It's progress, not perfection...

[Ginger1]

The question is ….

What is healed “enough”? How is that defined?

[bttrfly]

I can only speak for myself, so this is my own definition, a standard I hold for myself: being whole as an individual. not looking for a relationship to fill a void, because there's no void to fill.

Put another way:

I know that I trust myself.

I know that trusting myself means that regardless of external circumstances, I can take care of myself, my inner self, in ways that I couldn't before BD.

Betrayal is a biotch, but the biggest betrayal is when we betray ourselves - our values, our instincts, our inner voice. I don't claim to have all the answers or even some. I just know that I trust myself more than I ever have, and I won't betray myself, my values, my inner guide.

I don't need any external validation. Nice to have, not necessary to my existence.

I don't need a romantic relationship to fill anything - I'm complete as I am.

To me, that means if someone compelling comes along, I'd probably be open to exploring possibilities with that person. Why the probably qualifier? Because I've so bloody much on my plate for the next two months I don't really see any way to ease open time to do something justice; keeps me focused on my path as a solo artist.

[Ginger1]

^^^ definitely a fair assessment of what works for you or doesn’t for that matter

I agree, trying to fill one void with something unrelated never works.

That is not something healthy to throw back there in a dating market .

The void of emotional romantic intimacy should only be filled by the same. I’m pretty whole in most areas of my life. Do I feel a void in my romantic life? Absolutely! Is it because I need external validation from others or to make me feel whole overall I’m other areas I don’t ? Absolutely not.

For me, and others I know, emotional and romantic intimacy and partnership is a void that can’t be filled by a new hobby. For me, this is my healthy stage to get out there. Am I perfect? No. Do I have it all figured out in the dating world? No way. But am I filling the dating pool with someone who hasn’t “healed enough “? I don’t think so.

And I I agree, it’s totally different for everyone.

And E is a very intelligent woman who knows where she falls on that spectrum. Because it definitely isn’t the same for everyone

[Mach1]

The question is ….

What is healed “enough”? How is that defined?

Rhetorical ?

Or would like my answer ?

[Ginger1]

No, not rhetorical . I would love to know what everyone’s view of healed enough to pursue a relationship again. Or even to just date

[Mach1]

First off....this is MY answer, and everyone is different....

I think that if one has to ask if they are ready, typically, they aren't....

After my Divorce, I spent a lot of time in my own head, dealing with my issues, my responsibility to the part I played in my failed marriage. Gave it plenty of headspace, and dealt with things accordingly.

What I also did, was to make a template, or checklist, of everything that I would like in my next relationship.

I got to a point where I was much like E here, I knew the right words, I was pretty sure that I was where I wanted to be, yet I wasn't sure because I was never really up against those things.

I got to a point where I started to become sure, and trusting myself again, that I wouldn't fall back into old patterns and behaviors.

The last hurdle was forgiving myself, that I wouldn't be that person again....

And I know that ^^^ is deep, probably deeper than it needs to be for this...


Eventually, I stopped asking the questions about it. Was I ready, wasn't I...

It didn't matter as long as I was true to myself.

What also happened, was that I just wanted to live my life, didn't matter what else happened. I wasn't looking for anyone, wasn't hoping for anyone, I just wanted to have fun, and enjoy living again.

Being healthy and whole was more important.

I gave up all of that control up to the Universe, and whatever happened, would happen.

And when I met K, I wasn't looking at all....

It just kinda happened, because I was ready to accept fully what I wanted and would need to be in a relationship again.

It actually went against what I wanted, which was to just be me again...

If someone would have asked, I would have possibly said...'I don't know'.

Yet it wouldn't have been a 'yes' or a 'no'. I really hadn't thought about it much for a long time.


I get that what I did, isn't for everyone....that's the path that I took ....

And that is what drives my advice...



If you have to ask, chances are, you aren't....



So I guess to summarize, since I seem to be rambling a bit....

Trust, Forgiveness, making sure I don't bring any old baggage with me...??

Healing fully so that one is ready for whatever comes their way ??


Knowing fully who I was, so that I could recognize Red Flags early on ? (not that I had to worry about those in hindsight). Yet I would have if they were to have existed.


I guess the best thing I did, was to make that template for what I would and wouldn't accept in a relationship...

I would hold that template up against anyone that would, or could possibly enter my life.


That ^ was actually harder than I thought it would be, thanks though...

I need a nap....




Bottom line....?


I stand by what I posted earlier... ^^^^

[AndrewP]

No, not rhetorical . I would love to know what everyone’s view of healed enough to pursue a relationship again. Or even to just date

This is certainly a good part of the answer

I agree, trying to fill one void with something unrelated never works.

Additionally it's also where you are no longer fighting "the last war". Where your former partner, the good, the bad, the whatever has no bearing on the person you might match up with. Certainly learning lessons like "hoarders can be difficult to live with" is important of course.

