Oh one last thing. There are no shortcuts here. Trying to shortcut all of this will just cause you more pain. I see you think having the talk to get it over with will help. It won't. There is not a "THE talk". You will have a talk. Then days and weeks will pass and you will convince yourself that the right approach is ANOTHER talk.
The problem? Reread what Mach1 said. HE WILL LIE. Nothing he says can be believed or trusted. So what will talking do? Nothing, because you cannot put stock into any of it. Frustrating? YES!
In my situation my W would say whatever was convenient at the time. If her goal was to get out of the discussion, then she would say things she would hope would end it. If her goal was to make me feel better, then she would say things to try and make me feel better. If her goal was to try to convince me that D was the best option, then she would say things to try to convince me of that. None of it was real. None of it could be believed. None of it meant anything real or tangible.
As Mach said, talking your way out of a D, or out of his MLC is not an option. Talking will not work.
When you do things to try to shortcut your own pain it will fail every time. You will feel worse after taking any action meant to try to minimize the pain. You will feel worse afterward. The DBing advice is difficult, but it is the single best path there is. Trust me on this, I looked for them all.
And pay particular heed to Mach's point about there being no magic bullet. If there were something you could say or do to fix this, then this forum would not exist. Someone would have written a book centuries ago that said "Do this, and say this, to fix your marriage!" And there would never be another D again. The fact is that there is no such thing. So do things that minimize the damage, that focus on you, that let go of trying to control the situation. In other words, use the DB techniques espouse here and in the book.
And as Mach said, keep posting!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
((Virtual Hugs)) I'm the optimist here. My situation improved within 8 months! As in, we reconciled for a year before calling it quits. I made solid 180s and so did she, but I see where I (and she) could've done more. I feel better about calling it given that extra chance. Self-improvement is a life-long journey! As I continue, I hope to allow even more light and love into my life.
Originally Posted by Reeling
I have reached out to an online therapist service as there is none where I live.
That's great! There are many sites to see therapists virtually such as Talkspace, Betterhealth, and Calmerry. The last time it took me 3-4 switches to get an active therapist who seemed to care. I get it--they're charging 25-50% of their normal rates. My best online therapists matched my best offline therapists. I recommend 1:1 sessions if you seek more than validation.
Originally Posted by Reeling
I feel like I'm living in a nightmare. He cried at our wedding just five years ago. Just months ago he was telling me he loved me. My heart is utterly, utterly broken and I feel so alone. Unfortunately where I live, I have very few friends as we are both expats living in a foreign country. I wish I could stop crying.
Wow--I get feeling alone in that situation! I lived in a foreign country once. Do you speak the language? Are there people there into your culture? Is there an ex pat community? Is there a place nearby you can sit quietly and feel refreshed? It may be worth reaching out to friends and family back home. Having 1-2 people to lean on can make a world of difference.
I cannot stop sobbing. I have reached out to an online therapist service as there is none where I live. I feel like I'm living in a nightmare. He cried at our wedding just five years ago. Just months ago he was telling me he loved me. My heart is utterly, utterly broken and I feel so alone. Unfortunately where I live, I have very few friends as we are both expats living in a foreign country. I wish I could stop crying.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Reeling, the best advice I have seen for the emotions is to let them come. Feel them. Go through them. Mourning is not something that we should try to shortcut. You are going through a trauma of loss, it is expected that you will be sad. Please read the sticky thread on this forum "You Will Not Die".
We all have repressed emotions that need to come out. We are emotional beings. Find a safe time and place to let the tears flow. Some do it in the shower. Some in their car in parked someplace safe. Anger is in there as well. They have places called "rage rooms"...My step daughter and I are planning on going. Again, find a safe time and place to express some anger. Might feel scary at first, but it is good to let it out intentionally instead of coming out at the wrong time.
Long story short cry and cry and cry until you cant cry anymore. I always feel better after a good cry.
HUGS
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Hi everyone, I’m back. I left for a while – I was too in despair, too grief-struck, to really use this forum in a helpful, productive way. In hindsight, I now know that I was/am traumatised. I’m sure some or most of you know that being betrayed can trigger symptoms very similar to PTSD. For yes, yes indeed folks, there was an emotional affair. For those of you who’ve read my story, you will see how much I denied the existence of someone else when I first came on here. I am here to say I was wrong and those of you who suggested it were right.
