Clearly SA's situation is complicated by the laws of the country he is operating under. I think the answer is to balance him trying to control her vs. what he can legally do or not do. Clearly, if she decides she wants to leave the country, not allowing her access funds to do so breaks that balance. He can legally do it, but should he be doing it from a not trying to control her standpoint.
Finally, women in these kinds of societies find ways to escape them all the time. The longer he tries to use the law he is under to control her, the more likely it is she will find a way to try to escape to a more woman-friendly society.
See the post above, I don't believe I am controlling her in any way re: the laws of the country. Adultery is punishable by one year in jail and the deportation for non-Muslims. This is what I would be persuing if I was really trying to use the law to my own ends.
Originally Posted by BL42
Great suggestion. Go around and meet people, make friends, and have fun without her. Do not be clingy. Do not be in "spy" mode, looking over your shoulder at her and listening into her conversations.
This is totally my plan. I like the "spy" mode bit, Im not even gonna look in her direction all afternoon
One final post tonightt, I would just like to say to you all "Thankyou all very much for the advice and support". These boards are really helping me hold it all together at the moment.
In the evening I have sometimes been hovering around, hoping she may come and talk to me and let me feed on some scraps of attention.
However, tonight I was hoping she would go to bed early (which she has) so I can get on these boards to read all the good advice and bounce ideas off you all!!!!!!
Again, thankyou for helping me, when I feel like I am exploding into a million pieces!
today we went on a preplanned canoeing trip. I just let her do her thing, when she was on the phone, I walked off and spent time with the kids.
That's awesome! Making memories with the kids! Keep it up.
Originally Posted by scaredA
Im just curious if it is part of a softening. She even said "Thankyou" when we got home from the canoeing trip, though she didnt thank me personally, she used "we thankyou", as if referring to her and the kids. I just said "Yes it was fun" and walked off.
I think what people are trying to tell you - and others can feel free to chime in if they disagree with me - is the "signs" you're pointing out are not actually signs. They're trivial things which have no bearing on the sitch. One bbq invite, buying a pair of slippers online, a "thank you" for taking the kids out....etc. Not trying to get you done, but the fact you're pointing these things out as "softening" comes across that you think they might be significant and are hopeful it makes things are good. We're just saying from experience not to get too hopeful based on these...continue to manage your expectations.
Originally Posted by scaredA
We are bot British citizens (may wife has given up her Russian citizenship years ago). We are both resident of a Gulf Arab country that has strict sponsorship and residence laws. I am sponsored by my company and I sponsor my family. My company can cancel my sponsorship at any time and I could cancel my family's sponsorship. Without sponsorship you need to leave the country. If my wife is divorced she automatically looses her sponsorship as you can only be sponsored by a company or spouse.
My wife works her, so she has her own money, albeit a salary a lot less than mine. I provide her with additional cash every month and I cover all bill.
None of our assets are in this country. We have a full paid off house back in the UK (in both our names) and we have a stockbroking savings account in Luxembourg (under European law and in both our names)
My understanding of divorce here is that as neither of us is Muslim, the divorce proceedings can occur under the law of the home country (UK). However once the divorce has been finalised, my wife would have to leave the country unless she got another sponsor (not likely). So I believe that I cannot stop her getting a divorce if she wants. Although she says otherwise (you need husbands permission).
Having said that, I have no authority over her leaving the country (I cannot leave the country without an exit permit from my company). So she could empty the stockbroking account in Luxembourg (she has full access). Get on a plane to the UK and proceed with a divorce there, under European law, where she would get at least 50% of the property we own and probably full custody of the children.
Why does she not do this if she has demanded a divorce? Im am not really sure, but I suspect that she wants me to initiate the divorce so that she can tell everyone that I am the bad guy. Not that she has been the one sleeping around.
This is exactly what I was getting at. Know your rights. I suspected, and it sounds like, getting a D in the UK is going to work against you in terms of assets, custody, child support...etc. I don't know UK divorce law, but my guess is her affair has no bearing on the divorce (it doesn't in much of the US, including my state) Are you able to file and get divorced in the Arab Gulf country? If you are, I'm assuming the affair might play a much bigger benefit to your case there than "back home".
