WW: "I'm not going to let you make me feel guilty"

[Traveler]

I've heard it's difficult to find single childless women if you're a single father, is this really true?

I have not found it to be. I date about as many women with kids as without kids. If they’re 40s and have no kids, there’s usually a reason for that they’ve accepted. E.g., unable, ethically prefer not to add to world population, prioritizing other activities, etc.

I don't think I want to get married ever again, not after what WW did to me.

That baggage could be problematic, though. Nobody likes to be treated a certain way because of what someone else did to you. Try to process that trauma.

[SteveLW]

It's been mostly quiet though WW is telling me "I left YOU not the kids and I have 50/50 custody."

She needs to think she's still a good mother, even after moving out of state from her two teenaged daughters. And needs to think you're to blame.

I told her I'm part of the family, that you can't take me out the equation and say this when a family includes me, the marital home, the kids, the pets, the furnishings and the lifestyle.

I told her she left the marital home, which by extension includes the things that make up a home, so she did abandon the family.

Very true

As it is, i have my oldest child six days a week. She does duty visits to her mother on Friday. I have my youngest almost 60% of the week.

Good you're there for your daughters. How are they doing with all this?

I also found out she blocked some mutual friends on FB who've been friends of ours for over ten years. They were surprised because they never treated her any differently.

As far as the blocking of mutual friends. Not surprising at all. When my wife went wayward, I was absolutely SHOCKED at how readily she was willing to discard people in her life.

So true on the discarding of people in their lives, especially those who wouldn't approve of the behaviors, and embracing those who do approve/encourage it.

Drh2001 - With the divorce finalized, have you explored dating at all?

Hi BL42,

I asked my eldest child and she said she's used to the situation now. She does get sad at times.

As for dating I have no clue what I'm looking for or where to start. I don't think I want to date someone with kids and I don't want anymore of my own. I don't think I want to get married ever again, not after what WW did to me.

I've heard it's difficult to find single childless women if you're a single father, is this really true?

I've been very busy with house projects and still have a lot to do so the time goes quickly.

I'm not sure "childless" is a good criteria. Date single women. If the right one has kids of her own, so be it. Not sure how'd you feel if you meet someone you like and she says "if only you didn't have kids".

[BL42]

Drh2001,

I've heard it's difficult to find single childless women if you're a single father, is this really true?

I have not found it to be. I date about as many women with kids as without kids. If they’re 40s and have no kids, there’s usually a reason for that they’ve accepted. E.g., unable, ethically prefer not to add to world population, prioritizing other activities, etc.

I'm not sure "childless" is a good criteria. Date single women. If the right one has kids of her own, so be it. Not sure how'd you feel if you meet someone you like and she says "if only you didn't have kids".

I'm sure it's a factor. Before marriage I definitely preferred women who had not been previously married and did not have kids, so I'm sure there are woman out there today who aren't looking to date a single father (and probably more so the childless women with that preference than those who already have kids), but then there are also those who are open to it.

In terms of your preference, it's like any factor you're filtering on...it simply reduces the options. Just as if you only wanted a certain hair color, or height range, or religion...whatever. Anytime you place a constraint on the search you get fewer results. And in the dating pool at our age there are a higher percentage of women with kids than when we were ten years younger. But it doesn't mean you can't find someone who fits your needs.

I'm taking the SteveLW approach. Single is a requirement, but not ruling out women with kids - for me it seems tough to take that stance when I myself have them - and they may actually be more understanding and fit in with my life and situation because of it.

I don't think I want to get married ever again, not after what WW did to me.

That baggage could be problematic, though. Nobody likes to be treated a certain way because of what someone else did to you. Try to process that trauma.

I agree with CWarrior. It's understandable some folks here might be tentative about remarrying, but assume the majority of folks in the dating pool are looking to get married at some point so by ruling it out completely it takes away options (or sets someone up to be hurt).

