I caved.. My calculus was that for me to be rigidly inflexible on something W was asking of me would be more of the same - not a 180.
"Caving" is not attractive. Hopefully, you were able to listen, validate, and be firm without arguing or guilting. Not many LBS are able to do that when pressed in an MC session.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I had to bite my tongue there. I don't know - as Mach1 said, those are her truths and I have my own truths about the relationship.
Impressive control.
Originally Posted by Doug54
The topic turned to what form separation might take. I reiterated in a matter-of-fact, grounded way that I was opposed to moving out of my own house for something I didn't want. W acknowledged that she didn't have the money to get her own place right now and that she was adamantly against uprooting the kids.
Great job!
Originally Posted by Doug54
W said to me in the car on the way home, "I think we're just going to have to stay put for a while." That statement went pretty counter to most of her remarks to the counselor, like she wanted out of the marriage and living arrangement *yesterday*.
Yes! The arguments and manipulation typically come when they believe it's something you'll cave on--like attending the MC session. When you're firm there's no point.
Originally Posted by Doug54
"I'm conflicted and you're basically like 'Peace out!'" Nothing out of her mouth in the counseling session suggested she was "conflicted" about leaving, but whatever.
Yes! Good job not reading too much into this. You showed strength which is attractive and shot down her fantasy plans of moving out or nesting. WAS are not robots, and she probably is slightly more conflicted now. How did you reply? Hopefully, you didn't reassure her.
Originally Posted by Doug54
So, that's the state of play. I'm sorry to say that detachment has kind of stagnated for the time being, so that's something I need to work on. I don't know- I feel good. The sun is shining, I'm healthy, my kids are healthy, I'm going to hit the gym today and try to get some reading in this evening, it's still summer... carpe diem, right (Latin for "seize the day" - any Dead Poet's Society fans?).
Robin Williams, R.I.P. That's a wonderful attitude and plan--the gym and reading.
Again, Doug54, you're ahead of the typical LBS curve.
Her mood at home the rest of the night was pretty good. I was in a nice, carefree mood myself. We shared a moment of flirtatious talk before I had to leave for something and she said, "I'm conflicted and you're basically like 'Peace out!'" Nothing out of her mouth in the counseling session suggested she was "conflicted" about leaving, but whatever.
Most in crisis will try and talk them self into their arrangement. They will try to convince them self that "their" truth is THE truth....
Kinda like......we tend to work toward our goals.....
I'd prolly just say....'Those aren't my words' and leave it at that......
Traveler nailed it. Caving is not a strong move. Therefore not attractive. Weak moves do not command respect. Always pick commanding respect over being nice.
Also do not use DBing as an excuse to break DBing. DBing says that MC is not something you should do. Even IF that is a 180 for you. 180s do not override other DBing principles.
As far as the rest of the exchange that resulted, obviously my stance is that they should never have happened. She is using MC to try to get you to cave (and this is why caving is a bad idea because if you cave on MC then just maybe you'll cave on nesting or some other thing). So it is hard to for me to give props.
What I will say is that she is trying to manipulate you. "Go to MC!" So she can try to get you to cave on her other plans. "I am conflicted." If you continue to play ball with what I want it might save the marriage. (HINT: It won't.) "It looks like we have to stay put for now." If I act like I am resigned to the way things are then maybe Doug will give me more of what I want.
Believe NOTHING she says. That literally means NOTHING.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I was in a nice, carefree mood myself. We shared a moment of flirtatious talk before I had to leave for something and she said, "I'm conflicted and you're basically like 'Peace out!'"
Originally Posted by LH19
WW BS. Hope you didn't respond.
Originally Posted by Traveler
Yes! Good job not reading too much into this. You showed strength which is attractive and shot down her fantasy plans of moving out or nesting. WAS are not robots, and she probably is slightly more conflicted now. How did you reply? Hopefully, you didn't reassure her.
Originally Posted by Mach1
Most in crisis will try and talk them self into their arrangement. They will try to convince them self that "their" truth is THE truth....
Kinda like......we tend to work toward our goals.....
I'd prolly just say....'Those aren't my words' and leave it at that......
Let your actions speak for now....
Go back to the space shuttle analogy....
She is gonna find fuel my friend.....
Ok, so it's funny everyone seized upon this exchange. As much as I post for affirmation or condemnation or advice as a newbie on this forum, I don't need much help on this one (for once). Here's the deal: W absolutely is conflicted...but not about whether she wants to bask in the glory of Doug in the marriage. Her internal conflict is about breaking up the family and the collateral damage that divorce would bring in all its elements - financial, emotional, physical. I saw countless texts to friends where W expressed worry about regretting splitting up or doubting that she had the courage to go through with a D (back when I did snoop around, which I've since stopped for my own sanity).
Now, does that mean it won't happen? Of course not. If you asked me today, I'd probably predict an LH19-style year of treading water in a dead marriage, with a possible filing next summer. That would be contingent on an in-home separation. Absent that, maybe separation would happen next summer in the form of someone getting an apartment. Or, something falls into her lap and she leaves next week. Or, maybe the house will catch fire and I'll rescue her, and she'll realize she still loves me.
