I do hope you are right and I do so hope I am wrong. But at least two of Sandy's rules say to watch the actions, not words. Trust nothing what the MLC'er says and only half of what he/she does.
It has been a while since I last glanced over them (immensly valuable though) but I also seem to remember that one states if the MLCer is sincere then he/she must commit fully and there has to be total disclosure and no secrets kept from the LBS. That means all passwords, mail accounts, phones, computers, tablets must be unlocked at all times. But as we all know, MLC'er will find a way to continue the ilicit affair.
Also I think it is important for the LBS to be aware of the monster task ahead. This situation is not something that some silly putty will fix. This is a life changing event. Nothing will be as it once was.
I do hope you are right and I do so hope I am wrong. But at least two of Sandy's rules say to watch the actions, not words. Trust nothing what the MLC'er says and only half of what he/she does.
It has been a while since I last glanced over them (immensly valuable though) but I also seem to remember that one states if the MLCer is sincere then he/she must commit fully and there has to be total disclosure and no secrets kept from the LBS. That means all passwords, mail accounts, phones, computers, tablets must be unlocked at all times. But as we all know, MLC'er will find a way to continue the ilicit affair.
Also I think it is important for the LBS to be aware of the monster task ahead. This situation is not something that some silly putty will fix. This is a life changing event. Nothing will be as it once was.
Thing is....I agree with you about all of that....
Just that now may not be the time. Her actions, by going on this trip, kinda matched her words in MC....
And exactly how many MLCers have agreed to ...
A- go to marriage counseling
B-participate in marriage counseling once they went
C-verbalize their desire to work on the marriage in marriage counseling
Follow the actions, not the words. She's taking action which backs up her words.
Marriage counseling - in my experience, the first few months of marriage counseling things tend to get much worse, not better. It does eventually get better, if both parties hang in and work on it and the MC is pro-marriage.
BL, just be there for your friend. You know the drill.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Appreciate you checking in. I'm doing alright. No major updates in the last month, but there were a few minor incidents which got me emotional or worked up:
ExFIL Involvement - My parents and I have maintained a cordial to friendly relation with ExFIL (not at all ExMIL) considering the sitch, trying to keep him involved with S7 and D3, because he's being left out to an extent on ExW's side with ExMIL getting top billing. So on a Thurs on my week before the kids went on vacation with ExW, OM2, ExMIL..etc the following week I let him watch the kids even though it was my mom's day. Well the day before they leave - just two days after my accommodation - he's texting and calling me about how he wants to come over and see the kids before vacation, but it wasn't a good day because I had activities planned and D3 was having a rough day, so I actually invited him to two of the activities later. But those didn't work for him so instead he showed up to my house unannounced and without me saying OK! Just to give the kids gifts before they left (which he could've easily done just two days prior). Now, understood he's anxious about his role and ExW's ExMIL favoritism but thought that was very inappropriate. I guess I need to really consider better boundaries and how to approach things going forward. I'd like to balance keeping him involved because he loves the kids and is good with them against feeling taken advantage of and being walked all over.
Friend's Wedding - I mentioned this previously, but attended a college buddy's second wedding. He and his Ex (who I also knew from college) attended my wedding pregnant with their second child and then a year or two later divorced, so similar to my timeline in age of kids. Anyway, I was fine overall at my first wedding post-BD but did get emotional and teared up seeing his kids walk down the aisle to a wedding ceremony which didn't involve their mother (though this woman was not an "AP/OW", they met well after the D). But it made me think of my kids living with OM2 and potentially being involved in a wedding of their mother in the future. Not the family home life I had envisioned for my kids.
Swim Lessons - ExW & I agreed the kids would take swim lessons at the club which I'm a member of. They're constantly swimming in pools and lakes and oceans so they're very comfortable and good in water, but we wanted some formal stroke instruction. Anyway, it's "ExW's week" but I agree to flex out of work and go to A) see the kids and B) help out because it's my club, except I couldn't make the first day because I was out of town so ExW was supposed to take them but instead she had ExMIL do it and apparently the kids fought her on it and D3 refused to get in. So the next day I meet ExFIL there in the parking lot and the kids are not dressed for swimming and had not eaten breakfast and are refusing to go (ExFIL didn't get them ready!) and I'm put in the awkward position of being of the kids having two parties to play off of, get them in the pool area and make them sit and wait it out even if they don't get in the pool. Well Wednesday & Friday it's just me and things go great - both kids have eaten, get swimsuits, participate...etc. But Thurs with ExFIl it's a challenge again. It's just tough to have so many different parties involved and different rules and expectations. So I email ExW about it in what I thought was a well crafted, thought out, reasoned explanation of what happened, what I recommend on approach...etc. purposefully trying not to be emotional or judgmental, an attempt to co-parent. However, she responds with a how dare I accuse her of being a bad mother and I need to apologize...etc. It turns out she had a rough week with the kids and they were giving her grief and my email hit at a time she was worked up. But these situations with the kids going from one parent's house to another and different grandparents each day on ExW's week...it's challenging to provide consistency of schedule, rules...etc for the kids and puts me in a tough position with them enforcing rules and expectations some times. And no one wanting to be the "bad guy" parent or grandparent (which I'm a firm/expectations/boundaries/rules parent), so I think it's tougher for me in that position. Others are buying them toys and giving them candy left and right all the time to win their favor IMO.
