WAW w/Exit Affair or WW? - 1 Year Divorced (7)

[Traveler]

I'm curious as to what people see as the pros and cons of the different apps (and how the age ranges skew on different ones).

I see similar 30s-50s women looking for casual or true love on both Tinder and Bumble, so you likely won't go wrong with either. I'd prefer Bumble for you because "women initiate communication" means you won't be spammed as much with scams or dick pics. For the woman who can't bring themselves to initiate, there's a button to send a random GIF.

I'd mention another option for you--personal matchmaking via sites like Tawkify. For a moderate fee, they vet people for you--you just show up on dates. I declined their fees. A month later they began calling me and setting me up with ladies for free whose requirements I matched who also matched mine, so my experience was fun! Worth a call!

[Ginger1]

What is a “high status” male anyways? Has a career and looks good while having a personality ? He’s not a god. That’s just being a human

What makes a “high status female” ?

[kml]

I haven't used Tinder or Bumble, but my impression of Tinder from people's discussions of it seems like people don't write very long profiles and initial decisions are made very quickly with the "swipe right, swipe left" nonsense. Also seems to be particularly popular with the hookup culture.

Bumble seems like a reasonable idea for those women who are intimidated by men contacting them. I might lose my advantage there though lol. I think being a woman willing to contact men first on the other apps may have given me an edge over the competition. I know that some of the men I contacted, for whom I was slightly above their stated age range, were more than happy to date me although they would never have even seen my profile the way they had their settings. They didn't think I was too old for them once they saw my profile (I'm talking guys maybe 2-6 years younger). The guys who were much younger than that were all ones who contacted me or, in the case of Mr Big Lots, he met me IRL (he was, I think, 9 years younger?).

Honestly, people in their 50's and 60's start to diverge quite a bit on the aging process, so a guy 9 years younger might be the same biological age as me, or a guy 9 years older. Stage of life seems to be more important.

[LH19]

What is a “high status” male anyways? Has a career and looks good while having a personality ? He’s not a god. That’s just being a human

What makes a “high status female” ?

We’ve beat this horse to death. Move on.

[BL42]

I've reached out to my friend who's W is having an EA (see details below) a few times since we first talked but he hasn't engaged much. Well today he texted asking if I can talk tonight after the kids go to bed. My gut tells me this is not a good sign.

Any advice on what else to tell him?

Also I've exchanged some texts and had an extended late night conversation with one of my long time friends who's having major difficulty in his marriage. I've known him since HS and his W for 20 years. She's having an EA with an old friend/flame from her hometown. Shady calls & texts...all the cliche red flags. He's relieved that live far away and that it hasn't gotten to PA and also she's ramped up their sex life at home with him...but I warned him based on stories here. Ironically, this is the couple I went away with on a Winter trip with my son soon after BD (which my now-ExW had actually booked for all of us a month or two prior and I was scared to go on because of what was happening), and he and his W especially were SUPER supportive of me and absolutely appalled at my then-W's actions, reaching out to see how I was doing regularly...and now she's in an EA. I'm trying to give him a bit of coaching about strength and respect and not taking comfort in the EA vs. PA. They're off on a family vacation together now with the kids so he says "it's going as well as can be expected", but the vacation is to her hometown so hopefully she' not planning to have him babysit and split out to meet up with this guy. But am definitely concerned for him about where it might be heading. He's a good man and a good father and I don't want to see his family blown up and him go through what we've all experienced.

I'm trying to give him a bit of coaching about strength and respect and not taking comfort in the EA vs. PA.

What is your advice? How is he accepting it?

I get the sense that while he knows it's not good, he thinks "well we're having sex more and on family vacation so it's not that bad", whereas it's my opinion that the situation is much more serious/risky/dire than he believes. Now, maybe that's through the lens of my sitch and I'm jaded, but we all have seen the countless situations play out here. I'm pretty concerned for him and have been trying to reach out regularly.

I told him to start hitting the gym hard. He's certainly not overweight - you might call him thin relative to people his age - but he could convert some fat to muscle and bulk up. Him and his W went to a predominately engineering / high male ratio college but had a hockey team seen as the athletic cool guys who apparently she hooked up and dated a few before they were together, so maybe she's having fantasies/flashbacks about that. He a great guy but not a college athlete type.

