You need to decide if you're standing for this MR or moving on first. This wishy washy stuff is going to get you no where but continually spinning. Are you in or are you out? I have no investment either way, but the way we advise you differs greatly. And what you should be doing right now differs greatly. You need to decide what you want here, or no one can help you. Not us, not an IC, not your friends or family. You have to know what you want and be ready to commit to that decision because neither road is pleasant or easy.
If you're out go ahead and leave the house. Go move in with your buddy. Get a lawyer. File for D. And make your OLD profiles. If you don't want to be married any more, and you don't want to do this with your W any more than take control of your life, not hers, and move on. Looks like you have a half way decent escape plan reasoned out. You'll still need to iron out details about your kids being with you in your buddy's house and probably some other custody details. You'll have to start thinking about dividing up the belongings and finances. And of course you'll need to start packing. But once you handle those basics you can be on your way.
If you're still in I gotta ask why are you making all these plans to leave? Your job as an LBS if you're choosing to stand is to be the husband and father you've always been. Minus the sweet dating kind of husband-y things. You go on with your life as normal. You're W lives in her indecision and chaos as your roommate and you live your life in your home, sleeping in your bed, being the rock your children need, working on you and waiting it out. If you give this an appropriate timeline she'll either p!ss or get off the pot. But the point of standing for your MR isn't so you can "get affection" else where. It's because you believe in your marriage even if your W doesn't. It's so you can say you were willing to do what ever it took to save this. Including relinquishing control and waiting patiently to see what happens. IHS isn't easy, but it's doable. It's beyond doable. There's people here who were/are in IHS for years. I wouldn't recommend taking it that far, but it only becomes toxic if you contribute to the toxicity. If you relinquish control and focus on you and the kids, it's simply a roommate situation. Maybe it's a gateway to 2 households, maybe it's a gateway to MR 2.0. But it's a reset everyone in the house needs where there are established boundaries and the ground work for the next step whatever it may be gets laid.
If you think a physical separation is best while you stand for your MR that's fine too. A lot of people go that route as well. But that's not a free for all if you are planning on standing. This isn't a place of tit for tat. You will have to take the high road and be the better person. You will have to maintain moral superiority. Not so you can hold it over W's head but if you ever want there to be a chance at you saving this MR you don't get to sleep with a bunch of women and think that's calling it even. The playing field evens out in recon. Not before.
This is a lot to think about. And I, myself, did the IHS while I prepared for D just in case. I separated our finances, and got a L. I had separation papers drawn up. I worked out what my new budget would look like. I made plans for my new life with or without my H. I never gave up on him even though I was close, often. I really never gave up on our MR. But I'm prudent. I knew the risks, and planned for every possible outcome. That's how I gained control back.
Pick a path. Pick a path with a secondary route. Pick a path with a time line. Pick a path with conditional options to pick a different one. Do what ever feels right, but you have to pick a path. Sooner rather than later.
Ask her what her intentions are with the counseling.
I'm all for MC, (is this also a bad thing?) however i'm not sure i want to participate in divorce counselling. Given her blatant lack of honesty, and if all she'll give is divorce planning, I don't see the point in pretending we're friends and that we want to get along. I think i'd prefer we just make plans to separate. Is it ok to tell her that was not what i agreed to, and refuse? Or is that still showing too much attachment?
Originally Posted by LH19
Ah getting some affection in the bachelors pad. You are just as bad as her. Apparently this marriage doesn't mean anything to either of you. Probably best to come to a amicable split and move on.
In my earlier posts I was clear on working on this relationship, but I was convinced to GAL. I honestly figured part of GAL was getting out there, not just hobbies, but completely diving back into your life before the relationship.
Ask her what her intentions are with the counseling.
I'm all for MC, (is this also a bad thing?) however i'm not sure i want to participate in divorce counselling. Given her blatant lack of honesty, and if all she'll give is divorce planning, I don't see the point in pretending we're friends and that we want to get along. I think i'd prefer we just make plans to separate. Is it ok to tell her that was not what i agreed to, and refuse? Or is that still showing too much attachment?
Oh boy. Costanza: What are your goals from this counseling? To work on the marriage or facilitate divorce? Wife: To facilitate a divorce. Costanza: No thanks I am not interested. Wife: To work on the marriage Constanza: Ok. Let me think about it.
