Cheaters gonna cheat

[Ginger1]

Previous Thread:

Single tired female too


I’ve been reading everyone’s feedback and I thank you for it.

This is going to be extremely difficult. There are so many moving parts. Absolutely my daughter will not be the one to saw anything to her stepmother. But I do understand that she could feel like an unwilling accomplice . She’s expressed having her and her dad know and having the 3 of them together would be uncomfortable .

I am afraid of how her dad is going to react. I really am. He’s going to deny it he’s going to freak out on me . I don’t know what to do if that happens

I’m emotionally exhausted. I didn’t sleep last night . My mind won’t stop . I can make a script of how I would like it to go, but I know it won’t go that way. This is a huge heavy weight in her. And a huge heavy weight on me. I’m really anxious . I just can’t see this going well at all.

I went through it for me and now I’m going through it for them. The universe is relentless. All I can hope for is my kid comes out of this as unscathed as possible. I’m going to do my best to make sure of that, even if it doesn’t work out that way

[Cadet]

(((((HUGS)))))))))

[kml]

You could do it via FaceTime or Skype, with exH and his wife on one end and you on the other. That protects your from any immediate physical acting out. Just be sure you’re far away from your daughter if you do.

[Elbereth]

((((Ginger))))

[Treasur]

I’m an old poster who hasn’t been here in a long time, but I pop by occasionally to read. (Divorced, NC with anything bonkers and well now)

But I wanted to chip in on this issue, Ginger.

I am very sorry, first of all, that your xh has done this and for how distressing it is for you and little G. I am sorry that it is causing you even a moment of angst let alone sleepless nights. It’s amazing - and not in a good way - how some kinds of humans can create such chaos and disorder around them, isn’t it?

Seems to me that the No 1 priority is little G’s wellbeing and that this is the only thing you are responsible for. Wise of you to see that a third party IC might help her unpick what she wants to do and what is acceptable to her or not wrt to what she now knows about her father’s behaviour. And what a great job you have done with little G and the kind of relationship you have, Ginger, that she could tell you.

As I understood it, little G seems to have two main issues.....that she does not want to spend time with him/them carrying this important secret or feel responsible for what happens....and that she fears that her father will reject her when/if she tells him she knows. Is that right? Understandably, she may have some other feelings too about what kind of man her father is, about her stepmother’s feelings, about what he did all those years ago to you and her....those might take a bit of time to process ideally with support from a good IC and you....but the pressing big issue for her is carrying this secret bomb and how her father is going to react when/if she tells the truth?

This patch of my own life experience taught me, I think, two big lessons. The first is that being gaslit, by others or ourselves, is a terribly damaging insidious thing. The second is that agency matters and feeling that others support and validate our right to pin down what we need and act on it matters.

So it seems to me that the first step is to help little G put words to what is ok and not ok for her right now, to work out what her boundary is wrt to her father now she has facts that she did not have before. And you are the kind of parent who is well able to do that which is a blessing for little G.

Doing that though probably does mean being VERY clear in your own mind about what lives on your side of the street (and hers) and what does not. I know that over the years you have stepped up to have some kind of active extended family relationship with your xh and his wife believing this was best for your daughter. However, imho this leaves you more exposed to getting pulled into a bit of a dysfunctional triangle with put bluntly a couple of humans who harmed you and at best don’t share your values. Xh did what he did to you and very little G. And his wife, as an ow, was ok with having an affair with a man with a pregnant wife and/or small child. And those actions created a lot of tough practical consequences for you, Ginger, a harder life for you and little G than you might have wished. I’m not talking about any spirit of revenge, let me be clear, but I am saying that from the cheap seats the karmic mess of their relationship is absolutely not your job and it seems a bit skewed that you might even consider stepping into it even in a small way. Imho it’s not your responsibility, not your side of the street and not healthy for you or little G to even spend any mental headspace on it.

So again jmo but I think you should put aside any of those ‘owife has a right to know’ or ‘if I were her....’ thoughts. They may be true, but it’s not your job. Owife cheated with a man who cheats and betrays trust even with a small child in the mix; she got a husband who cheats. That is her life lesson to figure out and you owe her less than nothing.

So, lay down some of those moving parts, Ginger. They exist but they don’t belong to you.

Put simply, it seems likely that little G is going to want to say something to her father along the lines of I know x bc I saw why, i’m not comfortable with carrying this secret and spending time with you/owife and so, for the moment, I am not going to spend time with either of you. You can explain that to owife however you choose, the truth or not, but I am staying out of this mess. Full stop. Like you, I absolutely expect that your xh will react as cheaters do....that he will gaslight her, attack her, deny it or try to make her feel guilty or responsible.....which is why little G should not have that conversation face to face with him without support from you (if you feel able to be calm and objective) or an IC. Or why it might be better for her to communicate her boundary in writing.
And then both of you will need to stay out of the sandpit of the disordered when, entirely predictably, him or owife try to pull you into that particular triangle lol. So, you are probably going to need a new boundary with them too, Ginger.

