Action 2

[BL42]

When does she come back? And how are you feeling about it?

[Rockon]

She returns a week from today. I am moving through anxiety and a lot of emotions. I am journalling right now while I’m on a boat. My therapist suggested I journal ahead of our appointment this week admitting acknowledging and feeling the emotions.

Pain, cast aside, disrespected, vulnerable, angry.

As I write, Type, and say the words out loud there is a peace and I recognize strength and resolve

[Ready2Change]

I’m open to input and ideas and feedback

Hi Rockon,

Have you finished reading DR? If so, have you read it more than once?

How do you talk to your kids about the sitch?

Answering questions is OK, especially with your kids being young adults. Try not letting the convo go on for too long.

My kids are 20-23...age appropriate answers to their questions. You can always error on giving answers for a younger person. My kids were 6-9 when I divorced There are books on the subject.

"It ran it's course" is a great answer for most questions from most people.
"That's between your mother and I"
"Marriage is hard work. Sometimes people ..." (can't resolve their differences) or

I would avoid the blame game. Making I statements is good. such as "I believe.." or "I want your mother to be happy"

The truth will set you free, just be careful on the wording.

Ok so let’s fast forward to her return. She has moved her stuff to her mom’s where she is staying. If she stops in unannounced, I plan to say I gotta go.

If she is having sex with another man, I would choose different words.

It is extremely disrespectful for her to come over unannounced. Command (not demand, there is a difference) respect.

She moved out (and has OM) and does not live there any longer. Natural consequences. If she wants to see D, then explain to daughter that it is better for her to go see her mother.

[DnJ]

Hello Rock

How do you talk to your kids about the sitch?

My kids were embroiled into my situation right from bomb drop. D15, S17, S19, S21 (ages at BD) were at the table when Mom pulled the pin and toss the grenade into the middle of Thanksgiving Supper.

A few days later, W dropped by in the morning to discuss “her” speedy divorce plans. It was then, at 9:30 am, that she let me and my son know that she consummated her affair and we could get divorced. In my locale, there is a one year cooldown period, unless there is physical abuse, emotional abuse, or adultery.

Adultery is difficult to prove and win in litigation, and therefore that charge seldom is ever brought forth or convicted upon. However, W wanted it, and demanded she be charged. In fact, she included that demand in her draft of the separation agreement, stating the legal statute, and wanted to plead guilty. She did not want the one year cooldown period. Turns out she had no plans to marry OM, and still hasn’t. She actually has stated to the kids’ questioning of her regarding that - “Are you crazy? I’m not going to marry him.” That was right in front of OM.

We were legally separated in 60 days from BD. And W had 30 days of light duties during this time from her vein stripping surgery, so no lawyer visits during that time. The agreement was revised only once. During the revision, I had my lawyer remove the adultery stipulation and W didn’t catch it. I didn’t want to go to court and charge her. Boy oh boy, was she mad when she found out it was removed.

Anyhow, as you can see, my kids were front row. And in truth, they got the brunt of Mom’s anger. She saw her fifteen year old daughter as a rival. She unloaded such ferocity at S17. See tossed them aside with her Thanksgiving speech: “DnJ, you get the house, the cars, and the kids. Unless you don’t want them, then I guess I’ll have to take them.” Aghast doesn’t quite do it justice; what all eight of us felt. Me, my parents, and kids were all dumbfounded.

I talked to my kids lots! I answered any and all their questions. They have questions, and they will get answers. If not from you, they from who or where? Or they will just make up an answer. Out of the options, you are the best one. So be their best option. Always.

I was factual. And did not demonized their Mom.

Remember, kids are half of each parent. They already question their half of the genes and if they are somehow destined for a similar path. My kids did. Remind them, they are half of you too. And they have choice.

Our job is not to facilitate the relationship between the other parent and kid(s); our job is to not destroy it.

Your query asks “how” and not what to tell your kids. I find that wise.

Speak to them clearly, openly, sincerely, and above all - honestly.

If you cannot speak about something that day. Tell them. Look, I am sorry, I just cannot talk about that right now. Let’s speak tomorrow. (And ensure you do!)

I found gentle steering worked well. My kids were pretty much adults. Telling them what to do stopped working years ago. I gently steered towards understanding, forgiveness, etc.

Kids want to, and will, emulate and follow a good lead. (After the obligatory rebellious stage. )

My case was rather extreme with their Mom leading a path that none of them would ever want their partner/spouse doing to them. There were so many conversation over the years. You got to keep your ego out of it, and stick to the facts.

Lots of empathy towards the kids’ feelings too. That’s a difficult thing when you are run through the wringer yourself. Letting them lead the conversation will bring up the pertinent items which need to be discussed. There really is not much prompting once things get rolling along.

Ha, I was just remembering having the sex and birth control talk with my daughter. LOL. I had her sit on the opposite end of the couch. I said, “this is embarrassing. You look that way (away from me) and I’ll look this way (away from her)”. I then made the show of taking a deep breath and purposely blurted out “I want to talk about dating and boinking and birth control.”