I told him to start acting out of strength and flipping his mindset that he's the prize and she's crazy if she leaves him. Stop being weak and making excuses about "just being friends" and "helping her friend out with a breakup". She's cheating and lying, and he needs to recognize and accept that and act accordingly.

Also to try to release control. It's gonna be her journey and he can't force her to do anything - if she's going to PA he can't stop it. He has to focus on himself.

I'm honestly not sure what to say about how to deal with the calling and texting of the EA. He's seen phone logs and spied on texts, and knows it's more than friends. It reminds me so much of where I was went I took my son away with them during the period right after my BD where I knew my then-W was texting her coworker inappropriately. But...does he tell her to stop? He can't control her. But if he doesn't does he then just go along and accept it? That's weak. She knows he knows she's talking to a "friend" and they both now at a minimum it's crossing a line. They've talked about it. And he's had check ins with her about it, which I told him to stop.

Honestly the two of them...he's a high performer engineer for an aerospace company and she's a PA for a medical organization. Just estimating but they must make $300-400k between them, have two wonderful children in grade school (around my kids age maybe a year or two older), beautiful home in the suburbs of a big city. No abuse, no drugs, no money issues...etc. It's this seemingly idyllic two kids and a picket fence life which most dream of, but as we know around here that doesn't matter. I just hate to see things blow up. It'd be a tragedy for everyone involved, him, the kids, and (imo) even her.

[DnJ]

Hello BL

Well today he texted asking if I can talk tonight after the kids go to bed. My gut tells me this is not a good sign.

I think that’s a good sign. Your friend is ready and wants to talk. Getting things off one’s chest and out in the open is a good step.

Your friend is displaying trust in you with his willingness to open up and confide.

Any advice on what else to tell him?

Usually the best thing one can do is listen. Let him talk and tell you what he will.

Remain mostly neutral. He will be emotionally charged and hurt, and will feel and say all kinds of things. And as I’ve said so very often, feelings are fleeting. What he feels right now is not forever. Validate his feelings while not painting yourself into that position, for when his feelings change what about your’s. Speak more from values and rational positions, and only a little and gently. You, of course, ain’t going to solve this situation, he just needs to talk. That’s what I mean by neutral.


Something I received from a good friend after bomb drop (She herself received when her husband went off the rails. I altered it to read for a husband, original was for her.):


1)It’s too soon to tell.

It's too soon to tell if this is a good thing or a bad thing. If it's forever over or just a temporary split. You are just at the start of a process. Don't judge it or you or her too harshly. Don't analyze and awfulize this every minute of every day. It's too soon to tell what it all means and how it all ends.


2) Be the hero of your life story, not the victim of it.

That's up to you. No one can make you a victim without your permission. You don't need her to be the villain and you the victim. That doesn't help anyone, especially your children.


3.) This woman will always be the mother of your children.

Your children need to hear you speak kindly and lovingly of their mom. If you need to bash her and vent, do so when they are not around. They share her DNA. They don't want to feel they, too, are the bad guys.


4) Appoint yourself CEO of your joy.

It is no one else's job to make you happy. Period. Maybe she did for a while, maybe she never did. Doesn't matter. It's up to you to build a life of joy no matter what life hands you. See it through the eyes of gratitude. You can survive without her. You can't survive without you.


5) Create a 9-1-1 list of people to help.

Put their names and cell phone numbers on an index card you carry with you at all times. Ask them to be "on-call" to lend you an ear, a shoulder, a tissue, an old plate to break in an empty parking lot, the number for a good attorney. Create your own support Dream Team of the most positive people you know.


6) No playing bad home movies.

It's tempting to drift back in time and replay all the times she hurt you or loved you like crazy, which can make you feel crazy now. Stay present. Stay put in this day.


7) Pray for the serenity to accept the things you can't change.

If she had an affair, you can't change that. If she is in love with someone else, you can't change that. If she can't be talked out of the divorce, you can't change that. Acceptance means you align yourself with what is and start from there.


8) Breathe.

