Need advice: wife of 10 years wants out

[PeterB]

PeterB,

Sorry about your situation. Fortunately there are a lot of people on this board who have been through it and want to help.

You'll have already come through for me by responding. Thak you very much.

but she has been unhappy, mainly at what she perceives as me treating her bad.

Can you further explain her complaints about the way you treated her?

Please see my previous reply.

I have been unhappy too as I felt mentally tortured by her.

How did she mentally torture you?

Almost nothing I do is good enough. Never notices what I do around the house. My guy friends actually remark that I do so much and hope that their own wives don't find out. Apparently they don't do even half of what I do. Furthermore, our child is special needs so all his therapy needs are handled by me, including analysis and implementation - that is a full time job. Often converts things to opposite of what really happened and complains to her family. Extreme denial of logic during fights and comes back to fight again and again, once she is offended.

But she is overflowing with bitterness

This is common. She's projecting all of her hurt and pain and unhappiness onto you. It doesn't mean it's accurate, but her feelings about it are real.

Nice way of putting it - feelings and perception are the only realities that matter I suppose.

and is trying to find strength by talking to a few friends and a counsellor who has damaged her views about me by validating her thoughts about me.

It's also common WAS/WS will seek out people who validate their decisions (divorce, affairs...etc.) and reject those who question their decisions.

It is very likely that her counsellor and friend are validating or even encouraging the affair. How do I deal with this headwind?

A week is a quick turnaround. Most take longer (I certainly did). Keep it up.

Don't expect a quick turn around. Think a LONG time. Right now you're looking for any positive sign to validate your hopes, but often LBSs read too much into little exchanges or acts by the WAS/WS.

Thanks for the reality check. Any thoughts on what does it takes for a WAW to get over the affair drug? I should remind that the affair is long distance at this time.

Don't bank on her IC turning things around for you.

Hell no. He is making it worse for sure and will continue to do so.

That's great. Stay calm and strong. Keep it up! Don't engage her. If she does just stand back and listen and validate her and then leave the house and go to the gym or get drinks with a buddy or take a trail hike or go to the movies.

She has certainly noticed the changes. But soon her defense mechanisms kick in and she starts making excuses for the changes - according to her I am on various medications that have triggered and sustained my positive actions. She even tells me to stop trying so hard for her - now that is weird because clearly, I am not talking to her about any changes, I am just trying to GAL. Do you think she genuinely thinks I am trying to impress her or is it a defensive thought? I don't know what really works for WAW that makes them come back to the marriage.

You should consult a lawyer ASAP. It's important to understand what the custody & financial implications of a divorce are, should it go that route. Just a consult with one or maybe a few lawyers in your area. You don't have to pursue anything if you don't want to, but understanding the law and your rights will some clarity. Knowledge = power. DO NOT TELL HER YOU DID.

Thanks. I did read up quite a bit but will talk to a lawyer asap.

[LH19]

Thanks LH19. Basically you are saying that I should just let her vent even if a lot of it is very inaccurate.

I always say don't validate BS behavior like if she says you caused her to have an affair. But if you treated her bad (which I am sure at some point you did) then just respond with "I understand how that may have hurt you".

Is there anything I should be explaining to her at all?

Nope. Waste of time and energy.

Bad behavior: Yelling at her, getting annoyed over 'simple things' (simple according to her), not able to share things with me fearing that I will get annoyed, not satisfying her sexually.

Is this true? So you can 180 this with patience and validation. The sex part sounds like she is trying to cut you. She wants a D is sleeping with another man but yet still has sex with you even though it's not satisfying. Sounds logical.

Not able to share is a mutual problem. I could not share much with her about problems because she would either dismiss it or turn it into a fight. She kept detailed notes of fights but my own pain during those fights is not something she thinks is worth considering.

Detailed notes of fights. I have never heard of that before.

She said that to me directly as she is sure that I am the cause of all fights (which is quite inaccurate, although I admit that many fights were because I ran my mouth). Otoh I distinctly remember that she would get really mean and then even though I would try very hard to avoid the fight from escalating she would deliberately come at me again and again and finally break me.