Aside from the last scenario, the outlook is basically blah. I feel like Leo in Titanic when they're climbing up the bow of the ship to what would be the last place above water. The only silver lining is that W pretty much knows by now that I. Am. Not. Moving. Out. I mean, that's been hammered home. And she's not acting miffed towards me today at all, even after yesterday's counseling session. Just now she sought me out to ask if I liked her nails. She could easily make life in the house shytty for me and close up the nookie shop as well, but there's no indication that's imminent. I know there are mixed thoughts on that but I'm content to ride it out (also in LH19-style...I guess I am learning at the heels of a great master).
As to my response to W saying she's conflicted and I'm like Peace out...I simply said "Right. Well, I gotta go pick up (S14)." And with that, I walked out of the house to my car. Flawless victory.
Yeah you have young kids and at 43 you have lots of time to think about your future. Ride this puppy out and boink her if she wants to keep doing it. Just shows you are not a monster. Only a psycho would boink a monster right? Make the changes you need to make and enjoy the remaining 100% of the time you have with the kids. IHS gets easier once you officially wave the white flag and surrender to the unknown. You won’t feel like this forever and you will be happier in the long run.
You seem to be doing well as an LBS. I would recommend you keep on your path of improvement and growth. That will never fail you.
No more MC.
Maybe much much later, but not now. There is no logic in attending MC when only one party wants to reconcile. It takes two to tango. Right now you are one.
Focus on yourself and your kids. Get out of her head and what she is thinking. You don't want to know nor do you need to know what she's thinking.
She's already said she wants distance. So give it to her.
Traveler nailed it. Caving is not a strong move. Therefore not attractive. Weak moves do not command respect. Always pick commanding respect over being nice.
My problem during parts of the relationship was that I tried to command too much respect to the point I came off as an a-hole. Furthermore, perhaps "caving" was not the word I should have used there. On my own, I agreed to go...knowing it wasn't going to be a big deal other than a wasted co-pay.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
As far as the rest of the exchange that resulted, obviously my stance is that they should never have happened. She is using MC to try to get you to cave (and this is why caving is a bad idea because if you cave on MC then just maybe you'll cave on nesting or some other thing). So it is hard to for me to give props.
That's very fair, and I can already tell I'm going to have a tough time on the nesting BS if and when it comes around because I'll be thinking of the kids getting to see both parents in the house. Don't get me wrong, I've read all the reasons not to nest from this board...and I would *not* be a happy camper if I found a used rubber in the trash of the co-apartment.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
What I will say is that she is trying to manipulate you. "Go to MC!" So she can try to get you to cave on her other plans. "I am conflicted." If you continue to play ball with what I want it might save the marriage. (HINT: It won't.) "It looks like we have to stay put for now." If I act like I am resigned to the way things are then maybe Doug will give me more of what I want.
Believe NOTHING she says. That literally means NOTHING.
I've mostly been ok on refusing to believe anything she says, mainly because everything gets cancelled out at one point or another. There's no consistency. If you read my latest post, I'm mostly resigned to having to settle in for a bit of a ride. I have offered W the door and meant it, but she won't leave the kids (which, honestly, would be quite painful to see her make that choice).
You seem to be doing well as an LBS. I would recommend you keep on your path of improvement and growth. That will never fail you.
No more MC.
Maybe much much later, but not now. There is no logic in attending MC when only one party wants to reconcile. It takes two to tango. Right now you are one.
Focus on yourself and your kids. Get out of her head and what she is thinking. You don't want to know nor do you need to know what she's thinking.
She's already said she wants distance. So give it to her.
You got this.
Take care
IW
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Will. That's a good observation - I most definitely would not want to know what she's thinking in her head. I have been playing the distance card and it usually results in her seeking me out. I mean, it's a nothing-burger but at least I'm not pursuing.
Yeah you have young kids and at 43 you have lots of time to think about your future. Ride this puppy out and boink her if she wants to keep doing it. Just shows you are not a monster. Only a psycho would boink a monster right? Make the changes you need to make and enjoy the remaining 100% of the time you have with the kids. IHS gets easier once you officially wave the white flag and surrender to the unknown. You won’t feel like this forever and you will be happier in the long run.
That's logic worthy of Aristotle right there. So...you did in-home separation. I was going to ask because I believe you said W still lived with you for a year after filing, which doesn't make sense any other way. I'm guessing you didn't really "maintain separation" but still acknowledged it in writing? I guess that's how these things may play out.
How did you know when it was time to wave the white flag? Did you shed any tears at that point? I feel like I'm desensitized since this has been going on for months, but it would still be a gut punch if W up and left tomorrow.
I know you've said that your EXW has settled for a bit of a schlub (are they now married?) and that she misses the kids when they're not with her. Do you think she regrets splitting up?
