I only have time for a quick reply--but WONDERFUL JOB DB'ing when your W wanted an R talk. You set and held firm to boundaries controlling you. You validated her feelings. This is TheWay for either R or D'ing on the best terms. Small misstep (guilting/manipulation). I agree with BL42's reply.
This really fuching angers me when someone wants out and is not willing to leave. I like to use the Braveheart analogy here "hold, hold, hold". It's going to get tense here Doug there is no way around it. Are you going to keep the house?
That's the million dollar question, LH. If things happened today, I don't know if either of us could buy out the other's equity in the house. I'd be getting bled dry in child support. Funnily enough, back before I had read DR and held too many relationship talks, W said many times that "the kids need a house" and that she'd stay in a marriage she didn't want to if that's what it took. Hyperbole, to be sure, but she's definitely allergic to the thought of the house being sold as part of a divorce. I honestly think she believes I'd rather keep my full pension and just give her the house. However, I'm sure I'd need my share of the house sale profit for down payment on another home for myself.
I agree with BL and LH. DO NOT move out. She will try pleading, threats and extortion on you. Do not budge, do not flinch. It would be perfect if you managed to stay cool and calm and say to her:"You want out? There is the door. This is my house and my home and I am not moving."
Be prepared to possibly be subjected to extortion, she might call the police and say you assaulted her. If you see indications that it might come to that, I would highly suggest to record the communications.
I know you will say I'm crazy and that would never happen and that your W is not like that, but the reality is she really at the moment is not the person you knew for all the years.
Several posters on these boards have had police called on them claiming spausal abuse has taken place. Be very careful you do not end up on the wrong end of a restraining order.
That's a terrifying and sobering thought, Vapo. I'm glad you threw it out there, to be honest, and I will try not to let my guard down. You're right - it's something I'd have never thought my W capable of doing, but this current being is not the same person I married years ago.
If you see indications that it might come to that, I would highly suggest to record the communications.
Understand the laws in your state, which vary. Some states are "one-party consent" meaning if you're a party to the conversation you can record without the other person's knowledge. Others are "two-party consent" in which both parties need to be aware of the recording.
Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but knowledge = power.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
It's okay to let her live her decisions by letting her know that you have no plans to move, yet maybe not point out to her about breaking up the family....
It just seems a little vindictive. No matter how true it might be.
IF there is hope of having anything in the future, her feeling judged will NOT point you toward that direction...
Seems pretty simple though....
I would like to pursue IC for now, when that changes, I will let you know...
That's a good point that others have made as well. I dropped the ball on that phrasing.
Originally Posted by Mach1
For now, don't try and borrow trouble from the future.
You never know how this will play out, just focus on you for now....
Don't get sukced into any conversations that you aren't ready to have...
Don't ring any bells that can't be un-rung...
And don't ask any questions that you really don't want answered....
I feel like I've done a better job since reading DR and this site. A 180 for me was validating her feelings and avoiding back-and-forth arguments. Since this strategy has been present in my mind, I've had a reasonable amount of success, and trending up.
Originally Posted by Mach1
From what I've seen....things will more than likely get worse before they can get any better...
I've likened it to a Space Shuttle analogy...
When they would launch the Shuttle, they had these booster tanks attached to them because of the amount of fuel they consumed during lift off....
Once they ascended to the desired altitude and the fuel was used, the tanks would fall away....
Think of this right now, as that....
Her anger (the tanks) is her fuel to "push away" from you, the marriage, friends, family, and whoever doesn't support her decisions.
The harder it is to get off of the ground, the more fuel(anger) she will burn trying to lift off...
Yes, it took me a while to get that logic is out the window. I read up a lot on MLCs but DR and this website have helped the most, probably even more than IC up to this point.
Originally Posted by Mach1
Things aren't great in her head right now either, and the anger allows her to paint you in an undesirable position.
There will be things that she says that will not be entirely true, yet to her, they are VERY true...
Thing is...
YOU get to choose what is true to you also...
And the difference??
The things that send that little 'sting" up the back of your neck ??
Those are the things that you typically don't like about yourself....
Those are the things that you dig deep inside of yourself to change...
D.....this didn't break in a day, and it won't be fixed in a day....
Yes, lots of revisionist history that I instinctively tried to rebut before learning about validating and then trying to break that habit. I was particularly annoyed by claims (via her IC, who's never met me) that I'm a narcissist, "diagnosed" based on what strategic soundbites W fed her. I'm certain she only got her IC sessions up and running as fuel and reassurance that leaving me was warranted and the correct move.
Originally Posted by Mach1
For now, just try and take care of yourself....
And remember that you will never talk your way out of something that you acted your way into.....
Set some goals for YOU....
Find something new that you have always wanted to do....
Maybe tell us something about you....
likes ?
Hobbies ?
Find a reason to smile....
Thanks, Mach. I've been trying to GAL and also do more with the kids this summer, which has been win-win - it gets me out with them and gives W space. I appreciate your psych-based approach and feedback!
Don't be afraid to walk out of the room and not engage with her.
That is always an option.
You don't need to resolve everything and DB'ing is to do what works.
Some times avoiding the confrontation is not a bad idea.
