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Originally Posted by Wolfman
I am trying to be the change, baby steps
I see that, your patience and attempts to make this work. I'm rooting for you two!

Originally Posted by Wolf
She said I am making her upset and she doesnt want to talk about his anymore. I said if this conversation is upsetting you we can end this conversation.
Originally Posted by Wolf
As far as the "we" statements. i only asked because she was upset and I didn't want to continue to upset her, thats why I asked if she wanted to end the conversation. How would I use "I" there? I feel like that would be controlling, with the we, I am giving her a voice.
Wolf, I can clarify a bit more. I'll caveat I'm of course on the outside looking in!

I get what you're saying, but your girlfriend doesn't seem meek and doesn't need you to "give" her a voice because she already has one and expressed it: "I don't want to talk about this anymore." Some good "I" statement replies if you wanted to stop might be, "I don't, either." or "Fine, I'll drop this for now." "I" statements are rarely controlling because they control OURSELVES not OTHERS. As I said, it's subtle, but the shift to "I" statements really helped me transition from either being controlled or controlling my XGF (co-dependence), towards healthier interdependence.

Originally Posted by Wolf
I told her it was just too expensive and i would look at other weeks for us to go away. Evidently I didn't realize she was still trying to figure something out for that week.
Originally Posted by Wolf
The affirmative consent, I am a little confused there.
That one's simpler. Anytime an activity involves her, unless there's a clear and unambiguous signal she consents such as "Yes" or "I agree", don't assume she's agreed to anything. Consent isn't the absence of no, it's the presence of yes! This one's bitten you before. Going a step further, "You told her" <and then expected it was settled> implies inequality. BL42's suggestion to put any dates and times you agree to into a shared calendar on the fridge or in Google would reduce confusion.

Originally Posted by Wolf
Yet its just me who works and is paying for it.
Like Dawn, I'd note the above implies watching the baby while you're driving to, from, and are at your workplace is not "work". It's unfortunate our society can undervalue housework. What would a daycare or nanny charge? That percentage of your paycheck (AT LEAST--more if she does other chores) is her contribution towards expenses. Once upon a time I had a partner who did my laundry and I regret initially expecting more and valuing them less than laundry services.

Originally Posted by Wolf
I try and give her everything that I can, physically, mentally, emotionally and financially.
Like Dawn, ack, don't spoil her! I'd strive to more equally divide these between you, her, and your children. Granted, there will be seasons when one of them needs more, but those should be the exceptions.



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Dawn there are times I am defensive. I am quick to go on the defense at times. Something I need to improve on. Thank you for your aShe dvice. I do talk to her about the finances. We talk a lot about it, the finances. I didn't think about how much money she is saving us with taking care of the baby.

Traveler, you are right, I need to work on those "I" statements. I just seem lost at times. I feel like I don't have a voice in this relationship. When i give my opinion, that does go with hers, thats when we get into an argument. I am tired. I am trying but losing love. I don't want to give up, but I am losing hope. She is not happy. One thing I have learned from here and listening to motivational speakers is, people are in charge of their own happiness. She needs to learn to find happiness on her own. She doesn't, She holds me accountable for her happiness. She is often bringing up things from the past, that is preventing her from being happy. She continues to rip the scab open. I don't know how to help her get over these things. I try to show her love everyday, with little things, it doesn't seem to be helping. She is stuck in her emotions and doesn't know how to get unstuck. One of her biggest problems is my son. She feels like I often put him ahead of her and the baby. I am trying to balance. She makes me feel like she is my child, like when the child feels like the siblings are being favored. She will say things like, "I am your woman and you should make me feel like I am your woman." I would ask, "How do I make you feel like you are not my woman?" She would then go on how I put my son before her. She is competing with my son and I am not sure why.

Last night I decided to schedule a date night. i had a babysitter come over (her best friend) and watch the baby. I made reservations for a nice restaurant and then go out after for a little bit. She has always told me she like when the man takes charge. So, thats what I did. I picked a place that was close and nice and the after place was close too. Dinner was nice, food was great had a nice time. Yet, in my gut I just felt a little distance. I could be wrong but thats just how I felt. After dinner we went to the second place for a drink. About 20 minutes in (I don't remember how we got to the conversation) she starts to talk about all the things I have done to hurt her, how she is emotionally scarred, basically everything is my fault. 2 things she brought up was, when she first got pregnant, I mentioned about getting an abortion. We were not in a good place and not prepared for the baby. Second, was when I called the cops on her. Those things are over a year and a half ago. She needs to move on, because if she doesn't, this is going to destroy our relationship. I have apologized for those things many times, but she wont let go. i can't undo them. Also, the baby I am actually crazy about, and that at the time I said that, I was stupid. I have more than showed her how much I love that little guy and how I want to be with him every second i get. That should undo that comment. But she won't let it go. She mentioned again, how my "other family" comes before her and the baby. Yet the night ended with, She is just going to focus on the baby and no one else. I asked, so you don't even care about me? She said I have made her feel this way and she is just going to worry and focus on the baby. That really hurt!!! In my mind with that statement. I feel like now I am just a convenience. She has a home, all the bills are paid, she doesn't have to work and that does not sit with me well. I am no one's convenience!!! If she doesn't show me soon I am not someone she will care about, this is going to end. Thank you for reading all of this!!!