Divorced Couple Reference - In emailing about son's (minor) health issue, my ExW referenced talking to the dad of a kid who went to preschool with S7 who had a similar illness, and mentioned the kid and his mother. Now, I'm very aware this man left his wife (and mother of his three kids) and had a baby with an AP and now they're D. Now, I'm almost certain my ExW knows their situation because used to work for her former employer but was "highly encouraged" to leave as a result of his actions and now works where my W landed...they've lived parallel lives! Not sure if ExW knows I know this. Regardless, it boiled my blood to see her reference them in the email considering the affairs/divorce/broken family and our parallel sitches. I was tempted to respond with something like "Oh...I know all about this man, and what he did to his ExW/mother of his kids and how he had to leave his former employer. You two will fit in well together at new employer". But I stopped away from my email and calmed down and responded later just regarding S7's.
I've done well in taking time to process, craft out an un-emotional/un-judgmental response, and keep it business-like, so doing well in that regard of not arguing/blaming ExW and keeping things civil for co-parenting purposes, but recognize the need to do better about not letting these type of things get under my skin and rile me up in the first place. I need to work on letting it just roll off and not letting myself getting worked up. Hopefully things will continue to improve on that front over time.
On a positive note my sister is pregnant with #2 and ExW let me switch last minute one of her weekend days so the kids could travel up with me for the (impromptu) gender reveal and has agreed to let the kids attend their cousin (my nieces) birthday party on her day this Fall. So she's being reasonable on accommodating my family's events when there are scheduling conflicts.
Anyway...super excited for later this month as I'm taking the kids down the shore on vacation for two weeks straight. It'll be exhausting at times, but also tons of fun and great bonding time for me and the kids. We go to the same area every year so now they remember and are anticipating it and getting excited asking to do certain things again this year like the beach, ocean, boardwalk, mini-golf, dolphin boat ride...etc. Can not wait...I love those kiddos!
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
Appreciate you checking in. I'm doing alright. No major updates in the last month, but there were a few minor incidents which got me emotional or worked up:
ExFIL Involvement - My parents and I have maintained a cordial to friendly relation with ExFIL (not at all ExMIL) considering the sitch, trying to keep him involved with S7 and D3, because he's being left out to an extent on ExW's side with ExMIL getting top billing. So on a Thurs on my week before the kids went on vacation with ExW, OM2, ExMIL..etc the following week I let him watch the kids even though it was my mom's day. Well the day before they leave - just two days after my accommodation - he's texting and calling me about how he wants to come over and see the kids before vacation, but it wasn't a good day because I had activities planned and D3 was having a rough day, so I actually invited him to two of the activities later. But those didn't work for him so instead he showed up to my house unannounced and without me saying OK! Just to give the kids gifts before they left (which he could've easily done just two days prior). Now, understood he's anxious about his role and ExW's ExMIL favoritism but thought that was very inappropriate. I guess I need to really consider better boundaries and how to approach things going forward. I'd like to balance keeping him involved because he loves the kids and is good with them against feeling taken advantage of and being walked all over.
Friend's Wedding - I mentioned this previously, but attended a college buddy's second wedding. He and his Ex (who I also knew from college) attended my wedding pregnant with their second child and then a year or two later divorced, so similar to my timeline in age of kids. Anyway, I was fine overall at my first wedding post-BD but did get emotional and teared up seeing his kids walk down the aisle to a wedding ceremony which didn't involve their mother (though this woman was not an "AP/OW", they met well after the D). But it made me think of my kids living with OM2 and potentially being involved in a wedding of their mother in the future. Not the family home life I had envisioned for my kids.
