W’s comment about how does she know if she crosses any boundaries if you do not tell her what they are, does have some validity. A little bit. Like maybe 10%. Her statement is mostly her just deflecting accountability, rather than actually wanting to know.
Boundaries are for you. They are a mechanism for extracting one from an unhealthy or toxic situation. Boundaries define the action you will take when W behaves in a certain manner.
Boundaries are clearly laid out. With a clearly defined proceeding event or behaviour, and a rock-solid enforcement which is your action.
Boundaries need not be stated to the W, or whomever the boundary is for, the clearly defined is really for you. You have clearly spelt it out. This defining happens when you are calm, and not embroiled within the unhealthy situation. In this manner, boundaries are logical, reasoned, pre-defined, planned actions you take when certain behaviour occurs.
However, stating your boundary is often a good idea. Be ready, it will be tested. Most people who partake in emotional attacks, especially an angry errant spouse, will smash against your boundary. Like a teenager, they smash against your resolve. Testing for cracks and weakness. And like a teenager, they rebel, as they learn just where you stand.
An aside, having been a teenager myself , and having had four teenagers, they need to test. They need to know and believe in your strength. That you have a spine and will do what you say. Not fold like a house of cards. To know, to believe, that you can be counted on.
Realize boundaries are not for behaviour modification. The focus is about you extracting yourself from unhealthy situations, not stopping the unhealthy situation. That being said, most people will and do positively respond to boundaries, self-modifying their behaviour. Most folks do not wish to punch the wall over and over and over. They actually just don’t understand how their behaviour is seen. And by far, folks do not want to be the villain.
Reciprocity is at play as well. Responding, not reacting. Positively responding to a situation influences change within the other person. Kindness begets kindness. Fighting begets fighting. Like for like. Lead by example.
People will treat you as you let them. And further, people will treat you as you show them.
A boundary is about what you can control and what you cannot. At its heart, most boundaries are about disrespect. Disrespectful behaviour.
Respect is needed for trust, loyalty, love, character, etc. Disrespect tears that down.
An example of a boundary:
W, calling me names is disrespectful. When you start disrespectful name calling, I will cease our conversation and leave the room.
Originally Posted by FwdMvmt
Think the credit card lock was wrong move, but didn’t have much time to think.
The word “but” is often used to justify an action. It’s not that you didn’t have much time to think. It’s that you didn’t take the time to think. You reacted.
Doing nothing is doing something.
Consider this. W could have just bought the tickets without even talking to you. So the “actual” purchase of the tickets is not likely the issue. So what is it that bothered you? Figure that out.
And I mean within you. Something inside you caused you to react. Discover what that is. And why it is. Then you can alter it to better serve you. You only control you.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I love the advice in these threads. Thank you all for the responses.
My biggest question of the most recent responses is around some of what Sandi2 said and what some in here are saying. When is the right time to have conversations with a wayward wife. I have been walking out of the room when she enters, not paying much attention and trying to be scarce. It feels cold to me. I feel like the Wayward advice is different than what I read in DB. It seems like WW advice is much stricter toward them. I could be misreading.
As for my GAL I just started this process last week. We set up a schedule which we didn’t have before and will be jumping in fully to GAL. I have been home every night over the last 3-4 months unless traveling for work to make sure I spend time with S6.
Mach, Here are my answers to the questions you asked and thank you for your post!
What do you want ???? I want to be healthy, happy and spiritually for. Ideally this includes my family intact with my W.
What are you willing to work for ??? I am willing to work 100% on getting myself better and the best interests of my family
How badly do you really want this ??? My family is the most important thing to me in my life, next to God. There is nothing I want more in this life. I can’t do anything for them if I am not my best self.
Mach, Here are my answers to the questions you asked and thank you for your post!
What do you want ???? I want to be healthy, happy and spiritually for. Ideally this includes my family intact with my W.
What are you willing to work for ??? I am willing to work 100% on getting myself better and the best interests of my family
How badly do you really want this ??? My family is the most important thing to me in my life, next to God. There is nothing I want more in this life. I can’t do anything for them if I am not my best self.
<<<insert Family Feud Clap>>>
Good answers...
Is what happened this past weekend, the best that you can do ???
Cause I want you to think about this for now...
When, and typically, when a person finds themselves here, and asking the kinds of questions that you are, and having the kind of interactions that you are having...
The marriage that you once knew is over and gone.
And I see so much of you still trying to (understandable at this point) use the rules of the old marriage and apply to whatever this new situation is....
Being all of that for you, is exactly as it is written.......for you
One thing I want to bring up is the religious part of this.
I do understand how and why you feel that way..
In all of my years here, I have NEVER seen a WAS turn because of their faith.
I've seen major work done after their bottom because of it, yet never a turn in the heat of the battle....
I can tell you that although it might be a hill that you are willing to stand on, make sure that it is YOUR hill for now....She won't be beside you.
One thing that a WAS fears the most is judgement, and a close second being the guilt that they are having because of their decisions.
And you my new friend, have the Grand Prize Winner there in Catholicism..
She will turn her back on religion, especially Catholicism because of that . The most common line that I've heard is that my religion turned it's back on me when I needed it, so I am turning my back on it now.
Just be prepared, if that is your hard line, to have it crossed.
Make sense ??