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
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Wolfman,

Originally Posted by Wolfman
One thing I have learned from here and listening to motivational speakers is, people are in charge of their own happiness.
Very true. Good lesson to learn.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She needs to learn to find happiness on her own.
I cringe at the "she needs to..." statements. You can't control her or direct her; work on yourself and your own happiness.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She will say things like, "I am your woman and you should make me feel like I am your woman." I would ask, "How do I make you feel like you are not my woman?"
Instead of asking a defensive question, what about validating and reflecting on how you can address her concerns. How would you make a woman feel you cherish her and want her?

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She is competing with my son and I am not sure why.
This is going to be a big problem if it doesn't change. You'll always have a son, and he needs to be a priority. Not the only priority, but a priority. Like you said, a balance. Reflect on whether you think it is balanced or if you think it's unbalanced in an unfair way to her. If it's the latter then take action to address it. If it's the former, and she's simply jealous of you having other kids, that's not something you can change and will continue to be an issue unless she changes her mindset. You have other children. That's a simple fact. In order for the two of you to work out as a couple, she'll need to accept that.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Last night I decided to schedule a date night. i had a babysitter come over (her best friend) and watch the baby. I made reservations for a nice restaurant and then go out after for a little bit. She has always told me she like when the man takes charge. So, thats what I did.
Well done! Keep it up. Sounds like a great way to address her concerns from above.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
she starts to talk about all the things I have done to hurt her, how she is emotionally scarred, basically everything is my fault. 2 things she brought up was, when she first got pregnant, I mentioned about getting an abortion. We were not in a good place and not prepared for the baby. Second, was when I called the cops on her.
First, despite the turn of conversation I'd recommend continuing the date nights and special ways to make her feel like she's your woman. I don't think one gesture or date night is going to turn things on a dime.

Second, did you try truly listen to her concerns and validation. The two items she brings up are (in fairness) pretty significant. Asking for an abortion and calling the police are major events. It's not being late 5 mins coming home from work. It may take her time to process those feelings. Are you listening and understanding and empathizing with her?

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She needs to move on, because if she doesn't, this is going to destroy our relationship.
Again, "she needs to..." Maybe it's nothing, but the way you say that makes me wonder.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I have apologized for those things many times, but she wont let go. i can't undo them.
I think it's going to take a lot of time for her to process those feelings and a lot of patience on your part.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She said I have made her feel this way and she is just going to worry and focus on the baby. That really hurt!!! In my mind with that statement. I feel like now I am just a convenience.
I can understand why that would hurt. This almost sounds like a mini-BD. Are you DB'ing accordingly? Keep working on yourself and being a great dad, and learn how to attract her and make her feel like you want her to be your woman.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She has a home, all the bills are paid, she doesn't have to work and that does not sit with me well.
Seems like we see this time and time again on this forum. For better or worse, being a good dad and provider is not good enough in relationships/marriages these days.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
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OM1 affair ends: May '20
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She has a home, all the bills are paid, she doesn't have to work and that does not sit with me well.

In all fairness, she IS working - she’s raising your child, and that’s the toughest job I ever did in my life (and I used to work 12 hour shifts at a busy urgent care center).

And if she is taking the GRE, she’s clearly planning for a future career.

She may or may not be able to forgive you for those things. This relationship may or may not work out. Are you speaking her love languages? Will she go to therapy with you?

I’m sorry this first date didn’t go the way you hoped. Maybe the next date night should be an activity, where the focus is less on talking? P

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BL42 touched on many good points, but I wanted to focus on this one:

Originally Posted by Wolfman
she doesn't have to work and that does not sit with me well.
At a minimum, she's nannying a young child and possibly doing housekeeping, cooking, laundry, etc.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I didn't think about how much money she is saving us with taking care of the baby.
"does not sit well with me"--The thought that she's not working or helping the bottom line seems to cause you resentment. Try this--list what she does and how much it would cost to oursource. Get specific. E.g., if she does housekeeping, a monthly service may only charge $500, but a weekly service may charge $1200. If you'd rather do a task yourself, that's fine--substitute your typical hourly work rate for the cost of doing the task. How much is she helping the bottom line?



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BL you made this comment:

I can understand why that would hurt. This almost sounds like a mini-BD. Are you DB'ing accordingly? Keep working on yourself and being a great dad, and learn how to attract her and make her feel like you want her to be your woman.

Here's my dilemma with that statement. I feel like I am putting in all the effort into this relationship. I am trying to speak her love language and do things she likes. I don't see that in return, right now this relationship is one sided, in my opinion. This is where my resentment comes form and is only growing. I am starting to come to the end of my rope.

We have not been intimate in a month. Its really starting to get to me. June is my birthday, fathers day and took her out on a date (which didn't go perfect) and nothing. Not even a little kissing.