So learning to control your emotions should be on your 180 list.

I have strong family values but I understand that yelling is not consistent with maintaining a family.

But yet apparently you do because you can't control your emotions.

Regarding the D bomb, I am certain that she has not thought about her son at all. She said that she cannot sacrifice her life for him. Her family has got involved and they think similarly. I am devoted to my child otoh. How do I make her be more considerate about our son and the effect of divorce on him?

Peter you can't make her do anything. She knows a D will affect your son. Right now she doesn't care.

What should I do about her affair? She has been thinking of living separately - should I object to it?

I am getting a sense you are a control freak. You will soon learn the only person you can control is yourself. The quicker you learn the better you will do at DBing.

Hi @SteveLW, thanks for your answers. I'm assuming she has had sexual intercourse with him. I have never cheated on her. You are right that currently the affair changes nothing unless I feel I should dump her for that.

If you know she is having sex with someone else you should not be having sex with her right now. Have you been tested for STDs?

I sleep in a different room. We are having sex. She U turns around to her 'D' self during the day and keeps repeating that it won't work out.

She has to convince herself that getting a D is the right thing to do.

She has mentioned some of the things her friends, and counselor have told her about me and I found those downright evil of them as they have never met me. What should I tell her about her continuing discussions with them? I know that everytime she discuss with them it sets us back by miles.

You can't control her Peter.

[SteveLW]

Hi @SteveLW, thanks for your answers. I'm assuming she has had sexual intercourse with him. I have never cheated on her. You are right that currently the affair changes nothing unless I feel I should dump her for that.

I sleep in a different room. We are having sex. She U turns around to her 'D' self during the day and keeps repeating that it won't work out.

She has mentioned some of the things her friends, and counselor have told her about me and I found those downright evil of them as they have never met me. What should I tell her about her continuing discussions with them? I know that everytime she discuss with them it sets us back by miles.

Anytime a PA is even a possibility you need to stop having sex with her. You have to protect yourself. She is having sex with someone else, she could be a petri dish of disease right now.

Also, are you in the MBR or a guest BR? If so you need to move back into the MBR and move her out of the MBR. She is the one walking away, she is the one that should sleep elsewhere.

Remember, Peter, you cannot nice her back. Women are attracted to men they respect. They cannot be attracted to a man they do not. So command respect (do not demand it), and be assertive and look out for yourself. There will be times this makes her not like you (that is ok!), but she WILL respect you (which is what you want!).

[LH19]

I don't know what really works for WAW that makes them come back to the marriage.

Time and space are the only thing that turns these situations around long-term.

[Traveler]

Hi Peter, some forum members have turned affair or other situations around.

Those situations took many months. The WAS had to face the possibility of losing their Plan B (spouse), miss them, and be willing to make meaningful amends. Being mean, cold, etc. or "nicing" them are not typically on that path. Being able to validate their feelings, face and correct any misbehaviors that contributed to the relationship's downfall, setting boundaries that respect you and your values and enable you to endure this, and moving on can all be helpful.

Be that success story who gets the girl in the end (if you still want her) like Steve, May, or a couple of others here. Show us your attempts at validation. Tell us about your 180s and GAL game. What boundaries are you setting that respect you, your values, and enable you to endure this?

Steve mentions sex and owning the master bedroom. Not everyone comes to the same conclusions--what's consistent with your values, helping you detach, and helping her miss you? If I recall correctly, May's husband slept in the basement while in affair mode.

If you choose sex, read up on being safe with casual sex partners who are simultaneously sleeping with others. Common precautions include condoms and regular STI screenings. As they say, if you aren't ready to talk about safe sex, you're not ready to have it!

[PeterB]

I always say don't validate BS behavior like if she says you caused her to have an affair. But if you treated her bad (which I am sure at some point you did) then just respond with "I understand how that may have hurt you".

Yeah, no way I am going to condone the affair. I am trying to deal with it in my mind. I never imagined she would do that.

Bad behavior: Yelling at her, getting annoyed over 'simple things' (simple according to her), not able to share things with me fearing that I will get annoyed, not satisfying her sexually.

