Need advice please

[Kind18]

I did truly want her to have it
And too see her again because I did know it truly was the end.

I’m sorry Dink, but I need to be blunt.

Your big argument was, amongst other things, because you manipulated her. You wanted to see her again (your words, not mine) and so that’s why you didn’t tell her what it was you had for her. She came and got pissed off because she felt manipulated into coming to see you (which is entirely what happened).

I’m not going to tell you what you should have done instead. Or what you could have said differently, because you shouldn’t be saying anything at all.

The last few posters told you that you should be drawing a hard line on communication and strictly limiting it. That’s because if you don’t, this stuff happens and makes things even worse.

I know the emotional part of you still wants to see her/be around her. I get it. We ALL get it. How do you just switch off how you feel?

But the answer to that is simply that if you don’t take the hard steps to go silent and limit all conversation, you’re only hurting yourself even more.

I know it’s hard - but the advice on this forum and from the veterans is right and should be heeded. If you choose to ignore it, you’ll be back here again and again saying “I stuffed up.”

What are YOU doing to keep busy? Exercise? Hobbies? Socialisation? Now is the time to focus 0% on her and 100% on you.

[SteveLW]

Friday night we had a big argument. I screwed up again.. After meeting on Thursday and informing her I too was onboard with divorce I had to go to the lake house to get stuff and she said that was ok, as she wouldn’t be there. I had type a closure type letter that I left for her when I went to lake house. It just basically said even in those years I was emotionally unavailable I did still love you, even though you said I couldn’t have if I did what I did. I said that is why I never left.. I said I am telling you this for you to know, and for me to find closure. And it did make me feel better as I finally accepted the end to our marriage and seemed at peace. Friday night she texted me at about 7 am to say thank you for the letter, it was very hard to read and made me cry but I appreciate you being honest and telling me. I reply no problem. I was at the house I am staying at and she was at her mothers who is a block away and I said I do have something here for you if you want to pick it up and she said what is it and I said you will see. She said ok, it better not upset me. I said it shouldn’t . It was a writing I did for her years ago that she really liked. She said she would stop on her way to lake house. She stopped and I was lying down, and she came and said so what do you have, I said it sitting on stove. She went to stove to get it and came back and said why didn’t you tell me that this was what it was. I do want it but I didn’t need to get it tonight. She said it’s like you manipulated me by not telling me what it was, and got pissed. Then of course stuff got heat and we went back and forth until she finally left about a hour later. I did truly want her to have it
And too see her again because I did know it truly was the end. We unfortunately rehashed old wounds and she said im done being controlled and manipulated by you and left like I said about a hour later. The very next morning she called me at about 10 am to tell me that her grandma who is going to be 101 in July who just had hip replace surgery three days ago had a major GI bleed and was on the way to the hospital. She said she wanted to apologized for how thing escalated last night and ask if we could return to more of a civil tone like when we meet Thursday. I said yes.
She threw out a lot of hurtfull thing at me Friday, which maybe I deserved. She then later that day texted me to give me a update on Her grandma. I was very upset
At how things escalated Friday night, and some of hurtful things she said whether warranted or not,
And I was just being courteous in my reply. The today my sister called me and said she would come over today to help me with some stuff at the house im staying at to get it ready to sell. When she arrived we were talking a little about what happened the night before with my wife and I. Abou a half hour after my sister arrived she started down and said she wasn't feel very well and thought maybe she need something to eat, so we were going to go get something. When she stop up she started walking towards me by the door and then just stopped, and I said are you ok, and she didn't say anything. So I went up by her and she said something do feel right and she collapsed. I caught her and her eyes were just staring straight ahead and I keep saying her name but she did respond, the suddenly she star blinking and said that was weird. I slowly helped her up and she said ok I might need some fresh air. I'm holding her and we walk a few more feet to front door and I open it and she steps outside, and again say something doesn't feel right and was looking straight ahead with like a blank stare and collapsed again and I caught her and keep yelling her name and she did respond and when I helped her sit down she started blinking her eyes and so ok, thoat was so weird again. She asked for a drink and I got her one, and she said she was feeling a little better and I said I think I need to take to to the ER and we went to have her checked out. At ER the took her back and I waited for her. While I was waiting I sent I message to our family group chat which includes my three kids and their spouses and me and my wife. My wife tried calling me but I didn't answer, then she tried calling me 5 times over the next 2 hours and sent me three text telling me to please call her. I never did but I did keep them all updated thru the group chat. They finally cam out and said the ran test did a car scan, ekg and everything looked normal. The think it had something to do with a new medicine she recently started. I know I should have probably respond to my wife, but the previous night just had me not wanting to. I still haven't return a call or text, but she is aware that my sister is ok from our group message. I truly do know this is over, but after the way things went down the last couple weeks I just didn't want to allow my self to let her try to comfort me at this time ...

