Re: I'm Back after 1st DB (6)

[BL42]

toughtimes180,

Glad you had a successful family trip with D11 and S8.

Hope it works out on the financial/savings account front; good your L has intervened there.

Not sure I love the tone of "can't freaking wait"...we are here to save marriages after all. Are you doing anything to become a better husband?

[Josh71]

toughtimes180,
Not sure I love the tone of "can't freaking wait"...we are here to save marriages after all. Are you doing anything to become a better husband?

I appreciate this board is all about saving the marriage and I came here to do just that. However since BD2, I've come to the realization that she's a narcissist, and there has been a lot of abuse during the M as well as post BD1 and BD2. I've decided to help D along on my terms and in that regard, now, I have no desire to save M or to be a better H. It's about a better TT180 as a person and TT180 as a better father.

I know this does go against the ethos of this board, but I believe that not all M should be saved. I see this board is about being the best partner, as H, ExH, or as a future H with a priority to save the M, but it seems not always.

In terms of DB, it's minimal because there is minimal contact. I'll be lucky to validate once or twice a week. It's not that it's a hostile environment, it's not. We're just raising the kids, and keeping conversations to just the kids. All D stuff is by email only. She's throwing everything she's got at frustrating the sitch by email, and I'm always keeping cool.

So, yeah, I freaking can't wait to move out, clear the air, and focus on me without interference.

If STBXW came to me a year from now to get together it'll be no. No, because it would be an attempt to love bomb. No, because of what she is (a narcissist) and will never change. No because I have no desire to be her primary supply again. I've never been so sure of this as now.

So not everyone will like my tone and optimism about D, but let me put it this way. Two friends have said I'm the happiest they've ever seen me, dispite recent events. So that says something.

[Josh71]

I feel I was a bit too strong here. All M should try to be saved as per DB principles. But sometimes you find it cannot be saved or should not by saved. That is how I see my sitch. The M cannot be saved.

[LH19]

Not sure I love the tone of "can't freaking wait"...we are here to save marriages after all. Are you doing anything to become a better husband?

BL I hear what you are saying but the fact of the matter is most of these marriages can’t and shouldn’t be saved mainly because the motivations of the WS. I would rather see a LBS excited about the future than wallowing in their misery.

[BL42]

LH19,

Not sure I love the tone of "can't freaking wait"...we are here to save marriages after all. Are you doing anything to become a better husband?

BL I hear what you are saying but the fact of the matter is most of these marriages can’t and shouldn’t be saved mainly because the motivations of the WS. I would rather see a LBS excited about the future than wallowing in their misery.

I completely agree with what you said above, just got the sense lately that toughtimes180 is more interested in writing off his W as a narcissist and reveling in leaving than honest self reflection. Maybe I'm off base there, but my comment was meant as a challenge to look inward and consider the areas he needs to improve...no matter what happens with the relationship.

toughtimes180,

It's about a better TT180 as a person and TT180 as a better father.

What are you doing to be a better person and father? Also...what about a better partner (for current or future people)?

[LH19]

Well we all know I’m the numbers guy and every LBS has a narcissistic WW when in reality less than 4% of the population is narcissistic.

[Josh71]

I understand where you are all going with this. It's true, separation and divorce brings out different behaviours. I believe this is called a personality trap or something. And yeah, we all have narcs at the end.

My contribution to my sitch is avoidance. If I didn't avoid her behaviour from the start, and valued myself, what would it look like? I dunno, maybe she'd behave better, maybe I'd see her true colours early on, and not have spent 12 years in an unsatisfying relationship. That is my work, to accept myself, to learn to live with myself, and to ensure I am not afraid of conflict.

Why am I sure she's a narc? So many behaviours point to her as covert. Even early on, she wasn't empathetic to me, or put in the emotional effort I needed. I know this maybe rewriting history, there were some great times. But it never felt like a true, equal partnership. I was the co-dependant who gave her heaps of supply.

How am I being a better father? By actively spending time with them, by fighting for a parenting plan that allows me to be the safe place for them, by validating their emotions in a way that STBNEX doesn't. By involving them in the realities of two homes when she keeps them in the dark. By going beyond what is required in the Parenting Plan when she complains it's too hard. This board showed me to reframe her selfish time as more time with kids. And I am.

I'm not saying I'm blameless. Far from it. I allowed her to treat me like crap for over a decade. I avoided conflict. I'm in IC to work through the now, and to eventually work on how to be a better partner in the future.

The reality is, she walked out on therapy when things got too vulnerable. When she reframed and blamed me in therapy, and got caught out from it.

Despite the hell she is putting me through, I'm weeks away from freedom. My overseas trip showed how peaceful and different parenting is with just me. And whilst I'm sad at the reduced time with D1, I know that ex needs me to have more D1 time in the future, and I'll be there.