Is this true? So you can 180 this with patience and validation. The sex part sounds like she is trying to cut you. She wants a D is sleeping with another man but yet still has sex with you even though it's not satisfying. Sounds logical.

Sex is pretty satisfying to her right now. But there have been many years of poor sex because of certain problems with me (don't want to TMI here). Suffice to say that currently I am as good as I was in college . Is this whole thing logical - it's not! Should I tell her something like "I think we should stop having sex"? What if she asks "Why?" in response?

She said that to me directly as she is sure that I am the cause of all fights (which is quite inaccurate, although I admit that many fights were because I ran my mouth). Otoh I distinctly remember that she would get really mean and then even though I would try very hard to avoid the fight from escalating she would deliberately come at me again and again and finally break me.

So learning to control your emotions should be on your 180 list.

Yes, working hard on that. Trying to slow-mo my interactions. Seems to be working. Need to sustain that.

I have strong family values but I understand that yelling is not consistent with maintaining a family.

But yet apparently you do because you can't control your emotions.

Very true. I would go into a mental spiral of repeatedly asking why is this happening, please stop, please stop. I now realize that it was a terrible type of weakness. I wonder how other people have controlled these situations? I am trying to slow-mo and detach, basically be in the moment yet see it from outside to inside. Also accept that it is happening.

Regarding the D bomb, I am certain that she has not thought about her son at all. She said that she cannot sacrifice her life for him. Her family has got involved and they think similarly. I am devoted to my child otoh. How do I make her be more considerate about our son and the effect of divorce on him?

Peter you can't make her do anything. She knows a D will affect your son. Right now she doesn't care.

Ok point taken. I hope she feels the weight of responsibility at some point through self-analysis. I am not going to hold my breath for that though.

What should I do about her affair? She has been thinking of living separately - should I object to it?

I am getting a sense you are a control freak. You will soon learn the only person you can control is yourself. The quicker you learn the better you will do at DBing.

"... the only person you can control is yourself" - I have learnt that to a good extent and that has helped me tremendously. Actually, it led me to implement the '180' approach. But I can't say the learning is perfect. I feared that without having to deal with a family environment, she might drift even further. But I suppose it can have the opposite effect too.

Good thing is that I am able to respond quickly to the helpful comments in this thread. So I will get this fear out of my head.

If you know she is having sex with someone else you should not be having sex with her right now. Have you been tested for STDs?

No testing yet but I have not felt anything. OM is long distance, so she is not having physical contact right now. The EA is on however - I know because of her secretive behavior over phone.

She has mentioned some of the things her friends, and counselor have told her about me and I found those downright evil of them as they have never met me. What should I tell her about her continuing discussions with them? I know that everytime she discuss with them it sets us back by miles.

You can't control her Peter.

Sounds good. First 3 weeks I did bring up her IC and friends. I have not since then. Her mom is running her mouth too and has selectively revealed stuff to a few gossipy people who are close to my parents. But I just ignore all this and not bring it up with her. Probably not give any importance to it in my mind either?

[LH19]

Sex is pretty satisfying to her right now. But there have been many years of poor sex because of certain problems with me (don't want to TMI here). Suffice to say that currently I am as good as I was in college . Is this whole thing logical - it's not! Should I tell her something like "I think we should stop having sex"? What if she asks "Why?" in response?

Ok so if no PA then you should get tested or wear a condom. You can continue to do it if you can emotionally handle it and know that it means nothing.

Very true. I would go into a mental spiral of repeatedly asking why is this happening, please stop, please stop. I now realize that it was a terrible type of weakness. I wonder how other people have controlled these situations? I am trying to slow-mo and detach, basically be in the moment yet see it from outside to inside. Also accept that it is happening.

If you are familar with the "stages of grief" you are in the bargaining phase. Google it as it will help you understand where you are in the process.

Ok point taken. I hope she feels the weight of responsibility at some point through self-analysis. I am not going to hold my breath for that though.

I am going to shoot straight with you Peter because I feel you can handle it. It is going to be a really long time before she feels the weight of responsibility. Likely years after your are divorced.

