Honestly, I didn’t understand why On OB’s thread when he said his bro cheated on his wife and his wife left you out of the blue when no one at all even mentioned the wife, you jumped in and said “let’s not forget, the wife left because a PA is a deal breaker for most” not one person even questioned her as being wrong for leaving and you just felt the need to make that grand statement.
I’ll be honest, you do mention it a lot. It sounds like a moral dilemma within in yourself and something you might be struggling with. You know just because it you exposed her, that likely stopped the inevitable. And your AP left you which never gave you the chance and you can’t say confidently it would never get there.
It’s kind of like when you aren’t a parent yet you have this grand list of things you would never let your kid do . “ my child will never have screen time when we are out to eat” next thing you know you want a peaceful dinner and your kid is chowing down happily on their chicken fingers and fries while watching their favorite show on your tablet abs you and your spouse are having a nice meal and conversation.
You will never know if that’s truly a dealbreaker for you until you are faced with it. It’s OK to change your views or admit “ right now I feel as if a PA would be a dealbreaker, but in all honestly, I don’t know”
While you certainly don't know what you'd do until you have to face it, there's also the element of timing. How you respond to situations changes over time and as you grow. If you're faced with a PA out of the blue, it's tough to gather your bearings and stick to your deal breakers. It also takes time to detach. I think the only reason that I was able to do it was because my sitch was hopeless from the start and remained that way until the end. And, of course, I chose to rely on the advice that both you and LH provided. But different perspectives and opinions are important for the LBS to read. I know I agree with you on some things and LH on others.
-Spiral
Thanks Spiral. Glad to hear that the forum helped you like it did me.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve don't flatter yourself. You are not stalkable to me. We would never hang in the same circles as were are completely different people.
So "My boundary is a PA. Everyone is different maybe it isn't a boundary for you" Vs "I don't how you LBS spouses don't have a PA as a boundary. One is a strong conviction and one is a judgment. When you never knowingly walked in the shoes of KNOWING you W had an affair and being a LBS. Again I think it's 50/50 at best your W hasn't had a PA. Normal marriages are 80/20 and throw in you were a self proclaimed prick and your W is a SAHM who has crossed many lines at best she's at 50/50. Like I tell CW when he brags about being a WS. Know your audience.
"Reconciling is harder then divorce". Another claim you made without ever walking in the shoes of a divorced LBS. I'll find it if I have to. R2C knows I have a uncanning ability to remember situations and what was said. I have no doubt reconciling with someone who has betrayed you is difficult. Everyday not knowing if the next shoe is going to drop. But again you never had the feeling of a lonely house the first weekend your kids are away from you.
"When I signoff on LBS dating it is not to get into a relationship right away" You have no idea what dating after divorce is like. You have no idea (allegedly) what dating while having sex is like. You have no idea how women and men typically don't want you sleeping with multiple people while sleeping with them.
"Alcohol is evil and and you should check yourself into AA" Steve I get that you were an alcoholic and I think it is great that you have been sober for X amount of years. People love alcohol! Some days I sit on the beach listening to good tunes and drink 20 beers and fuching love it. Some people can handle it and some people can't. It's up to them to decide.
Steve 90% of your advice is good stuff and your prospective being someone who saved their marriage is a good one have on this board. Staying in your lane and preaching to other people is your challenge. Especially because there is so much hypocrisy involved.
Lastly yes we hijacked Bent's thread who is now a season vet around here. It would have been different IMO if it was a newbie.
You may not even get this because I think you indicated you took your ball and went home. If not feel free to respond. It's all good Steve.
Steve, you and I have a 3 page argument on my very first thread (starting around pg 7) about how pathetic and scared I was for not leaving my H outright when his EA shifted to a PA. (which I knew was going to happen and it did just as I thought it would, just like his whole A) When I told you I was neither scared nor a door mat and that your line in the sand is not the same as my line in the sand you gave me a lot of push back. I was already in a pretty vulnerable place and what you said really hurt me, but I don't get sad or beat myself up when I'm hurting. I get angry. And thankfully I have had enough therapy in my life at that point that I could put the anger into good use and I really sat with what you were saying. At the same time I was getting hit IRL with an IC who was pushing me to leave or kick him out and a person in my life who was dropping not so subtle hints who eventually ramped up to telling me outright I had no self esteem and completely lacked any kind of self respect for standing for my MR. Honestly the whole thing for me was helpful. It helped me to really find my way to why I was really standing, and learn what I could live with, with other people judging my decisions.
That's the thing about A's when the world knows. If you reconcile your spouse stops looking like the loser and then you do. Unless they are a highly empathetic and knowledgeable person who understands how nuanced and how much work both of you need to put into the MR to get to that point, the person who stays looks like and idiot. That is the one and only thing about recon that is harder than D.