We both laughed. It was a perfect ice breaker. We had several good conversations. I authorized the underage prescription for the pill. Daughter was unlikely to bring that request up to me, and we certainly didn’t need any unplanned pregnancy.

Such is this situation you are in. Embarrassing, hurtful, grief-ridden, etc. And uplifting, hopeful, forgiving, better not bitter, compassion, and such. Believe me, you have an incredible influence upon your children. Utilize it well, and steer gently.

The biggest thing is talking about it. Anything buried alive will come back to haunt later in life.

Well, a little more than I set out to type. Hope it helps.

D

[Rockon]

I’m open to input and ideas and feedback

Hi Rockon,

Have you finished reading DR? If so, have you read it more than once?

Yes I’ve read it and reading again.

How do you talk to your kids about the sitch?

Answering questions is OK, especially with your kids being young adults. Try not letting the convo go on for too long.

Ok I will keep following that

"It ran it's course" is a great answer for most questions from most people.
"That's between your mother and I"
"Marriage is hard work. Sometimes people ..." (can't resolve their differences) or

I would avoid the blame game. Making I statements is good. such as "I believe.." or "I want your mother to be happy"

The truth will set you free, just be careful on the wording.

Yes

Ok so let’s fast forward to her return. She has moved her stuff to her mom’s where she is staying. If she stops in unannounced, I plan to say I gotta go.

If she is having sex with another man, I would choose different words.

It is extremely disrespectful for her to come over unannounced. Command (not demand, there is a difference) respect.

She moved out (and has OM) and does not live there any longer. Natural consequences. If she wants to see D, then explain to daughter that it is better for her to go see her mother.

Will give all this more thought.

[Rockon]

Oh D thank you so much for sharing and describing so well this grace and wisdom. What a journey of being there for your kids.

[Rockon]

I am struggling with the concepts of DB, LRT, Having firm boundaries with consequences and wanting to save the marriage still.

So let’s imagine that I follow through with logical fitting consequences for my own well being following W’s trip. A need that I have is to be respected. For me to be in a marriage relationship, I have a firm boundary that I don’t have a relationship with my W if she commits adultery and is not repentant. What do I say if she reaches out to me and wants to talk?

It seems it’s time for me to do a 180 by not trying to “nice” her back. And that is important for my recovery and self respect. A consequence could be that W doesn’t experience me as “nice” but rather strong and principled. That would be consistent with my core values and not meant to be punishment ti hurt her.

And then I move on and further detach. As I write this, I recognize I am still very much processing so much deep hurt. And so I am trying to see more clearly but it’s hard.

[Rockon]

What if anything do I say preemptively to her. I am glad I decided not to send the ultimatum message to her (thanks mates), but something I have been considering is defining a timeline either for me or with W of working on reconciling or not.

I have read that you can be wise to define a timeline for a trial separation of 3 to 6 months and to come up with agreements for the trial separation. What has been happening in our R though is nothing like that. W pulled all the strings and moved the yardsticks and changed the terms randomly and I’ve been working to take my power back. I’ve got a ways to go on that.

[LH19]

What if anything do I say preemptively to her. I am glad I decided not to send the ultimatum message to her (thanks mates), but something I have been considering is defining a timeline either for me or with W of working on reconciling or not.

Unless it's a strong statement best to say nothing.

I have read that you can be wise to define a timeline for a trial separation of 3 to 6 months and to come up with agreements for the trial separation.

You read wrong. WWs do not follow any agreements so a waste of time.

What has been happening in our R though is nothing like that. W pulled all the strings and moved the yardsticks and changed the terms randomly and I’ve been working to take my power back. I’ve got a ways to go on that.

The person who cares least calls all the shots in the relationship.

I am struggling with the concepts of DB, LRT, Having firm boundaries with consequences and wanting to save the marriage still.

What are you struggling with?

So let’s imagine that I follow through with logical fitting consequences for my own well being following W’s trip. A need that I have is to be respected. For me to be in a marriage relationship, I have a firm boundary that I don’t have a relationship with my W if she commits adultery and is not repentant. What do I say if she reaches out to me and wants to talk?

Well what is her consequence and it better be a big one?

It seems it’s time for me to do a 180 by not trying to “nice” her back.

You can't nice a WW back. Never has worked and NEVER will.

And that is important for my recovery and self respect. A consequence could be that W doesn’t experience me as “nice” but rather strong and principled. That would be consistent with my core values and not meant to be punishment ti hurt her.

So you are saying you are going to be a dick? Do you think that will work?

And then I move on and further detach.

You can't just detach. It doesn't work that way.

As I write this, I recognize I am still very much processing so much deep hurt. And so I am trying to see more clearly but it’s hard.

It's the desperation that you spoke about earlier. You are trying hold on to something that is already gone and is an awful feeling. You are going to have to find a way through it.

[Rockon]

I don’t know how to do this.