at one.

Objectification is a problem with roots in porn. He told me that before he met me (he was 19-20 when we met), he thought that every woman wants to have sex all the time, and every situation e.g work or supermarket or whatever can lead to sex in a split second. In my previous job I traveled a lot, and he would have images in his head of me stepping in an elevator, looking in someone eyes and bammm from that to sex in a few seconds. All of this because of what he saw in porn. I’m not a psychologist but I think his relationship before me and the relationship of his parents had a lot to do with it. His former gf didn’t want to sleep with him she wasn’t ready (14-17 years old during that relationship). He felt rejected by that. We spoke about this a lot and he understands now she was so young. But the cruel part is that she didn’t want to sleep with HIM. She cheated on him, even with his own brother (by sending naked pictures of herself). And there were rumours of her sleeping with other guys.

When he met OW online on a international friendship site, he became this 15 year old boy again. Wondering if this object of his fantasy could be interested in him. One image said; porn, she wants it from whoever offers it to her, other image said; she only wants it from someone with a better body than mine. It was an EA but a very childish one, wondering about what a heart or a kiss could mean. Being jealous about likes on social media, only talking about fun things. She’s 39 but never had a serious relationship so that clicked with this reliving of being 15 years old.
H acknowledges this. To be honest we spoke a lot about why, how, if from june-oct. After that he didn’t want to talk about it anymore. Then the “this is just how i am” started, comparing it to being gay. I’m not completely sure but I think this is to justify that it’s really not that deep, but just something that makes him feel good at this moment and he can’t let go.

Could this going back to being 15, be a sign of MLC? Because I read puberty and MLC are similar and some H who have children that age start to copy behaviour. God that must be awful haha having an adolescent and a MLC H in the house.

Another reason why he can be stuck in this age is that he had cancer age 13-14. It was short but still gave him the realisation of mortality. Since then he always had the idea that his body was inferior than others. That he should be slimmer, fitter etc. I’ve heard him saying he was in the body of a 80 year old and that he probably would die young, 50-60. That’s also why I think it’s MLC although he is a bit young. If he thinks he will not be older than 60, then yes he is halfway.

More about objectification, his father would watch porn not when he was around but would record it or leave tracks at the family computer. And his father would speak about his mother as being dum and stupid, and in fights giving her silent treatment for weeks. She on the other hand would not respect boundaries and continue seeing people he had problems with. I have thought about this a lot, and she should be free to see whoever she wants, but the way she did it was very disrespectful. Not talking about it just doing it even if it hurts him. So they didn’t treat each other with a lot of respect but are still “together”.

Then there is the big question how does he see me? I think mainly as his best friend. But also his home. And the one that turns him on the most of all and who he can both have sex with and make love to. Sexual there have been years when this was a problem. I knew he had this objectification way of thinking, he would call women who looked sexy sluts. So I struggled with sexuality because I didn’t want to be like that, someone who can’t be trusted because she wants sex all the time. This was a few years into our R. Then it became slow also because of energy levels and medical problems. After medical problems were solved for me it got better, he still thought i just didn’t like him. After the BD this totally changed and we really found each other back in this area.
A few weeks back we sat in the bathtub together and we had a good R talk. I asked what do you feel for her? He said she just makes me calm, when I look in het eyes everything is ok. I then asked what do you feel for me? He said, love, security, familiarity, feeling at ease and feeling I can really be myself, and then he broke down in tears saying; passion.

So how can I believe he is really gone? Falling in love with her and letting me go because he needs to move on? That’s what most people would say but I came to this board because I think here are people who understand I don’t want to let go. I can do my own thing for a while yes, even if it takes years.

[DnJ]

Hello B

Competing with a fantasy is near impossible as long as the fantasy exists. A fantasy exists in the mind, free of the confines and pressures of real life. H’s fantasy will get more and more disrupted and fall apart as more and more of life injects into it. This cannot be by your hand. Any interference by you will be met with rebellion and invariably strengthen their bond.

Yes I think this is true. Sometimes he says “her” but mainly “an .. woman”. He goes as far as believing it’s the same as being gay, that it’s an urge he needs to pursue.

Everyone has urges and desires. However, that is not a reason to cheat or actually succumb to those urges. Humans are higher than animals (or should be) when it comes to carnal passions.

When it was done he would break it off and accept the help of MC to get over this. No matter how hard, he would do it. But he didn’t.

If he would accept help from MC to get over this, he could have accepted it before ever going down this road.

I know this is a stupid question but do you think the A will last months or even years?

There are no stupid questions. Please feel safe to ask whatever you need clarification of.

I think, with what you’ve shared, H is lost in a fantasy affair which is likely going to last for some time. How long depends upon how quickly H burns through his infatuation with her.

How you got to this point is rather interesting. I don’t think you entered into this marriage with the intent of it becoming open.

Your best way forward is to focus upon you.

H is affixed to his A for the moment. Nothing you can say or do to alter his current trajectory. However, your actions just might be seen and have an affect upon him down the road.

Those same actions will certainly will have an affect upon you. And you are the most important person in this equation.

D

[Bat]

Hello B

I’m cleaning up the quoting in your posts.

Here is some helpful command structure explanation for quoting:

There are a few ways to include a quote.

Below an unlocked post there are four buttons. Like, edit, reply, and quote. Pressing quote populates the quick reply dialog box (the place where one types their responses/posts) with that entire post - bookended by the quote command.

Another, and more precise method is to copy and paste what you want to quote into the command structure.

By the way, you can see the QUOTE command in action. Just press the quote button on this post to examine its syntax from the above quote.

Basically:

[ quote=User Name]Displayed Text[ /quote]

Note: I left a space between “[“ and “quote” otherwise it would be seen as the command and it will display it as a quote, and won’t display the syntax structure. You need to remove that space when actually using the command.

User Name - The name of the quoted poster. The quote box will display the title - “Originally Posted by <User Name>”.

The user name is optional to the command. Not including one will just display a title of - “Quote”.

Displayed Text - The text that will be displayed within the quote box.


The Quote button below posts is useful for showing the post with all its embedded commands expanded. Then copy - commands included if you are after such - and quote or utilize as needed. Especially useful if nesting quotes or for embedded links.

I personally prefer the more precise method to type the quote command syntax and paste in the quoted text.

Have a look (press quote button to see) at the altered posts to see all the quote and /quote statements.

I hope this makes sense.

D

I’m sorry not really but probably because I’m using my phone