Andrew, my final post on this subject and maybe the board itself:
How long were you separated before your divorce was final? How long did you wait before dating? (I seem to recall you saying you wanted to wait several months or even a year before starting something new)
Why do you forget that other people may need the same distance from their divorce being finalized before getting involved with them? I've never had the impression that you've thought of C as a mere friend. Always a romantic potential.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
it hit me as i was doing errands. Andrew and CW are both left brain dominant people. love is not a left brain emotion.
This is an interesting starting point here.
Some people have claimed that I have some form of Asperger's as well. Left brained people - at least in my own opinion / experience - tend to like structures and systems and for the world to make sense. It shapes the way we deal with the world. We tend to believe what we can see and feel and what we're told.
I like to think that I can feel love but it's like experiencing the colour Yellow. Does everyone experience those inputs in the same way? Doesn't make it more real or less real - certainly different. Looking back on my marriage, I absolutely loved my wife and she knew it. We were "that cute couple" even just before the end. Wrapped up in that were concepts of Duty that anyone who has played the home game knows is one of the cornerstones about how I view the world.
Like I do sometimes and prompted by the current conversations here, I read back on my thread starting at exactly a year ago and skimming forward. My heavens. What a cluster fxxx I was going through. It actually triggered some stress / nearly PTSD reaction in me. So very much that was going on that was both said and a lot more that was unsaid. I went from proclaiming that I was so very happy to trying to escape in about a month. To paraphrase Shakespeare "The lady protests too much, methinks" - which if you read the play has a number of meanings. Act 3 Scene 2 if you are wanting to skip ahead. Mind you, Hamlet was a pretty messed up character too what with the thing with his sister and such.
Anyhoodles - The re-reading certainly reinforced that dating crazy and especially manipulative people is a truly bad idea. It also reinforces the need to believe and trust less until people prove themselves to me - in all areas of my life. I'm still at a loss to know how to tell - actions and words need to be in sync I know is a big part of that.
A lot of people have gotten wrapped up in the fact that the two women I dated were just separated and not fully divorced. I think regardless of marital status, crazy and manipulative people are to be found.
Going to do some self-care and soak in the tub with a good book for as long as I feel the need. Sunday Supper is in the crock-pot and will be ready whenever I am. Shame I don't have the ingredients for "Jynnan tonnyx" (waves to the small number of Hitchhiker's fans here).
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
A lot of people have gotten wrapped up in the fact that the two women I dated were just separated and not fully divorced. I think regardless of marital status, crazy and manipulative people are to be found.
True enough, but you've entirely missed my point: why are YOU open to dating separated people, given that you've been separated for a length of time, and know what that feels like. You've also been divorced and know that often the finalization brings up even more trauma post D, and that time alone is often ... Why would you be willing to partner with someone who has their own issues to work through? It seems a recipe for disaster.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
I was naive in many ways when I got married the first time at 35. I had certainly dated and had relationships prior to meeting my XH (who was fully divorced for several years before we even met, so separation issues weren't a problem for us). I had a very strict view on relationships and divorce and all sorts of other things, but having been single through my 20s and into my 30s one "attitude" (for lack of a better word) that I had developed was that I just didn't date separated guys. I hadn't really thought about it until I really started actively dating in my late 20s when it was possible to find more divorced guys, but in general the ones that were separated, a lot of times, were not really looking to get serious. I did ultimately have a serious relationship with a guy who was separated and it ended eventually because he didn't want to be "tied down". Later, after we were apart for awhile, I learned he'd gone back to his X. Several years later he reached out to me to try again. No thanks...hard pass. That whole thing kind of shaped for me that, moving forward, I was going to pass on separated folks and strictly stay with completely divorced or never married guys (who have their own set of "challenges" when they are in their 30s, 40s, 50s). When my XH and I got married, he was the same way because he'd seen his own first XW date a bunch of dudes before their divorce was final and he was upset, not because he wanted her back, but because he thought it was confusing for their girls. I get it. He was staunchly opposed to separated people dating. Flash forward to our own divorce and lo and behold, he was dating his now wife long before the ink was dry on our divorce papers. Oh how we change the direction of our boat rowing when it suits our purpose. Of course, he was trying to save face and when I called him on it, he said it was fine for HIM to date when he was just separated because he knew there wouldn't be any reconciliation. He was right about that....that was yet another HARD pass for me. I wouldn't have taken him back then (or now) if he had crawled back on his hands and knees with millions of dollars strapped to his body and offered me a private island oasis to live out our days in peaceful, beachy solitude. But anyway, I say all that to say that I agree with bttrfly, as usual. There is just SO much surrounding separation and divorce and it takes awhile to clear all those cobwebs, so dating in the midst of that just doesn't make a lot of sense.
I know everyone is different and has different needs, wants, desires, but for me, after my XH left (Sept. 29 was BD and our D was final Dec. 17), that whole part of me that craved romantic attention in any form or fashion just shut down. It took a little over a year for me to even want to think about any man in a romantic light and then it was like flipping a switch and all of a sudden, I was like, hmmm...a date would be nice. And, that is when I knew I was "over it" and ready to move forward. For me, I know my situation is different from a lot because I wasn't with my XH when I was young. We got married when I was 35. We didn't have children together, though I think of his daughters from his first marriage as my own and have a very tight bond with all of them to this day. It was, perhaps, easier for me to put that past behind me and maintain a relationship with the girls, who were all adults when we divorced than for someone who has been with someone since they were young and produced children together.
People are different, but I think bttrfly makes a good point that women who are separated still have some stuff to work through and likely need the space to do that instead of rushing into another relationship.
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
People are different, but I think bttrfly makes a good point that women who are separated still have some stuff to work through and likely need the space to do that instead of rushing into another relationship.
I think men have that same need. the finality of divorce just ... can knock someone sideways for a minute or three. better they do that without a rebound partner who risks getting hurt.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Yes, agree that men need it too. Divorce affects everyone differently but it is certainly a tough thing and getting over it is probably best when not already tied into a new partner.
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
Does the WAS needs as much time post-separation / post-divorce as the LBS, or does the likelihood the WAS was processing what was to come well before the LBS mean they can be healthier and date / marry successfully sooner than the LBS?
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
WAS, walk away spouse. They walked away from their marriage, their families, their responsibilities, their vows. WAS are not emotionally healthy people. These are not folks from an amicably agreed separation/divorce. These are self focused, this is my time, I don’t care who gets hurts, people trying to escape an often irrational and emotional prison of self.
Can they be healthier and date / marry successfully sooner than the LBS? No way. A true WAS will have issues, problems, drives that they need to work through, and then resolve all the damages they caused, and then reconcile where their new life is at, and so on.
That being said, some LBS do get mired on their path and get stuck. Some for a very long time. So yes, it is possible a few WAS find healthy and wholeness before their left behind spouse. Still, generally speaking the WAS has a head start, yet they got a whole lot more ground to cover.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
