W is still being irrational and is occasionally still trying to gaslight/start arguments. Every time she does this I hear “When you engage, you lose.” It’s some of the best advice I’ve gotten!
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
It’s not about being non-caring. I still care what XW is up to (at times). It’s that those thoughts don’t drag me around; don’t limit my life, behaviour, or actions; nor do those thoughts or her behaviours define me.
It’s about accepting. And as you see, ego plays a part in that struggle. “It’s not ok that you’re effing around…”, yep true. And what can you do about it? Can you prevent it? Nope. Can you force her to not? Nope. Can you influence her? Maybe. Can you alter yourself? Find peace? Yes.
You can care what she is doing, and let go.
Ego. Telling yourself “it’s not ok”, is judging her. And that reinforces your emotions. Drags you around. Let that go. It’s for God to judge her, not you.
How to let go? Realize, yes it is not ok, or wanted, or proper, or right, etc, for a married women to behave that way. (You got that step. We all get that step pretty fast.)
Then, understand her behaviour/running. Realize why (more or less). That brings about compassion and empathy. I think you are doing well in this as well.
All this allows one to let go their self need to be right, to control. To put aside their ego, even just temporarily, until being nonjudgemental becomes a core value, a belief. You likely have some inclination of the trauma(s) W suffered in her early years. Not an excuse for her, however a reason to find acceptance and forgiveness. Ask yourself, if you suffered the same, where would you’ve ended up? Fate, luck, whatever it is, you and I are on paths different than our respective spouse’s. Realize how blessed that is. Rather humbling. And should highlight the influence of one’e ego upon one’s perception.
Acceptance and forgiveness. Accepting does not mean condoning. Condoning is ignoring something morally wrong or offensive, to allow its continuation. From a few steps up, you realize the immorality of it, and you realize you cannot prevent it. You are not ignoring and allowing, for the continuation is solely up to W. That’s acceptance in a nutshell.
Forgiving is completely upon you. Nothing W can do will earn her forgiveness, in so much as you need to see some behaviour or hear some words before bestowing your forgiveness. That’s not how forgiveness works. In fact, you likely won’t (and probably shouldn’t) ever even tell her. You find it within yourself to let go the grudge and write paid in full upon the bill, and your actions will display such.
Your path is to place your focus elsewhere, a good place is upon yourself and kids; to live and love your life; and give W time and space. That doesn’t mean ignore W, more just let her to her path and journey, while you traverse your’s.
Fortunately, your two paths still interact. Becoming the best version of yourself, is awesome for you, and maximizes your chances of reconciling.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
We come to this place at arguably the lowest emotional point in our lives and work together to help each other not only survive, but thrive, heal and become better people.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
A good way to think about it is to realize that you only get, on average, 80 laps around the sun.
The last 10-15 usually aren’t that great, managing health problems.
The first 15-20 you’re learning and deciding on a career. So you really only get about 45-50 years where you can have a great, unrestricted life. And there’s a 50% chance you’ll get less than 80 years.
Every day is a gift. Stop sitting around, worrying about what might be, and trying to cajole someone into loving you again. This person, who is destroying your marriage, are you going to let them ruin the best years of your life? Will you sit around, worrying about it, trying desperately to fix it back to what it was, knowing that it obviously wasn’t that great anyway?
When you’re 80 years old, and the light is getting very dim, will you look back on the years you stopped your life trying to get this person back? Will you regret not going out and living your best life every single day when suddenly you have very few remaining?
LH is right. Your ticket to happiness is to live every minute to the full. Become the best you can possibly be. Fix what you identify YOU did wrong in the relationship. What your partner did wrong - who gives a sh*t? That’s their problem, not yours - and you can’t fix it, the only way that will ever change is if THEY decide to change themselves. Find what makes you tick. Go and do things you enjoy. Find hobbies, get fit, eat fine food, connect with and love your kids like you’ve never done before.
If your partner decides they want in, then maybe you will reconcile. But if you waste your life trying to get them back and it doesn’t work out, I guarantee you’ll look back on that time in later life as a waste of an amazing opportunity.
I came here three years ago, shocked, horrified, broken and lost. The day I let it all go and decided to ignore her dumpster fire and live my best life - that’s when I found true happiness.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Relationships generally fall apart for one of three reasons: (1) One partner becomes emotionally unstable for a variety of reasons, which may include mental illness, addiction, issues related to a bad childhood, etc. (2) One partner has a momentary lapse of judgement and cheats and the other partner can't forgive them, or (3) the relationship slowly degrades over time for both people.
