Stuck in limbo

[BL42]

Doug54,

I definitely feel like I'm in a place of strength now.

You sound stronger than most newcomers, which is good.

To be honest, I was ready to pull the rip cord on D about a month ago, but finances and me not wanting to be the one to leave, plus my IC posing some thoughts on my preparedness to do so made me pause.

Careful. Don't do anything rash. Do you know what you want? Filing for D rarely helps. Most here say you should focus/work on yourself, don't try to block anything D-wise but don't rush it along either. To be clear, I'm pro-marriage. It's definitely best for the kids, you, and W (imo) IF you two can get on the same page and work things out.

I also got caught up in the template for dealing with a MLC rather than focusing on the EA.

People told me - and I've seen advice to many others as well - don't try to diagnose your spouse; focus on yourself, not whether it's an "EA" or "MLC".

Perhaps after consulting with a lawyer I could get a separation agreement drawn up wherein I'm not considered abandoning the household, and live free with nearby family while the separation clock starts ticking.

Definitely consult an L before you move out. That's an absolute must.

Top concern would probably be getting the finances separated ahead of this breast augmentation procedure.

Definitely don't pay for her surgery. I think it must places an elective surgery like that right before separation/D would be her obligation, not yours, but again...consult an L.

I don't know if I really see a path to R at this point. In this day and age with smartphones, I feel I'll never be able to trust W again.

Trust hard to build and easy to destroy.

Part of my problem the last few months was that my brain would just play a loop of greatest hits when I thought about the relationship.

As is often said around here, many LBSs look at the marriage through rose colored glasses once BD hits and forget they were not all that happy in the marriage either.

Then I would consider the financial hit of D, effect on the children, and what the marriage currently looked like.

You should consider the kids. There's no doubt they're better off if their parents can work it out.

Here's an interesting tidbit that I'm almost embarrassed to admit. I met W while she was separated from her first husband.

Good you can be honest and transparent about it. The timeline certainly made it questionable. Perhaps some karma coming back at you.

It was an abusive relationship with the high school / college boyfriend which resulted in a shotgun wedding.

Do you know it was abusive? Or were you told that. I know my ExW told her family and friends that I beat her down emotionally to a 0. I absolutley did not. My ExW told people ludcrious things like I refused to let the kids eat pancakes (one morning at 5am when she was leaving the house early to work to meet up with her AP I told them no pancakes this morning) I also know my ExMIL told people my ExFIL was abusive and I strongly suspect he was not. The point is...you can't really trust what they tell you. They're not going to say the father of their young children who they're leaving is a standup guy...they need to justify what they're doing.

In retrospect, a clear monkeybranching scenario.

Is their father in the picture? You must have an impression of him after 19 years of helping to raise his kids. Is he has bad as she described when she left him for you?

But it certainly wasn't in the territory of the narcissism and control stuff she tried to throw out there as justification after sessions with her IC. Again, definitely trying to validate leaving in her own head.

Right. They need to justify their actions.

BL42, would you mind giving me a Cliffs notes version of how your situation shook out? I'm sure you have threads somewhere but I'm still making my way through Steve's. Thanks again.

WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - Don't Want Divorce
Married 7 years, together 9 with a 1yo daughter and 4yo son when two weeks after a family vacation to Disney now-ExW says she wants to separate. I find out the next day she's in an EA with a married coworker which turns into PA and for the next several months beg/plead/try talks and put the kids to bed/get them up in the morning while she's "working late" and "working early" inlcuding leaving our son's birthday party early to meet up with AP. The affair ends when their employer and OM1's W find out, and I naively ask her to keep the family together (again), only to find out later she's already lined up OM2, and moves out/files for D/moves him in with my kids in a matter of a month. 2.5 years post-BD, 1 year officially divorced.

I'm more involved with the kids this summer (I certainly wasn't absentee in any way before, but I've taken more initiative lately to give W "space").

Great. Make sure being a good father is your #1 priority. They deserve that.