KML as far as raising our child. I guess it is the hardest job. I guess I remember my mom raising me and my 2 brothers. My dad did not get home till 6-7. My mom did it, didn't make my dad feel guilty for doing it and complained minimally. She tells me how exhausted she is, when I get home which is 2;30-3 I take over. Baby goes to bed at 7 every night. Maybe I have a warped mentality about raising a child and being able to handle it, because I saw how my mom did it.

Traveler, she is helping the bottom line. If we had to put the baby in child care it would probably eat up most of her salary. I get that. But then have some appreciation for me, have some respect for me.

I feel like she is bi polar ( I know she is not) One day she is sweet a s pie to me, next day, completely nasty to me. Her mood is all over the place. Father's Day was awesome. I had my 2 boys with me (No daughter) and she made it a great day. Made me feel so loved and appreciated. She did an awesome job and I told what a great day it was and how special she made it for me. Then yesterday, She says to me, did you hear about the supreme court ruling about carrying guns? Side note I am a republican conservative and she is a democrat liberal. I said I did. GF replied, this is going to cause more gun violence and its ridiculous that they are allowing people to carry wherever. She said what do I think about this? I said I think its good because now law abiding citizens will be able to defend themselves... and I went into my reason more. Well she got mad at me for my opinion and said, see I can't even talk to you, you are like a wall. GF then said she didn't want to talk about it anymore. I quickly scrolled online and said 50 democrats were for this too. She got even more mad and said I told you I don't want to talk about this anymore and stormed off. She didn't speak to me the rest of the day.
In my opinion, If she is going to ask for my opinion then she shouldn't get mad at it. Yeah maybe I should have stopped and not shown that little post. But this happens a lot. She will want to discuss something, give her opinion and when its my turn she doesn't like it, usually cuts me off and says she doesn't want to hear me anymore and walks away. I feel like I have no voice in this relationship and we struggle to have "adult" conversations. Either I agree with her or forget it. I am tired of having a partner I cannot talk to. We should be able to have mature conversations like 2 grown adults. This is one of those things once again. She told me to stop talking to her, stormed off and ignored me and my son the rest of the day. Yet, she will expect me to go to her and make this better. Just so you all know, I would say 90% of the time I usually do. Again, I feel like thats me putting in effort in the relationship and her having no problem letting these problems linger.
I am having such a hard time. I feel like I cannot communicate with her, at all. I feel like my feelings and opinions in this relationship don't matter. I am on the verge of ending it.


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Man, Wolf, you just have a lot on your plate. I caution you to NOT compare the way your gf mothers to the way your mom mothered. You say your mom raised you and your brother and never complained, but you were a child, so you don't know what your mom was saying to your dad behind closed doors. She may very well have been complaining about being tired all the time just like your gf does. I'm sure you have heard that saying "comparison is a thief of joy". Get rid of ALL of your preconceived notions about who was a good mother and who was not and just support your gf in HER role as a mother (which you are doing, it sounds like, but just stop with the comparisons). Comparisons are what lead to resentment when someone doesn't "measure up" to some standard they don't even know they are being held to.


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I am a republican conservative and she is a democrat liberal.

This is probably not going to work out then - your values are way too different.

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Dawn than k you for the advice. I will try and stop comparing.

KML- lol it’s very possible.

I have a very interesting situation come up. I feel like gf is trying to create an exit strategy. It’s just something I feel deep down. She wants to go back into flying (that was her real job before the pandemic, she got laid off) for a new company. Which means she would not be home a lot. This is the same gf who always said she wanted to be home with the kids until they went to school and was adamant that the baby would not go to child care. Now that’s what it would be. And for the last year on and off she has tried to convince me to let her put me on child support. First it was just in case my ex went for more child support. I explained that her putting me on child support would not change my support for my first 2 kids and my lawyer said the same. Yet she would on and off again try and convince me. Now she is saying, because child care is expensive, she found a program because we are not married, if she put me on child support, child care would be very cheap because she would qualify for this program. She mentioned it would be like $50 a month instead of hundreds. I still don’t feel comfortable, once you get on child support it’s very difficult to get off. I don’t have a good feeling in my gut. How do I explain to her I don’t want to go on child support, regardless if it’s going to make child care very cheap?


M:42 XW:41
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D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
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Hi Wolf,

I would go in the opposite direction. A central DB tenant is to open the cage door. You know she is ethically and legally entitled to child support. Ask your attorney the range she would be awarded and pay her the minimum. Then, charge that amount in rent. You don't want her to stay with you because she feels trapped by $$$, especially $$$ she can easily obtain. Besides, it's all on paper unless you split, and in that case getting the minimum may delay her asking for the median.

Originally Posted by Wolf
I still don’t feel comfortable, once you get on child support it’s very difficult to get off. I don’t have a good feeling in my gut. How do I explain to her I don’t want to go on child support, regardless if it’s going to make child care very cheap?
If you choose that route, "I'm not open to voluntary child support." You don't need to explain, justify, etc. Those conversations have tended to go south for you. Listen and validate her feelings about your choice. Leave her to figure out next steps--dropping it, calling an attorney, or squirreling away money, etc. Offer to setup couples' therapy a.s.a.p. if she wants to discuss it.



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