Your last point here hits home. I need to be resolute and determined NOT to try to get back to ‘normal’ it didn’t work didn’t get the job done and isn’t what W or I want. And I don’t want this!
Yes, it is. Perhaps the hardest thing you'll go through in life. However, there comes a point when you're just willfully ignoring seasoned advice and going to do whatever you want regardless and make excuses for why. It's your life, so that's your choice - but you've been warned.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I don’t know how to handle this, not respond at all (too late) respond properly to her without engaging?
Too late not to respond this time. But what will you do next time? If I were a betting man I know what I'd put my money on...
Originally Posted by Rockon
I find text messaging and email difficult mediums to talk about heart stuff.
YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO BE TALKING ABOUT HEART STUFF! One of the top rules here is NO R TALKS! We're not suggesting emails as a medium so you can have heartful R talks. It's for brief, limited necessary business. Period.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I think that as some here have said, don’t respond, don’t engage - we are not at that stage.
Almost everyone here has said don't response, don't engage. Multiple vets. Repeatedly. All through your thread. Go back and re-read the advice me, Kind, LH, R2C..etc, etc has given. I don't think there's a single poster here who thinks what you need is more engagement with W. And yes, you are at that stage - W has moved out, had an affair, and has made no mention of reconciling. IF she comes back to you and wants to reconcile that's another story.
Originally Posted by Rockon
From her text responses to me, it seems like she got what she “wanted” I imagine her thinking I gave a lame response but at least I responded confirming what she expected.
Rockon - Almost all of your posts here have been analysis of your W and how you should respond. Seems to me you think if you can just analyze her, stay engage, respond "perfectly" things will work out. It's the general consensus around here that's likely to fail.
Originally Posted by Rockon
As far as truth darts. Definitely been thinking about it. Again want to pause take my time seek counsel and take a wise course of action.
Thinking, pausing, contemplating, seeking counsel...etc. Your thread is full of that. How about ACTION?
Sorry to be harsh. Others can feel free to correct me and put me in my place. But it doesn't seem like you're listening at all.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
BL I am listening. And you are on track and not harsh. I have been making mistakes not because I’m not listening but I’m seeking to do what I believe to be right. And my beliefs of what the right things to do are changing. And I’m understanding more.
How much research have you done on attraction and seduction?
Us men are typically simple creatures. Visually attracted to the ladies.
Women are much more complex and are more attracted to a mans behavior. She lost her attraction for you. Plain and simple. Your behavior has to change during this period if you want any chance of attracting her back.
Lots of layers of the onion for you to peel back.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I’m ramping it up again. Fell out of routine on the holidays but my Ss and friends are into it and so am I. Boxing, hiking, lifting weights and mobility relaxation exercises.
See the connection? When you were prioritising exercise you felt better in yourself, interacted with her less and were more in control of your life.
When you dropped the ball and stopped vigorous daily exercising, you felt bad, interacted and had trouble managing your emotions.
The link between your mental health and exercise is very strong.
How much research have you done on attraction and seduction?
Us men are typically simple creatures. Visually attracted to the ladies.
Women are much more complex and are more attracted to a mans behavior. She lost her attraction for you. Plain and simple. Your behavior has to change during this period if you want any chance of attracting her back.
Lots of layers of the onion for you to peel back.
Do you have any readings you recommended beyond Robert Greene? Anything specific?
Relationships generally fall apart for one of three reasons: (1) One partner becomes emotionally unstable for a variety of reasons, which may include mental illness, addiction, issues related to a bad childhood, etc. (2) One partner has a momentary lapse of judgement and cheats and the other partner can't forgive them, or (3) the relationship slowly degrades over time for both people.
In the first case, sometimes people have latent issues and they either temporarily get better (an addict stops using for a while, a person with a mood disorder pursues treatment, etc), *or* the partner knows the issues are there and chooses to ignore them initially, fooling themselves or falsely believing that things will magically get better in the future.
This "fooling yourself" phenomenon is a lot of what goes on -- you fall in love with who you want the person to be versus who they really are. Over time, your veneer gets stripped away, you see them for who they really are and it’s no longer acceptable.
The tragic situation is when someone who was emotionally healthy when you met and dated them has a breakdown after you're married and just becomes unlivable due to their issues. That's rare but it certainly does happen, people just "go crazy" sometimes.
