Would you say his book on MLC is worthwhile for the left behind spouse as well? The brief synopsis I found online seemed to indicate the book was geared toward the MLCer, almost like a how-to manual for getting through it.
Yes, about 60% of it is for the MLCer, but it's also helpful for the LBS to read to get a sense of what MLC is about. 40% is specifically for the LBS, including some useful responses for things that MLCers say and tips on how to maintain your sanity. I found his website helpful, too.
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I'm sure I could cement a drop-dead date in my head today, write it down, etc. Whether I'd firmly stick to it upon its arrival...I dunno. It wouldn't be binding. But to formulate a date, I'd be saying "this is how much time I'm giving for this unfulfilling, hollow, and unfaithful marriage to turn around or I'm making a move."
I completely sympathize the desire to set this date. It helps give a sense of control in a shitty situation. I sort of have one too, but more so to check in with myself. If yours wouldn't be binding and wouldn't be tied to any drastic action, I don't see the problem with setting one if it would provide some relief. (Sounds more like a "set it and forget it" kind of thing.)
I skimmed your previous thread, so I might have missed it (in which case, I'm sorry), but might some of your W's behavior might have something to do with her program? I imagine it must be tough to be a student and parent at the same time. My friends in grad school have neglected their relationships and done questionable things because of the stress. Perhaps your W will feel differently and be more dedicated to your M once she graduates. As others have already said, who knows what could happen between now and June.
I have read a few threads on the board recently, despite not posting much. I got sucked into Gordie's tale and his wife's crazy behavior. I am terrible at not heeding Mach1's advice to not extrapolate too much from other posters' situations onto one's own. One person had written in Gordie's thread that their spouse had been an MLC wallower for two years before running and running. So now I'm convinced that's what's in store for me.
I’ve been going through Gordie’s thread as well and I had the same reaction. I don’t know if I could wait it out as long as he did. I’m trying not to project that to my own situation, but it left me feeling like I needed to pull the plug. After a few days of anger and reflection, those thoughts subsided a bit, but left me feeling indifferent about my W. Not sure if that’s a good thing or not, but it’s something.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I try not to borrow tomorrow's trouble today, but I do wonder how to play it if W's mindset is to have sneaky fun on the side without blowing up the family (and filing herself). What if there's no movement on her part next summer but I'm tired of where the marriage is? Technically, neither of us can kick the other spouse out of the house. I feel like I need a sort of game plan to keep in the back of my head along with a potential drop-dead date. Does anyone think next summer is too soon for such a date? That would be about a year and a half hence the start of my situation. I also would want some sort of confirmation of the extent of W's waywardness, before fully nuking the kids' household.
My W seems to be in a very similar place to yours. Doing nothing to push the separation forward (She halfway filled out some paperwork and told me to complete it weeks ago and has said nothing since), we still live together although she sleeps downstairs now, and I’m worried that she won’t make any attempts to move things forward unless I do something to really upset her. I set a drop dead date of next June, which would be about a year from BD. But it does seem a bit weird to set a date without knowing how things will be at that point. If things are a little better, do you still file for D on that date? If they are the same, then what? What if things get way worse before that? What if I spend a bunch of time thinking about it and W files next week? Waiting forever doesn’t make sense, but making decisions 6 months ahead of time doesn’t really seem to either. Hell, six months ago I barely had a clue there was a problem! I guess it’s about just being prepared for the worst while taking the rest day by day.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Some also favor the alpha male tactic to "win back" respect.
.I’ve thought a lot about the alpha male tactic because I’m pretty beta in many areas of my life, such as making decisions, planning things, reaching out to people, being social and addressing conflict. I know I can’t change my personality into the stereotypical alpha male, so my focus has been more to address my passive behaviors and try and change those things for myself. I think the term alpha is interpreted differently by each person here, but for me I’ve just tried to define it as sticking up for myself and being less of a yes man. Having conviction in what I say and do if I know it’s the right thing. Being more of a decision maker and taking the lead with things. It’s a work in progress, but that’s where I’ve focused my efforts.
Also, DnJ, I appreciate the input you provided here. I had intended to post something similar as Doug the other day on my thread, but you and the other people who replied here, pretty much addressed all of the things I was thinking about. Most of the questions stemmed from reading Gordie’s thread, which had me feeling a little down.
I know I can’t change my personality into the stereotypical alpha male, so my focus has been more to address my passive behaviors and try and change those things for myself.
I think the stereotypical definition is way off base and most people misunderstand what is to be an "alpha male". I am going to give you the best definition I have come across and you tell me whether you think it is a goal you can work towards.
A true alpha’s state of mind is one of indifference, charm, humor, humility, courage and a belief that eventually, things will work out in their favor. Alphas set, keep and hold other people accountable to their boundaries. They stand up for what they believe in and don’t compromise their principles or values for ANYONE. They have an emotionally compelling vision of what kind of life and lifestyle they want to create and then resolve to pay the price, no matter how long it takes to make it a reality.”
Originally Posted by DW17
Most of the questions stemmed from reading Gordie’s thread, which had me feeling a little down.
