I am sorry to say that I feel you were one of the worst DBers I've seen here. I don't mean that as an insult or an attack, but an observation. You completely refused to even entertain the concept of detachment. Instead of conceding to that I tried a tough love approach with you.
That's a pretty aggressive statement to say.
EVERYONE's journey is different and THEIR own. Nothing I did makes me the worst at anything or the best.
This board was more of an emotional journey for myself. I poured every bit of stress, frustration, saddness and joy as it happened. Putting it here was WAY better than throwing it at my WS. Because I was able to have a place to put my emotions whenever I did interact with my H I was able to do so in a manner that did not hurt or was destructive to my situation with him.
I heard everyone who participated in my journey but sometimes I had to get those thoughts and feelings out somewhere... the good and bad days. And, yes, I had a lot of bad days but most people do in the beginning.
The most important thing you could have done for me during those times was not using statements or implying that cheaters are liars and you should never take back a spouse who has done either and its just crazy how I would ever want to do that.
^^^^ Those types of statements were the most damaging.
And, over time you became very judgemental.
My value and belief system is not that much different from yours. I see in your recent posts a new and improved Steve!!!! I see you being more supportive and positive for someone and less throwing your own personal beliefs and opinions into someone else's journey.
KC, I appreciate your perspective. But you and I will never see eye to eye on this. I've apologized. I stay out of your thread. I don't know that else you want me to say?
I call them like I see them, but I'm not perfect, no one is. Your H was living with another woman, was listed as her SO in her relative's obituary, and you still got offended when I called him what he was. I do not apologize for that.
Let's agree to disagree and go our separate ways. I wish you the best, and will continue to pray for you as I do everyone on this site.
Last edited by SteveLW; 02/11/2210:38 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hey KitCat, same me (CW) new username. So glad you’re doing well! Hope the vet business and pet are, too. I totally got you leaving. I hope you found what support you needed.
I cringe at, “Still meeting up with ex for car sex” and “You were one of the worst DBrs I’ve seen here”. They’re comments that could be pulled off with the right tone and body language, but without that extra information, could be interpreted as judgmental. Sending that Valentine’s love in all directions—may words be kind, and interpretations gracious.
Hey KitCat, same me (CW) new username. So glad you’re doing well! Hope the vet business and pet are, too. I totally got you leaving. I hope you found what support you needed.
I cringe at, “Still meeting up with ex for car sex” and “You were one of the worst DBrs I’ve seen here”. They’re comments that could be pulled off with the right tone and body language, but without that extra information, could be interpreted as judgmental. Sending that Valentine’s love in all directions—may words be kind, and interpretations gracious.
It wasn't the first time I told her that, but your point is well taken and it will be the very last time.
Traveler, I can always count on you to keep me in line!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
May we’ve had some ups and downs for sure. The issue I had in your sitch is that you were forcing the recon and the remorse was there from your h. I think we have the same beliefs regarding keeping the family together. That’s what it was always about for me it was really about her which she probably sensed which is part of the reason I ended here.
Hi LH, I disagree that I forced the recon-- I asked my H to leave multiple times and he refused (though he came very close). He was 100% free to go-- I was just clear that we weren't going to be BFFs afterwards. Maybe that was manipulative, or perceived as such, but I was just being honest. (That was my line in the sand-- not the PA, but the walking out the door.) I know I could have forced a separation by moving out myself, but I chose not to do that. Or maybe he would have decided to move out on his own if I had promised him we'd be besties once we Ded. Who knows. However, I definitely don't think I forced a recon. I don't think that is possible, anyway-- I only control me, I don't control my H, and it takes two to recon. It is true that he wasn't fully remorseful at the beginning, but that has come with time. Patience was the new skill I had to learn. But it was hard feeling judged and told I did not value myself or whatever.
Originally Posted by Steve
May for kicks I went back and read your first thread. I thought you and I connected pretty well. I related a lot to your situation due to your marital dynamics pre-BD. I am really trying to grow here so if you could point to where I was harsh I'd appreciate it. I really do appreciate your perspective! Thanks for weighing in.