Just pause and breathe. Take a deep breathe and count slowly to six. Exhale slowly as you count to six. The slower you breathe, the more you will feel calm. Breathe in the love of God; breathe out the love of God. There is a place of peace inside of you -- find it. It is there. It's like the centerpiece in the snow globe. She shook your snow globe and all the pieces went flying, except for the core of you. No one -- no one -- has the power to shake that.


9) Nothing you want is upstream.

I love that line. Stop strugglng. Stop swimming against the current. Stop forcing yourself on life and insisting it change. Turn and go with the flow. A God who loves you is in charge of this flow. Trust where the current is taking you. It's somewhere better. Trust me. Better yet, trust you.


10) The best is yet to come.

As good as she was, you deserve better. You deserve the best. If this relationship is truly over, then she must not have been the best. She was a dress rehearsal. Maybe she was a great appetizer or the salad course. But she wasn't the main dish. And she sure wasn't the dessert. The next relationship will be even more life enriching and life affirming. Tell the Universe, "I am ready for my perfect good." Include your children in that perfect good. Keep your heart wide open and be ready for it to fill up with even greater love.




Hmmm. When I first got this list almost five years ago, I had troubles accepting it. I could see the wisdom and could somewhat believe in it. Today, looking it up, and reading it to forward for you - this list is spot on. Each of those nuggets is true.

I hope this helps.

D

[Traveler]

I'm honestly not sure what to say about how to deal with the calling and texting of the EA. He's seen phone logs and spied on texts, and knows it's more than friends. It reminds me so much of where I was went I took my son away with them during the period right after my BD where I knew my then-W was texting her coworker inappropriately. But...does he tell her to stop? He can't control her. But if he doesn't does he then just go along and accept it? That's weak. She knows he knows she's talking to a "friend" and they both now at a minimum it's crossing a line. They've talked about it. And he's had check ins with her about it, which I told him to stop.

I'd tell him to stop pretending everything's okay. She's cake-eating, enjoying him while trying OM on for size. She's a human being, and his co-parent, but not currently his partner. Avoid venting, proclamations, and attempts to control her. Do set boundaries around his own behaviors. E.g., does he want to sleep with someone cheating on him? Does he want to sleep next to her? Begin thinking about what's best for him and the kids instead of what's best for their former family unit. Talk to an attorney to protect his finances and custody. He sounds like someone who needs to find where his sack is.

Take the energy he was putting into her and put it into his kids and GAL and 180s. If any of this triggers her to talk about the issues that led her to want to leave the relationship, which likely predated the affair, LISTEN AND VALIDATE. If he agrees, consider adding those as 180s, maybe to save the marriage or maybe for the next relationship he has.

Get into IC (or chat with you more) to work through his feelings. So many people make rash choices in these situations fueled by either anger or fear. It's incredibly challenging when you don't fully control the outcome.

[Ginger1]

I would probably just listen and validate before you jump into the “do this do that “ “this is what it will look like” speeches.

I know men are fixers though. But he does need to process

[Vapo]

I agree with Ginger. Let him talk, give him support, let him know you have his back and you are here for him no matter what.

[BL42]

Appreciate all the feedback on my friend. It was a bit of a false alarm in a way. Based on the way he reached out I was bracing myself for some significant negative news (confirmed PA, separation...etc.), but it's not as bad as that.

He told me they're in MC where she's said she's dedicated to working on it, she to him she stopped communications with her EA, and things seemed better than a few weeks ago. So that's potentially good. However, he also said they fought a few times on vacation to the point her mom asked what was going on in the condo and his W asked him to stop the car and let her out once (with the kids in it), plus she told him she's mad he won't let her talk to the "friends" she wants to.

So...based on those fights and the stories we've all read on this board I'm not convinced she's being honest about being all-in to work on things through MC or to stopping EA communications. But I also don't want to see everything through the lens of my sitch and the board stories and over concern/coach him either. I told him to listen/validate/empathize with her rather than logic/reasoning/fixing, and to hit the gym and do things for himself.

Hopefully they work through this. Hopefully he's not being too weak or naïve and underestimating the seriousness of the situation. But time will tell...