Dink, yes you are right. This was a screw up. You talk to your STBXW wayyyyy too much. It is obvious you are trying to hold on. People say things, and they do things. The things they do belie their true intentions. The things they say are not indicative, they are only what is convenient, comfortable, and necessary at the moment. So when you say you know it is over, but then your actions are the opposite of that, people have to look at the things you are DOING and not the things you are saying. If a stranger (me) on the internet can pick up on this, then you have to understand that she (your STBXW) certainly can too!

Manipulation attempts are one of the worst things a LBS can do in their situations. WASs almost always see right through them. This is why we encourage LBSs to DB (GAL, 180s, detach) truly and sincerely for themselves, not to try to manipulate the spouse back to the marriage. Is it hard? Yes! Especially if you have a history of controlling and manipulative behavior. 180s/self-improvement DEMAND working on those behaviors. Dink, we've seen a lot of the LBSs here. Some come here, listen to the advice, work on themselves, and improve. Lots of examples of that. But others come here, read the advice, respond (and even sometimes argue) with it, then go and do what comes intuitively and natural to them. Those latter LBSs struggle mightily because they are unwilling to try to change what got them into their situation to begin with.

I am not saying all of this to 2x4 you. I am simply pointing out what I am observing. The chorus here is to back away from her, give her time and space, do not be so available to her, and certainly do not try to control and manipulate. And then you go back to the same behaviors you always engaged in.

I really like the way you handled her with your sister in the ER. Not calling her back. Not responding to her texts. I would like it EVEN more if you gave her what she wants and removed her from the group message ENTIRELY.

At this point you need to go dark. (LRT) You need to never answer her phone calls, certainly never call her. If she texts with a direct question, answer it in as few words as possible, but not right away (remember you are out GAL!). No greetings and salutations. No closings. No courtesies, just business like. Yes and no questions should get yes or no answers.

Ex: Her: How is your sister doing?
You (30 minutes later): She is much better.
Her: Okay I was really worried about her.
You do not respond since there was no question.
Her after some time: Did you see what I texted?
You after 20 minutes: Yes
Her: Why are you not responding?
You after 30 minutes: Really busy

That's how you should be interacting with her now. She fired you as her husband. You need to stop trying to continue to be that.

[Dink]

Your are completely right Steve, and I know I screwed up. Its hard some day knowing she has some one to talk to in OM and to keep her occupied. Part of the reason I did what I did on Friday where I guess I manipulated her, so I could talk was to try to get a firm time on tellling the kids, but I should of handled it differently. I do have my sister and friends but I haven’t been able to yet as we still haven’t talked to the kids. And out of respect to them I want them to know first, then that will make things easier I believe for me as I can then Talk to more people openingly. There has been so much going on with me and her, her grandma now my sister in the last week. But yes, I need to absolutely go dark. Yesterdays ordeal with my sister scared the [censored] out of me as I thought she was having a stroke, and that is what killed my brother at age 50. My mind and emotions have been everywhere. I know there have been way worse stories than mine and probably way better stories on her than mine, but I need to commit to my story and as you said go dark and only short responses if needed at all. I appreciate you all for the tough love and help provided to me. Now I just need to take the info and not just partially implement it but full commit to it.