[ScottB]

DRH: Your story just continues to be so similar in a lot of ways. It’s funny how these things seem to rhyme. I bet the folks that have been here a long time have gotten pretty good at predicting the future of these things.

In the dating front, I jumped in on that - maybe a bit early, but c’est la vie. I’m 43 and I’ve only dated women that don’t have kids of their own between the ages of 43 and 29. It’s been fun. It’s a learning experience. I’Ve only tried Tinder and Bumble and I like Bumble better. When I signed up I was able to pay $200 one time to unlock all the premium features, and that’s been the way to go. I locked my account down so that no one can see my profile unless it select them, which gives me some control over who I meet. I would also be able to let my profile be out there and then just select from the women that select me.

Some base rules in your picture, if you try it. No pictures of you with fish or dead animals, no pictures of you with your car or in your car, no gym selfies, and no selfies in the bathroom. Good luck. Try it out and see if dating is for you, if not you can always shut it down.

[ScottB]

A couple more things; if you don’t want to date someone who has kids, then don’t. That’s simple. We each get to make those kinds of choices. Because you have kids isn’t relevant, you do you and go for what you want.

As for marrying again, might be a little early to make that call but who knows. Maybe consider being open minded on that front? Just a thought - because in reading your posts it doesn’t feel like you have truly closed that door. How about, your just not ready to get married now, you focus on living in the present, and the future will take care of itself.

And if you have a good job, are a good dad, and are fit, there will be plenty of incredible women out there. Oddly there are more women out there than quality men, so again, feel free to be selective. There is nothing wrong with that.

[BL42]

I’Ve only tried Tinder and Bumble and I like Bumble better.

You might try Hinge. In my (admittedly limited) experience Tinder is cluttered with a lot of spam and trashy profiles, whereas Hinge has a lot more real/viable/normal-looking women.

A couple more things; if you don’t want to date someone who has kids, then don’t. That’s simple. We each get to make those kinds of choices. Because you have kids isn’t relevant, you do you and go for what you want.

I agree w/this. If it's a strong preference or requirement for you than do it, but just know it's going to limit the pool to some extent (especially at our age). I like kids and am open to the possibility of meeting a woman with them.

[SteveLW]

A couple more things; if you don’t want to date someone who has kids, then don’t. That’s simple. We each get to make those kinds of choices. Because you have kids isn’t relevant, you do you and go for what you want.

I agree w/this. If it's a strong preference or requirement for you than do it, but just know it's going to limit the pool to some extent (especially at our age). I like kids and am open to the possibility of meeting a woman with them.

I should point out that I agree as well. I think it is hypocritical a bit "You can't have kids but you better accept mine." But yes, if it is a strong preference or requirement then so be it. My above answer was related to what BL42 points out, that you will potentially be eliminating a fairly large pool of women, and potentially some really good matches.

[Drh2001]

Thanks for the advice and apologies for taking so long to reply.

Def a lot to think about. I can't even imagine long term anything so might just stick to short term dating.

I hardly have anytime what with being in grad school, working full time and being a full time dad to two daughters.


So recent developments and sorry this is a bit long...

My daughter spent a week in hospital and I saw exWW there. Obviously with emergencies, things can change but her attitude did not.

She told me she will "unblock my number" so for a short time we texted about the kids. One morning I was driving my kid to school and she said "Mommy doesn't like it when you talk to her cousin."

I did text exWW to tell her that my keeping in touch with this person has nothing to do with her and wasn't done to spite her or cause problems.

She wrote back and had the nerve to tell me that it hurts her when I talk to her cousin and crosses a boundary. I told her not to talk about herself and boundaries in the same sentence and reminded her that she destroyed my relationship with her sister and another friend of the family.

She responded that I had lost the respect of her sister and another friend even though they were the ones who aided and abetted her adultery and told her to cover her tracks, delete her emails etc.