I've gone to a gym for years and don't have a dad body at all, so the 2.0 Doug won't be going from schlub to physical specimen.

Good. You're ahead of the game.

I've reconnected with old friends and have a fun reunion planned with a college buddy in a couple weeks.

Awesome. Sounds like you're doing all the right stuff Doug54.

I need to get into some new stuff though, to re-forge my identity. W really curtailed my social life early in the marriage.

Very common, but self-reflection...you allowed that to happen. Make sure to focus on yourself and your interests in the future.

I was wondering - if the line about "you'll never be more attractive than when she thinks she might lose you" applies, what incentive do I have to be the one to leave?

People tend to want things they can't have, and tend to try to hold onto things that are slipping away from them. It doesn't mean you should move out and divorce her. It means detach and start focusing on improving yourself and making your life great. If she senses your calm, cool, collected and are starting to detach she might just start wondering...

[Doug54]

Thanks for the detailed response, BL42. I read your thread and I'm sorry about how things unfolded for you. It does sound like you're a really great and involved dad, though.

If you or anyone else can offer advice here, I'd be most appreciative. I'm essentially treading water with W in what would appear to be a normal home situation (to anyone on the outside looking in). However, as I mentioned in my initial post, she's months deep in an EA in which I know few details. I think she is looking for a soft landing in the form of getting a better job and one of us moving out. No indication at all from what I've snooped (bad, I know) into messages to friends, etc. that this is a local dude or someone that would become a reality once we split up. Who knows.

We're going to a MC this week that supposedly helps work on "transitions" as part of their practice, in addition to regular MC stuff. I'm curious if W will actually bring up any concrete plan suggesting I move out for a bit. Of course, I could refuse, but I do have family nearby. "Believe nothing they say and half of what they do" - she's been wishy washy in the past about this topic and how it would uproot the family, so I don't know.

My dilemma is that it's clearly best for the kids if we both remain in the house for now. We're not fighting and it's a steadier presence for one parent to be home while the other is out somewhere. On the other hand, I'm not thrilled with the cake-eating and time W spends at night clearly on her phone with the EA partner. There's just no doubt. If I were to pre-emptively say in the MC session that I'm tired of it, I'm done, I'm getting a separation agreement drawn up, separating the checking account, and moving out with family (and then do so), it would be a big reality check for her. If there were ever any hope for R down the road, it would be kick-started by this. To be honest, I don't know if the trust deficit that now exists could ever be restored. But me getting out of the house would help further my detachment, which is currently coming along.

I know it seems to be generally recommended that the cheater and the one who wants the D should be the one to go, but she has no local options and has stated in the past that she wouldn't leave the kids. Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions!

[LH19]

If I were to pre-emptively say in the MC session that I'm tired of it, I'm done, I'm getting a separation agreement drawn up, separating the checking account, and moving out with family (and then do so), it would be a big reality check for her.

I actually think that would play into exactly what she wants and would love you to move out.

[BL42]

Doug54,

she's months deep in an EA in which I know few details.

Hate to say this, but chances are it's longer / deeper than you know - very possibly PA, even if he's out of town.

I think she is looking for a soft landing in the form of getting a better job and one of us moving out.

Very possible.

We're going to a MC this week that supposedly helps work on "transitions" as part of their practice, in addition to regular MC stuff.

Personally, I'd cancel. "Unless you're interested in repairing our marriage, I don't see a need for MC."

I'm curious if W will actually bring up any concrete plan suggesting I move out for a bit.

Personally I WOULD NOT move out. If she brings it up "I do not plan to move out.", then listen and validate. Or, if you'd rather "I'll have to think about that." Do no commit to anything in real time. Give yourself a chance to think about any proposal before responding. There's no rush to decide in the moment.

My dilemma is that it's clearly best for the kids if we both remain in the house for now. We're not fighting and it's a steadier presence for one parent to be home while the other is out somewhere.

