When 50% of marriages end in divorce, this is no longer true. Actions speak louder than words.
Originally Posted by kml
There's a reason we celebrate the commitment of marriage.
A lot of reasons we 'celebrate' marriage are in fact social and have nothing to do with committment. It reminds me of Jim & Pam's marriage in The Office. A committed couple can choose to get married without fanfare or just stay committed to each other without even getting married.
Originally Posted by kml
And actually, I'm not bitter about my divorce. I'm unhappy about the fact that my ex stole MY AGENCY by not being honest about who he was and what he was doing in the marriage. Instead he lied and deceived. I'm actually thrilled to be divorced from him now.
I feel this is a good example of how the 'lifetime commitment' in a marriage is a actually just a contract. Both parties have to live up to the terms (or expectations) of the contract to make the marriage work. There is no commitment without the terms of the contract being met reasonably.
I know different people would have different answers to this question in different situations with different people, but I would argue that at 6 months in, you are only just beginning to find out who the real person is, not the infatuated fantasy you have about them. So at what point would you consider yourself not committed to "making it work" after saying ILU if you found out one of these things about them?
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Point is - the choice needs to be made everyday and everyday you need to work at it. Easier said than done. Certainly it can be done, I think the point of your second paragraph above is that it needs to be done, whenever that happens.
But does it? If you're married (and weren't deceived by your spouse about who they were before your marriage) then definitely yes. But if you've only been dating for 6 months and said ILU based on the limited information people have after only 6 months of dating (because it is impossible to truly know someone in that short a time)? Staying and trying to fix that situation if there are dealbreakers that arise sounds pretty codependent and unhealthy to me.
I'm not saying all people don't have problems or that we shouldn't work to help our partners. But 6 months is a pretty short time to be taking on marriage-type commitment to a person just because you had nice infatuation feelings. At 6 months its really usually still just that. It takes a lot more time to find out who someone really is. (BTW I took on CMM and his cancer not because I was in LOOOOVE with him at only 3 months, but because he had no one else, I had the capacity and skills to help another human being at the end of his life, I did care for him, and I viewed it as a mitzvah - is that the right word?- a good deed - that I could do in my life. We built the love through that process of caring for each other, but I would hesitate to recommend it to anyone else. I grew up on the lives of the saints. )
So should we not say ILU at all until we've known someone for a couple of years and are really sure of our feelings towards them? Or should we accept that you can say ILU because you have loving feelings towards them, but it is still acceptable to back out of the relationship if you subsequently discover something that is a dealbreaker for you?
And to the women out there - we've been raised on unhealthy Prince Charming scenarios. Usually if something seems too good to be true, it is. I'm very leery of a guy who wants to say ILU too soon. It's not attractive to me because I KNOW they don't know me well enough to truly mean it. I know what it actually means in that scenario is "I like you a lot" or "I am in love with the FANTASY I have of who you are" or "You're really hot" or "The sex is fantastic" or "You're a really cool person and I am really enjoying our time together and hoping it goes somewhere".
I'd put a lot less emphasis on what they do or don't SAY, and a lot more emphasis on what they DO or don't DO. You shouldn't be heartbroken because a guy said ILU at 3 months and then later ended up breaking up with you - you should have taken those words with a grain of salt and continued to do your due diligence to find out if HE was right for YOU.
K what I don’t think you understand is us healthy people can spot love bombers like you and CW a mile away and would have dropped you before the one month mark. If I make it to six months I will have a excellent handle on the type a person I am with.
Originally Posted by kml MARRIAGE is a lifetime commitment.
When 50% of marriages end in divorce, this is no longer true. Actions speak louder than words.
The commitment is real, whether people honor it is another thing. I have peace in my heart that I did EVERYTHING possible to save my marriage. I honored my commitment - my ex did not.
I don't feel you have to be legally married to have that commitment btw - but just saying ILU after a few months of dating is NOT the same thing as making a serious lifetime commitment.
[quote]I know different people would have different answers to this question in different situations with different people, but I would argue that at 6 months in, you are only just beginning to find out who the real person is, not the infatuated fantasy you have about them. So at what point would you consider yourself not committed to "making it work" after saying ILU if you found out one of these things about them?
KML - you only seem to be looking at one side of this. If it's okay that CW doesn't have that "commitment love"... than it makes sense to challenge his reaction to her. Because let's be honest - if you don't love someone 6 months... you really shouldn't be p!ssed to all h3ll for the weekend debacle. To me - it seemed intense. At 3 months - with no deep love - Shouldn't it be more of a "That weekend svcked. She's not right for me.. moving on " with a shoulder shrug?? Shouldn't the venting be more to the tune of "I'm so frustrated.. or sad... or disappointed... versus "she's so irresponsible, how could she possibly live a life like this?"
I would continue to say how confusing that would all be EXCEPT for the fact that he struggles with anxious attachment. So it actually makes perfect sense!
I'm sure the comments around ILUs will continue on - and that's all fine.. but I really wish we would have stayed on the core issue - Anxious Attachment styles. I would have loved to help CW with that instead of getting wrapped up in all this noise
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
"she's so irresponsible, how could she possibly live a life like this?"
He actually didn't say it like that. But I think it's healthy for him to recognize the chaos in her life and realize getting drawn into it would be counter to the hard work he's done to make his own life less chaotic. And people shouldn't be beating him up for making that (sane) decision. Even if he DID say ILU already. People are acting like he's obligated to stick with her and work it all out and he's not! This is dating. Yes, he should slow his roll in the future but he's hardly the only person here who has jumped into something too quickly. (T, stop with the romantic weekends away btw! Save that for later!) That's why I think it's good to have a larger discussion about what people mean when they say ILU and where they think the relationship should be before they say it. So far I've heard 6 months and "whenever you feel it". But if people are saying it's a very serious commitment to say it, then should we wait longer? Or should we acknowledge that it isn't necessarily the same thing as making a very serious commitment?
His observation was that this wasn't about her being broke, but about her being broke AND fiscally irresponsible AND relying on daddy to bail her out from bad decisions. That would be a dealbreaker for me any day. I think it's healthy that he recognized that it's a dealbreaker for him too now.
She doesn’t have to be “beneath him” to be a bad match for him. We all discover certain personality traits that are dealbreakers for us. I wouldn’t be a match for somebody who is into extravagant spending on status symbols. Doesn’t make them bad, just reveals they have values that don’t align well with my own.
But I’m not really raising this question to rehash the arguments over Ts decision - I’m genuinely curious what everyone’s different values are around saying ILU and levels of commitment in dating.
To me when you say “I love you” as cadet says, it’s a choice. Every day. It’s an action. It’s not just a feeling how.feel. It’s absolutely an action verb, just like cadet says .
It’s a choice every day. When the going gets rough, you chose to love instead of walk.
Love is an action, not a fleeting feeling . To me, anyways