For now though, she isn't YOUR answer to get where you want to be....
So maybe stop looking to her for those answers..
Family ? Man, don't depend on them either.
For her family ?
Blood is way thicker than water, remember that always, and even if it doesn't seem that way now, eventually they will show their true colors.
Yours?
Man, this isn't an open mic forum to bash her. Keep it light and let them know that this is your decision, and they either support YOU, or it's not up for discussion.
Keep that path smooth for down the road. It's easier to walk that way....
One thing that was always in the back of my mind during this was....
This will all be public knowledge one day...
What would I want my kids to read, when it is.....
SteveLW, how do you suggest they attempt boundary setting without a third party to referee ??
Boundaries are the most misunderstood concept on the board, in my opinion. Boundaries aren't about the behavior of the walkaway, it is to guide the LBS's actions in relation.
Any boundary that tries to affect the behavior of the WAS is pressure and pursuit in the name of trying to control what you cannot control.
Let's take FM's situation. Maybe his boundary is that he won't tolerate her continued use of drugs. Any boundary that starts with "I told her......" is wrong. Which is why a 3rd party is not necessary for boundary setting.
The general format for a boundary is:
"If she does X, I will do Y." You don't have to state it. You don't have to tell her anything. You take action.
"If I find out she is using again, I will go file for divorce, hire a lawyer, and push for full custody of my kids."
No need to state. Just do. And in fact we had a great example of this on this board (I believe his screen name was mbr, I wish he still posted!)
Let me clarify my position on boundaries - they are for the person setting them, not the person they are directed at.
They are not going to be able to come to any consensus without a neutral third party. She's too far gone. And whatever she agrees to isn't going to stick, but at least the attempt will have been made.
As you've laid these boundaries out - they aren't boundaries, dude. There's never even any conversation to let the other person know where they stand. What you're talking about, imho, is dominance.
How's that working for anyone?
It isn't. It doesn't.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
boundaries need to be stated. consequences need to be laid out. people need to communicate. if most of the married people on this board could actually communicate in a healthy way they wouldn't be here.
yes, individuals need to know what they will and will not tolerate. However, not communicating that to their spouse and going directly to the consequence only fuels the problem - classic and literal case in point - FM's wife actually tossed things into a fire after he shut down the CCs. His boundary was clearly that she didn't listen when he said they would discuss it later, his consequence to her not listening was shutting off the $$. He never said hey - i'm not feeling like you're hearing me, and I feel strongly enough about this that I will shut off the credit cards until you are willing to talk to me about this. He just went straight to cutting off her access to $$.
How'd that work for him?
* Parental alienation with his six year old * Verbal abuse, in front of his six year old * Things being tossed into a fire, presumably the 6 year old saw that happening. * Texts to both his parents and MIL involving them and now DOCUMENTING her belief that he's controlling her access to money, which, btw, legally in my state is considered spousal abuse.
Should FM's marriage end in divorce court, this is not going to help him.
Further action without discussion is not going to help him.
We're supposed to become better men and women through the DB process, someone whom our spouses would be a fool to leave. A key piece of that is learning how to communicate in a new and different way. Behaving like a domineering @$$ isn't going to get anyone anywhere.
If he or they keep the MC appointment and the worst case scenario happens (they end up in divorce court) at least FM will have ON RECORD that he saw a neutral third party and made the effort to communicate boundaries in a healthy way. I see no downside there for him.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Bttrfly, in an effort to not hijack FM's thread I'll just agree to disagree.
I don't view discussing FM's situation on his thread as a hijack of his thread. You and I will not agree on that or this boundary issue and we don't need to. FM needs to take all the input he gets, consider the various sources (because everyone should ALWAYS consider the source) and take action that he feels is most appropriate to him.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
I love the advice in these threads. Thank you all for the responses.
My biggest question of the most recent responses is around some of what Sandi2 said and what some in here are saying. When is the right time to have conversations with a wayward wife. I have been walking out of the room when she enters, not paying much attention and trying to be scarce. It feels cold to me. I feel like the Wayward advice is different than what I read in DB. It seems like WW advice is much stricter toward them. I could be misreading.
As for my GAL I just started this process last week. We set up a schedule which we didn’t have before and will be jumping in fully to GAL. I have been home every night over the last 3-4 months unless traveling for work to make sure I spend time with S6.
Sandi's rules for dealing with a WW is much more of a tough love approach than is straui up DBing. But remember that Sandi was a former WW. Her tactics were from knowing herself how she needed to be handled by her LBH during her wayward period. She saw both sides. At first her LBH was like most of us and rolled over for her in an effort to appease her. It wasn't until he toughened up, started appearing to not give a crap, and started commanding respect that she finally, slowly started to come around.
Keep reading her writings! There's gold in them. I had the privilege of having her directly guiding me in my threads, and her advice was phenomenal. Unfortunately she hasn't posted in quite a while, but luckily her writings are still with us.
WWs and WAWs need to be dealt with a little differently. That's one message that Sandi really tried to bring. So yes at times you might feel a little cold. As I said before, to me in cases like yours, that is better than being to far the other direction. Which is what most of us tend to lean towards especially early on.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
, and having had four teenagers, they need to test. They need to know and believe in your strength. That you have a spine and will do what you say. Not fold like a house of cards. To know, to believe, that you can be counted on.
