Living With WAW 4

[DW17]

Aside from that, not much else has popped up. I finished reading DR again. I was upset about the stagnation of things a few days ago, but then read in DR where Michele talks about taking a step back and trying to see any small changes. I have noticed a few.

W was proactive about being the one to handle dinner this week. It was something I was trying to figure out how to address with her, as I set a plan to split weeks and last time she didn’t follow through. Sunday she brought it up by saying “I’ve got dinner this week, right?” Problem solved.

W has actually come home at night the past several times she went out with her friends.

W has been doing a little more around the house than she was previously. Still not very helpful, but a small improvement.

She has spent a little less time hiding in the bathtub or in her bed downstairs. She ate dinner with the family twice in the past week, something she hadn’t done in months.

So small improvements. My counselor said I may be grasping at straws. Possibly. But he isn’t able to compare the past 2 weeks to her behavior prior to that. We’ll see how the next few weeks go.

Also, W invited me to go to a holiday light parade last night. She originally asked if I wanted to go today and I said she could just take the kids. This morning she said she is going next Friday and asked if I wanted to get off work early and go. I believe she is going with a friend’s family based on how she phrased it. I said I’d think about it and let her know. I don’t plan on going and I intend to go out with friends instead. It’s hard to say no to things like this, but I feel it’s the right decision. I am trying to avoid as much joint activities so W feels like she is at least missing something from me. It’s a 180 for me as I’m usually the puppy dog following whatever she comes up with. I feel good about the thought process, even though it’s hard not spending those moments with the kids. I’ve been spending a ton of time with them doing other things though, so I’ll see how this goes as well.

[BL42]

DW17,

I’ve had a few things happen that I normally would have sought advice, but I’m learning how to handle these situations based on the advice I’ve already received which is nice. I feel like I get caught off guard less often.

Well done. Knowledge = power!

I told her I had invited my family and W blew up. She was mad at me for not thinking about her feelings about being around my family, she said it gives her anxiety, they haven’t been a big part of D4’s life so I shouldn’t have invited them, my selfishness confirms that she made the right decision to D, I haven’t learned anything, this was supposed to be a kid only party, etc. I just listened and kept my mouth shut.

Good job listening and keeping your mouth shut. I don't know your family dynamics, but unless they're abusive or something you have every right to invite your family to your daughter's birthday party.

In terms of the "confirms that she made the right decision to D" remember...no matter what you do WAS/WSs will say that. You get her an anniversary gift and she told you she needs space and you're not listening to her therefore she should D you; you don't get her a gift and it shows you really don't care and she should D you. She is going to use ANYTHING as evidence to validate her decision. You can not win, so don't stress on it.

The next day W said she did not sleep that night due to anxiety and said she had a panic attack thinking about it.

You did not break her, and it's not your job to fix her. Nor can you. She's choosing her path - let her deal with it.

There is also the possibility that she is lying or exaggerating her feelings, but I don’t think that was the case.

I doubt she was exaggerating and lying about her feelings - most likely they were real - doesn't mean they were based on logic and reason. So don't beat yourself up over it.

I think I’ll just say something along the lines of “It’s too late to address your concerns about my family for this birthday party, but I know these discussions are important and should happen prior to any future events where you may be around my family.”

Not bad. Refresh yourself on validation and use it - don't argue to reason about it - just listen and validate.

DW17 sounds like you're doing a good job of controlling your emotions and listening without reacting. Keep it up. Just know your W is feeling guilty and angry over what she's doing and likely projecting that onto you. Deflect it and let it roll off your back and keep smiling and living your best life.

[BL42]

DW17,

So small improvements. My counselor said I may be grasping at straws. Possibly. But he isn’t able to compare the past 2 weeks to her behavior prior to that. We’ll see how the next few weeks go.

Your counselor is probably in the near term, but you don't know how things will change over time. Remember actions over a long period of time.