It's best for the kids IF you both agree to and commit to working it out. But that depends on your stance, yes, but also your W's, so it's not fully in your control. If one or both of you will not commit to working on it just delaying the inevitable with the move-out/separation. Personally I would want to be the one to decide to separation or D. That was my ExW's choice, not mine - I'm comfortable with my own decisions for my own integrity and morals.

On the other hand, I'm not thrilled with the cake-eating and time W spends at night clearly on her phone with the EA partner. There's just no doubt.

You're right. You know she's cheating. There is no doubt. And it's definitely hard when it's thrown in your face during IHS.

If I were to pre-emptively say in the MC session that I'm tired of it, I'm done, I'm getting a separation agreement drawn up, separating the checking account, and moving out with family (and then do so), it would be a big reality check for her. If there were ever any hope for R down the road, it would be kick-started by this.

I absolutely would NOT do this as a way to "wake her up". If anything this is more likely to slide your relationship down the slippery slope. The general stance here is open the cage and let her go if she chooses to - and indifferent party - but don't kick start/initiative the process.

To be honest, I don't know if the trust deficit that now exists could ever be restored.

Only you can decide that.

But me getting out of the house would help further my detachment, which is currently coming along.

On the one hand it will help bring peace and settle you down a bit not having that in your face. On the other her EA will continue anyway, and it might help push things along for her. If she wants to leave, let her to the heavy lifting. Just IMO.

I know it seems to be generally recommended that the cheater and the one who wants the D should be the one to go, but she has no local options and has stated in the past that she wouldn't leave the kids.

That's her problem. Seriously. She's having an affair and wants to rip apart your family. You shouldn't be concerned about making it easier for her because she doesn't have family in town. Just my opinion, and you can take it or leave it, but I would not leave the house. Your children know and are comfortable in that house. That's their home. Let your W find a new place and have them be "home" with you and "go visit mommy at her new place".

[Traveler]

My dilemma is that it's clearly best for the kids if we both remain in the house for now.

You don't control whether she moves out. You control whether you move out. Get comfortable with "You control you, I control me." Try to avoid "We-statements" as most of them involve controlling a second person.

<she> has stated in the past that she wouldn't leave the kids.

It doesn't sound like her moving out is an imminent worry, anyway.

Of course, I could refuse, but I do have family nearby.

So? Moving out isn't in your best interests. From a custody and finance perspective, she would possess the family home, a huge asset and more comfortable for the kids. She would likely end up with more overnights with custody and support consequences. That's why we keep saying like a broken record to speak to an attorney before making any plans about moving out. Perhaps most importantly, not many success stories here begin with the LBS moving out. You joined because you wanted to save your marriage, rebuild trust, and have that family for your kids? If you've changed your mind, sleep on that a few days before acting and then plan with your attorney and speak through actions intended to best protect you and your kids' rights!

I'm curious if W will actually bring up any concrete plan suggesting I move out for a bit.

"No, that doesn't work for me." Listen and validate the many feeling that may arise for her (show her Doug54 at his best--able to be fully present and emotionally available!). Do not counterattack, argue, justify, defend, etc.

[PeterB]

I advise that you drop out of MC. Even if she "finally acquiesced", it's not like there has been obvious signs that she wants to piece and she was the one who chose the counselor. MC would have been helpful during the time the marriage was degrading but it will go against you now. These days D lawyers actually advice the WAS to go into MC just to deliver the message (convince you through the counselor) or to buy time for the WAS's own purposes (wrap up that job, plan up post D life, etc). Imho its better use of your time to self-reflect and GAL. Only if you find a counselor who is pro marriage that you should do MC and even that only after you see positive changes in her that occurred organically.

[Doug54]

If I were to pre-emptively say in the MC session that I'm tired of it, I'm done, I'm getting a separation agreement drawn up, separating the checking account, and moving out with family (and then do so), it would be a big reality check for her.

I actually think that would play into exactly what she wants and would love you to move out.