"... the only person you can control is yourself" - I have learnt that to a good extent and that has helped me tremendously. Actually, it led me to implement the '180' approach. But I can't say the learning is perfect. I feared that without having to deal with a family environment, she might drift even further. But I suppose it can have the opposite effect too.

You can't bring her any closer or push her further away unless you come completely unhinged. She is on a journey and nothing you can say or do will likely alter that process. Give her time and space.

Sounds good. First 3 weeks I did bring up her IC and friends. I have not since then. Her mom is running her mouth too and has selectively revealed stuff to a few gossipy people who are close to my parents. But I just ignore all this and not bring it up with her. Probably not give any importance to it in my mind either?

Yeah you can't control what her mom or anyone else says about you. You can only control how you react to it.

You are doing well. Keep posting.

[Traveler]

Should I tell her something like "I think we should stop having sex"? What if she asks "Why?" in response?

Less talky announcements about future behavior, more action in the present. If you decide not to have sex, the next time she asks, say "No." If she asks why, tell her. "You're having an affair."

She said that to me directly as she is sure that I am the cause of all fights (which is quite inaccurate.. although I admit that many fights

I remember my "Try not to fight" days, when I was still pushing partners away! You're responsible for every fight you're in--a fight takes two people. It's great you're working on this. Remind yourself that you drive you car. Your XW can yell, cry, etc. from the backseat but it's up to you if you ram others.

But yet apparently you do because you can't control your emotions.

I have strong family values but I understand that yelling is not consistent with maintaining a family.

It's great you accept this is not consistent with your idea of being a great parent or partner.

I would go into a mental spiral of repeatedly asking why is this happening, please stop, please stop. I now realize that it was a terrible type of weakness. I wonder how other people have controlled these situations?

It's grief. It's normal when your world falls apart. As long as you got ahold of yourself within a few days, I'd focused more on long-term problem behaviors like yelling and fighting. I sleep on big decisions.

Peter you can't make her do anything. She knows a D will affect your son. Right now she doesn't care.

Ok point taken. I hope she feels the weight of responsibility at some point...

It's great you've accepted you can't control her.

No testing yet but I have not felt anything. OM is long distance, so she is not having physical contact right now.

Peter, that's not how STIs work at all. Statistically, most adults in the world have an STI. You start to notice this if you require your partners to get tested and look at their results instead of relying on their guess that they're "clean". Like a cold or flu, you can be contagious without presenting symptoms. Each time you sleep with an infected partner, your chance of catching what they have increases. Wearing condoms can dramatically increase your chances of staying safe. If you believe she had a physical affair, the only way to know her or your current STI status is for you each to get tested. Don't add to the people here who got STIs from a cheating partner.

Probably not give any importance to it in my mind either?

What they do may be important; you still don't control their actions.

[Kind18]

Hi Peter. Welcome to the forum.

Should I tell her something like "I think we should stop having sex"? What if she asks "Why?" in response?

Q: If you were in her shoes, how would this come across?
A: You would think she is weak as [censored].

As SteveLW says, women can’t be in a healthy relationship with men they don’t respect.

Don’t go out of your way to tell her anything. But next time she tries to initiate sex, say “I don’t want sex with someone who is having an affair.” Make sure it’s a stark, clear boundary but don’t dwell on it or get pulled into a discussion. Immediately end the discussion, or even go to sleep/go out.

She might be enjoying sex with you physically atm, but she has zero respect for you because you’re willing to do that in the knowledge she’s with someone else.

And don’t do this to punish her or teach her a lesson… do it because you have self respect and boundaries.

[Traveler]

Well said, Kind. "I think we should stop having sex?" is PASSIVE--deferring the decision about what he wants to do with his body to his wife. People respect guys more capable of ACTIVELY making decisions for themselves (which is different than AGGRESSIVELY trying to make decisions for other people).

And don’t do this to punish her or teach her a lesson… do it because you have self respect and boundaries.

Right. This isn't angry or cold retribution. This is choosing what's right for your mind and body.