In the first case, sometimes people have latent issues and they either temporarily get better (an addict stops using for a while, a person with a mood disorder pursues treatment, etc), *or* the partner knows the issues are there and chooses to ignore them initially, fooling themselves or falsely believing that things will magically get better in the future.
This "fooling yourself" phenomenon is a lot of what goes on -- you fall in love with who you want the person to be versus who they really are. Over time, your veneer gets stripped away, you see them for who they really are and it’s no longer acceptable.
The tragic situation is when someone who was emotionally healthy when you met and dated them has a breakdown after you're married and just becomes unlivable due to their issues. That's rare but it certainly does happen, people just "go crazy" sometimes.
The third scenario is really what the quote above is about. Chances are if the husband is ignoring the wife's complaints, it’s because he's not very motivated to respond to them. The reason is generally that he's not having his needs met either, and his complaints are likely also being ignored.
That's the vicious cycle that tends to land people here -- your needs aren't being met, so you're less motivated to provide your wife with what she needs. Her needs aren't being met, so she's not motivated to give you what you need, and that spinning wheel eventually drives you apart until one person (or both people) decides they want out.
Sometimes the scenarios are combined, you could have all three things going on.
My point is, unless you "went crazy" after you married W, this is in *no way* your fault for not responding to her complaints. She is equally if not more culpable than you are in that regard. Don't let her off the hook for that, and don't shoulder the blame.
It's good to be aware of these dynamics so that you can identify and avoid them in the future, but you're not guilty.
Here's what I mean when I say "make things worse": you are genetically wired to protect your wife and kids. When she's in distress, your first instinct is going to be to try to make things better. When you feel that you're making an effort to relieve her distress, it brings you a feeling of relief.
When you don't respond to her distress, it’s going to make you feel uncomfortable. You're going to get a cortisol dump and it’s going to be very tempting to act to make that bad feeling stop.
You'll tell yourself stories that you're being a bad person, or that you're "pushing her away" to justify trying to relieve your discomfort. "Making things worse" means that you grin and bear it.
You basically need to withdraw support -- emotional support and financial support to the degree possible. If she makes a mess, *she* needs to clean it up. You do not step in and enable her in any way.
If she gets mad at you, you shrug it off, you don't engage.
If she cries in front of you, you let her cry and you make NO effort to comfort her.
You go out and "get a life" and you don't feel *any* responsibility to explain or justify what you're doing, you just do it.
Very important: You are *not* mean, punishing, or passive aggressive. You don't make nasty comments. You don't go out of your way to inconvenience her, you simply act as if you are completely uninterested and unaffected by her.
If she wants to make love to OM in your front yard, you walk past, smile and wave. It just doesn't impact you emotionally.
When she senses that she's losing control over you, she *will* fight back. She will try to manipulate you to stay invested in her. The more you resist, the harder she will try. She'll scream and yell, she'll accuse, she'll break down and cry, she'll blame. The minute you engage, you lose. This will be uncomfortable, it will feel *worse* than giving in to her and engaging. That's what making things worse means.
Often people mistake this fighting on the part of the WAW as interest -- that they want you back and that's why they're engaging you. Don't be fooled -- you being emotionally invested in her is an insurance policy and nothing else. If things go horribly wrong with her affair partners and outside interests, she can always come back to her comfortable marriage.
It’s a huge comfort to know that she has you to fall back on if things go badly for her. You need to pull that safety net away entirely.
She needs to *fully believe* that you will not be there for her if she chooses to return, and that if she wants to come back she's going to have to work for it.
You can't tell her that, she'll never believe it. You have to show her that beyond a doubt with your actions.
Ever run into a crazy person on the sidewalk who points at you and yells at you? You do what you can to minimize the interaction but after that you move on. It doesn't ruin your day, it certainly doesn't hurt your self-esteem or make you feel worse about who you are.
You need to regard her with exactly the same level of detachment and disinterest. Whatever she does, your toes are still tapping.
At the same time, you have to build a life for yourself that anyone would want to be a part of, full of fun activities, outside interests, and engaging friends. If you can do both of those things -- completely emotionally uncouple from her (fake it until you make it) *and* build an amazing life for yourself, she'll clamor to come back and if she doesn't you won't care. That's your only winning path out of where you are, but getting there is going to be uncomfortable, and more painful than you feel today, because it will go against your white knight nature. Rock, I'm very sorry you're here. Everything she told you about your faults was nonsense to justify her affair. When you then respond to her complaints you validate them, so she feels even more entitled to have her affair.
You've been trying to "nice your way back" for the last seven months.
It's not working, it will never work.
You cannot placate her, you cannot "prove your love" through acts of giving and support.
You also cannot push her away by withdrawing support.