This may be a little bit long; please forgive me for that. I’m so appreciative of you kind people and want to get my updated story out there and let you know where I’m at now because I am FINALLY ready to embrace the LRT and doing a 180 the way it’s meant to be done – for me. So, here we go:
JULY 2022: I joined (and then left) this forum in July, at a time when my WAH (BD April 2022) were occasionally, but rarely, seeing each other, meeting up for lunch dates etc. These were always initiated by me, as was most of our contact. However, gradually, our meetings started to become more frequent. Then lunch meet-ups became dinner meet-ups, which became dinner then drinks, then became dinner, drinks AND let’s go to a nightclub meet-ups, and finally became all of the above PLUS him starting to stay over. Looking good, right?
AUGUST 2022: Things continue as above, friends start to comment that they’re seeing us together a lot, what’s going on, etc. Through all of this I engage in very little relationship talk. I occasionally ask if he wants to save our marriage. Each time, I get a “maybe”. Once I got a “sometimes yes, sometimes no.” I still take these as positive signs given that when he walked out on me in April, it was a 100% absolute NO, NEVER.
SEPTEMBER 2022: The meet ups continue; he continues to stay over – not very often, maybe once a month, twice max. What I need to mention here is there is never any sex. He sleeps in our marital bed but no sex. I do not expect there to be sex given that we were pretty much in a sexless marriage before he left – instigated by him and when he walked out, he gave me the I love you but I’m not in love with you crap and also told me he was no longer physically attracted to me. I’d felt rejected sexually by him for years but the pain never lessens.
Anyway, we then go away for a weekend! At his suggestion! A friend of ours is having a birthday party, on another island (we live on an island in Thailand) where we used to live (and where we met). He suggests we go. We have a great weekend away, lots of fun and laughing. No relationship talk. No sex either BUT there is a definite shift, in that he is very heavily flirting with me throughout the weekend. Lots of touching me, pretending to tickle me, etc. For a guy who has not done this stuff with me for years.
About a week or two later, he stays over at mine again. I can’t bear it anymore and so I ask him, “am I the only one who wants to save our marriage?” He hesitates, then sighs. I say, “please tell me. Just please be honest and let me go, if that’s what needs to happen.”
He sighs again and then says, “No. You are not the only one who wants to save our marriage.” I feel huge relief (I don’t even realise then that I’m already blocking out the hesitancy, the sighing, all those red flags). We go to bed. We have sex. This is huge BUT he has some performance issues and doesn’t climax (hope that’s not too much info, the only reason I mention it is that sex, or the lack of it, has obviously been a problem between us, plus the fact that he has said he’s no longer attracted to me, not in love with me etc.)
I will add here that I am 52 but – and this really is not meant to sound arrogant – I look GOOD for my age. People can’t believe my age when they hear it. I am 5’ 10” tall, slim, in good shape, nice eyes, long legs – to hell with it, I’m going to big myself up because I refuse to let him destroy my self-esteem. I just feel the need to convey that I am not some 200 pound wife who’s let herself go! His failure to be attracted to me (I pretty much look the same as I did when we met 8 years ago and he chased and pursued me then and kept telling me how sexy I was) is exactly that – his failure. All part of the MLC he’s in.
OCTOBER 1: It’s a Saturday night and he is again staying over. The following day, we are planning to meet a huge gang of friends for brunch. That evening, we go out for a few drinks and bump into a mutual friend (more his friend than mine). My WAH is at the other end of our large table, talking to other people, when this mutual friend turns to me and asks me what my plans are for my future. Insinuates my marriage is over, asks am I going to stay here in Thailand, on this island where I’m unlikely to meet anyone else (true) etc. I innocently think to myself, “ah, she doesn’t know how much better things are getting between WAH and me”. And so I tell her. I say we’ve been getting a lot closer, spending more time together, he’s been staying over, we went away for a weekend together etc. She rolls her eyes and says “oh for god’s sake. I TOLD him he needs to be honest with you. He has told me he has no intention of getting back with you.” I still remember the room reeling (like me!) as she said that. The bit of me that was instantly traumatised tried to rationalize it by telling myself she must be referring to something he’d probably said months before, just after BD. So, I asked her when he had said that. She replied “4 nights ago when I bumped into him and we went for a drink. I’ve told him countless times to be honest with you, he is leading you along.”