There was nothing abusive or rude about the texts I send her. Her last text to me was "Good bye"

I told her I would block her again and did. I also blocked her email. The only contact we have is through Google calendar which is solely used for the kids.


Why should I have to lose my existing good relationships with ppl because exWW dug a hole for herself?



Now this cousin of exWW is much older, like 70. She always treats everyone the same and continued to reach out to me and ask me how I am, how are the kids etc. She is close to the kids and is upset that WW doesn't visit her with them.

This cousin always hosted parties at her house (pre pandemic) and would invite the whole family - for July 4th get togethers, New Year's Eve parties etc - in the last two years she realized that no one bothers with her or asks her how she is doing. As a result, she has stopped hosting parties and get togethers. She told me that exWW and her sister don't bother with her and don't stay in touch.

On rare occasions, if I'm in the neighborhood, I'll stop by with the kids so they can still have that contact with family. Obviously I told the cousin that I could no longer attend family events since I am divorced but I'm ok with stopping by to check in on her. Why should the kids be deprived of family?

exWW has not changed her attitude one bit. She is still wayward in every sense. She resents me because I refuse to speak with her and says "you can't make me disappear". She doe not want to accept that things have changed due to her actions. She wants everything to continue as it once was with no consequences of any kind. The fallout from her actions has affected the family and extended family.

I wrote exWW a final email telling her that if you can't take ownership, accountability and responsibility for what you have done, then I want nothing more to do with you and please don't ever contact me again.

I recently read something interesting, that if you start acting friendly and chummy with a wayward, it teaches kids that it's okay for a parent to commit adultery, break up a family because in the end, everyone will be friends again. If I were to go this route I would be disrespecting myself and next thing I would be chummy with OM. Associating with an exWW would be akin to swimming in a pool and expecting to get out without smelling of chlorine.

Sandy was correct when she mentioned waywardness is like a disease that affects everyone around a WW and I don't want to disrespect myself by associating with her.

On a reddit threat it spoke about no contact having an effect - first there is loss of the BS, followed by "loss consciousness" which is awareness the BS has disappeared. Then comes "fault consciousness" which is when the wayward realized that mistakes have been made and a line has been crossed.

Without "loss and fault consciousness" a wayward will never become fully aware of what they have done and the effects it has had.

I'm not doing this to get her back because I don't think I would ever want her back even if she did have a change of heart, but neither will I just accept her decisions and her bad behavior because she still has that very resentful, disrespectful and rebellious attitude towards me.

She keeps saying what she has done is in the past and I should just move on and let it be but I told her I am living in the present with the consequences of what she has done in the past and they will reverberate into the future.

So I maintain no contact with exWW and that's just how I like it. I am slowly rebuilding my life and starting to get back into shape. It's a long process though.

[Valeska19]

So recent developments and sorry this is a bit long...

My daughter spent a week in hospital and I saw WW there. Obviously with emergencies, things can change but her attitude did not.

She told me she will "unblock my number" so for a short time we texted about the kids. One morning I was driving my kid to school and she said "Mommy doesn't like it when you talk to her cousin"

Her unblocking you for the kids sake makes sense.... Until you go ahead and do this.

I texted WW to tell her that my keeping in touch with this person has nothing to do with her and wasn't done to spite her or cause problems.

Another option would have been to just listen to your D. What was the point and taking your kid's comment and texting your XW? Seems like an emotional response here.

She wrote back and had the nerve to tell me that it hurts her when I talk to her cousin and crosses a boundary. I told her not to talk about herself and boundaries in the same sentence and I reminded her that she destroyed my relationship with her sister and another friend of the family.

She responded that "I had lost the respect of her sister and another friend even though they were the ones who aided and abetted her adultery and told her to cover her tracks, delete her emails etc.

There was nothing abusive or rude about the texts I send her. Her last text was "Good bye"

Really?
From the outside - it looks like you got angry and texted her. She got defensive. You continued to 'remind' her of all she did to you. You got triggered and took it out on her.. when this could have ALL been avoided by not engaging at all

I told her I would block her again and did. I also blocked her email. The only contact we have is through Google calendar which is solely used for the kids.