LH19 - I like that definition. That fits what I'm striving for much better than the definition I believe most people associate with being an alpha male. And I haven't finished Gordie's thread, I'm only on #20, but just the amount of garbage he dealt with and the length of time just reinforced the "marathon, not a sprint" phrase that is said so often here. There's no quick fix and it's a little bit of a downer seeing that. It made me question whether I can wait it out that long if need be.
Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread Doug54. Keep pushing ahead man!
I wonder about the seeming contrast between "a MLC has to run its course- there's nothing you can do to alter it" vs the tough-love approach advocated by Sandi and a few others.
If you were going to institute a tough love approach what would it look like?
Originally Posted by Doug54
I definitely don't have the stomach for a years' long dead-ish marriage.
Doug this is absolutely a multiple year process.
Originally Posted by Doug54
That's another reason I don't try to play defense when W initiates nookie.
What are the other reasons?
Originally Posted by Doug54
Any thoughts on my situation are welcome as always.
Sorry I was late on my response I was on vacation.
LH19 - I like that definition. That fits what I'm striving for much better than the definition I believe most people associate with being an alpha male. And I haven't finished Gordie's thread, I'm only on #20, but just the amount of garbage he dealt with and the length of time just reinforced the "marathon, not a sprint" phrase that is said so often here. There's no quick fix and it's a little bit of a downer seeing that. It made me question whether I can wait it out that long if need be. !
DW I’m glad you like that version of the definition of alpha male. I think you should print it out and read it daily and use it as a guide moving forward.
As far as when we say marathon and not sprint I do not think that people truly understand how long this takes to play itself out.
I think the stereotypical definition is way off base and most people misunderstand what is to be an "alpha male". I am going to give you the best definition I have come across and you tell me whether you think it is a goal you can work towards.
A true alpha’s state of mind is one of indifference, charm, humor, humility, courage and a belief that eventually, things will work out in their favor. Alphas set, keep and hold other people accountable to their boundaries. They stand up for what they believe in and don’t compromise their principles or values for ANYONE. They have an emotionally compelling vision of what kind of life and lifestyle they want to create and then resolve to pay the price, no matter how long it takes to make it a reality.”
That's a good definition that goes beyond the simple, meathead image I would typically connect with "alpha."
If you were going to institute a tough love approach what would it look like?
I'm honestly not sure. Like you've said in the past, there's a large incentive to keep the peace when two people live together, with family, etc. Also like you've said, this is going to work itself out one way or another.
Originally Posted by LH19
Doug this is absolutely a multiple year process.
Lovely. Did I mention that W is getting the boob job in 2 weeks? Perhaps I'll find that my W is indeed a slow, methodical creature like yours was. I would be shocked and disgusted if she wound up leaving straight for another man. If she couldn't resist wanting out due to the MLC, craving independence and wanting to stand on her own, I guess I could at least sort of understand a tad.
Originally Posted by LH19
What are the other reasons?
I mean, we're not divorced yet and I'm not getting anything on the side (which would be blatantly stupid for a guy posting on an anti-divorce forum). If W wants to initiate, it just proves that I'm not a monster, right?
I think the stereotypical definition is way off base and most people misunderstand what is to be an "alpha male". I am going to give you the best definition I have come across and you tell me whether you think it is a goal you can work towards.
A true alpha’s state of mind is one of indifference, charm, humor, humility, courage and a belief that eventually, things will work out in their favor. Alphas set, keep and hold other people accountable to their boundaries. They stand up for what they believe in and don’t compromise their principles or values for ANYONE. They have an emotionally compelling vision of what kind of life and lifestyle they want to create and then resolve to pay the price, no matter how long it takes to make it a reality.”
That's a good definition that goes beyond the simple, meathead image I would typically connect with "alpha."
So are you setting and holding W accountable to your boundaries? Are you compromising your principles or values to her? These are questions to ponder.
If you were going to institute a tough love approach what would it look like?
I'm honestly not sure. Like you've said in the past, there's a large incentive to keep the peace when two people live together, with family, etc. Also like you've said, this is going to work itself out one way or another.
Originally Posted by LH19
Doug this is absolutely a multiple year process.
Lovely. Did I mention that W is getting the boob job in 2 weeks? Perhaps I'll find that my W is indeed a slow, methodical creature like yours was. I would be shocked and disgusted if she wound up leaving straight for another man. If she couldn't resist wanting out due to the MLC, craving independence and wanting to stand on her own, I guess I could at least sort of understand a tad.
Originally Posted by LH19
What are the other reasons?
I mean, we're not divorced yet and I'm not getting anything on the side (which would be blatantly stupid for a guy posting on an anti-divorce forum). If W wants to initiate, it just proves that I'm not a monster, right?
When I said there is a large incentive to keep the peace I meant that’s what got you here. You and her glossed over things in your relationship while the resentment built. For a relationship to be successful you have to have it out every once in awhile and address the issues. Than decide if you can fix these issues. If you can’t come to an agreement you have to be willing to walk. Yes she will either commit back to the marriage, things will remain the same or you will divorce.
Yep and she ain’t getting the girls done for you. Sorry to say but deep down I think you know it. Does your w seem like the independent type?
Yeah I’m cool with you getting your freak on as long as you know it’s not helping matters. I did it because I knew I was getting a D.
Doug you are young have young kids so no shame in riding it out. Unfortunately things will have to get worse before they get better that is the $ucky part of this process.