The third scenario is really what the quote above is about. Chances are if the husband is ignoring the wife's complaints, it’s because he's not very motivated to respond to them. The reason is generally that he's not having his needs met either, and his complaints are likely also being ignored.
That's the vicious cycle that tends to land people here -- your needs aren't being met, so you're less motivated to provide your wife with what she needs. Her needs aren't being met, so she's not motivated to give you what you need, and that spinning wheel eventually drives you apart until one person (or both people) decides they want out.
Sometimes the scenarios are combined, you could have all three things going on.
My point is, unless you "went crazy" after you married W, this is in *no way* your fault for not responding to her complaints. She is equally if not more culpable than you are in that regard. Don't let her off the hook for that, and don't shoulder the blame.
It's good to be aware of these dynamics so that you can identify and avoid them in the future, but you're not guilty.
Here's what I mean when I say "make things worse": you are genetically wired to protect your wife and kids. When she's in distress, your first instinct is going to be to try to make things better. When you feel that you're making an effort to relieve her distress, it brings you a feeling of relief.
When you don't respond to her distress, it’s going to make you feel uncomfortable. You're going to get a cortisol dump and it’s going to be very tempting to act to make that bad feeling stop.
You'll tell yourself stories that you're being a bad person, or that you're "pushing her away" to justify trying to relieve your discomfort. "Making things worse" means that you grin and bear it.
You basically need to withdraw support -- emotional support and financial support to the degree possible. If she makes a mess, *she* needs to clean it up. You do not step in and enable her in any way.
If she gets mad at you, you shrug it off, you don't engage.
If she cries in front of you, you let her cry and you make NO effort to comfort her.
You go out and "get a life" and you don't feel *any* responsibility to explain or justify what you're doing, you just do it.
Very important: You are *not* mean, punishing, or passive aggressive. You don't make nasty comments. You don't go out of your way to inconvenience her, you simply act as if you are completely uninterested and unaffected by her.
If she wants to make love to OM in your front yard, you walk past, smile and wave. It just doesn't impact you emotionally.
When she senses that she's losing control over you, she *will* fight back. She will try to manipulate you to stay invested in her. The more you resist, the harder she will try. She'll scream and yell, she'll accuse, she'll break down and cry, she'll blame. The minute you engage, you lose. This will be uncomfortable, it will feel *worse* than giving in to her and engaging. That's what making things worse means.
Often people mistake this fighting on the part of the WAW as interest -- that they want you back and that's why they're engaging you. Don't be fooled -- you being emotionally invested in her is an insurance policy and nothing else. If things go horribly wrong with her affair partners and outside interests, she can always come back to her comfortable marriage.
It’s a huge comfort to know that she has you to fall back on if things go badly for her. You need to pull that safety net away entirely.
She needs to *fully believe* that you will not be there for her if she chooses to return, and that if she wants to come back she's going to have to work for it.
You can't tell her that, she'll never believe it. You have to show her that beyond a doubt with your actions.
Ever run into a crazy person on the sidewalk who points at you and yells at you? You do what you can to minimize the interaction but after that you move on. It doesn't ruin your day, it certainly doesn't hurt your self-esteem or make you feel worse about who you are.
You need to regard her with exactly the same level of detachment and disinterest. Whatever she does, your toes are still tapping.
At the same time, you have to build a life for yourself that anyone would want to be a part of, full of fun activities, outside interests, and engaging friends. If you can do both of those things -- completely emotionally uncouple from her (fake it until you make it) *and* build an amazing life for yourself, she'll clamor to come back and if she doesn't you won't care. That's your only winning path out of where you are, but getting there is going to be uncomfortable, and more painful than you feel today, because it will go against your white knight nature. Rock, I'm very sorry you're here. Everything she told you about your faults was nonsense to justify her affair. When you then respond to her complaints you validate them, so she feels even more entitled to have her affair.
You've been trying to "nice your way back" for the last seven months.
It's not working, it will never work.
You cannot placate her, you cannot "prove your love" through acts of giving and support.
You also cannot push her away by withdrawing support.
She has chosen her course of action, and as of right now, *nothing* you do will impact it.
Your shortest path back together is to go the opposite direction.