That's a fair assessment and definitely crossed my mind. I guess I have to measure that against how long I'm content to feed her cake and settle for crumbs.

[Doug54]

If one or both of you will not commit to working on it just delaying the inevitable with the move-out/separation. Personally I would want to be the one to decide to separation or D. That was my ExW's choice, not mine - I'm comfortable with my own decisions for my own integrity and morals.

Thanks for your reply, BL42. The above quote stood out to me the most. That's the thing - I may just be delaying the inevitable. There's a part of me that wonders if she'll have the balls to pull the trigger. OTOH, do I want to be treading water for eons rather than getting this show on the road and meeting a better partner at some point? Yes, I get that the site is Divorce busting. I'm just pondering likelihoods.

Did you mean you would not want to be the one deciding on separation? That sort of makes more sense, and is probably something I could live with. Let her be the bad guy who broke up the family.

That's her problem. Seriously. She's having an affair and wants to rip apart your family. You shouldn't be concerned about making it easier for her because she doesn't have family in town. Just my opinion, and you can take it or leave it, but I would not leave the house. Your children know and are comfortable in that house. That's their home. Let your W find a new place and have them be "home" with you and "go visit mommy at her new place".

Yes, I appreciate that. The funny thing in all this is that if I close my eyes just hard enough, things seem almost normal. But I don't think I have the patience to "stand" for too long in an emotionally lacking marriage.

[Doug54]

It doesn't sound like her moving out is an imminent worry, anyway.

Thanks for your input, Traveler. That's very true and I often forget about the maxim, "Believe none of what they say and half of what they do." By the way, is that geared toward a MLC spouse or any wayward/walkaway spouse?

So? Moving out isn't in your best interests. From a custody and finance perspective, she would possess the family home, a huge asset and more comfortable for the kids. She would likely end up with more overnights with custody and support consequences. That's why we keep saying like a broken record to speak to an attorney before making any plans about moving out. Perhaps most importantly, not many success stories here begin with the LBS moving out. You joined because you wanted to save your marriage, rebuild trust, and have that family for your kids? If you've changed your mind, sleep on that a few days before acting and then plan with your attorney and speak through actions intended to best protect you and your kids' rights!

Very true. To your point, since I joined the forum, I have been foaming at the mouth a little over boundaries and respect regarding W merrily forging ahead, texting her EA partner with impunity, with no reverence for the institution of marriage. I'm seemingly vacillating between "Yeah, I hope to save things" and "I'm out! I'm done!" Any rebuilding of trust would appear to be light-years away.

"No, that doesn't work for me." Listen and validate the many feeling that may arise for her (show her Doug54 at his best--able to be fully present and emotionally available!). Do not counterattack, argue, justify, defend, etc.

Excellent. Though since I've started detaching, she's sought me out more to ask what's going on, am I mad? I don't know if emotionally available Doug54 would elicit the same reaction. But I get what you're saying about validation.

[Doug54]

I advise that you drop out of MC. Even if she "finally acquiesced", it's not like there has been obvious signs that she wants to piece and she was the one who chose the counselor. MC would have been helpful during the time the marriage was degrading but it will go against you now. These days D lawyers actually advice the WAS to go into MC just to deliver the message (convince you through the counselor) or to buy time for the WAS's own purposes (wrap up that job, plan up post D life, etc). Imho its better use of your time to self-reflect and GAL. Only if you find a counselor who is pro marriage that you should do MC and even that only after you see positive changes in her that occurred organically.

Thanks, Peter. So, my IC suggested I ask W to go to MC for "clarity" even if it wasn't to be restorative. In hindsight, maybe a boneheaded move from someone who only meant well. Obviously, he isn't familiar with Divorcebusting. W agreed to let me pick the counselor, but I struck out with finding one who had availability. W got a tip on one from my stepdaughter's IC and I agreed. I will pull the plug after the initial session if it feels fruitless. I don't think W is going off the guidance of a D lawyer, but your point about delivering the message through the counselor is something to be leery of.