IF you can do something strategic or tactical to strengthen your case, you should absolutely consider that into your decision on how to proceed. Are you able to arrange things in your Luxembourg savings account to your benefit? Transfer it into the Arab Gulf state? ...etc, etc. Think about these things and consider your game plan. I know you don't want to get divorced, and you want to work this out, but if it comes to that (and that's up to her, not you at this point) you should put yourself in the best situation to get the best deal. Cynical? Maybe. But also smart. Better to be divorced against your will with my money and more time with the kids, than get divorce against your will with half the money and little to no custody. She's admitted affairs and admitted she's considering divorce. She's tipping her hand. Use it to prepare yourself.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
One final post tonightt, I would just like to say to you all "Thankyou all very much for the advice and support". These boards are really helping me hold it all together at the moment.
In the evening I have sometimes been hovering around, hoping she may come and talk to me and let me feed on some scraps of attention.
However, tonight I was hoping she would go to bed early (which she has) so I can get on these boards to read all the good advice and bounce ideas off you all!!!!!!
Again, thankyou for helping me, when I feel like I am exploding into a million pieces!
I count participation at this forum part of GAL!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Why does she not do this if she has demanded a divorce? Im am not really sure, but I suspect that she wants me to initiate the divorce so that she can tell everyone that I am the bad guy. Not that she has been the one sleeping around.
When it comes to the actual divorce, most WASs, and WSs in particular, are notoriously lazy. This is why the guidance is not to "Help" them with the D. Doesn't mean you fight it or actively work against it in the case they do follow through, but make them do all the legwork.
"I need X document. Can you find it for me?" "Sorry, I am busy, but that document should be in the file cabinet, feel free to look for it."
Notice, you didn't really hinder her getting the document, you just didn't do the dirty work for her.
Most of the time the WS will just go do what they want, and at some point later the LBS finally has had enough and goes and files for D themselves. That is always within your rights and no one would blame you if you did.
In fact, have you given any thought to wayfarer's suggestion of a drop-dead date? I date that you can move forward, go file for yourself, and get on with life? You shouldn't wait for her forever. My suggestion is always one year past BD. I even had it in my signature for a while: "I will give her until 12/23/2018 to fully commit back to the marriage or I will go and file for D."
Something to consider. Gives you light at the end of the tunnel to look forward.
NOTE, like boundaries this is NOT something you communicate to her. Just set a date you can live with, then stick to it.
As far as the logistics of a potential D, don't fret that. Others in worse situations than yourself have D'd and come out the other side better and stronger for it.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
TKnow your rights. I suspected, and it sounds like, getting a D in the UK is going to work against you in terms of assets, custody, child support...etc. IF you can do something strategic or tactical to strengthen your case, you should absolutely consider that into your decision on how to proceed. Are you able to arrange things in your Luxembourg savings account to your benefit? Transfer it into the Arab Gulf state? ...etc, etc. Think about these things and consider your game plan. I know you don't want to get divorced, and you want to work this out, but if it comes to that (and that's up to her, not you at this point) you should put yourself in the best situation to get the best deal. Cynical? Maybe. But also smart. Better to be divorced against your will with my money and more time with the kids, than get divorce against your will with half the money and little to no custody.
To the OP, most of us live in the US or UK where the norm is 40-60% of assets and 50/50 custody. She's stated she doesn't believe she could even get a divorce without your permission. You repeated that, said she told you about the affair hoping you'd grant a divorce, but say there are other ways you think she could get a divorce, but you don't sound certain and she may not know of these.
I don't think you want her to stay with you because she feels trapped. In DB terms, set her free. The next time she brings up D, I would let her know you don't want one, but if she did you would grant permission and are committed to a fair outcome where you both see the kids and are provided for. (I would NOT spend any time working out what that looks like.)
Know your rights so you aren't fleeced. See a lawyer. Ensure she has access to one, too so she's not fleeced. The goal isn't the best possible outcome for you. In most countries, I do not emphasize this, because the courts ensure balance. If you want marriage to be a choice she makes because she wants to be with you, she has to be free to leave. In DB terms, don't do any legwork for her to divorce you, but also don't stand in her way (e.g., by withholding permission).
To the OP, most of us live in the US or UK where the norm is 40-60% of assets and 50/50 custody. She's stated she doesn't believe she could even get a divorce without your permission. You repeated that, said she told you about the affair hoping you'd grant a divorce, but say there are other ways you think she could get a divorce, but you don't sound certain and she may not know of these.