In my admittedly small experience with dating I have found that what some people are looking for is a more acceptable version of the person they used to have in their lives. In both cases the person I was dating tried to change my behaviour and lifestyle to match what they were used to. I'll keep buttoning up my shirt and not wearing gold chains, and it will be me that writes cards and picks out presents for my own children - thank you very much

And at least from my point of view there's more out to the question than just "healed enough". There's also the willingness to open yourself up to another, to take risks and to have the "space" in your life that could be occupied by another. For me, I'm quite sure that I'm "healed enough" - but those last 3 questions hold me back still.

[DnJ]

An interesting discussion on healed and whole.

I’ll throw my two cents into the pot, based upon my journey and viewpoints of self.


Trusting in your self and your beliefs and convictions play a big part. A really big part. And trust is earned, just like it is earned from someone else. It is earned from respect. Self respect and self trust, leads to faith of self.

For me the first stage towards healed and whole, was knowing. The understanding of those values and beliefs I am strengthening and I aspire to. Oddly, the second step was feeling it. Emotionally connecting to trusting and such. A mind and heart union as it were. Lastly, is believing it. I liken it to the soul. This is one’s faith in self. Beyond knowing. Beyond feeling. And encompassing both.

Everyone sees the world through their own lens. A person who has difficultly extending trust to others, has difficult trusting themselves. They may know the trust they are after, yet at this time not feel or have faith within themselves. Respect, compassion, forgiveness, loyalty, etc. all similarly extended, or not.

The principles of self shine outward. One is open to others. Has faith in their fellow man. And can risk gain. A healed person will be ok when/if they get hurt. They do not fear being destroyed again. There is a strength in such knowledge and faith.

There are no voids that need to be filled. And yes, I mean “need”. Nature abhors a vacuum or void. After bomb drop, half my life was ripped away. The remaining chunk was smashed and destroyed. I was like most who find themselves here upon these shores, I was hurt, lost, standing within the wreckage, and had such a void within me. A void which demanded attention.

Detachment, letting go, indifference, withdrawal, compassion, forgiving, etc, all steps along a path of rebuilding. Steps which addressed and assuaged my void. Steps of grief and finding acceptance and forgiveness and such. One is not whole if one has a void within.

Life provides plenty of feedback for those who wish to, or are willing to hear and heed. My analytical mindset and technical predisposition melded well with the most fortunate advice/suggestions I received here. Counterintuitive positive actions lead to positive tangible feedback. Which lead to understanding and further positive steps and actions bringing about more feedback.

At times, life’s feedback was negative. I hazard to say negative, for it’s heeding that feedback that lead to learning and growing. In that sense, negative is really quite positive in effect, when one listens and heeds.

In the end, becoming healed and whole, shifts one’s perspective. And one’s situation and reality is defined by one’s perspective.

D

[kml]

I think it’s deceptively simple, this question of when yo date.
- you should be sure that you’ll never take your ex back even if they came crawling - because it’s terribly unfair to a new partner to dump them for your ex.


- you need to be healed enough that you can make healthy choices in terms of whom you date. It’s too easy to grab the first thing to fill that void, or to repeat old patterns that led to you picking your ex in the first place.

In my case, I’d been DBing my marriage for years, had one successful reconciliation after his affair, and when he finally left, I was truly done. I had peace in my heart that I had done everything possible to save my marriage, and that I would never take him back under any circumstances. So I started dating a few months after my ex left, and my first relationship was so healing. It actually showed me so many things that had been missing with my ex.

The new guy was a father who put his adult children first (my narcissist ex did not). The sex was even better than with my exH (and we’d had a pretty great sex life). He didn’t care about my imperfections or normal body functions the way my ex did. (I still remember this boyfriend offering me a bowl of ice cream, which I tried to decline on the basis that I’m a little lactose intolerant and it would make me fart. His response was to encourage me to enjoy it and tell me he didn’t care if I farted ALL NIGHT. I still love him for that! My ex was mortified if I ever passed the tiniest bit of gas in his presence! )

And even though the new relationship was no fairy tale romance - he was a Love Avoidant who eventually dumped me when his old high school girlfriend reconnected with him - I’m ever so grateful to him for showing me that there was life and love after divorce. And we are still great friends 14 years later.

[Elbereth]

Hello everyone. I read and mulled over all your messages, and today I spoke with my IC and discussed many of them with her as well. Thank you so much for this dialog...it's definitely a tough topic in that there really are no set rules around this. And it's different for everyone.

What I've come to understand is that it isn't about me trusting someone else as much as it's about me trusting myself - trusting myself to be a good judge of character, trusting that I can take care of myself and my emotional health.

I am not sure I trust myself to be the best judge of character. That is why I want to take things slow and have a coach as well as my IC to support me with the process of trying. I've had very few romantic relationships, so I'm not well practiced. I can't learn how to ride a bike just by reading about it. I have to try to do it to learn and practice. However, I trust that I would survive another bad experience. I know I can take care of myself...and I know that my emotional health is my responsibility.

We all come out of this with scars and issues. It’s how we recognize them, what we learn from them etc. no one has these issues perfectly worked through. And if people didn’t date until they were, we would probably never date. Unless those issues have the capability of hurting a dating partner, then, well, I agree with your IC. She probably sees more of fears, rather than issues you need to work through on the dating front. The 2 can be confused often. And the best thing to do for our fears is work through them.