Swim Lessons - ExW & I agreed the kids would take swim lessons at the club which I'm a member of. They're constantly swimming in pools and lakes and oceans so they're very comfortable and good in water, but we wanted some formal stroke instruction. Anyway, it's "ExW's week" but I agree to flex out of work and go to A) see the kids and B) help out because it's my club, except I couldn't make the first day because I was out of town so ExW was supposed to take them but instead she had ExMIL do it and apparently the kids fought her on it and D3 refused to get in. So the next day I meet ExFIL there in the parking lot and the kids are not dressed for swimming and had not eaten breakfast and are refusing to go (ExFIL didn't get them ready!) and I'm put in the awkward position of being of the kids having two parties to play off of, get them in the pool area and make them sit and wait it out even if they don't get in the pool. Well Wednesday & Friday it's just me and things go great - both kids have eaten, get swimsuits, participate...etc. But Thurs with ExFIl it's a challenge again. It's just tough to have so many different parties involved and different rules and expectations. So I email ExW about it in what I thought was a well crafted, thought out, reasoned explanation of what happened, what I recommend on approach...etc. purposefully trying not to be emotional or judgmental, an attempt to co-parent. However, she responds with a how dare I accuse her of being a bad mother and I need to apologize...etc. It turns out she had a rough week with the kids and they were giving her grief and my email hit at a time she was worked up. But these situations with the kids going from one parent's house to another and different grandparents each day on ExW's week...it's challenging to provide consistency of schedule, rules...etc for the kids and puts me in a tough position with them enforcing rules and expectations some times. And no one wanting to be the "bad guy" parent or grandparent (which I'm a firm/expectations/boundaries/rules parent), so I think it's tougher for me in that position. Others are buying them toys and giving them candy left and right all the time to win their favor IMO.
Divorced Couple Reference - In emailing about son's (minor) health issue, my ExW referenced talking to the dad of a kid who went to preschool with S7 who had a similar illness, and mentioned the kid and his mother. Now, I'm very aware this man left his wife (and mother of his three kids) and had a baby with an AP and now they're D. Now, I'm almost certain my ExW knows their situation because used to work for her former employer but was "highly encouraged" to leave as a result of his actions and now works where my W landed...they've lived parallel lives! Not sure if ExW knows I know this. Regardless, it boiled my blood to see her reference them in the email considering the affairs/divorce/broken family and our parallel sitches. I was tempted to respond with something like "Oh...I know all about this man, and what he did to his ExW/mother of his kids and how he had to leave his former employer. You two will fit in well together at new employer". But I stopped away from my email and calmed down and responded later just regarding S7's.
First off.....
Venting ?
Or would you like thoughts ?
Originally Posted by BL
I've done well in taking time to process, craft out an un-emotional/un-judgmental response, and keep it business-like, so doing well in that regard of not arguing/blaming ExW and keeping things civil for co-parenting purposes, but recognize the need to do better about not letting these type of things get under my skin and rile me up in the first place. I need to work on letting it just roll off and not letting myself getting worked up. Hopefully things will continue to improve on that front over time.
As long as you craft it without having any expectations that anything will actually change.....today...
It may work down the road, it may not...
As much as I tried those things, I found that emailing the Pope was a more productive waste of words.
I would liken what you are actually doing as "parallel parenting" instead of a co-parenting thing. I see that YOU want to co-parent, yet she and your ex-out in laws have their plan, and are sticking to it hell or high water.
I think your frustration may be coming from that...
Originally Posted by BL
On a positive note my sister is pregnant with #2 and ExW let me switch last minute one of her weekend days so the kids could travel up with me for the (impromptu) gender reveal and has agreed to let the kids attend their cousin (my nieces) birthday party on her day this Fall. So she's being reasonable on accommodating my family's events when there are scheduling conflicts.
F'ing awesome.....
It's the little things that you can agree on that may lead to co-parenting down the road...
No score keeping, just "this is really what is best for OUR children....
Not yours...
Not hers...
YOURS....
She might not see this, especially if your exMIL is like she is....
Just keep doing 'good' and it won't matter what the other side is doing, at least you will have the peace of mind that you are doing good....
Originally Posted by BL
Anyway...super excited for later this month as I'm taking the kids down the shore on vacation for two weeks straight. It'll be exhausting at times, but also tons of fun and great bonding time for me and the kids. We go to the same area every year so now they remember and are anticipating it and getting excited asking to do certain things again this year like the beach, ocean, boardwalk, mini-golf, dolphin boat ride...etc. Can not wait...I love those kiddos!