She has chosen her course of action, and as of right now, *nothing* you do will impact it.
Your shortest path back together is to go the opposite direction.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I’ve realized that what’s going to happen is going to happen, no matter what I do to try and control it. All it does is cause me anxiety and stress when I try to control. I am not perfect but working toward dropping the rope and acceptance of whatever the situation is. It’s up to me on how I handle my part. A lot easier said than done.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Part One: your relationship with your kids is your business.
your wife's relationship with your kids is not your business.
read that again.
your job as their parent is to make sure your relationship with them is solid.
your job as their parent in this situation is the following: 1. don't parentify them 2. don't interfere in any way with their relationship with their mother - no roadblocks, no efforts to smooth anything over either. 3. basically don't create a crisis and don't try to fix one. 4. if a crisis happens, be their dad. they will need that.
Part Two Don't confuse or project your feelings about the state of your marriage with how your children may or may not feel about it.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
My divorce situation, which was remarkably similar to everyone else who lands here, has led me down a path where I now have a great interest in the psychology behind separation and divorce.
While lots of people bond on this website over similarities in the behaviour of crazy spouses (MLC, childhood trauma, blowing up their lives, affair partner after affair partner, swinging wildly from “this will never work” to “I want to make this work”)…. I find even more interest in the similarity of the types of people that arrive on this board.
Inevitably, there’s a large percentage of new arrivals here who fit a fairly standard mould - medium term relationship (10-20 years), mid thirties to mid fifties, people who have strong convictions about the sanctity of marriage … and people who, generally, are fixers and peacekeepers who feel incredibly uncomfortable at the prospect of life change.
Generally, they appear at this website with their first post, seemingly baffled that their partner has ended up walking away from the marriage. Then there’s the inevitable affairs (that they all strenuously deny at first), then there’s the short term embracing of DB principles (such as going dark) to try and push their partner to re-engage in the relationship, but often they only last a week or two on these strategies before cracking.
By far the most common theme I see here, is LBS who arrive with an over-inflated opinion of the goodness of their spouse. They’ll even make excuses for their spouse’s behaviour. “She couldn’t possibly be having an affair.” “We were a happy little family until OW blew it up.” “His behaviour isn’t really him, it’s rooted in MLC, or grief, or childhood trauma.” Or in your case “He just needed to get it out of his system, but underneath I still believe he’s a good person.”
The LBS (like you and me) and their passive behaviours over many years trying to keep everything the same, worsens the power balance in the relationship. So when the ticking time bomb finally explodes, the LBS thinks they just have to fix or pacify their WS even more than before to get the relationship back on the rails. That’s what’s worked previously, right?
The cold, harsh reality is that most likely, the old, nice person that you think is hiding under the affair or depression or MLC, was never really there in the first place.
In your case, your husband isn’t a great family guy with good morals who just needed to knock out a few foreign ladies to quench some sickening thirst. He’s actually been that person all along. So when you come here going “Will this affair just last a few months, I’m sure he’ll want to get back with me eventually” - I’m hugely sceptical.
Part of the the problem is that you can’t see this objectively, because you’ve built a life with this person and have spent 10+ years thinking that he’s someone he is not.
Sometimes, it can help if you re-frame it by looking from the outside in. I want you to do this exercise: Imagine your best friend and her husband. She takes you out for coffee, and sits you down and says:
1. Her husband started moving away from the relationship 2. At MC, she eventually agreed her husband could have sex once with someone else. 3. He promised to re-engage with MC straight after. 4. He has some sort of sick sexual pre-disposition or fantasy about women of a certain ethnicity 5. Once he got his way, he immediately back flipped and continues to sleep with other women.
What would you say to her? If she asked you if you thought it likely he would snap out of it in a few months and come running back 100% committed to the marriage, what would you say?
His behaviour is not suggestive of some sort of short term wobble. It’s suggestive of serious, long term character flaws and perhaps addictions which would likely take many years to fix, and only if he truly wanted to do something about it.
I apologize for my skepticism, and it would make me very happy to be proven wrong when he comes crawling back in a month or two begging for your forgiveness. I’m really hopeful that you come out the other side of this a better and stronger human. I have everything crossed for you that it works out for the best, no matter the outcome.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
We have a thing at this forum called a 2x4 (which refers to a big long piece of construction timber, 2 inches by 4 inches). Sometimes we joke about people needing to get hit over the head with it, so they’ll wake up and see what everyone else is seeing.
I sorta feel like I need to dish one out to you… but don’t take it the wrong way, it comes from a place of love and kindness. We can see from your posts that you’re struggling. We all want the best for you.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