This is a good point. I'm making effort to be a better human and partner. I'm also making effort to find someone who is also on that same path. I don't see how that mindset is one that would cause harm to others. The only partners that might be uncomfortable with where I am at are those that are not trying to be a better human or do not want to be open with feelings and struggles. And I don't want that kind of person in my life.

The question is …. What is healed “enough”? How is that defined?

I hope to never stop growing...does that mean I shouldn't date until I am done? Because if it is, I'll never be done.

I can only speak for myself, so this is my own definition, a standard I hold for myself: being whole as an individual. not looking for a relationship to fill a void, because there's no void to fill.

Put another way: I know that I trust myself.

I know that trusting myself means that regardless of external circumstances, I can take care of myself, my inner self, in ways that I couldn't before BD.

Betrayal is a biotch, but the biggest betrayal is when we betray ourselves - our values, our instincts, our inner voice. I don't claim to have all the answers or even some. I just know that I trust myself more than I ever have, and I won't betray myself, my values, my inner guide.

I've grown to understand over time that I did betray myself, my intuition, my self-respect, etc. I allowed myself to put my XH first. I ignored a lot of things that were happening. I've forgiven myself for what I realized I've done. And I intend to be different and never betray myself again.

The void of emotional romantic intimacy should only be filled by the same. I’m pretty whole in most areas of my life. Do I feel a void in my romantic life? Absolutely! Is it because I need external validation from others or to make me feel whole overall I’m other areas I don’t? Absolutely not.

For me, and others I know, emotional and romantic intimacy and partnership is a void that can’t be filled by a new hobby. For me, this is my healthy stage to get out there. Am I perfect? No. Do I have it all figured out in the dating world? No way. But am I filling the dating pool with someone who hasn’t “healed enough “? I don’t think so.

I agree with this. Truth is there pool will always be filled with unhealed people. My 'job' is to be my honest self and to seek out others that are on a journey of self-development and 'liberated love'. Just because the pool is filled with bad apples, doesn't mean there are not good ones there as well. Or that I need to be perfect before I have a 'right' to date. I am not seeking 'any decent relationship'. My goal is a long-term mutually healthy relationship. And, there is no replacement for romantic connection. No matter how full my life is, nothing can fill that except a romantic connection.

The last hurdle was forgiving myself, that I wouldn't be that person again....

This! Yes! I didn't deserve what my XH did to me, but I also allowed a lot of his poor behavior's towards me as well. And I had a few of my own that I am working on (codependency and people-pleasing to name the big ones)... I've accepted and forgiven myself and I'm growing and learning so that I will never be that person again.

Additionally it's also where you are no longer fighting "the last war". Where your former partner, the good, the bad, the whatever has no bearing on the person you might match up with. Certainly learning lessons like "hoarders can be difficult to live with" is important of course.

In my admittedly small experience with dating I have found that what some people are looking for is a more acceptable version of the person they used to have in their lives. In both cases the person I was dating tried to change my behaviour and lifestyle to match what they were used to. I'll keep buttoning up my shirt and not wearing gold chains, and it will be me that writes cards and picks out presents for my own children - thank you very much crazy

And at least from my point of view there's more out to the question than just "healed enough". There's also the willingness to open yourself up to another, to take risks and to have the "space" in your life that could be occupied by another.

I no longer want my ex and I want a relationship that is so much different than what mine was, that I do not think I will be searching for his replacement. He tried to change me a lot. I want a different kind of love this time around. And discussing the dating idea shows I'm open to it and thus ready for it.

For me the first stage towards healed and whole, was knowing. The understanding of those values and beliefs I am strengthening and I aspire to. Oddly, the second step was feeling it. Emotionally connecting to trusting and such. A mind and heart union as it were. Lastly, is believing it. I liken it to the soul. This is one’s faith in self. Beyond knowing. Beyond feeling. And encompassing both.

Everyone sees the world through their own lens. A person who has difficultly extending trust to others, has difficult trusting themselves. They may know the trust they are after, yet at this time not feel or have faith within themselves. Respect, compassion, forgiveness, loyalty, etc. all similarly extended, or not.

The principles of self shine outward. One is open to others. Has faith in their fellow man. And can risk gain. A healed person will be ok when/if they get hurt. They do not fear being destroyed again. There is a strength in such knowledge and faith.

I think what I have discovered is that I always knew who I was at my core...I just let others define or tell me who I am in order to please them. I feel lost in where I am going...but I'm just coming out of all the things holding me back. And hell, the future I planned on was taken from me. So of course I'm still figuring it out. I'm forward-looking even if I don't have all the answers yet. I'm in the discovery phase...that's a better way to describe it. I do not want to be destroyed again. Call that fear if you like. But to me, it's the knowledge that drives me to become a better me, to learn how to have better relationships, and to seek someone else who has similar values, character, goals, etc. And I already survived twice and I know I'd survive if it happens again.

I haven't settled into my new apartment fully, and I'm deep into a training course, so I'm not in some rush to start dating and I'm not rushed to fill some void. But my heart and mind are open to the idea and I'm leaning toward making a conscious effort with dating in the coming months. I welcome any additional thoughts you all might have for me.

El