A little venting for sure, but mostly open to thoughts and advice - that's why I'm here!
Originally Posted by Mach1
I would liken what you are actually doing as "parallel parenting" instead of a co-parenting thing. I see that YOU want to co-parent, yet she and your ex-out in laws have their plan, and are sticking to it hell or high water.
I think your frustration may be coming from that...
IMO it's in the best interest of the kids to have as much of a consistent/united front in parenting, especially with them being so young. We've done relatively "alright" considering the situation - no major fights in front of the kids or parental alienation or anything like that - but there are definitely frustration points. It's a lot harder to say "you have to go to swim lessons" or "you can't eat candy before dinner" or "you have to do your school assignments to avoid the Summer slide" when they don't hear the same message on the other side.
Originally Posted by Mach1
Just keep doing 'good' and it won't matter what the other side is doing, at least you will have the peace of mind that you are doing good....
Good point. All my decisions and actions throughout this process have gone through the lens of "what's best for the kids", regardless of Ex. I'm at peace knowing I've done right by them.
Originally Posted by Mach1
I'm pumped for ya man.....
First time with just you ???
Thanks! It's actually the third Summer taking them without ExW (kids were S4/D1 when she left), but my family goes as well so it's not just me alone; I'll have support. ExW went many Summers as well and liked it, or at least seemed to. We used to take family photos there and when my ExW was pregnant we picked out my daughter's name during a walk on the beach and wrote it out in sand to make the announcement. Then-S4 told my mom awhile back..."I don't get it Grandma. Mommy would like this." He couldn't understand why she wouldn't want to be there. What a heartbreaker.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
IMO it's in the best interest of the kids to have as much of a consistent/united front in parenting - but there are definitely frustration points. It's a lot harder to say "you have to go to swim lessons" or "you can't eat candy before dinner" or "you have to do your school assignments to avoid the Summer slide" when they don't hear the same message on the other side.
At +12yrs after divorce, this causes me minimal frustration. You and your ex may encourage an overarching code of ethics, but your S7 already doubtless follow different rules when attending church or school than they do on the playground with friends. As long as you're respectful of your ex's rules when they're at you're ex's, and your ex is respectful of your rules when they're at your place, that's usually enough barring abuse or neglect. My simple refrain is the following: "You follow mom's rules at mom's place and dad's rules at home." D3 I could see being more difficult. That's young for such variation!
Often we create rules because it's what we learned growing up or we believe we need to encourage good behavior. Your ex allowing candy before dinner is a perfect example. When your kids eat a few M&Ms before dinner at your ex's, does chaos ensure--e.g., they eat only half their food and skip their vegetables? Maybe the rule isn't needed. Every kid's different. I sometimes try dropping a rule and see what happens. If it doesn't work out I add it back and explain why.
A little venting for sure, but mostly open to thoughts and advice - that's why I'm here!
I'm learning to ask....never know when one might find themself in the 'Notification' thread ....
Sigh...
Originally Posted by B
ExFIL Involvement - My parents and I have maintained a cordial to friendly relation with ExFIL (not at all ExMIL) considering the sitch, trying to keep him involved with S7 and D3, because he's being left out to an extent on ExW's side with ExMIL getting top billing. So on a Thurs on my week before the kids went on vacation with ExW, OM2, ExMIL..etc the following week I let him watch the kids even though it was my mom's day. Well the day before they leave - just two days after my accommodation - he's texting and calling me about how he wants to come over and see the kids before vacation, but it wasn't a good day because I had activities planned and D3 was having a rough day, so I actually invited him to two of the activities later. But those didn't work for him so instead he showed up to my house unannounced and without me saying OK! Just to give the kids gifts before they left (which he could've easily done just two days prior). Now, understood he's anxious about his role and ExW's ExMIL favoritism but thought that was very inappropriate. I guess I need to really consider better boundaries and how to approach things going forward. I'd like to balance keeping him involved because he loves the kids and is good with them against feeling taken advantage of and being walked all over.
I would imagine that YOUR version of what's best and their version are two different things...
And while YOU expect the same level of devotion and concern over things happening on time, being ready on time, etc....
their version happens on THEIR time, not yours or the kids....
Maybe you are expecting too much ?
Unspoken expectations are resentments waiting to happen ya know....
Tell him that you would like for him to spend as much time as possible, yet he has got to play things the way you need them to be....