I don’t plan on going and I intend to go out with friends instead. It’s hard to say no to things like this, but I feel it’s the right decision. I am trying to avoid as much joint activities so W feels like she is at least missing something from me. It’s a 180 for me as I’m usually the puppy dog following whatever she comes up with. I feel good about the thought process, even though it’s hard not spending those moments with the kids. I’ve been spending a ton of time with them doing other things though, so I’ll see how this goes as well.

Good for you! Tough for a lot of newbies to not be that puppy dog.

[LH19]

I said I’d think about it and let her know.

Good but...... Thank you I already have plans is way better.

I don’t plan on going and I intend to go out with friends instead. It’s hard to say no to things like this, but I feel it’s the right decision.

Why is it hard to say "no"?

I am trying to avoid as much joint activities so W feels like she is at least missing something from me.

Exactly!

It’s a 180 for me as I’m usually the puppy dog following whatever she comes up with.

Unfortunately this most likely landed you here.

I’ve been spending a ton of time with them doing other things though, so I’ll see how this goes as well.

Enjoy your kids.

[Ready2Change]

D4’s birthday is coming up. W has not participated in any of the planning so far so I took the lead. I booked the location (a swimming pool), got the decorations picked out and invited some of my family. We have had a couple of parties here before. W and I didn’t talk much about it until Monday when W asked if I had invited anyone. I told her I had invited my family and W blew up. She was mad at me for not thinking about her feelings about being around my family...

As others say, she will be angry no matter what you do. So you do the right thing for your D.

You can "test" her with this:
"I have been thinking about what you said and I think it is best if you don't go to the pool with my family." This may (most likely will) result ina an emotional reaction (which you are fine with).

Another option is to give her a choice, She can invite her family and join you at the pool or she can celebrate in a different way at a different time with her family. Her choice. You are fine with either choice.

[DonH]

Respecting how she feels has been an issue for me in the past. I would discard thoughts like this as irrational because they didn’t make sense to me.

Of the many things you wrote, this jumped at me the most. They don’t make sense to you because they are nonsense. You can’t make sense out of nonsense. From a very distant view your wife seems to be a bit of a broken whack job. She doesn’t want grandma and grandpa at child's birthday? And this caused her to meltdown, not sleep, etc? Seems like a dream woman to live with. Has she been like this throughout the M? Then she had to run to C to unpack it all?

Don’t get drug into her drama and insanity. As I’ve asked others, is a wife like this who you want to continue to live with between now and dead?

[Kind18]

Like Steve said, the correct response to her going berserk about your family going to the pool - validate but don’t change.

Best response “Sounds like you’re upset.”

And then that’s it. Zip it. You’ve validated that she is being an irrational whack job and she feels heard, but ain’t your job to do anything about it.

Don’t add “I’ll think about it” or “perhaps I can change xyz”.

Forget trying to do anything, because to her right now, anything you try to do/say/fix/change is a waste of time.

Just reflect her own feelings back at her and then get on with your life. Her - I’m angry. You - Sounds like you’re angry. End of discussion.

Stop trying to fix things, that’s nice guy syndrome.

And if you don’t want to go out with her Friday, tell her you’ve made other plans. You seem afraid of how she might respond? You’re a grown ass man!

[DW17]

Haven’t posted in a bit, but there’s really not much to update. Had D4’s birthday party this weekend and that went well. Went out with some friends for some drinks/trivia night. Started a 12 week half marathon training schedule. Got a bit behind with reading, but hoping to catch up this week. I was trying to read 3 books at once which was a dumb plan. No more sleep issues. D4 was sick all last week so I stayed home with her. We drove around town with D18 looking at xmas lights and decorated cookies last night. It’s been an enjoyable couple of weeks.

W hasn’t really changed at all. Still mainly avoiding the family by staying downstairs. Still upsetting the kids with her lack of involvement in the family. D18 has been pretty bummed about certain things being her “lasts” since she’s off to college next year, and her mom choosing to not be part of some of these last memories has gotten to her. W is still being irrational and is occasionally still trying to gaslight/start arguments. Every time she does this I hear “When you engage, you lose.” It’s some of the best advice I’ve gotten! At the birthday party W was basically just there – didn’t help with anything. It bothers me less and less each day, as I’ve come to expect nothing from her.

