My, my, my how things are changing. My older son is leaving for college in the fall; his first year. He’ll be attending a UC school that is not within a close distance to me. Sad as I am that he will not be close, I know this is good for him and his healing. He has had a really tough time with the divorce and the grenade that his dad threw over his shoulder and onto our lives.
Early in the summer, son 17 had it out with his dad. He called him out on a lot of his behaviors and the decisions he has made over the last few years. (For those new to my story, my ex married his affair partner but asked my kids to keep it all secret from me. I did not find out he was dating nor married to her until a month after they were married. Then he divorced her in five months and also kept that a secret from me.) My understanding is my ex has been referring to himself as the family man! This, despite the fact that my kids saw him running around all hours of the night when he lived with us. And they watched him marry and divorce within a six-month period. Not much of a family man there! They are well aware that he had a midlife crisis.
Son 17, called him out as being a hypocrite, told him he is the worst family man ever and also told him he’ll never respect him. It has been very difficult to sit on the sidelines and watch him process the fact that his father is a loser. In fact, it’s a really bizarre story unfolding.
Son 17 has told me that his dad brags about bringing home women who are 25. My son said it’s really bizarre because it’s clear that somehow his dad finds validation and worth through conquering women half his age. My son recognizes that it’s truly abnormal for a 50-year-old man to validate himself in this way. He says he looks at his dad as even less than a friend. He doesn’t look at him as a dad at all. And he says he really wouldn’t be friends with a guy who talks this way about women. (I am so proud that my boy recognizes the talk as gross locker room banter that is beneath him.)
Here’s one particularly comical story. Apparently, before his dad is about to have these 25 year old women over, he takes his guitar out and tries to impress the women by playing for them!
An even more disturbing story surfaced. Apparently, the first time my son introduced his girlfriend to his dad, they were driving somewhere and from the backseat of the car, my son’s girlfriend saw his dad getting nude pics of a woman on his phone. (Not sure if it was from a sleazy site or an actual woman.) She proceeded to text my son who was sitting in the front seat and tell him about the disturbing images she was seeing on his dad’s phone. It was a truly embarrassing and mortifying moment for my son. He was really angry and embarrassed. He really likes this girl and was just was so saddened that this is dad. He’s having a lot of issues with coming to terms that this is his dad. He told me he’ll never bring her around him again. And he won’t be bringing other girlfriends in the future to meet him either. It’s really all quite trashy.
Ever since my son called out his dad, the two of them have been butting heads. It’s quite clear to me that his dad is retaliating for being called out on (some pretty obvious bad stuff). My son is showing me some text conversations between them and meanness emanating from his dad is quite extraordinary. The problems start as garden-variety issues. His dad is upset that my son is not cleaning up after himself. Pretty typical teenage stuff. But from there it gets really ugly. He is very punitive in a way that does not match “the crime”. He tells him every hour he is late cleaning his room, will be a day that he takes his car away from him. I believe a lot of this is just retaliation for being called out on being a dirt bag.
His dad also tells him that he was disrespectful in voicing his criticism. I find this comical as his behavior is so ridiculously bad that it’s not really a subjective criticism, it’s factually wrong as a parent to do the stuff he is doing. Marrying somebody in secret and asking you to keep it quiet from your mom is obviously poor decision making ability. Bragging about sexual conquests and looking at nude pics in front of kids: all obviously bad. Anyway, his dad told him he was not welcome to go there anymore because he has disrespected him by criticizing him. So my son will be living here.
I’m working really hard to try to help him heal. He’s in a lot of pain. He’s in pain from seeing who his dad is, not being able to voice obvious criticisms, and for being thrown out of his house. He’s also very worried about repeating the cycle because my ex’s dad did the exact same kind of stuff.
I’m not sure if my ex is talking about sexual conquests in front of my 15-year-old. My 17-year-old son was not sure. But I have been thinking about the fact that I do feel I need to address this with my other son given that come fall he’ll be alone with his dad. I want him to understand that none of this is normal. Secure men don’t behave this way.
So I’m open to any advice people have on how to handle this. I am also looking for advice for my other son who does not want to see a therapist but is struggling with who his dad is and is worrying about repeating the cycle. He has told me he is scared to get married, scared he’ll divorce and put his kids through this. I think it’s hard to see your dad being a vehicle where the wheels are falling off.
As for me, while I am so sad my kids are seeing all this, I am so thankful to be separated from his bad decisions.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
I'm so sorry you are dealing with such dirtbag behavior.
I don't know what state you are in, but in my state it is actually illegal to share pornographic images with a minor. I would have a discussion with your lawyer. Every state is different.
You mentioned in your last line that you are "so thankful to be separated from his bad decisions".
I'm in the same boat. My XH flirts with anything that moves and my sons are grossed out by it. He is secretive, so he didn't share with anyone about his AP/OW - but they all know now. My sons are older than yours, but my youngest is still going through it and hasn't been able to separate himself emotionally from his dad's stuff.
I listen and validate and remind him that he has agency. He is free to speak to his dad about things that upset him. (We all know it doesn't do any good to change the behavior, but I encourage the boys to communicate and control what they can - themselves). At his age, he is free to have no contact, or contact with boundaries, which he is getting better at. I HIGHLY recommend the book "Boundaries" for everyone. There is also a "Boundaries for Teens". At any rate, your S15 could read about boundaries from reputable sources if he doesn't want to see a therapist.
I just wonder with your sons ages if they even have to have any relationship with their dad right now, while the behaviors are so gross. I encouraged my sons to speak to other adult men about it. Kept me from projecting, and gave them an unbiased male figure to hear them.
