#19 - Still working through Ring & Piecing

[LH19]

I can say in my latest situation, that after 2 days of making the mistake of being emotional and reacting the way she expected me to, I remember MWD and her writings, and started to pull back from that. And the lack of surety on my wife's part was almost immediate after I started to back off and have more of an "okay" reaction. I believe that was a factor in my situation turning around more quickly than most.

If I remember correctly you dropped the bomb on her and she said ok and then you begged and pleaded for more than a couple of days and it wasn't until she realized her OM was a fraud and that she would have to get a job she started to rethink things. A real OM and a job probably you would have been toast like the rest of us. But we will never know.

Unfortunately, most LBS that find their way here have already made the mistake of reacting emotionally for weeks and months.

You may need to reread your thread Steve.

One point stood out to me as I read this. We all know that this is a crisis of the WAS and not the LBS. The LBS can only do things to prevent things from getting worse and more importantly focus on their own healing and moving forward. An LBS could do all the right things and the WAS may not care. On the other hand, an LBS could do all the wrong things and the WAS may choose to R.

Yet, there is a lot of cognitive bias in the forum that suggests that actions an LBS took helped with 'turning around situations'. Success or failure does not mean a particular approach is correct and it is important to remember that when we try to relate others' sitch to our own. More often than not, it is out of the hands of the LBS, which is why most of the advice is on self care and healing.

You are a very wise man MLCH and I still want an update. I believe this all to be fate and sometimes you don't find the reasons for a long, long time.

[SteveLW]

Unfortunately, most LBS that find their way here have already made the mistake of reacting emotionally for weeks and months.

One point stood out to me as I read this. We all know that this is a crisis of the WAS and not the LBS. The LBS can only do things to prevent things from getting worse and more importantly focus on their own healing and moving forward. An LBS could do all the right things and the WAS may not care. On the other hand, an LBS could do all the wrong things and the WAS may choose to R.

Yet, there is a lot of cognitive bias in the forum that suggests that actions an LBS took helped with 'turning around situations'. Success or failure does not mean a particular approach is correct and it is important to remember that when we try to relate others' sitch to our own. More often than not, it is out of the hands of the LBS, which is why most of the advice is on self care and healing.

MLC well said. My point is that if LBS start trying to get really good at DBing from second 1, I think they give themselves the BEST chance of saving their marriage. It is no guarantee, mainly because BD is the culmination of months or years of the WAS getting to the crisis point.

I got lucky in that in 2005 my W when confronted immediately said she didn't want a D. It still took about 2 months before she was willing to really commit back to the marriage in full. And months before I could be sure of that. IN 2017, after moping around for two days (my threads make this point clear by the way) I remembered DBing techniques and started trying to put them into practice. I wasn't perfect at it, but got better as time went on. I can say that the more I embraced her plan of getting a job, getting an apartment, and getting a D, the less she seemed convinced that. And when I would get weak and temp check her, she always defaulted to, yes the plan above was still her plan.

But the key is that DBing is for the LBS, so they can move forward happy and healthy no matter what the WAS ultimately decides. We all come here wanting to save our marriages. We end up realizing we need to save ourselves.....and sometimes the marriage is saved in the process.

[BL42]

Maybe some still find it an find the plethora of information they are looking for and do not feel the need to register and post? I know we've had a lot of newcomers that have said in their first post that they had been lurking for a while. So maybe more people are trying to stay anonymous and take the readings they can do here and apply it to their situation.

It is a very common thing to see in an opening post. I did the same...certainly read a good bit before starting my own thread. I think it's natural to want to get a feel for the site and comfortable with it before sharing personal information, especially at a vulnerable time in our lives.

Unfortunately, most LBS that find their way here have already made the mistake of reacting emotionally for weeks and months.

I have a vague recollection of finding this site earlier on in my sitch not long after BD but then getting consumed with my day-to-day sitch. I "re-found" the site months later after consuming tons of other online resources and didn't start posting here until 5 months post-BD right around physical separation and D filing. I wish I had start a thread back in the beginning right when I found the forum initially. Not sure it would've changed the result with my marriage and the divorce, but do believe it would've sped up my strengthening and growth to move forward. I spun in a depression for several months as it was.

The honest answer is ------- this site has not grown.

You tube videos out there of Michele are old and out dated. She has no new presence. What she offers is her personal opinion and what has worked for some couples.

I'm not dissing Michele and her information. It is valuable. But, if you look at the decline of this site is because little new information is being fed into it. If Michele herself cannot free her time for a little attention to the board what about her coaches?

Unless new energy and blood is not pumped into this site it will continue to hover on life support.

KitCat is right. Engagement and fresh content by the founder and associated coaches would lead to more traffic here, and that ties back into my comment on SEO...for whatever reason the investment isn't there to promote the resource as much as it used to be promoted and as much as other sites are.

