I came back to the boards precisely for the honesty. You can tell by the posts it's an emotional roller-coaster. The fact I have trouble detaching fron STBXW emotions is obvious. It's a hope for a change that she has never demonstrated possible, and IC reminded me of all the effort I made for it to work, and to not beat myself up. It's natural to not want emotional closeness and intimacy with someone who is emotionally explosive and manipulative. I appreciated ICs insight that in two weeks, I've gained more power, control, agency than 10 years of marriage.
LH19, you are correct. I can't effectively act like I can't wait. I've been openly supportive with W, I've never blocked and worked with her to prepare the house for sale. But not obviously enthusiastic. Yeah, I tried selling myself on the idea. That's the best I can do, and I faked it. I don't know how more enthusiastic I can be in the process, I can't speed up the process. However today, I saw how disrespectful STBXW was to S today when he acted out, and my attempts to parent in a more sympathetic way were intereferes with. It reminds me how she has never and can never respect my differences.
Can you clarify what you mean by weaker postion and pretzel self? Is that a suggestion that the longer it drags, I'll not be able to have clear separation in the future, that I'll still be in the same dynamic, just living apart? Or you mean emotionally twisted and harder to detach?
Mumin, I'm not sure I can have 50/50 time given the age of D2 and my work schedule. I'd have to see if I could get some flex hours, otherwise, they'll come home from school to an empty apartment.
Kind18, is the money you are talking about the CSA calculation? I looked at it, and I can afford it even if I had no custody. I do pretty well financially in my job. She has said CSA, so it's going to happen. Good to know that I can ask my employer, and get flexible hours. That is the reason I didn't think I could. I absolutely want as much time with my kids as possible. The wildcard is the little one. Wouldn't it be disruptive to shuttle her around? I'd love to see her, but she is only just over a year old.
I'm confused about your comment on binding agreement. If I formally say I'm paying CSA, does that not protect things?
Josh, detachment is a journey. If it were easy just to decide to be detached and detach then there would be a lot higher R rate. The fact is that most of struggle with detachment. For me, once I saw the positive effect detachment, even in the fake until you make state, had I got way better at it. I remember vividly the day she started working on her resume. Her plan was to get a job, get an apartment, and get a D. So on a Saturday she went in to the home office and started working on her resume. She came out at one point and asked if it was okay for her to buy some books on resume writing, interviewing, and just job searching in general. I told her in a very flat, unemotional tone, "get whatever you think will help".
That evening she came back out in tears, saying she felt like she was doing the wrong thing, that God hated divorce, etc. I just listened, very evenly and validated. It was very eye-opening to the power of emotional detachment. My lack of emotion, both positive and negatively, had a tremendous impact on her. She expected me to refuse her buying the books. She expected me to commiserate with her on the hedging over the divorce. When I did nothing and was a rock, it continued to have an effect on her.
But it isn't easy and anyone that claims that it is hasn't attempted it!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hmm, I wonder if I was too supportive of the divorce today, too positive and not detached. The real estate agent was pressuring her on a bad deal. I explained why we shouldn't sign, and we should get a second opinion from a known agent who is a shark. Should I have just said do whatever you think is right? Or demonstrate support for the divorce and our position as I did? Or as LH19 suggested, get it over quickly, and encourage her to sign.
I think today, in our conversation about the real estate agent, was too positive, like we were partners. Not detached.
Can you clarify what you mean by weaker position and pretzel self?
The longer you are in IHS the more you will try to placate her which will weaken your position which will allow her to steamroll over you which makes her lose more respect for you. Your natural instinct is going to have the opposite effect. It is almost impossible for someone with anxious attachment to do IHS. Now I am not telling you that you don't have a chance to turn this around what I am saying is it is unlikely to be in IHS. Again she may stay but you will likely just be kicking the can down the road unless you both are 100% into solving the toxic dynamic between the two of you.
Originally Posted by Josh_T
Is that a suggestion that the longer it drags, I'll not be able to have clear separation in the future, that I'll still be in the same dynamic, just living apart? Or you mean emotionally twisted and harder to detach?
No you will eventually detach one way or another unless you choose to stand forever. What I am saying is the IHS will be no picnic for you.
