BL42, you're right. I struggle with trying to make sure I say the "right" thing. I don't like making mistakes and I feel I've made several recently. Yesterday I told myself to pause and think about what, if anything, I say in response to W. So I spend 4 hours debating the 20 total words I sent her today. Funny to think about it that way.
And this morning she was stringing me along by telling D4 how handsome I looked and asking her if I should be a model lol. I didn't say anything, but it's nice knowing that she'll be missing out on a much improved person inside and out.
I decided on responding with a simple "I would prefer to handle this between us if possible."
W responded "Okay, just making sure."
I like your response as well.
I also like the fact that you came to us BEFORE you responded.
Obviously you will have disagreements. One option to help resolve them is to mutually agree on a mediator before you attempt any negotiations with her. You can lead her through this as well.
My lawyers used this pattern:
One party identifies 3 mediators that they find acceptable and supplies the names and contacts to the other party. The other party reviews and picks one. If they do not like any of them, they find 3 different ones and the first party picks one, or redemands a few other alternatives.
I love this:
Originally Posted by mach1
This is a huge step in my life, and isn't something that I am prepared to rush through.
After I have had time to process, I will respond with my decision.
keep it in you back pocket.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
In my locale without legal representation - unless the divorce is really cut and dried, like 50/50, both make the same money, etc - the courts won’t accept it and will send it back looking for more information. Both sides need to have their own lawyer to petition their divorce to the court.
Are you sure about this? Or perhaps I should ask, do you live in the United States? I don't think the US Constitution would allow for someone to be forced to obtain legal council. I mean, that's pretty much like saying, if you don't pay to hire a legal professional you cannot get divorced. How could that be? Again, maybe you don't live in the USA and then I could more understand it.
As for it being "foolhardy" to D without an attorney - again it really depends. These boards are ripe with stories where all paying 5 figures to the attorney did is lower the amount of any settlement. They often end up with the same deal they would have received with a lawyer. But, again, it really depends. If there are children, large assets or non-typical assets like a business or worse yet a business partnership. You may need and benefit from representation. It also depends on how good of a negotiator you are. How good of a business person you are. My ExW filed on her own and I represented myself on my own. I am very happy with the outcome and I think I was fair to her.
I always suggest at least trying to do this on your own - again unless there are custody battles, etc.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
I live in Canada. In my province, from what my L told me, without both sides having representation whatever agreement reached would likely require follow up and/or appearance before the judge. It is technically doable sans lawyers, although quite a minefield.
My agreement for example would never have been signed off by the judge without our lawyers and her L’s extra paperwork/waiver ensuring W knew what she was doing and was in his opinion capable of legal decision making.
Just my info from my locale.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
It’s not much different in my and many states in the USA. Of course laws vary by state and even by county within a state. My ex and I both still had to show up in court. We still had to appear in front of a judge. In fact he put us both on the stand and took testimony from each of us asking some of those questions that you note. He specifically asked if we each understand we are waiving spousal support that we might be entitled to, etc. but it was very much doable and we both saved thousands of dollars and both were happy with the outcome - at least I was.
Of course an attorney is going to tell you that you are better off hiring them. Duh, they want the work. They all say that. They all say they can get you a better result. I’ve used an attorney like a half dozen times - mostly for business. Every single time they appeared all confident they would achieve the result I was after. Without fail I got nothing more than I would have without them. I’m not saying never to get an attorney but most times it’s not worth the $$$. Again, I’m pretty savvy about all of this and have been told so by many attorneys so it does depend on who you are. But with nearly any dispute, getting the parties to agree will put everyone farther ahead. I’ve yet to get the result the attorney all but promised I would get.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Like Don, I live in the USA. In our first settlement, my XW and I used Nolo Press books, standard boilerplate documents, and I consulted a few times with an attorney. I got primary custody and pay no child support or alimony. I understand that's good for a dad. The court didn't bat an eye. They just required us to sign a waiver indicating we knew support guidelines.
It helps that I'm in business and good at negotiating. It helps also that, whatever else was broken in our marriage, my XW still trusts me to act with integrity.
It is normal to respond through fear. That’s what you’ve been doing probably for many years in your relationship, so it’s normal that you are doing that now.