[Dink]

I have been working at our other house I am currently staying at to get it ready to put up for sale.
Some days im more motivated than others right now. This past week with her grandma, and with my son being taken to the ER with 103.3 temps On Friday, and then yesterday when my sister collapsed and my house and taking her to the hospital where my wife’s grandma is at has just been a lot , but still no excuse with not following the rules that you all have been trying to get me to consistently do. I just need to get telling the kids out of the way,as this will open up more people I can talk to and help keep me busy while getting a life. As Sandi and her rules talk about and how Sandi her self who was a wayward wife tells….this isn’t the same wife I married and she has a cold cold heart towards me etc.

[BL42]

Dink,

She said it’s like you manipulated me by not telling me what it was, and got pissed. Then of course stuff got heat and we went back and forth until she finally left about a hour later.

She was right. Asking her to come over to pick up an emotionally charged item was manipulative on your part, and predictably resulted in a fight. That's why it's recommended here to drop the rope, no R talks, no fights. The attempts on your part hurt your detachment and the manipulation/fights only increase her resentment.

While I was waiting I sent I message to our family group chat which includes my three kids and their spouses and me and my wife. My wife tried calling me but I didn't answer, then she tried calling me 5 times over the next 2 hours and sent me three text telling me to please call her. I never did but I did keep them all updated thru the group chat.

Time to set up a group chat for you and your kids, without W. My guess is part of you wanted your W to know there was an issue and then by not answering you were punishing her. She's divorcing you and living with OM. Just leave her out of your family's business going forward.

Yesterdays ordeal with my sister scared the [censored] out of me as I thought she was having a stroke, and that is what killed my brother at age 50.

Sorry about your sister. That must have been scary. Hope she's alright.

This past week with her grandma, and with my son being taken to the ER with 103.3 temps On Friday, and then yesterday when my sister collapsed and my house and taking her to the hospital where my wife’s grandma is at has just been a lot

It is a lot. Hang in there.

but still no excuse with not following the rules that you all have been trying to get me to consistently do.

Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves up.

You made a mistake. You won't be the first or last here to do so. Do better going forward. You'll get through this.

[JosephS]

You didn’t need to see her to nail down a concrete time to tell the kids. That could easily be done with an email or two.

I understand your kids are older, but telling them so you have more people to talk to isn’t the healthiest of reasons. Also, please don’t use the kids as a tool to see her or attempt to shame her into coming back. I’m not saying you are or would, but the writing is on the wall IMO.

Last thing, you talk to her way much. You aren’t giving her an opportunity to miss you, or a reason too miss you. In the absolute simplest of terms, people want what they can’t have.

[Core]

Dink, sorry to hear about the additional turmoil with the family. When it rains, it pours isn't just a saying to relate to, sometimes it's a terrifying reality. You're faced with something here Dink. Bleakness, reality, fate, pain, turbulence, turmoil and maybe you can see what feels to be rock bottom. If you hit that bottom, will you take a pickaxe and dig? Will you lay down? Or, can you see what's coming, stare at it and let that wave of pain give you the energy and drive to stand up to it? Can you be the equal and opposite reaction to the hell you are facing? Imagine being the man that can conquer all this, years later, over a drink with friends telling the story. How did you get through it? Alone? With lifelines? Did random strangers on a forum help you brace the onslaught and you lead the charge against it? You aren't and don't have to be alone.

Post often, even if we are critical. Especially if we are critical. Get some solid exercise in. Heavy weights, cut some wood, punching bag. These feelings may turn to anger and taking that anger out in a testosterone filled exercise rage makes you feel alive.

[Dink]

Currently we still haven’t told the kids and if I suggest another group chat they will know something’s it up. The group chat isn’t from our phones, it a app called group me. So unfortunately
It is what it is regarding that. Once the kids know I will suggest a separate group message.

[Dink]

Well we do have to tell them and because of has happened this week with everything we haven’t been able to do it. I just don’t want to be talking and telling other people about our divorce with the kids not knowing. I have now started talking with my sister which has helped some.

[SteveLW]

I'd just tell them. No need to coordinate that with her. Just my opinion.