Long story short: he and I go home. I decide not to say anything to him at that point as we’ve been drinking, it wouldn’t be a productive conversation and we have brunch plans with friends the next day. I tell myself that the day after the brunch I will confront him. He goes to bed, immediately falls asleep. I am about to get into bed and try to sleep too when something stops me. I go back out to the living room, where he has left his laptop. I pick it up. I know nothing on his laptop, email, social media, etc is password protected – it just opens..
BACKSTORY JULY 2021: He blindsides me for the first time by walking out on me, saying he’s not happy. The separation lasts 3 weeks, then we meet up, I’m already talking about moving country etc and he suddenly asks “ok, how can we fix this?” He moves back in and we carry on as if nothing had happened – biggest mistake ever in hindsight.
However, something bothers me about what made him walk out. I search his laptop for the first time when he pops out to the store one day shortly after our reconciliation. I find an email from an Australian woman who works in a company next door to his (they are both in the yachting business and based at a marina). Their company offices are next door to each other.
I know they are friends but I guess I didn’t know just how friendly they were. She is married with twins, only about 8 years old. We are acquaintances (we are part of an expat community and everyone knows everyone) and it’s an open secret that her marriage is desperately unhappy and has been for some time. My WAH and I have even talked in the past about what a dick her husband seems to be… Ha. Anyway, at this stage in the proceedings, she is moving back to Australia with her husband and kids.
Back to my husband’s laptop: I find nothing incriminating at all APART from one email from this woman that simply says: “I’m sorry for making a fool of myself xxx” He has replied: “You didn’t make a fool of yourself at all xxx”
And that’s it. I sit there staring at the exchange, wondering what the hell it is about. It was written in JUNE 2021, days before she is moving back to Australia. By the time I see it, it is July and she has left.
The day before she left, I bumped into her at our local beach while walking my dog. I haven’t seen the email yet and genuinely have zero suspicions and this encounter only came back to me about a week ago. I called her name to say hi. She turned around and I kid you not, she JUMPED when she saw it was me. She looked as though she’d seen a ghost. I asked her if she was okay and she composed herself pretty quickly, said hi and moved off. I wondered why she’d looked so scared of me but, unable to find a reason, I dismissed it and forgot about it.
After she has left, my husband walks out on me for the first time (the 3 week period referred to above). After his return is when I find the email from her. I wait a couple of days, then just ask my husband outright if anything has happened between them. He is cool as a cucumber, says no, they’re just friends. I totally believe him. I then rationalize it, telling myself that at the time she wrote it, she was preparing to leave this country after 15 years living here, it must have been emotional – she may have got upset about it, maybe even cried while at work and my husband probably comforted her, put his arm around her. That’s why she emailed after to apologise for making a fool of herself. That’s how I dealt with it. Then I put it out of my head – after all she was now gone, back in Australia.
Okay, so that was the backstory from July 2021.
In JULY of this year, while on one of our lunch “dates” he’s talking about his job, etc. then casually says “anyway, I won’t have to do that part of the job anymore as M (Australian woman) will be doing that.” I am instantly confused. I say I don’t understand, is she now working for his company from Australia? He says no, she is back here.
I am dumbstruck. After relocating back to her home country with husband and kids, a huge move, she is suddenly BACK? And not just back, she is now working with my husband. I feel the hairs stand up on the back of my neck and I ask him why he had never mentioned that she had returned.
The gaslighting begins. He points at me and says, slightly hysterically, “because of this! Because I knew you’d get like this!” Believe it or not, I INSTANTLY believe him. I tell myself I’m being unreasonable, crazy, imagining things. The power of gaslighting.
OCTOBER 1: As I was saying, he’s asleep in bed and I’m digesting the news our friend has given me – that he told her he has no intention of getting back with me. I start to wonder if he was lying to me about wanting to fix our marriage, what else has he been lying about? Back I go to his laptop. There, I find an email, dated September 5, so nearly a month old, from my husband to this Australian woman. The subject line is “Last one xxx”. In the email is a Word doc. I open it. It is 7 pages of his sexual fantasies involving her, him, and some other anonymous younger woman. It ends with “this is the last one I will write xxx” which is written in red font.
I won’t go into how I felt – I’m sure you can guess. I go into our bedroom where he is blissfully snoring away. I turn all the lights on, jump on top of him and start screaming at him. Total breakdown, hysterical, I have entered trauma. I kick him out, screaming “how long have you been f*cking her?” etc. He starts screaming back that he has never “f*cked her” etc. He leaves.