In any event, I have a clarity about my future like never before, and that is why it's freaking awesome. Rather than be depressed that she's wanting to take away my kids, screw me on finances, and want me to always be there for her, I'm happy. I accept that the next few months are tough, I know I won't die, I plowed through and got a good position on the kids, I have a great L who is keeping things on track, and the kids seem excited on decorating a new room in a new home.

DB principles saved the M the first time, but saved me the second time.

Incidentally, narcs may be 4%, but they can't keep relationships. I wonder if this board sees a higher proportion of narcs for that reason. I've not seen much here to address the uniqueness of narcassim, I've sought that support elsewhere. But I have to think for those who truely have that sort of personality disorder, DB can't help them or the M.

[Josh71]

Well, it's been on hell of a ride this month.

Day 25 of new life out of the house. Hard, but rewarding. The alone time is gold. Long hours to compensate for D1 custody time during work hours. Kids adjusting to two houses. The most quality time with my kids I've ever had.

I got the money back, nex reported my lawyer for "bullying" after I attempted presettlement due to no access to cash (she locked me out). Nex made an outrageous financial offer, abuses me in email daily, claims she's poor and dropped her lawyer, verbally screamed at me in front of the kids, smears me in front of S9, and now is attempting to impede on my custody days demanding to see the children every day.

It doesn't stop with these narcs. I'm preparing a strategy with my lawyer to get consent orders in order to have real boundaries and consequences for nex.

To top it off, I found out my first ex left her 9 year abusive marriage to a narc. We now talk weekly as friends after no contact for 13 years. Given we have a lot in common.

I've stopped all db techniques and have adopted grey rock. Absolute minimal contact as required, zero validation or emotion. I guess that's going dark minus the validation and empathy.

The house goes on the market in a fortnight, and I'm about to send a sensible counter offer. I'm preparing for the absolute worst of behaviour when she receives it.

September looks to be as crazy as August.

[LH19]

To top it off, I found out my first ex left her 9 year abusive marriage to a narc. We now talk weekly as friends after no contact for 13 years. Given we have a lot in common.

So it's interesting that narcs make up less than 4% of the population but apparently every LBS married one.

I've stopped all db techniques and have adopted grey rock.

So no more 180s, working on yourself, GAL, Detachment etc?

[BL42]

toughtimes180,

Day 25 of new life out of the house.

Did you move out?

The alone time is gold.

What are you doing to make the most of it?

Long hours to compensate for D1 custody time during work hours.

What is the custody agreement?

Kids adjusting to two houses.

Are they upset about the split? Any emotions around that?

The most quality time with my kids I've ever had.

Were you not involved before?

I got the money back

Good. The financials will work themselves out over time with a good lawyer.

Nex

Nex = ? "Now Ex"?

claims she's poor and dropped her lawyer

Dropping her L won't serve her well...

verbally screamed at me in front of the kids, smears me in front of S9, and now is attempting to impede on my custody days demanding to see the children every day.

Are you documenting / recording this?

It doesn't stop with these narcs. I'm preparing a strategy with my lawyer to get consent orders in order to have real boundaries and consequences for nex.

What are consent orders? Is that an Australia thing?

To top it off, I found out my first ex left her 9 year abusive marriage to a narc. We now talk weekly as friends after no contact for 13 years. Given we have a lot in common.

You got back in touch with a former W/GF before you're even divorced? Not sure that's a great idea...

I've stopped all db techniques and have adopted grey rock.

As LH notes there's more to DB'ing that just no contact. Hopefully you're detaching, GAL'ing, 180s, working on yourself. I previously asked you about working on yourself before as that seems to be lacking and the focus seems to be calling your Exs narcissists. Not sure you gave a great answer:

What are you doing to be a better person and father? Also...what about a better partner (for current or future people)?

How am I being a better father? By actively spending time with them, by fighting for a parenting plan that allows me to be the safe place for them, by validating their emotions in a way that STBNEX doesn't. By involving them in the realities of two homes when she keeps them in the dark. By going beyond what is required in the Parenting Plan when she complains it's too hard. This board showed me to reframe her selfish time as more time with kids. And I am.

[quote=toughtimes180]I'm not saying I'm blameless. Far from it. I allowed her to treat me like crap for over a decade. I avoided conflict. I'm in IC to work through the now, and to eventually work on how to be a better partner in the future.

From what I could tell you're being a better father by spending time with your kids and a better person/partner but not allowing yourself to be treated like crap. Fair enough, but low bar, and both answers involved a lot more about your STBEXs behaviors than yours.

Absolute minimal contact as required, zero validation or emotion. I guess that's going dark minus the validation and empathy.

Limiting contact is fine, though you have young kids so there's hopefully going to be some parenting communication for their sake. But not sure why you'd throw out validation and empathy...

The house goes on the market in a fortnight, and I'm about to send a sensible counter offer. I'm preparing for the absolute worst of behaviour when she receives it.

Do you have agreement to sell the house? Did L sign off on that? Are neither of you living in it now?

toughtimes180 - I continue to get the sense some self-reflection/introspection could help you focus on your areas for improvement, as opposed to simply calling your Exs narcissists.