Steve, The past is important. It is often an indicator of what is to come.
Your choices are your own but I think this conversation between you and LH is good. You both often say the same thing towards newcomers just from different lenses. I encourage you to not ignore each others posts because in all honesty - it ain't about either of you. It's about helping these folks! We never know which post, which perspective, or which debate could be the one that helps heartbroken people find answers to their questions, appropriate anger to make the hard decision, the inkling of self worth to continue fighting. If us vets can't challenge/squabbling with each other and take the heat in the hot chair - how can we expect these newbies to do it when we blast them with 2x4s?
Also - I don't disagree with LH that you do bring up the point that a PA is a deal breaker for you often. I am not trying to say that you intentionally shame anyone but I am curious to know why you bring it up. Knowing that 98% of the people on this board was cheated on and 100% of them came here willing to adjust that boundary to save their family - how does adding that piece of info serve them in their current journey? Could you see how it might provoke shame in them?
These are honest questions.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Traveler, I believe in a high power that had a lot to do with. His plan was, for whatever reason, for her and I to not go all the way with the EAs. I do think LH is right that EAs are PAs waiting to happen. But sometimes, eventually, they fade out before getting to that point. The struggle for me is that I interrupted both of hers. Mine fizzled out naturally before the PA stage. Would hers have? Or would they have ended up in a PA? Only that higher power knows!
But yes, I does help me relate. That mine ended without being interrupted is the big differentiator, and why I still sometimes struggle with the "what if" if I hadn't caught her in the EA stage. .
Speaking of hot seat and 2x4s - here's mine for you... lol
Get off your high horse Steve. Your ability to stop your EA on your own doesn't make you better than your wife and any time you get angry or wonder "what if" - you seriously need to give yourself a swift kick in the pants and tell your ego to calm down.
If you wanted to see if she would have "chose you on her own" - you should have STFU and let her continue on her journey to see what she chose. YOU stepped in and exposed the relationship. If you want to doubt and be mad - be mad are yourself. It was after all...your decision to get involved.
The facts are you both betrayed the marriage with EAs. You both chose to work it out and chose to stay married. Sounds pretty equal to me.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
I didn't end my second EA, the EAP did. I am not on a high horse. I am simply stating that my impulsiveness to confront immediately means I will have to live with never knowing how far she would have went. It doesn't make me better than her. And I apologize Valeska if that was my messaging. IT wasn't my intent, just that I will go to my grave, one way or another, never knowing for sure. I don't deserve better than that. My actions caused all of it, including her EAs. I have been open with the fact that I was a terrible husband. Maybe the worst of any LBS that this board has ever seen.
As far as my mentioning that a PA would be a dealbreaker for me, I don't mention it as often as you characterize it. I try to pick my spots especially for a LBS that is struggling with whether or not they should even bother to try to save their marriage. Sorry if that offends you. Again, there is no intent on my part there.
Thanks for your response, I appreciate your perspective.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thanks V. For the record I would never block him nor am I going to back down from him. Sometimes his hypocrisy is too much for me and I have to challenge him.
I didn't end my second EA, the EAP did. I am not on a high horse. I am simply stating that my impulsiveness to confront immediately means I will have to live with never knowing how far she would have went. It doesn't make me better than her. And I apologize Valeska if that was my messaging. IT wasn't my intent, just that I will go to my grave, one way or another, never knowing for sure. I don't deserve better than that. My actions caused all of it, including her EAs. I have been open with the fact that I was a terrible husband. Maybe the worst of any LBS that this board has ever seen.
So if you aren't on a high horse... Why do you struggle over it? What power does having that answer have?
Originally Posted by SteveLW
As far as my mentioning that a PA would be a dealbreaker for me, I don't mention it as often as you characterize it. I try to pick my spots especially for a LBS that is struggling with whether or not they should even bother to try to save their marriage. Sorry if that offends you. Again, there is no intent on my part there.
Thanks for your response, I appreciate your perspective.
I am not offended... but I think you could make the same point w/o bringing up that fact.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
Your choices are your own but I think this conversation between you and LH is good. You both often say the same thing towards newcomers just from different lenses. I encourage you to not ignore each others posts because in all honesty - it ain't about either of you. It's about helping these folks! We never know which post, which perspective, or which debate could be the one that helps heartbroken people find answers to their questions, appropriate anger to make the hard decision, the inkling of self worth to continue fighting.
I typed up something similar, but you worded it better!
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I didn't end my second EA, the EAP did. I am not on a high horse. I am simply stating that my impulsiveness to confront immediately means I will have to live with never knowing how far she would have went. It doesn't make me better than her. And I apologize Valeska if that was my messaging. IT wasn't my intent, just that I will go to my grave, one way or another, never knowing for sure. I don't deserve better than that. My actions caused all of it, including her EAs. I have been open with the fact that I was a terrible husband. Maybe the worst of any LBS that this board has ever seen.
So if you aren't on a high horse... Why do you struggle over it? What power does having that answer have?
Originally Posted by SteveLW
As far as my mentioning that a PA would be a dealbreaker for me, I don't mention it as often as you characterize it. I try to pick my spots especially for a LBS that is struggling with whether or not they should even bother to try to save their marriage. Sorry if that offends you. Again, there is no intent on my part there.
Thanks for your response, I appreciate your perspective.
I am not offended... but I think you could make the same point w/o bringing up that fact.
Good question. Not something I want to struggle with. And something I'll continue to work through in in IC.
As far as bringing up the boundary, maybe you and my stalker (LH) would know better, but usually I just mention that having a deal breaker of a PA is a legitimate dealbreaker that many people have. Not sure I always mention it is a dealbreaker for me. If I do again there is no hidden agenda. Nothing nefarious.
I also disagree vehemently with disagreeing with one another in a confrontational way in other LBSs threads. I think it is not a help to the LBS. And can turn into a thread hijack. That's why I typically do not engage when someone directly disagrees. I will continue that tact moving forward.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Your choices are your own but I think this conversation between you and LH is good. You both often say the same thing towards newcomers just from different lenses. I encourage you to not ignore each others posts because in all honesty - ! We never know which post, which perspective, or which debate could be the one that helps heartbroken people find answers to their questions, appropriate anger to make the hard decision, the inkling of self worth to continue fighting.
I typed up something similar, but you worded it better!
I especially agreevwith V19 on this: "it ain't about either of you. It's about helping these folks"
That's why I'm here. The only reason. And also why I believe calling out other vets I disagree with is wholly unproductive.
Last edited by SteveLW; 02/10/2212:40 AM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve , if she came to you today and confessed she her EA was actually a PA too, what would you do?
Wow that's a good question. I think I'd have a very difficult time with the fact that the last 4 years were a lie. And that she put my health at risk by lying about it. But what's so good about your question is it reinforces what others have said about not knowing what you'd do until you have to face it.
The logical side of me says that I'd stick to my deal breaker, but finding out 4 years later definitely throws an interesting wrinkle.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
While you certainly don't know what you'd do until you have to face it, there's also the element of timing. How you respond to situations changes over time and as you grow. If you're faced with a PA out of the blue, it's tough to gather your bearings and stick to your deal breakers. It also takes time to detach. I think the only reason that I was able to do it was because my sitch was hopeless from the start and remained that way until the end. And, of course, I chose to rely on the advice that both you and LH provided. But different perspectives and opinions are important for the LBS to read. I know I agree with you on some things and LH on others.