The biggest change the past few weeks has been my reactions to her behavior. I’m not sure if I don’t care anymore or what, but I feel indifferent to her even being in the house. Our 18th anniversary was yesterday and I didn’t even really care. I actually forgot about it until the afternoon. W didn’t mention it until the evening when she jokingly asked if I was going to buy her flowers and I just said no and continued with what I was doing. It’s weird. Reflecting on things now, it’s kind of sad. I’m not sure if my feelings are a good thing or a bad thing, but things just seem more peaceful when W isn’t around. Much different from a few months ago when I couldn’t even sleep when she was gone. Is this how detachment feels, or am I starting to give up? I'm not sure.

But anyway, still trying to increase my social circle. Joined a FB group of local hikers and connected with a coworker there. Once the weather is better, I’ll be doing some hikes with them. Trying to figure out plans for NYE. I might just stay home with the kids and plan a fun night. Not much else going on, just getting ready for Christmas. I hope everyone is doing well.

[LH19]

Every time she does this I hear “When you engage, you lose.” It’s some of the best advice I’ve gotten!

Every wise man once said that lol.

The biggest change the past few weeks has been my reactions to her behavior. I’m not sure if I don’t care anymore or what, but I feel indifferent to her even being in the house.

My guess is you are coming out of the denial stage.

Our 18th anniversary was yesterday and I didn’t even really care. I actually forgot about it until the afternoon. W didn’t mention it until the evening when she jokingly asked if I was going to buy her flowers and I just said no and continued with what I was doing.

I would have said no but I bought myself a new shirt.

It’s weird. Reflecting on things now, it’s kind of sad.

It will be sad for a long time DW but you will feel it and move on.

I’m not sure if my feelings are a good thing or a bad thing, but things just seem more peaceful when W isn’t around.

It's a great thing and will only be better once she moves out.

Much different from a few months ago when I couldn’t even sleep when she was gone. Is this how detachment feels, or am I starting to give up?

You are starting to detach and accept what is happening. She will not like it and try to bait you back in.. Stay strong.

[DnJ]

Good Morning DW

I was trying to read 3 books at once which was a dumb plan.

So the stories get a bit mixed up. Lol. The orcs left Rivendell and attacks the Death Star while Neo consulted Gandalf about the future of the matrix-shire. And agent Vader-Smith found some kind of ring or something or other.

The biggest change the past few weeks has been my reactions to her behavior. I’m not sure if I don’t care anymore or what, but I feel indifferent to her even being in the house. Our 18th anniversary was yesterday and I didn’t even really care. I actually forgot about it until the afternoon. W didn’t mention it until the evening when she jokingly asked if I was going to buy her flowers and I just said no and continued with what I was doing. It’s weird. Reflecting on things now, it’s kind of sad. I’m not sure if my feelings are a good thing or a bad thing, but things just seem more peaceful when W isn’t around. Much different from a few months ago when I couldn’t even sleep when she was gone. Is this how detachment feels, or am I starting to give up? I'm not sure.

Sounds like indifference.

Detachment is not being uncontrollable dragged around by your emotions. Indifference is feeling muted emotions or numb to the situation.

Other feelings will appear and loom large against the void of indifference. Give yourself time to acclimatize to it. Lots of temptations during this time. Avoid making major life decisions based upon emotions or lack thereof.

Indifference is temporary. Like all emotions it is fleeting, and does unwind. Feelings do return. This temporary stage is an excellent opportunity to discover yourself without the noise and distractions of W and the situation.

When you exit indifference, especially after doing some inner work, you will find detachment still remains. As well as the peace it provides.

I suspect it seems rather strange losing your feelings towards W. It’s perfectly normal. And temporary. And part of the path towards acceptance.

Take care, remain kind and compassionate, and have a Merry Christmas.

D