I can't imagine this will work long term.

Why should I have to lose my existing good relationships with ppl because WW dug a hole for herself?

Well honestly... because it comes with Divorce. D - Are you being honest with yourself? Because what you say ^^^ doesn't match the following.

Now this cousin of WW is much older, like 70. She always treats everyone the same and continued to reach out to me and ask me how I am, how are the kids etc. She is close to the kids and is upset that WW doesn't visit her with them.

If this is your TRUE reason then next time - try this.

"Wife. I understand that this may be difficult for you but cousin and the kids relationship is important to one another. Because of this - I will continue to take them to visit her."

This cousin always hosted parties at her house (pre pandemic) and would invite the whole family - for July 4th get togethers, New Year's Eve parties etc - in the last two years she realized that no one bothers with her or asks her how she is doing. As a result, she has stopped hosting parties and get togethers. She told me that WW and her sister don't bother with her and don't stay in touch.

If I'm in the neighborhood, I will occasionally stop by with the kids so they can still have that contact with family. Obviously I told the cousin that I could no longer attend family events since I am divorced but I'm ok with stopping by to check in on her.

[quote=Drh2001]Why should the kids be deprived of family? The eldest one said she misses her family in another state because WW had a falling out with her other relative because her relative disapproved of WW's adultery and her leaving me for another man.

Are you listening and validating their feelings?? Or are you trying to use it as ammo for something?

I wrote WW a final email telling her that if you can't take ownership, accountability and responsibility for what you have done, then I want nothing more to do with you and please don't ever contact me again..

This is NOT a boundary. You gave your wife an ultimatum. Another control tactic.

But neither will I just accept her decisions and her bad behavior because she still has that very resentful, disrespectful and rebellious attitude towards me.

She keeps saying what she has done is in the past and I should just move on and let it be but I told her I am living in the present with the consequences of what she has done in the past and they will reverberate into the future.

So I maintain no contact with exWW and that's just how I like it. I am slowly rebuilding my life and starting to get back into shape. It's a long process though.

D- I am reading so much hurt and anger in your post. No contact is probably good... but not because of her... but because you literally can't communicate with her w/o spewing your pain and hurt all over her.

No one says you have to put up with bad behavior... but you are trying to show her that versus just doing it regardless of what she thinks.

Stop punishing her and criticizing her. Life will do that all on its own and it doesn't need your help.

[KitCat]

The biggest gift I could give myself was learning to be empathetic with my S and accepting where my spouse currently is....

If I felt triggered by something I always tried to give myself the time and space to understand the why. If after 12hr or 24hr I still felt the need to respond I tried to use "I feel" statements. I feel upset when I hear thru the kids you don't like my relationship with X. It removes blame.

Before responding to something think 10 10 10... how does this help me or affect in the next 10min, 10 days, 10months/years. 90% of the time responding to something filtered thru the kids is so not worth your circus or your money, but I can completely see how you felt... it was real... it was frustrating and hurtful to hear your child make those statements. Try in the future just validating your child with I see OR of if your child is old enough with how does rhat make you feel?

These situations knock the wind out of you for sure... they cut, they sting...

Your goal is to work hard on not responding out of emotion.

Blocking and unblocking are signs of severe hurt coupled with emotional immaturity.

When you can look through your spouses lens and see how she might feel betrayed that her cousin is "siding" with you and that it's her family and not yours. You can appreciate your child's comment comes from place of her hurt and less so about controlling you directly.

The human brain is wired to fill empty spaces with negative thoughts. This was key to our primitive survival... we had to suspicious of what MAY be hidden in the bush even if we had no proof there was something dangerous there.

Overall, there is no lasting harm here in your situation. Just another lesson and another goal of not reacting out of emotion. It takes a lot if hard work and focus to get there.