My thoughts are to take things slow and somewhat methodical and for me to stay in my power and stand by my convictions. And not be overly enthusiastic or committal with W’s solutions but also not try and solve her problems.
LH: sometimes I have a pretty thick skull comes in handy at times I play hockey but also a handicap it can take me awhile to understand and catch on to new concepts and behaviours.
Can you unpack this a bit more and help me to get it:
“ Your best chance for reconciliation is to go as far as you can in the opposite direction. The longer that takes the more time it gives her to solidify her position with other male.
You want her to be unsure where she stands with you.”
Your comments regarding telling kids - I think your response there was fair enough.
As for staying in same hotel, her moving back in, MC - I wouldn’t be engaging in those discussions yet.
It could very well be that she has seen you start to disconnect and she needs her fix of knowing she has a backup plan when she is away. If you say “sure, you can move in and we’ll do MC” - she knows she has you, and so she can go away on her trip knowing her backup plan is rock solid.
I’d engage about telling your youngest, but nothing else. Remain non-commital and disinterested. IMHO she needs to show tangible, obvious shift for you to even consider MC. As you know, LH19 often says the MC suggestion seems to be a good thing - but is often part of their guilt free escape plan.
You know what’s infinitely better than working on discussions with kids, and staying at a hotel, and her moving back in, and you two going to marriage counselling….
Her cancelling her sex trip with AP.
I’m sorry to bust your bubble. But I’d be very, VERY careful. These things take 2-5 years to genuinely turn around, so this doesn’t seem legit to me.
Move very, VERY slowly and cautiously. Be indifferent. Disinterested.
People who have the desire to save their marriage don't then go on a trip to visit their affair partner.
People who truly want to move back in don't tell their children they're separating.
Originally Posted by Kind18
You know what’s infinitely better than working on discussions with kids, and staying at a hotel, and her moving back in, and you two going to marriage counselling…
Her cancelling her sex trip with AP.
^Exactly. She may say she's thinking about moving back in and MC, but what does she do?
Originally Posted by Rockon
Can you unpack this a bit more and help me to get it:
Originally Posted by LH19
Your best chance for reconciliation is to go as far as you can in the opposite direction. The longer that takes the more time it gives her to solidify her position with other male.
You want her to be unsure where she stands with you.
It means if she's walking West, you start running East with a smile on your face.
It means if you two are walking down the street and she takes an unexpected right, instead of feebly following behind her or hanging back at the intersection waiting for her to circle back, you turn left all on your own and happily stroll along enjoying the live music, food, drink, and company down that street.
It means if she's going on a trip to meet up with AP, instead of reassuring her you're on board with MC and you still want her to move back in when she gets back, you respond with a "Hmmm...I'm not so sure about that anymore". Or, if you really have the stones...remember what Kind18 recommended about giving her your L's card as she's leaving at the airport??? Not saying that's the precise play, but your attitude should be a lot closer to that than the scared weak man back home hoping she'll change her mind.
Making it easy for her to go off and do whatever she wants with the comfort and safety net of knowing she'll face no repercussions about coming home to you if she changes her mind will NOT help your cause.
Last edited by BL42; 10/05/2203:49 AM.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
Kind:” You know what’s infinitely better than working on discussions with kids, and staying at a hotel, and her moving back in, and you two going to marriage counselling….
Her cancelling her sex trip with AP”
Do you think I should say this to her? I have been thinking I have said everything I need to say and been clear where I stand. It’s my actions that need to speak louder than words. But I haven’t said that exactly!
Do you think I should say this to her? I have been thinking I have said everything I need to say and been clear where I stand. It’s my actions that need to speak louder than words. But I haven’t said that exactly!
Thanks
1. Nope! Remember what we said… NO TALKS! Here’s how it will play out. “You should cancel sex trip.” “Who said it’s a sex trip, that’s a lie. You’re bullying me. This is why I have to leave you.” End result - same as you’ve tried over and over again. You walk away feeling like [censored], she has validated she is doing the right thing because you’re a monster. She now feels free to bang AP.
How many more times do you want to play the same game? Holding her accountable doesn’t work. Isn’t it time you tried something different? If every instinct you’ve had to hold onto her and convince her has backfired in your face and been wrong, then the opposite (not giving a sh*t and walking away) should be your new normal.
2. Your actions do speak louder than words. Exactly fn right. About time you started responding with actions.
“Have you thought about what I said about getting MC when I get back?”
“I’m not interested in counselling with someone who is going away with their affair partner.”
And before she can say one word to respond:
“I’m going for a run. Cya!”
And leave. No ifs, buts, maybes. If you don’t leave immediately you’ll both slip into the same old pattern.
Can you unpack this a bit more and help me to get it:
“ Your best chance for reconciliation is to go as far as you can in the opposite direction. The longer that takes the more time it gives her to solidify her position with other male.
You want her to be unsure where she stands with you.”
How? When? What?