It is now 2.00am and I am awake pretty much the rest of the night, talking to friends and family (in my home country, which is hours behind here). I also forward the email to her husband and to my husband’s parents (yeah, I know, I shouldn’t have but I was in crazy mode). I copy the OW and my WAH.
Two days later, OW asks to meet me. We do. I ask her to be completely honest with me, woman to woman, and tell me what’s been going on. She agrees. When I ask, she tells me she has no recollection of writing the “sorry for making a fool of myself” email, has no idea what it was about. I sense she is lying. I ask her when it all started. She explains that they’ve been very good friends for many years. I say I know that (although I confess I would never have described them as very good friends, just “friends”. Guess I didn’t know.) She says after she left for Australia they continued to stay in touch and that gradually the communication “drifted into the inappropriate”.
I ask how he had ended up writing sexual fantasies for her and how many times he had done so. She says he sent about 3 stories like the one I saw (that was all I found in his email that night by the way, I suspect everything else was deleted but he’d neglected to delete this last one – his downfall). She told me, “to be honest, I think it was just some sort of release for him. I used to just delete them.”
She then put her head in hands and said “I have not behaved honorably either”, then told me that after she got back from Australia in July this year, that they had kissed. She told me it had only happened once (my husband subsequently told me – without knowing her answer – that it had happened “6, 7, 8 times”.) She told me she had returned from Australia as she was very unhappy in her job there and trying to find another one, when my WAH told her there was a job in his company.
I asked her why he had written “this is the last one I will write” on the story he sent her. Was it because she’d asked him to stop? She said no, it was because he’d decided he wanted to save his marriage. She told me that after he sent that email to her on Sept 5, he had stopped contacting her.
Eventually she sent him a message asking if she’d done something to upset her and he replied saying no. She said he told her he wanted to fix things with me. I told her I’d seen very little evidence of that from him and she said he frequently told her he was confused about what he wanted and changed his mind from day to day. She then insisted she herself was hoping he and I would be able to fix things. WTF…
SINCE THEN In my immediate rage after the discovery, I decided my marriage was over, there was no hope etc. Since then, my WAH and I have met a few times and talked. He told me it was an emotional affair (plus kissing and sexting) – she was/is in a very bad marriage, my WAH was unhappy in his (plus he’s in MLC but obviously denies that). It was the perfect storm of two unhappy souls thrown together – she got the male attention she craved and wasn’t getting from her husband and my WAH got his ego massaged (he told me, “she listens to me without judgement” – unlike me obviously).
Of course now I suspect that her email from over a year ago, before she left for Australia (“sorry for making a fool of myself”) is most likely a reference to the fact that she made a move on him somehow, probably kissed him. It explains why, when she saw me at the beach days later, she looked like she’d seen a ghost. It also explains why he suddenly walked out on me shortly after she left for Australia. He’d suddenly been hit on by someone else – he didn’t have to stay in his unhappy marriage, there were other options out there!
He shows very, very little remorse – he mainly feels sorry for himself and the fact that most of his friends and family are now furious with him - and seems incapable of empathy or understanding my pain. He insists he did want to fix our marriage but it’s too late now, he’s totally screwed up so there’s no point. (Right, because that makes sense.)
He won’t answer any of my questions about the details (where did you kiss her, how many times, etc) I feel I need details to heal but am resigned to never getting them – or at least not getting them anytime soon. I asked him if I was in right in my theory that she kissed him before leaving for Australia. He got flustered and said no, then got more flustered and said “it was just a goodbye kiss”. He is clearly lying.
Over the course of a week or so, I moved from rage to realising I still want to save my marriage. Their little affair is over – when I met with OW, she told me her husband wants to move them all back to Australia as he was not happy returning here anyway. However, I have not heard any more about such a move since then. So, she still works with my WAH and while I do believe the affair is over, it was essentially very much an emotional connection and so, that deep friendship is still there. To me, that’s worse and far more painful than an affair that was just about sex. Apparently, he talked to her about our marriage; she told me he felt he couldn’t talk to me. The betrayal cuts so deeply – I would have never disrespected him by discussing our marriage with others.