It is horrible. But it isn’t as complicated as it feels, just deeply unpleasant. Little G knows a secret that has the potential to cause a lot of damage. But it isn’t her secret and she has good instincts that she doesn’t want to own it, that she wants to detach from it....ha ha, a DB child, great healthy survival instincts! Which means detaching from him and owife bc that is where the secret lives. At least for a while.

Your job is, as I see it, to help her figure out her boundary for herself and to find as straightforward and safe a way as possible to communicate it. Then to keep you and her, as far as you are able, away from any potential triangulation....let the cards fall where they may wrt to your xh and his wife and his wife’s best friend. (Good lord, it sounds like one of those Italian classic farces doesn’t it?) while you and little G focus on nice clean lovely things that are not mired in the BS of someone else’s farm. And that will also give little G a bit of time to process how she feels about the kind of man her father is in light of this new information.

Jmo, of course.
But I hope that I have made some small contribution from the cheap seats in helping your mind cut through the crappy wood to see the only really important tree which is in your sphere of influence.

[DnJ]

Well said Treasur.

Ginger, I successfully traverse the similar minefield that was placed before me. My kids’ Mom was no where close to as involved in their lives as little’s G’s Dad is in her’s, however take what you will and discard the rest.

It was not, and is not, my kids’ job or responsibility to the relationship between Mom and OM, or Mom and me. What mattered is how she treats them. I always communicated openly and honestly about anything they brought up. I didn’t hide or shield the situation and I did not pour gas upon the already burning and volatile events of their lives.

That speaks to forgiveness. My kids leant and then had to accept and forgive the person their Mom became (or maybe was). And yes, being they are half her, does place pressure upon them. They are also half me, and are loved and supported. And things turned out it would seem.

You read and walked beside me (off and on) and are familiar with my journey. I’ve shared lessons learned and mistakes made. Utilize as you see fit.

You and little G will do fine.

D

[BL42]

Ginger1,

How are you and your daughter doing?

Treasur's post was fantastic. Count me in with the folks who think your #1 responsibility is to your daughter and not ExH's W/OW. The complicating factor is because your daughter knows what she knows she feels torn between betraying her own factor and the guilt of covering up for him. I've thought about your sitch a good bit and lean towards having her work with an IC and then pulling her dad into a session.

One possibility I haven't seen mentioned...do you think ExH's current W/OW might already know about the affair? The solo trip certainly raised your eyebrows and you've suspected his cheating on her before. Perhaps she's noticed as well and is doing her own spying. It will come out eventually. Not sure the timing works, but that would certainly get little G off the hook so to speak. But maybe it's good life lesson she learn to speak up in her voice anyway.

Anyway...lots of folks thinking of you and wishing you the best navigating through this. You're a great mother and will help her through it, of that everyone here is certain.

[Cadet]

I’m an old poster who hasn’t been here in a long time, but I pop by occasionally to read.

Good to see you here Treasur

A great post as usual, of course I always know that you are full of wisdom and a great writer.

[bttrfly]

Ginger1,


One possibility I haven't seen mentioned...do you think ExH's current W/OW might already know about the affair? The solo trip certainly raised your eyebrows and you've suspected his cheating on her before. Perhaps she's noticed as well and is doing her own spying. It will come out eventually.

or perhaps they even have an open marriage ... no one ever really knows what goes on between a husband and wife.

[Ginger1]

Treasur,

First I want to thank you so much for that post. You absolutely understand where my mind is at right now . What my concerns are and how to approach them. I read it yesterday morning and me and my kid spent the day together and I couldn’t reply the way I wanted to. Better than any therapist I could run anything by, actually.

Sunday night when her dad texted her asking her to make Wednesday her night this week. She did start crying and having an anxiety attack again. She told him yes though .
Then yesterday we spent time together at the mall and such . She told me over lunch she has decided she doesn’t want to tell him she knows. She said she realized last night her fear comes from what would happen to their relationship if he knew she saw that. So she says she prefers not to say anything right now. She will go there with her grandma. She want things to just be “normal”

I told her I support this as long as she is comfortable and isn’t filled with anxiety when she goes there. I also told her honestly that this will likely come out on its own at some point and that might lead to some changes. She said she understood. She just doesn’t want to be that catalyst

I, of course want her to be just be comfortable . I also want him to suffer some consequences. But he never does

As far as his wife knowing ? I wouldn’t doubt she knows something is going on. However, I am almost positive she doesn’t know it’s her best friend I imagine that is not “allowed” in an open marriage agreement if there was even one.

As for me, I can’t even face talking to him right now. He wants to discuss schedules and I don’t even want to engage .

I’m just going to have to suck this all up