I explained why we shouldn't sign, and we should get a second opinion from a known agent who is a shark. Should I have just said do whatever you think is right? Or demonstrate support for the divorce and our position as I did?
Neither! In the first case, you are being controlling in telling her what she (“we”) should do. In the second case you are being passive and letting her make decisions for you. I’d prefer to see an active Josh who says, “This works for me.” or “This doesn’t work for me.” and lets her make her own decisions. I think this example actually highlights your co-dependence.
Hmm, I wonder if I was too supportive of the divorce today, too positive and not detached. The real estate agent was pressuring her on a bad deal. I explained why we shouldn't sign, and we should get a second opinion from a known agent who is a shark. Should I have just said do whatever you think is right? Or demonstrate support for the divorce and our position as I did? Or as LH19 suggested, get it over quickly, and encourage her to sign.
I think today, in our conversation about the real estate agent, was too positive, like we were partners. Not detached.
Josh what I want you to do is make decisions on what is best for you and the kids. If it is smart to sell than sell. If it is best to get a second opinion than get a second agent. Don't encourage her to do anything.
I get it. It is best to wait, for the kids, and the decision to look for another agent does that. I would have never thought to say this doesnt work for me. In fact, I've probably never in my life said that. I'm going to remember that line. In your scenario, let's say I did say that. And she responds with what do you think, or I don't know what to do? I say "do what's best for the kids?"
LH19, yes, we have a toxic co-dependent relationship, and while I'm trying my hardest to fix, let's assume she won't. I base that on years of marriage and failed couples counselling. Our whole marriage has been trying not to be steam rolled, starting from the first few months we moved in together. In away, IHS is no different than our marriage, other than I don't have to listen to her emotionally unload. She isn't as hostile anymore since I set that boundary. I'm assuming that what I need to survive is the usual detach, validate, set boundaries, and focus on what I want and not to think what her reaction will be.
I get it. It is best to wait, for the kids, and the decision to look for another agent does that. I would have never thought to say this doesnt work for me. In fact, I've probably never in my life said that. I'm going to remember that line. In your scenario, let's say I did say that. And she responds with what do you think, or I don't know what to do? I say "do what's best for the kids?" [quote=Josh_T] LH19, yes, we have a toxic co-dependent relationship, and while I'm trying my hardest to fix, let's assume she won't. I base that on years of marriage and failed couples counselling.
Yeah so it takes two to make a marriage work so this is why it failed.
Originally Posted by Josh_T
Our whole marriage has been trying not to be steam rolled, starting from the first few months we moved in together.
Believe it or not she doesn't want to steamroll you. She wants you to stand up to her. That's why you got the ILYBINILWY. It's her lizard brain. She doesn't trust you can protect her and the family.
Originally Posted by Josh_T
I'm assuming that what I need to survive is the usual detach, validate, set boundaries, and focus on what I want and not to think what her reaction will be.
Yes! Exactly! Based on how you two interact with one another it will be very difficult for you.
I get it. It is best to wait, for the kids, and the decision to look for another agent does that. I would have never thought to say this doesnt work for me. In fact, I've probably never in my life said that. I'm going to remember that line. In your scenario, let's say I did say that. And she responds with what do you think, or I don't know what to do? I say "do what's best for the kids?"
"Let me think about it and get back to you." -- It's okay to think before acting, and that's much better than telling her what to do (controlling) or letting her decide for you (passive).
You've heard forum members advocate, "I don't want to sell now." vs. "I want to sell. I'll call another agent tomorrow." Both are respectable Josh decisions depending on how you feel a few days in a row.
Josh, it's hard to break co-dependency! Most of us have been there.
Originally Posted by Josh
Do what's best for the kids.
Vague, but you're still telling her what to do (controlling).
Originally Posted by Josh
It is best to wait, for the kids, and the decision to look for another agent does that.
Passive-aggressive. An aggressively controlling person tells others what to do. A passively-aggressive controlling person tries to get their way via other means like dragging their feet.
"What do you think?" -- "The rate he's offering is 20% lower than other agents would offer." "I don't know what to do?" -- "Let me know when you've decided."