I empathise as well, because I was in the exact same situation. I’d become accustomed to being beaten into submission, when I had to respond or make a choice I was paralysed with fear.
Every time you get an email, a text, or need to respond to her - notice how your body feels. Instant butterflies in the stomach, increased heart rate, increased respiration, and inability to think about anything else.
These aren’t healthy responses. They’re driven by the amygdala, the reptilian, primal part of your brain that controls flight or fight.
Part of DBing is looking at how how you’ve acted in the past (being weak, scared, and responding through fear) and realising that it’s led you to divorce, so it’s probably not something to keep doing. Try something different, because what you’ve been trying for the last few years hasn’t worked. Have you ever seen the Seinfeld episode called “The Opposite”?
It’s a tough pattern to break. You’re actually doing DB incredibly well for a newbie. But this is something you need to work on.
One thing my brother said which really helped me with this was “Remember, most likely no matter how you respond, she’ll be pissed off. You’re worrying so much about it, but in reality a WW who desperately wants out - you can’t predict how they will react anyway.”
He was dead right.
You spent four hours thinking about what to say…. In five years, do you think your life will be greatly different if you’d responded by saying A, B or C?
If she asked me if I’m getting a lawyer, I’d have said “I haven’t even had time to read it yet. I’m going out for beers tonight!”
As for whether you’re lying or not lying if you don’t tell her - not your problem. I get that you want to be honourable, but she’s a lying cheat who is most likely banging another man behind your back. You owe her nothing, and in fact you owe it to your children to get the best deal possible for their Dad.
Remember, at this point your “marriage” is a business deal gone bad and you’re trying to minimise your $$$ losses. Nothing more, nothing less.
Part of DBing is looking at how how you’ve acted in the past (being weak, scared, and responding through fear) and realising that it’s led you to divorce, so it’s probably not something to keep doing. Try something different, because what you’ve been trying for the last few years hasn’t worked.
Well said.
Originally Posted by Kind18
If she asked me if I’m getting a lawyer, I’d have said “I haven’t even had time to read it yet. I’m going out for beers tonight!”
This is a great response. It is the attitude that you should be embracing.....
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Today I finally looked over the paperwork. A lot of things are not complete. No financial info, no description of who gets what, she didn’t fill out her portion of the child support worksheet, she checked that she needs spousal support, but did not select whether the court will decide or the dollar amount she is requesting, the parenting plan does not work for me, and several minor mistakes. She hasn’t said it, but I think her plan is for us to sit down and work through it together. I told her I’d respond in 1-2 weeks. I have a few people I’d like to get advice from and I have to speak with the L still, but it seems like she is attempting to get me to do the leg work with this, which I’ve been told not to do. She spent a total of about an hour on it. I spent more time than that today looking into things. I’ve got some time to decide how I want to respond to her, but I wasn’t served these papers, and they aren’t complete. Should I just give her the applicable financial information and let her complete it? Should I just accept the situation and get on with it? She wants a divorce, I don’t as of yet, but I don’t get to control that.
Originally Posted by R2C
One option to help resolve them is to mutually agree on a mediator before you attempt any negotiations with her. You can lead her through this as well.
This is what I would like to do. I believe W just wants to talk things out, and I think most things will work that way, but I’d prefer a mediator for the custody issues. I don’t want to get into an argument about it and I’d rather a third party be there for this.
Originally Posted by Kind18
Every time you get an email, a text, or need to respond to her - notice how your body feels. Instant butterflies in the stomach, increased heart rate, increased respiration, and inability to think about anything else.
Yup, you’re spot on here. I think this is why I struggle the few times we do get in conversations about important things. I end up saying things I don’t want to say, or saying things I don’t remember. W doesn’t forget anything.
Originally Posted by Kind18
Remember, most likely no matter how you respond, she’ll be pissed off. You’re worrying so much about it, but in reality a WW who desperately wants out - you can’t predict how they will react anyway.
I’ll try to keep this mindset. If I have to respond, do it with confidence at least, even if my response is not perfect.
I’ve got a 3 day weekend. I’ve got a few things lined up. I’ll try and keep busy and focus on being positive and confident. I can only control what I can control and I’ll be fine no matter the result.