Originally Posted by costanza
In my earlier posts I was clear on working on this relationship, but I was convinced to GAL. I honestly figured part of GAL was getting out there, not just hobbies, but completely diving back into your life before the relationship.
Come on man. Read Wayfarer's post a couple times. You don't have an option that doesn't suck. You have to pick the least sucky option of all the sucky options you have and learn to accept it.
I just got a fwd email from W concerning the divorce counselling or MC. We'll have an appointment in the next 24-48 hours. I'm pretty sure its divorce counselling. Not sure how to approach this. Since she's already out there dating, and not being honest about it. Is there even a point to attending this together? I just don't see the point.
I'm leaning towards writing exactly that. But at the same time I understand I need to stop arguing, validate, and actively listen. What's the next step in this case?
"I've decided that couples counseling at this point would be a waste of time. I'm committed to individual counseling for myself."
Simple. Short. To the point.
How about if its divorce counselling? Same reply?
Pretty much.
Maybe more "I refuse to participate in something I am morally opposed to. I will be committing to IC, however."
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I'm all for MC, (is this also a bad thing?) however i'm not sure i want to participate in divorce counselling. Given her blatant lack of honesty, and if all she'll give is divorce planning, I don't see the point in pretending we're friends and that we want to get along. I think i'd prefer we just make plans to separate. Is it ok to tell her that was not what i agreed to, and refuse? Or is that still showing too much attachment?
You are all for MC because you haven't dropped expectations. MC with a WAS is = to divorce counseling. That's what they will use it for.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Divorce counseling is very helpful for people who would like to be somewhat amicable for their kids and who both are on board with divorce. If you both want that I'd follow through but that doesn't seem to be the case here. You need to find out exactly what this appointment is for. MC, divorce counseling or discernment counseling. If it's discernment counseling I strongly, strongly suggest you get on board. The other 2 not so much. You're not all in on a divorce there's no point to divorce counseling for you. She's not all in on staying married there's no point in MC for her.
As to the GAL, #1 where did you get the impression GAL meant dating? #2 Wtf was your life before marriage? Look I'm not a prude and my H's body count is frighteningly high, so please don't take that as judgement, but when they say taking your life back they don't mean taking it back to your early 20s. More like who you were you when you were seriously dating but not living together yet. Getting a life doesn't mean new love life or voracious s3x life. It means a life that isn't wrapped up in your spouse's coming and going. One that isn't wrapped up in your MR. You know you can like go out and do things and not be trying to get laid. Like people go bowling because it's fun. Or dance because it's fun. Or catch up with old friends over a drink because it's fun.
In my earlier posts I was clear on working on this relationship, but I was convinced to GAL. I honestly figured part of GAL was getting out there, not just hobbies, but completely diving back into your life before the relationship.
You really need to learn what GAL means. It is not dating. It is not acting single. It is going out and reconnecting with old and new MALE friends. All of the advice that is worth anything on GAL insists you stay away from the single's scene. It is about having a life outside of being the husband and father that you still are. Hanging out with the guys. Rekindling old interests and hobbies. Staying busy.
No where in the advice did GAL mean go out and start dating.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You need to decide if you're standing for this MR or moving on first. This wishy washy stuff is going to get you no where but continually spinning. Are you in or are you out? I have no investment either way, but the way we advise you differs greatly. And what you should be doing right now differs greatly. You need to decide what you want here, or no one can help you. Not us, not an IC, not your friends or family. You have to know what you want and be ready to commit to that decision because neither road is pleasant or easy.
If you're out go ahead and leave the house. Go move in with your buddy. Get a lawyer. File for D. And make your OLD profiles. If you don't want to be married any more, and you don't want to do this with your W any more than take control of your life, not hers, and move on. Looks like you have a half way decent escape plan reasoned out. You'll still need to iron out details about your kids being with you in your buddy's house and probably some other custody details. You'll have to start thinking about dividing up the belongings and finances. And of course you'll need to start packing. But once you handle those basics you can be on your way.