Originally Posted by B
Friend's Wedding - I mentioned this previously, but attended a college buddy's second wedding. He and his Ex (who I also knew from college) attended my wedding pregnant with their second child and then a year or two later divorced, so similar to my timeline in age of kids. Anyway, I was fine overall at my first wedding post-BD but did get emotional and teared up seeing his kids walk down the aisle to a wedding ceremony which didn't involve their mother (though this woman was not an "AP/OW", they met well after the D). But it made me think of my kids living with OM2 and potentially being involved in a wedding of their mother in the future. Not the family home life I had envisioned for my kids.
Yep. that potential certainly exists....
It's one of the downfalls, and emotional triggers that happen....
Feel it and work through it...
However don't get stuck trying to predict future feelings....it won't serve you well, and usually they don't always play out the way we have seen them in our heads....
Originally Posted by B
Swim Lessons - ExW & I agreed the kids would take swim lessons at the club which I'm a member of. They're constantly swimming in pools and lakes and oceans so they're very comfortable and good in water, but we wanted some formal stroke instruction. Anyway, it's "ExW's week" but I agree to flex out of work and go to A) see the kids and B) help out because it's my club, except I couldn't make the first day because I was out of town so ExW was supposed to take them but instead she had ExMIL do it and apparently the kids fought her on it and D3 refused to get in. So the next day I meet ExFIL there in the parking lot and the kids are not dressed for swimming and had not eaten breakfast and are refusing to go (ExFIL didn't get them ready!) and I'm put in the awkward position of being of the kids having two parties to play off of, get them in the pool area and make them sit and wait it out even if they don't get in the pool. Well Wednesday & Friday it's just me and things go great - both kids have eaten, get swimsuits, participate...etc. But Thurs with ExFIl it's a challenge again. It's just tough to have so many different parties involved and different rules and expectations. So I email ExW about it in what I thought was a well crafted, thought out, reasoned explanation of what happened, what I recommend on approach...etc. purposefully trying not to be emotional or judgmental, an attempt to co-parent. However, she responds with a how dare I accuse her of being a bad mother and I need to apologize...etc. It turns out she had a rough week with the kids and they were giving her grief and my email hit at a time she was worked up. But these situations with the kids going from one parent's house to another and different grandparents each day on ExW's week...it's challenging to provide consistency of schedule, rules...etc for the kids and puts me in a tough position with them enforcing rules and expectations some times. And no one wanting to be the "bad guy" parent or grandparent (which I'm a firm/expectations/boundaries/rules parent), so I think it's tougher for me in that position. Others are buying them toys and giving them candy left and right all the time to win their favor IMO.
Like I said above, people aren't going to parent the same as you....
You're gonna have Disney parents through their lives now, in buckets....
People are gonna "feel" bad for them, because they've believed a side of the story that isn't quite true, and are sorry that the kids have to go through this....
Mind you, not enough to GAF when it was happening, yet they console the best they can after the fact...
It really is a mind F...
One thing that helped me was to realize that there were "her" weeks, and "my" weeks with them...
And once I kinda learned the 'parallel' side of things....I would typically back away from things and let her lead them, regardless what else was happening. And I would allow myself to be a little more flexible through those times.
Maybe just either fully take charge and change weeks of custody, or be prepared for any craziness that may happen on those weeks....
It's not always gonna look like you think it will....
So maybe "Boy Scout' creed it......be prepared....
Originally Posted by B
Divorced Couple Reference - In emailing about son's (minor) health issue, my ExW referenced talking to the dad of a kid who went to preschool with S7 who had a similar illness, and mentioned the kid and his mother. Now, I'm very aware this man left his wife (and mother of his three kids) and had a baby with an AP and now they're D. Now, I'm almost certain my ExW knows their situation because used to work for her former employer but was "highly encouraged" to leave as a result of his actions and now works where my W landed...they've lived parallel lives! Not sure if ExW knows I know this. Regardless, it boiled my blood to see her reference them in the email considering the affairs/divorce/broken family and our parallel sitches. I was tempted to respond with something like "Oh...I know all about this man, and what he did to his ExW/mother of his kids and how he had to leave his former employer. You two will fit in well together at new employer". But I stopped away from my email and calmed down and responded later just regarding S7's.
Yea, you kinda set your own ass on fire there....
For me ? It's simple....
You do not parent with them....
They are the second for any information.
AND....
If it involves YOUR children, then they either abide by the plan that you have in motion for them ( on your weeks), or they can loose the PRIVILEDGE of spending time with them on your weeks...
: )
Strength and Honor BL.....and some Dignity and Grace too....
Last edited by Cadet; 08/04/2206:24 PM. Reason: edit per mach