I do remember from my website marketing days that if you aren't in the first few hits, especially the first page of hits, then you will get very little traffic from the search indexing sites.

That's certainly true in many cases. I think in my case after BD I delved through multiple pages of search results with many different search parameters to find any and all resources that might make a difference, so some will do that, but certainly the top few or first page of results are going to get the bulk of the traffic.

As an example, the two responses below convey the same message but the way it is delivered is different.

It is not about the lack of ability of the person to take 2x4s that are dished out to them. It is about YOU making them trust that 'YOU understand their sitch'. If the person feels you get their sitch, they will be receptive to your advice. If not, they will think you are repeating 'one size fits all' advice and tune you out.

I agree w/MLCxH here. It's not that you shouldn't be honest or blunt but there's certainly a way to make the same point in a more caring and empathetic way which would be received better. You can deliver a message without being cringeworthy. Sometimes two posters make the same underlining point in a thread but I can see why one is received openly but the other feels like a personal attack.

One point stood out to me as I read this. We all know that this is a crisis of the WAS and not the LBS. The LBS can only do things to prevent things from getting worse and more importantly focus on their own healing and moving forward. An LBS could do all the right things and the WAS may not care. On the other hand, an LBS could do all the wrong things and the WAS may choose to R.

Yet, there is a lot of cognitive bias in the forum that suggests that actions an LBS took helped with 'turning around situations'. Success or failure does not mean a particular approach is correct and it is important to remember that when we try to relate others' sitch to our own. More often than not, it is out of the hands of the LBS, which is why most of the advice is on self care and healing.

Good post!

[SteveLW]

I do remember from my website marketing days that if you aren't in the first few hits, especially the first page of hits, then you will get very little traffic from the search indexing sites.

That's certainly true in many cases. I think in my case after BD I delved through multiple pages of search results with many different search parameters to find any and all resources that might make a difference, so some will do that, but certainly the top few or first page of results are going to get the bulk of the traffic.

BL, I was a lot like you. I was going 40-50 hits deep in my web searches. I remember finding this forum and reading from beginning to end all of the links Cadet provided in his welcome email. I was also reading 2-3 books a week at that point. I was voracious in my knowledge gathering. I was like the robot in Short Circuit: "More input, Steph-an-ie!" LOL

[Elbereth]

I’m still pretty much a newbie here compared to many of you. But I wanted to add a few comments based on what I’ve experienced thus far on this site.

PROs:

• As DB is not really out there promoting new content or new releases and there is so much other content out there, google is pushing it down. It’s the way google works, and keeping rank requires activity (linking/relinking) and or funds invested (keywords) and more. This is an issue, yes, but it’s not a sign of the lack of quality of this forum. It’s completely separate.
• The forum is public so many more people are being helped than you know even if they have not joined the forum. I’m amazed when I see the number of anonymous users on the site daily.
• There is so much value in seeing what others have gone through and these threads provide more than just glimpses like a book would. You can see changes over time as well as many more examples that you can relate to.
• There are many of you that continue to remain on this forum to offer support to the newbies. This is hugely valuable. Newbies can support each other but that is different than the guidance that those who have come before us can provide.

CONs:

• Sometimes the infighting over who’s advice is good or bad is a distraction. What is good for one is not good for another and vice versa. Sure, I’ve been offended by some of the advice given to me. And I have a feeling I have offended some others too. It is really hard when all we have are words on a page and we cannot see faces or sense the true emotion. It takes careful attention to try to read when one’s advice or 2x4s are aligned or not. I think seeing the responses to the others on the thread can help to show what advice style is working best for that person.
• The fact that this forum is public is part of the reason numbers might be dropping. With the internet mining and lack of privacy, it is very intimidating to discuss your sitch out here with details that might lead someone to identify the user as you, and use that against you in court, in relationships, or whatever.
• The forum program is outdated, hard to use on mobile devices and not slick like many other new options.

I’m sure I could come up with more, but that is a short list.

For me, this forum has been a lifesaver. I also wish I had known about it sooner. But no one really hunts down DBing book when things are going well. They find it when MRs are collapsing and may never be saved. So this site is really about saving ourselves and finding our own way. But that isn’t what the LBS is feeling when they arrive. You all have helped me to see that I must save myself. You all have also helped me to become a better partner for my next relationship. I am grateful. So very grateful. Thank you!

El

[SteveLW]

I’m still pretty much a newbie here compared to many of you. But I wanted to add a few comments based on what I’ve experienced thus far on this site.

PROs:

• As DB is not really out there promoting new content or new releases and there is so much other content out there, google is pushing it down. It’s the way google works, and keeping rank requires activity (linking/relinking) and or funds invested (keywords) and more. This is an issue, yes, but it’s not a sign of the lack of quality of this forum. It’s completely separate.
• The forum is public so many more people are being helped than you know even if they have not joined the forum. I’m amazed when I see the number of anonymous users on the site daily.
• There is so much value in seeing what others have gone through and these threads provide more than just glimpses like a book would. You can see changes over time as well as many more examples that you can relate to.
• There are many of you that continue to remain on this forum to offer support to the newbies. This is hugely valuable. Newbies can support each other but that is different than the guidance that those who have come before us can provide.