I don't think you want her to stay with you because she feels trapped. In DB terms, set her free. The next time she brings up D, I would let her know you don't want one, but if she did you would grant permission and are committed to a fair outcome where you both see the kids and are provided for. (I would NOT spend any time working out what that looks like.)
Know your rights so you aren't fleeced. See a lawyer. Ensure she has access to one, too so she's not fleeced. The goal isn't the best possible outcome for you. In most countries, I do not emphasize this, because the courts ensure balance. If you want marriage to be a choice she makes because she wants to be with you, she has to be free to leave. In DB terms, don't do any legwork for her to divorce you, but also don't stand in her way (e.g., by withholding permission).
I have never said she cannot have permission, I don't believe this is even possible. She is saying that I have to come to the lawyer with her and tell him I want a divorce as well. I have said I will not do this, but she is free to proceed any way she likes. I think this is inline with what you are saying about not doing any legwork?
She also is fully aware that she can go to the UK for a divorce, she has mentioned that she could do this many times.
Ok pretty sh$t day today. I had an app that showed me when she and OM are online on Whatsapp. They were both online within a few minutes of each other at 3AM. Coincidence, I think not. I am sure they are still talking.
I challenged her twice today to see if she was talking to him. I didn't say she should stop, but I said you are free to do what you want, just don't treat me like an idiot. Big mistake she got angry and said "I told you I wasn't", "Your paranoia is terrible"
Anyway summary of that is, no more spying or prying. It does nothing but make me feel bad and causes me to attempt R conversations. I've deleted the app, she will do what she wants if I am aware of it or not.
As wayfarer said, I need to stop letting her drive the bus I am on.
Tidied up the house, did the kids laundry, helped my youngest with his homework and went out with a few friends for a drink.
Getting up tomorrow for the gym. Really need to take the focus away from her, and put it on the kids and myself. Prying and snooping around is really dangerous and just messes with my head.
When it comes to the actual divorce, most WASs, and WSs in particular, are notoriously lazy. This is why the guidance is not to "Help" them with the D. Doesn't mean you fight it or actively work against it in the case they do follow through, but make them do all the legwork.
"I need X document. Can you find it for me?" "Sorry, I am busy, but that document should be in the file cabinet, feel free to look for it."
Notice, you didn't really hinder her getting the document, you just didn't do the dirty work for her.
Most of the time the WS will just go do what they want, and at some point later the LBS finally has had enough and goes and files for D themselves. That is always within your rights and no one would blame you if you did.
In fact, have you given any thought to wayfarer's suggestion of a drop-dead date? I date that you can move forward, go file for yourself, and get on with life? You shouldn't wait for her forever. My suggestion is always one year past BD. I even had it in my signature for a while: "I will give her until 12/23/2018 to fully commit back to the marriage or I will go and file for D."
Something to consider. Gives you light at the end of the tunnel to look forward.
NOTE, like boundaries this is NOT something you communicate to her. Just set a date you can live with, then stick to it.
As far as the logistics of a potential D, don't fret that. Others in worse situations than yourself have D'd and come out the other side better and stronger for it.
I'm still developing some boundaries, but I've thought of a drop-dead date. It will be 14th August 2022, one year after she first mentioned the affair.
Ok pretty sh$t day today. I had an app that showed me when she and OM are online on Whatsapp. They were both online within a few minutes of each other at 3AM. Coincidence, I think not. I am sure they are still talking.
I challenged her twice today to see if she was talking to him. I didn't say she should stop, but I said you are free to do what you want, just don't treat me like an idiot. Big mistake she got angry and said "I told you I wasn't", "Your paranoia is terrible"
Anyway summary of that is, no more spying or prying. It does nothing but make me feel bad and causes me to attempt R conversations. I've deleted the app, she will do what she wants if I am aware of it or not.
As wayfarer said, I need to stop letting her drive the bus I am on.
Tidied up the house, did the kids laundry, helped my youngest with his homework and went out with a few friends for a drink.
Getting up tomorrow for the gym. Really need to take the focus away from her, and put it on the kids and myself. Prying and snooping around is really dangerous and just messes with my head.
Ok so you know she’s having an affair so no need to snoop anymore.
So when you confronted and said “you’re free to do what you want just don’t treat me like an idiot” What exactly does that mean?
Good job getting out for drinks. Be careful about becoming “merry maid”. Do your share but no more.