Thanks, Cadet. I tried that a couple times this morning but she was in a bit of a combative place and followed me around the house a bit. Fortunately, it wasn't *that* bad when all was said and done.
It's okay to let her live her decisions by letting her know that you have no plans to move, yet maybe not point out to her about breaking up the family....
It just seems a little vindictive. No matter how true it might be.
IF there is hope of having anything in the future, her feeling judged will NOT point you toward that direction...
Seems pretty simple though....
I would like to pursue IC for now, when that changes, I will let you know...
That's a good point that others have made as well. I dropped the ball on that phrasing.
IF she is MLC.....sigh
IF she is, the one thing that an MLCer fears the most, it is judgement.
She will drop friends if she even thinks that they are judging her for her decisions.
Dropping the ball isn't that big of a deal for now, as long as you try not to make that same mistake again.
Originally Posted by D54
Originally Posted by Mach1
For now, don't try and borrow trouble from the future.
You never know how this will play out, just focus on you for now....
Don't get sukced into any conversations that you aren't ready to have...
Don't ring any bells that can't be un-rung...
And don't ask any questions that you really don't want answered....
I feel like I've done a better job since reading DR and this site. A 180 for me was validating her feelings and avoiding back-and-forth arguments. Since this strategy has been present in my mind, I've had a reasonable amount of success, and trending up.
What has she shown you when you've been able to sit back and hear her ?
The more that you can just listen, the more they say. And with that, IF she is MLC, you will probably hear a bunch of contradicting and confusing stuff....
Some of it will be true, some will be false....
It should resemble what carried Dorothy to start her trip to Oz....
And this is much the same as that....HER trip...she has to do this....
Just try and not be along the road singing.....If I only had a ____
KWIM ???
Originally Posted by d54
Originally Posted by Mach1
From what I've seen....things will more than likely get worse before they can get any better...
I've likened it to a Space Shuttle analogy...
When they would launch the Shuttle, they had these booster tanks attached to them because of the amount of fuel they consumed during lift off....
Once they ascended to the desired altitude and the fuel was used, the tanks would fall away....
Think of this right now, as that....
Her anger (the tanks) is her fuel to "push away" from you, the marriage, friends, family, and whoever doesn't support her decisions.
The harder it is to get off of the ground, the more fuel(anger) she will burn trying to lift off...
Yes, it took me a while to get that logic is out the window. I read up a lot on MLCs but DR and this website have helped the most, probably even more than IC up to this point.
Just be aware of that ^^^^
Not sure if you've yet....
When that b!tch switch gets flipped in the middle of a conversation....
Be aware of what it is....
Don't playdifferent because you've read about it...
Be different because that's who you want to be...
Originally Posted by D54
Originally Posted by Mach1
Things aren't great in her head right now either, and the anger allows her to paint you in an undesirable position.
There will be things that she says that will not be entirely true, yet to her, they are VERY true...
Thing is...
YOU get to choose what is true to you also...
And the difference??
The things that send that little 'sting" up the back of your neck ??
Those are the things that you typically don't like about yourself....
Those are the things that you dig deep inside of yourself to change...
D.....this didn't break in a day, and it won't be fixed in a day....
Yes, lots of revisionist history that I instinctively tried to rebut before learning about validating and then trying to break that habit. I was particularly annoyed by claims (via her IC, who's never met me) that I'm a narcissist, "diagnosed" based on what strategic soundbites W fed her. I'm certain she only got her IC sessions up and running as fuel and reassurance that leaving me was warranted and the correct move.
Oh yea, the therapist...making decisions about you based off of another person's description.
Truth is.....
It doesn't matter if it's true or not...
Those are her truths to tell. Same as you have your truth to tell....
Somewhere in the middle is probably more where the actual truth is....
You could probably list 500 things that you would like to go back in time and re-do.
Same as she could and possibly is doing...
The difference is....that an MLCer will throw away people first before they can look inward...
YOU get to do almost the same thing, except that you can toss away the behaviors rather than the people....
And you can do that without the destruction and collateral damage that comes along with it...
Originally Posted by D54
Thanks, Mach. I've been trying to GAL and also do more with the kids this summer, which has been win-win - it gets me out with them and gives W space. I appreciate your psych-based approach and feedback!
Psych.......o logical ? or chotic ?
: )
I think that you are key here....
How you are, what you choose, how you choose..
You can be a victim or a survivor....your choice.
Your goal. if she is MLC, is to outlast it, and become better than you were while she is spinning her head around and picking up WMLC in her dental fillings.....
Like most, you weren't as awful as you have been painted out to be. A tweak here or there, some new shiny tools in your relationship tool kit. Buff this out, polish that....
You'll get there.
However this turns out, YOU will become a more complete version of yourself if you choose that.
And perhaps one day you will be grateful for every road you took to get there....
I only have time for a quick reply--but WONDERFUL JOB DB'ing when your W wanted an R talk. You set and held firm to boundaries controlling you. You validated her feelings. This is TheWay for either R or D'ing on the best terms. Small misstep (guilting/manipulation). I agree with BL42's reply.
Thanks for the words of affirmation, Traveler. I will try for a perfect response next time, minus the guilt trip. Hopefully with more practice under my belt I'll be able to nail it...better yet, no attempted R talks to begin with!