CONs:

• Sometimes the infighting over who’s advice is good or bad is a distraction. What is good for one is not good for another and vice versa. Sure, I’ve been offended by some of the advice given to me. And I have a feeling I have offended some others too. It is really hard when all we have are words on a page and we cannot see faces or sense the true emotion. It takes careful attention to try to read when one’s advice or 2x4s are aligned or not. I think seeing the responses to the others on the thread can help to show what advice style is working best for that person.
• The fact that this forum is public is part of the reason numbers might be dropping. With the internet mining and lack of privacy, it is very intimidating to discuss your sitch out here with details that might lead someone to identify the user as you, and use that against you in court, in relationships, or whatever.
• The forum program is outdated, hard to use on mobile devices and not slick like many other new options.

I’m sure I could come up with more, but that is a short list.

For me, this forum has been a lifesaver. I also wish I had known about it sooner. But no one really hunts down DBing book when things are going well. They find it when MRs are collapsing and may never be saved. So this site is really about saving ourselves and finding our own way. But that isn’t what the LBS is feeling when they arrive. You all have helped me to see that I must save myself. You all have also helped me to become a better partner for my next relationship. I am grateful. So very grateful. Thank you!

El

Dang E. You might consider yourself a newbie, but that was spot on! This may be the best post I've read here on this subject. So insightful, accurate and well said. And I concur 100% with every one of your points!

[Ready2Change]

Do you know the Sternberg's Triangulation Theory of Love?

Thanks for throwing this out there. I have been trying to recall the love single people should hold out for. Found it searching your words.

Consummate Love:Components: Intimacy, Passion, and Commitment

[KitCat]

Do you know the Sternberg's Triangulation Theory of Love?

Thanks for throwing this out there. I have been trying to recall the love single people should hold out for. Found it searching your words.

Consummate Love:Components: Intimacy, Passion, and Commitment

I'm living my life with intention. I'm dating with intention. This is my goal.

If someone tells me on the first date they're trouble at being monogamous, they aren't looking for long term commitment that ends in M, etc., I believe them. Its not my job to try to change them or try to sell them. We simply don't match.

One of the men I met on a dating site who I have chosen to remain friends with admitted "I don't see the point in M again as I've raised my family. I am looking for a long term committed relationship". Me: "I hear you and I think knowing what you want is huge. So many people out there are just winging it and hoping it just works out. I, however, loved being M and I would one day like that for myself". Him: "Well, I suppose if she really wanted M, I could be convinced" Me: Not my job to sell that to you. That leads to resentment. Say, we got M and then one day a big disagreement --- then there is "I didn't even want to get M... YOU did". Nope, sorry... moving on.

I know what I want. I'm not going to make a square peg fit a round hole.

AND ---- LH before you get there... pilot worked out the miscommunication but I'm being cautious as I'm trying my best to not make a square peg fit in a round hole!!!

[LH19]

Do you know the Sternberg's Triangulation Theory of Love?

Thanks for throwing this out there. I have been trying to recall the love single people should hold out for. Found it searching your words.

Consummate Love:Components: Intimacy, Passion, and Commitment

I'm living my life with intention. I'm dating with intention. This is my goal.

If someone tells me on the first date they're trouble at being monogamous, they aren't looking for long term commitment that ends in M, etc., I believe them. Its not my job to try to change them or try to sell them. We simply don't match.

One of the men I met on a dating site who I have chosen to remain friends with admitted "I don't see the point in M again as I've raised my family. I am looking for a long term committed relationship". Me: "I hear you and I think knowing what you want is huge. So many people out there are just winging it and hoping it just works out. I, however, loved being M and I would one day like that for myself". Him: "Well, I suppose if she really wanted M, I could be convinced" Me: Not my job to sell that to you. That leads to resentment. Say, we got M and then one day a big disagreement --- then there is "I didn't even want to get M... YOU did". Nope, sorry... moving on.

I know what I want. I'm not going to make a square peg fit a round hole.

AND ---- LH before you get there... pilot worked out the miscommunication but I'm being cautious as I'm trying my best to not make a square peg fit in a round hole!!!

Well if what you say is true and you want to be married again then IMO you are definitely wasting your time with the pilot.

[SteveLW]

R2C I do take a bit of an exception with any theory that tries to fit things into neat little categories. Something as complex as love is very, very difficult to decompose. Philosophers have tried to do so for centuries. And since no two people are the same, it is difficult to put someone into one of the neat categories. Truth is there are probably multiple types of love/Rs in any one given R. It has been a while since I visited the theory, I should probably do that, but that is my take on psychological theories that try to fit people or things into neat categories.