You are genetically wired to protect your wife and kids. When she's in distress, your first instinct is going to be to try to make things better. When you feel that you're making an effort to relieve her distress, it brings you a feeling of relief.
When you don't respond to her distress, it’s going to make you feel uncomfortable. You're going to get a cortisol dump and it’s going to be very tempting to act to make that bad feeling stop.
You'll tell yourself stories that you're being a bad person, or that you're "pushing her away" to justify trying to relieve your discomfort. "Making things worse" means that you grin and bear it.
You basically need to withdraw support -- emotional support and financial support to the degree possible. If she makes a mess, she needs to clean it up. You do not step in and enable her in any way.
If she gets mad at you, you shrug it off, you don't engage.
If she cries in front of you, you let her cry and you make NO effort to comfort her.
You go out and "get a life" and you don't feel any responsibility to explain or justify what you're doing, you just do it.
Very important: You are not mean, punishing, or passive aggressive. You don't make nasty comments. You don't go out of your way to inconvenience her, you simply act as if you are completely uninterested and unaffected by her.
If she wants to make love to OM in your front yard, you walk past, smile and wave. It just doesn't impact you emotionally.
When she senses that she's losing control over you, she will fight back. She will try to manipulate you to stay invested in her. The more you resist, the harder she will try. She'll scream and yell, she'll accuse, she'll break down and cry, she'll blame. The minute you engage, you lose. This will be uncomfortable, it will feel worse than giving in to her and engaging. That's what making things worse means.
Often people mistake this fighting on the part of the WAW as interest -- that they want you back and that's why they're engaging you. Don't be fooled -- you being emotionally invested in her is an insurance policy and NOTHING else. If things go horribly wrong with her affair partner and outside interests, she can always come back to her comfortable marriage.
It’s a huge comfort to know that she has you to fall back on if things go badly for her. You've already proven that you'll save her, like when you helped her find a therapist. You need to pull that safety net away entirely.
She needs to fully believe that you will not be there for her if she chooses to return after her sex trip, and that if she wants to come back she's going to have to work for it.
You can't tell her that, she'll never believe it. You have to show her that beyond a doubt with your ACTIONS.
Ever run into a crazy person on the sidewalk who points at you and yells at you? You do what you can to minimize the interaction but after that you move on. It doesn't ruin your day, it certainly doesn't hurt your self-esteem or make you feel worse about who you are.
You need to regard her with exactly the same level of detachment and disinterest. Whatever she does, your toes are still tapping.
At the same time, you have to build a life for yourself that anyone would want to be a part of, full of fun activities, outside interests, and engaging friends. If you can do both of those things -- completely emotionally uncouple from her (fake it until you make it) and build an amazing life for yourself, she'll clamor to come back and if she doesn't you won't care. That's your only winning path out of where you are, but getting there is going to be uncomfortable, and more painful than you feel today, because it will go against your white knight nature. Rockon, I'm very sorry you're here. Everything she told you about your faults was nonsense to justify her affair. When you then respond to her complaints you validate them, so she feels even more entitled to have her affair.
You've been trying to "nice your way back" for awhile.
It's not working, it will never work.
You cannot placate her, you cannot "prove your love" through acts of giving and support.
You also cannot push her away by withdrawing support.
She has chosen her course of action, and as of right now, nothing you do will impact it.
Your shortest path back together is to go the opposite direction.
You need to make things worse before they can get better
Are you willing to do that?
If not, you can expect many more years of the same thing you have now. I had conversations with the MC I went to. She said that people come to MC for a variety of reasons:
1) Trying to give the appearance that they "tried" when in fact they had already given up. This is public face-saving 2) Trying to help the other person come to terms with the fact that they have decided to leave 3) Trying to get a third party to validate that they are right and the other person is wrong 4) Trying to save their marriage by being willing to work on it.
They said that 95% of the time, one person is coming for reasons 1-3, and the other person is coming for reason 4. When only one person is in, MC has a 0% success rate.
She said that people usually come in about three years too late, when one party is already fully checked out.
It sounds like you're fully in this scenario where you're in group 4 and W is in some combination of groups 1-3. In that scenario, you have almost no chance of success with MC.
I would strongly recommend individual IC and telephone DB coaching as being a much more effective course of action for you.
In this situation that one person is already done there is probably a zero percent success rate for any MC. In addition, I believe that they make the situation worse because they encourage the "standing spouse" to divulge all their thoughts and feelings which comes across as pursuing behavior.
When one person wants out and one person wants to keep things together, overt pursuit is the enemy.
LH: this is really good and strong and I believe it. It feels so uncomfortable for sure! My kids are actually doing a good job of this with W.
S23 does not have respect for what W is doing and has disengaged after he told her. Same with D20. She has spoken up courageously and then disengaged. Same with D25.
You are right: action, lifestyle, integrity for me. Talk is cheap. I am engaged in IC and intensive treatment for PTSD. And I am committed to this path. My understanding and buy in of what, how and why are coming.