Anyway! Once I moved from rage to “I want to save my marriage” I did ALL THE WRONG THINGS. And then I did some more of them. The begging, the pleading, the crying, the sending articles, the sending videos, sharing podcasts. (Side note: my WAH has just gone out and bought a big red shiny motorbike. Yeah, no MLC here, move along…)
Now something else has started in the last few days: sexting. I started it, I admit, but he responds. We’ve had very sexually-charged conversations about fantasies, etc. in which he is a very active participant – it is not just me driving these. The only reason I mention this is that for years, he has not seen me in a sexual light AT ALL. He even said to me in a message just yesterday that he feels he didn’t know me and my sexual desires at all. I responded that he didn’t and left it at that.
We have met up occasionally but he gets angry if I try to talk about the marriage. And so I am back here today because I have decided enough is enough. From today, it’s the LRT for me. I will no longer instigate contact – EVER. I will not suggest meeting up – EVER. If I never hear from him again, I have my answer.
It helps me to see a physical representation of my progress so I have made myself a calendar, stuck to the fridge, for every day from now until mid-April. That will be the one-year anniversary of BD. Now, I am not talking about no contact, I am talking about ME not initiating contact. If he does (and I suspect that won’t happen for a long time, if at all) I will reply – not too much, just enough. You guys know the drill.
With my calendar, every evening I will put a big red X across that date if I’ve managed to go the whole day without initialing contact. It will be so difficult at first but I am hoping it will get easier. By April, the idea is that, thanks to GAL and allowing myself time to heal, I will be in a much, much stronger position. And if there has been no improvement in our situation by then, if he has not been reaching out or giving any indication of feeling differently about our marriage, then I file for divorce.
That’s the plan. I am so sorry about the length of this. I’ll be amazed if anyone reads it. Thank you so much.
Me:52 WAH/MLCer:54 T:8 years M:5 years Kids: None BD/Move out day: 4/16/22 Emotional affair discovery: 10/01/22
Reeling, you must feel so used. I’m so sorry you’ve been through all of this.
I think you need professional help. You have been on a huge rollercoaster. You said yourself that you would sob for days with uncontrollable grief. Now you’ve jumped on him in the middle of the night and screamed at him?
I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve it… he absolutely does. But it’s not appropriate behaviour. If he decides he wants to be with her, you could find he slaps a restraining order on you. You do NOT want to make things worse than they already are.
Everyone is capable of healing, and I can’t tell you how that will look - ie whether you end up together or not.
But I’m pretty sure you’re not going to have the skills to negotiate this emotionally on your own, especially if you go your own ways. I’d highly recommend you seek out some professional IC to work through a lot of this.
Oh, and you need to get an STD test and protect yourself. I wouldn’t believe a word either of them say about having only kissed.
You’ll be okay one day… it’s just going to take a while. Just breathe… and take it one day at a time.
Thank you Kind for taking the time to read such a long post and for replying. I neglected to mention I have found a wonderful therapist (online - very little available where I am. This therapist is in the US and online works just fine. If I could afford it, I would talk to her every day - she is wonderful and I come off every call feeling super charged with strength).
Yes, I jumped on him in the bed and started screaming. You must understand this was minutes after my entire world blew up. Up until that point, I had reached the stage where I was CONVINCED we were reconciling - I’d told everyone, including my 84 year old father. Then BANG. I felt like such a fool and SO betrayed.
I had NO IDEA there was anyone else until this point - suddenly, my entire world, everything I believed, including my future, was blown to pieces. So yes, I went ape-sh*t. That was weeks ago and I’ve forgiven myself for what was a reaction to severe trauma.
He does not want to be with her and is not with her, but they work together and yes, they’re very good friends.
For now, I am detaching from the entire situation. I cannot continue as was. The pursuer will become the distancer and I plan to give that all I’ve got.
I’ve just been for a run, for the first time in months. Starting the couch to 5k program - it felt good to run, listening to loud music, feeling suddenly FREE from the sh*tshow.
Not saying I won’t backslide and end up crying my eyes out every now and again - I’m sure I will. But I am determined to find my strength once more and get back to the strong, happy, confident person I was when he walked into my life.
No longer will I initiate contact with him and allow his response (or lack thereof) to dictate my mood and emotions for the entire day.
I am taking my power back. I know it won’t always be easy. But damn, right now it feels good.
Thank you again.