Maybe talk to the L and let the L explain to the boys what they have to do, given their ages, so that you aren't held in contempt, but they have choices on what they are exposed to. For instance, if they don't want to see their dad, they should at that age be able to choose, or maybe it can be limited due to his mental instability.
I wish you all the best. You aren't alone (((hugs)))
ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19
8/17-BD IHS: 1/17-2/19 D FILED (ME): 7/19 D FINAL: 10/20 M23 T25 OW CONFIRMED: 01/21
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
ok, this is really rough water. is there any other adult (or youngish adult) male in the family/friend sphere that your boys feel comfortable talking to? even a teacher or guidance counselor?
My son didn't really have any other strong male role models or guys he could talk to. A couple of his teachers really tried, but he was resistant. It was a real issue and led to a lot of trauma my son could have minimized had he been more open to help sooner. best thing would be for your son to see a counselor. Mine was resistant also, but he hit a wall and I took his choice away from him. We started going as family counseling with each having individual sessions as well and it's become something he relies on each week. Don't know if you can do the family counselor route and have it morph for your son(s) as well?
Barring that, I would not have the boys talk to the lawyer yet. Your ex is at best a loose cannon. You have no control over his behavior, but past experience has shown it's best not to poke that bear unless and until you have to, with all your ducks firmly in a row. If you think you need to get some kind of legal intervention, that's a different story, but it's unclear to me that s15 would be ok with that.
I think your best course of action is to keep doing what you're doing for S17 - listen, validate, ask questions, be his touchstone, and try to find another adult male that he can relate to. I've been very honest with my son about his chances of following in his dad's footsteps if he doesn't deal with it now, in real time. He listened and is getting help. You know deep in your heart what best to say to your son. The sad truth is that if he doesn't address the core wound his dad's inflicted then there is every chance he could repeat the pattern. That's the best argument for therapy.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
^^^ I'm sorry Ha. I feel like my response was clinical and focused solely on your son without asking you how you are doing in all of this ... it isn't easy. How are you holding up? Do you have someone in your life you can talk with about this? yeah, you're separated from the day to day, but if you're like me, the problem is I would get sucked back into the vortex by how my son was affected. I was grateful for IC which helped me process it all. Sending you hugs xoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
It's unfortunate that the funny, quirky stories have now turned tragic, but not surprising to you I'm sure.
I second what bttrfly said. My son has struggled greatly with the same issues: will I be like dad, will I do this to my family, can I ever be in a relationship with someone. He has been seeing a male counselor for a couple of years now that he is very comfortable with. They talk a lot about how son wants to be, how he wants to treat people, what kind of man he wants to be. My son has improved immensely. He is managing his moods very well and can calmly discuss the things that bother him now.
I struggle to understand these men. If I suddenly announced I was dating a 25 year old man, the logical assumption would be that he was using me for my resources; yet these men seem to feel flattered by being used financially from hard-up women. I find it somewhat humorous that the guy I supported for 25 years is now shacked up (and likely working on divorce number two) with a woman he supports full time on half his former pay (I will take action when and if the job situation miraculously improves).
Yes, happy to be separated from the antics. My guess is that 17 yo son will distance himself from dad even further when he goes away (mine said he would engage with them when free of my toxic influence--despite that they have phones, email, and know how to call and type--not so interested in dead old dad whether I'm around or not as it turns out). Maybe some day these guys will realize that the kids are old enough and smart enough to decide for themselves whether they want these leavers in their lives. At some point the hope is that they will really move on as they claim to have done and lead honorable lives that their children want to be part of. Probably not, but hope springs eternal.
I'm sorry for the angst this has given you and hope that barring these unpleasantries from your past that things are going well.
Ugh - I'm actually grateful my ex hooked up with his current wife about a year after we separated. But she was also young - 32 to my ex's 51 - and my boys (18-23) were pretty uncomfortable with the fact that she looked more like someone THEY would date than like someone they could picture with their dad. Still, they didn't have to hear stories of him dating. They get along ok with her now (she wasn't an affair partner thank god). But their whole view of marriage is skewed, because they thought they grew up in a home with a stable marriage, and when the rug was pulled out from under them, it really does leave them with a feeling that nothing can be counted on.
But their whole view of marriage is skewed, because they thought they grew up in a home with a stable marriage, and when the rug was pulled out from under them, it really does leave them with a feeling that nothing can be counted on.
you've just described my son to a "t"
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Hope - just to clarify, my ex was not sharing the nude pics with them. My son’s girlfriend happened to see him looking at them as she had a view over his shoulder. Thanks for the book recommendation. Very helpful suggestion.
Bttrfly - my son is just not open to therapy right now, wish he were but he’s not. That said, he is doing an astounding job at processing and piecing things together. His ability to read the room is strong. He told me his dad bragging about 25 year old conquests shows his week self esteem and his need to get validation from women vs. from himself. He recognizes the behavior as pathetic. Pretty astute for a 17 year old.
Ownit - you nailed it, the quirkiness is now really tragic. Ex is clearly a total creep of a guy. Thankfully he has had decent role models through friends; their dads. It makes my son sad and jealous though that his dad is not at their level.
And KML - this is exactly what I am facing. My son is worried about building any kind of a future after this. He is scared by the prospect of this kind of unpredictability.
Bttrfly - as for me, thanks for asking, I feels tremendous guilt and sadness and anger that this has been heaped upon my kids. I worry a lot about the long term impact of all this.
But each glimpse of my ex’s life is a reveal. He is really lost. You have to drop all expectations with this sort of guy. It helps me create more mental distance between myself and him. I want him out of my life entirely; just wish I could brush him off like the lint he is.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