If you're still in I gotta ask why are you making all these plans to leave? Your job as an LBS if you're choosing to stand is to be the husband and father you've always been. Minus the sweet dating kind of husband-y things. You go on with your life as normal. You're W lives in her indecision and chaos as your roommate and you live your life in your home, sleeping in your bed, being the rock your children need, working on you and waiting it out. If you give this an appropriate timeline she'll either p!ss or get off the pot. But the point of standing for your MR isn't so you can "get affection" else where. It's because you believe in your marriage even if your W doesn't. It's so you can say you were willing to do what ever it took to save this. Including relinquishing control and waiting patiently to see what happens. IHS isn't easy, but it's doable. It's beyond doable. There's people here who were/are in IHS for years. I wouldn't recommend taking it that far, but it only becomes toxic if you contribute to the toxicity. If you relinquish control and focus on you and the kids, it's simply a roommate situation. Maybe it's a gateway to 2 households, maybe it's a gateway to MR 2.0. But it's a reset everyone in the house needs where there are established boundaries and the ground work for the next step whatever it may be gets laid.
If you think a physical separation is best while you stand for your MR that's fine too. A lot of people go that route as well. But that's not a free for all if you are planning on standing. This isn't a place of tit for tat. You will have to take the high road and be the better person. You will have to maintain moral superiority. Not so you can hold it over W's head but if you ever want there to be a chance at you saving this MR you don't get to sleep with a bunch of women and think that's calling it even. The playing field evens out in recon. Not before.
This is a lot to think about. And I, myself, did the IHS while I prepared for D just in case. I separated our finances, and got a L. I had separation papers drawn up. I worked out what my new budget would look like. I made plans for my new life with or without my H. I never gave up on him even though I was close, often. I really never gave up on our MR. But I'm prudent. I knew the risks, and planned for every possible outcome. That's how I gained control back.
Pick a path. Pick a path with a secondary route. Pick a path with a time line. Pick a path with conditional options to pick a different one. Do what ever feels right, but you have to pick a path. Sooner rather than later.
This post is amazing, thank you so much Wayfarer.
To answer your first paragraph, I want my relationship, I want to work at it. I'm not looking for the easy way out, I'm willing to sacrifice.
Moving in with my buddy part-time, is the option if we choose to nest. If nesting doesn't work, I'd want to keep the house, pretty sure she wouldn't want it. However, now I'm confused, most people are saying as the LBS I need her to do the work and file papers, etc....
The "plans to leave" are if we proceed with nesting. I wasn't aware of all the negative aspects. So now I need to reconsider that plan. This paragraph contains the answer I was looking for, which was, how do I react to living with my x-wife if she's out partying and dating while we're under the same roof. This part definitely seems like the hardest.
I didn't realize this approach was an option longterm: "It's because you believe in your marriage even if your W doesn't. It's so you can say you were willing to do what ever it took to save this. Including relinquishing control and waiting patiently to see what happens. IHS isn't easy, but it's doable." It seemed to me that would show some weakness and the opposite of moving forward & GAL. I need to read up more on boundaries.
As for taking the high road, its wild how the automatic reaction is opposite to what seems to actually work. Just like you've guys have said all along. When I learned about W's EA that ended (temporarily?) a month ago, and considering how well the past 7-10 days have gone between us, and that there was no news on the counselling front, I was actually considering confronting her with "look, this isn't working, I've been approached by an old friend/x-GF about seeing each other and I'm gonna go ahead with it, I just wanted to be honest and up front." This is true, that we've been in contact, but nothing more than messaging and I have not accepted or made a move. I actually backed off. My thinking was that it would make my W p!$$ or get off the pot. But after reading you guys, i guess not? I can see how this could be playing games.
I'm gonna have to study your last two paragraphs, I'll definitely need some guidance. Any suggested reading concerning how to go about this.
Ahhh now messaging the old girl friend. Wayfarer great job sniffing this guy out.
Take the focus off your W. Concentrate on you and the kids. GAL doing anything that doesn't involve your ex girlfriend and affection. Just breathe for awhile. Right now the ball is in your Ws court and it looks like she is making moves to dissolve the marriage. Decide what you want and why you want it and we can help you move forward.
The very best path is the minute your partner says they want out you smile, say "good luck with that", hand them a box of their stuff, and go live a kick-@ss life of your own.
In that case, they have to spend zero time focused on getting away with you and can right away shift into wondering where you've gone. That's what you want.
In terms of her feeling differently -- when you first met she didn't instantly want to marry you, then you got married and she didn't want to leave you, then at some point she did want to leave you. She was stubborn the whole time, made three decisions there and changed her feelings about the first two. That should prove to you that her feelings do change, and despite how she feels now, or what she says now, she may feel and do completely different things in the future. You have hard evidence of that.
The ride is just beginning. She won't be done with you for a long time, nor will you be done with her. Since you have young kids together you will be intermeshed for 18+ years.