LH, as far as Steve saying recon is harder. I really don't think that ever happened, but he is very, very often the reality check for people explaining that recon comes with it's own set of problems. Which it does. I've done both. I'm in the process of both. I don't know how I should phrase it. We're still piecing this MR back together. But in any case they both effing sukkk. They both hurt. They both involve an enormous mental and emotional load. The only thing that I can really say recon has the advantage over the D is the money. My god D is expensive. IC, and MC and all that comes with recon isn't cheap either, but that's an investment into yourselves and your future, but D, it's like just handing paycheck after paycheck directly to your L, your ex, sometimes your ex's L and your only payout is that once it's done it's done.
As far as this spat, personally both of you have had your serious jerk moments with me. Both of you have been incredibly kind to me. Both of you have challenged my thinking. And I think I've given both of you food for thought. Because of that I think both of your voices are super important here. Especially for LBHs and I think the juxtaposition of your two opinions is usually something really good for a person who is trying to find their footing in this mess. I do think the delivery could be better from both of you sometimes. And I do think that both of you let your personal feelings and convictions color what you say to people in a way that can be counter productive sometimes. Unique voices are important here but if you see something creating a visceral reaction in you, you need to realize you're a little too close to give healthy help and check out. Much like when I see an LBH who is a no fault LBH. I stay away. Because I'll say some mean things that don't help anybody.
I personally think Steve has come a long way since I've been here. He's softened a lot. He's gotten much better at gauging how what he says may affect a person's feelings before just saying, but yes still a little holy roller for my taste. But that's Steve.
I also think LH has come a long way with how he views WAS/WS. It's been a journey, and as black and white as you see things LH you've evolved, become more empathetic, and a little better at the 30,000 ft view. I think that's a feat.
I'm also on the don't just stop interacting because you get under each other's skin. We've had some really good convos because of this. Not just you two, but LH and I, and others.
Every body here has a thing. We just do. But I think there'd probably be a little less infighting if there was a little more introspection before hitting that post button.
Good post Wayfarer. I think we both come from the same tribe I am just a lot older. I probably should let more things slide like water of a ducks back lol. I don't doubt recon is harder then D. You have been through both so it has weight to me. One of my BFs reconned 17 years ago and still struggles with it today. I still despise WS but I get it lol. Steve will miss me and unblock me soon. I think.
While all this was happening to me, i would have taken the WW back, regardless of EA or PA..
The whole "give me the magic bullet... I want to save my famly" was at the forefront of my mind.
3 years on.. I'd tolerate neither. I'm a different person and i don't have the fear of losing something now. I cringe when i think of what i would have tolerated / settled for.
I also believe, if they are capable of EA, they are capable of PA. Factors like timings , opertunity etc may come into it - but i think its just a matter of time and opertunity before most people take that next step.
"affairs start in the head, not in the bed"....
After my WW first EA, i believed all her BS about not doing it again - leopards dont change their spots and it was just a matter of time and opertunity.
If somebody is prepared to have an EA, their head isnt in the relationship and they are prepared to break the trust between them and the LBS.. So why would any LBS want to live like this..
I'd prefer to live my life with a new partner who have never betrayed my trust, as oposed to somebody who has a history of breaking it..
just my 2 cents worth.
Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..
Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
MrB, certainly a valid view. As someone that has been through two EAs by my W I can completely understand. However, I, too, have been guilty as previously admitted. And I take a lot of responsibility, definitely more than 50% blame, for her EAs. I was a terrible husband, and due to that she was susceptible to the attention of someone that showed concern for her.
For me, I was a guy with a certain level of NGS that felt entitled to love and affection from a member of the opposite sex.
This is where IC and MC worked wonders for me/us. Helping us see the causes and effects. I used to have more of a once a cheater always a cheater viewpoint. And for some I think that is true. But I do think As of all flavors are sometimes the result of other problems in the relationship, and that those involved in those can change.
FTR, I truly believe we all get to decide what are deal breakers for us as individuals. You draw yours even further than I do, but it is also valid for others to be less strigent. I've never intended to tell a LBS that's been physically cheated on they shouldn't want to try to save their marriage. That's up to them. I have taken that stance when a WAS was a serial cheater. But certainly V19 and Ginger opened my eyes and I'll be much more judicious about keeping my own belief related to PAs from biasing my advice to LBSs.
Last edited by SteveLW; 02/10/2205:05 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
No matter how often you troll by bringing it up--or hope for my karmic doom--I'm unashamed I left an XW who abused my son. For me, some things trump vows. You do you.
No matter how often you troll by bringing it up--or hope for my karmic doom--I'm unashamed I left an XW who abused my son. For me, some things trump vows. You do you.
I don't hope upon your karmic doom I simply point out that when you say "I can't find someone who sticks with me through thick and thin". That's the definition of karma!