Me:52 WAH/MLCer:54 T:8 years M:5 years Kids: None BD/Move out day: 4/16/22 Emotional affair discovery: 10/01/22
Regarding the affair / other woman...I put together a timeline of comments on your (relatively) short thread. I don't mean this to hurt you - you're certainly not alone in thinking there was no affair, as there are countless others - but rather to inform / demonstrate an example of / help other Newbies on what is unfortunately an extremely common occurrence here:
Originally Posted by Reeling (7/23/22)
One thing I must say up front is there is no other woman. 100% on that.
Originally Posted by Kind18 (7/24/22)
Also, regarding your 100% certainty that there’s no-one else - I’ve been around this site and several others for three years now, and have heard that hundreds of times from Newcomers. But in 99% of those cases, there is someone else. They hide it very well. They lie, they cheat, they cover their tracks.
Originally Posted by Traveler (7/24/22)
Originally Posted by Kind
But in 99% of those cases, there is someone else.
It’s not that high—there was no AP in my situation and several others I could name at the time of BD—but at least 80% who insist there’s no AP end up discovering one. Challenge your assumption, especially if it’s based on words or you think he couldn’t find time, but don’t fall deep into paranoia if you’re certain that’s not the case or at least not why he left.
Originally Posted by kml (7/24/22)
Traveler - the percentage is a little lower when women leave, but when men leave the odds of an OW are well over 95%. Yes, I thought my exH wasn’t cheating when I first came here too! (Silly me!!!)
Originally Posted by BL42 (7/24/22)
As others have mentioned, brace yourself for the likelihood there is another party involved. Whether the percentage is 80 or 99, the point is in the vast majority of cases here it ends up coming to light at some point that the spouse leaving is/was having an affair...even when the LBS swears up and down it's not possible.
Originally Posted by Reeling (7/24/22)
So, honestly, I know I sound naïve and may never convince some of you, but there truly, honestly is no other woman. I am fully aware there may be eventually. Right now, there is not. I have so many reasons for saying this and won't go into them all.
Originally Posted by Reeling (7/25/22)
There are so many reasons I know there is no OW but I don’t want to make my entire response consist of me pointing out why there is no OW. There truly isn’t. This is not me being naiive; this is what his very good friends have also told me.
A few months later...
Originally Posted by Reeling (12/22/22)
For yes, yes indeed folks, there was an emotional affair. For those of you who’ve read my story, you will see how much I denied the existence of someone else when I first came on here. I am here to say I was wrong and those of you who suggested it were right.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
Reeling, I'm so sorry this happened to you. I'm glad that you have decided to not initiate contact with your H. It is a difficult thing to do, but I do think it gives the LBS a sense of control in a crazy situation.
Originally Posted by Reeling
She said he told her he wanted to fix things with me. I told her I’d seen very little evidence of that from him and she said he frequently told her he was confused about what he wanted and changed his mind from day to day. She then insisted she herself was hoping he and I would be able to fix things. WTF…
This must have been very hard to hear. It seems that it does show just how lost the WAS is, though. In this case, it's not just your foggy-brained WAH—the OW herself is a confused WAS confused who evidently sought out the affair as a bandaid for her own issues.
It's cold comfort, but from what the OW is saying, it seems that your H was thinking about you a lot during the affair...
Originally Posted by Reeling
He shows very, very little remorse – he mainly feels sorry for himself and the fact that most of his friends and family are now furious with him - and seems incapable of empathy or understanding my pain. He insists he did want to fix our marriage but it’s too late now, he’s totally screwed up so there’s no point. (Right, because that makes sense.)
This self-absorbed, defeatist behavior seems very common among WAS in the reconciliation process, from what I've read on these boards. It's seems very painful for the WAS to face the destruction they've caused. They're weak and scared of rejection. But they might be able to draw strength from their LBS.
Originally Posted by Reeling
He won’t answer any of my questions about the details (where did you kiss her, how many times, etc) I feel I need details to heal but am resigned to never getting them – or at least not getting them anytime soon. I asked him if I was in right in my theory that she kissed him before leaving for Australia. He got flustered and said no, then got more flustered and said “it was just a goodbye kiss”. He is clearly lying.
Why do you think you need to know the details to heal? Do you really want those images in your head? The questions seem motivated by your (very justified!) anger. Meanwhile, your H is not ready to be honest. At some point, it probably would be necessary to talk about the A for your (and his) healing, but I imagine it's a series of conversations better conducted in a calmer state—and with professional guidance.