Steve, I did really feel connected to you and you have given me great advice throughout. I can't pinpoint an exact example and I really feel no desire right now to go through my own threads and find something, but perhaps it is because I felt connected to you and respected your advice that it did sting quite a bit when you said to me and/or to others the bits about not taking back a cheater. It wasn't really anything special or different from what you've said to others-- the line between the EA and the PA being very distinct for you and you not really understanding how it would be possible to forgive or live with a spouse who had had a PA. I guess in the end I agree with KC-- there really isn't a need for you to share your boundaries regarding an EA/PA unless you're asked, especially given what almost all of us have been through here. Instead, I might recommend focusing on the poster's own values and boundaries and help them to define where that line might be for themselves, once they can get past the fear and hurt and anger.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
May for kicks I went back and read your first thread. I thought you and I connected pretty well. I related a lot to your situation due to your marital dynamics pre-BD. I am really trying to grow here so if you could point to where I was harsh I'd appreciate it. I really do appreciate your perspective! Thanks for weighing in.
Steve, I did really feel connected to you and you have given me great advice throughout. I can't pinpoint an exact example and I really feel no desire right now to go through my own threads and find something, but perhaps it is because I felt connected to you and respected your advice that it did sting quite a bit when you said to me and/or to others the bits about not taking back a cheater. It wasn't really anything special or different from what you've said to others-- the line between the EA and the PA being very distinct for you and you not really understanding how it would be possible to forgive or live with a spouse who had had a PA. I guess in the end I agree with KC-- there really isn't a need for you to share your boundaries regarding an EA/PA unless you're asked, especially given what almost all of us have been through here. Instead, I might recommend focusing on the poster's own values and boundaries and help them to define where that line might be for themselves, once they can get past the fear and hurt and anger.
Ah, ok, thanks May. I appreciate the feedback. As I've stated in previous messages recently, it isn't that I disagree with ever taking a cheater back. I am not sure how my feelings on PAs got twisted into that. I think it is systemic of our current society to take everything to the extremes. For example, I said KC was one of the worst DBers, but she and Traveler read (and even rewrote it is) as me saying she was THE worst DBer. Not really what I said, but ok, apparently there is no vast middle ground on these things anymore.
I do try to get LBSs to understand, especially those that are religious, that even in cases where their faith is saying "don't D", that the exception is always "unless your spouse has cheated". But I take the feedback that I had become too liberal with my sharing of that. And I can see that. I can also see where my frustration with KC wanting to R with a husband that was living with the OW boiled over into my initial responses to Wayfarer. That WF was patient enough with me to get past that initial reaction is a testament to WF!
So again, I sincerely apologize to you for giving the impression that it is a hard and fast no, never ever try to R with a cheater. That certainly isn't my stance, I do think it is up to the individual, and to the circumstances (thanks Ginger for showing me that!), and no one is to be looked down upon (not that I ever did) if they decide that a repentant cheater is someone they have decided to R with! As I said, I have several in among my family and friends that have done just that and I think no less of them, and in a couple of the cases, am impressed by how much better their relationships are now!
May, WF, you guys were rocks in your situation. I do think you held fast to what you expected out of your Hs in order to return and give R a shot. And I applaud that. Unfortunately, so many LBSs are willing to R at any cost, even with unrepentant cheaters, and I never advocate for that. You two in particular did it right!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So again, I sincerely apologize to you for giving the impression that it is a hard and fast no, never ever try to R with a cheater. That certainly isn't my stance, I do think it is up to the individual, and to the circumstances (thanks Ginger for showing me that!), and no one is to be looked down upon (not that I ever did) if they decide that a repentant cheater is someone they have decided to R with!
So below is what you wrote on Bent's thread. You didn't give an impression you made a pretty clear statement. You are back tracking now because of the blow back you got. Personally I would respect you more if you held your ground on the subject.
Personally, I don't know how people put up with physical cheating. In my sitch my W had EAs. If any had moved to PAs I could have gladly moved forward with a D and not looked back. I know others feel EAs are worse in some ways, but to me PAs are a dealbreaker.
May to be clear I meant in the beginning when he wanted to get his own place and you refused. To me that had control written all over it. Also I didn't see the remorse in the beginning which turns out is probably just a LBS fantasy. I am a proponent of time and space. I think you and I are more similar then you may think. I think we were both in this to keep our family togethers and didn't want to lose. To keep my family together I would have forgiven a PA if the remorse was there but I wouldn't never tolerate a PA from anyone else if that makes sense. Baby momma rights get certain exceptions in my book. Anyways it work out for you in the long run that you trusted your own instinct.
