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wayfarer #2920584 06/29/21 01:40 PM
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WF,

Sounds like acceptance is your struggle. I just that stolen word makes it super personal for you. You see that time as belonging to "YOU" and not your H? Was it your stolen time or your lost dream? Your non fulfilled expectation?

Stolen, implies that someone TOOK something from you. Something that only belonged to you. But that time you are speaking of was for the both of you. Seems to me like you are also adding the OW subconsciously, because you think she took it as well, or maybe you believe your H, "GAVE" her something your believed, belong to you, his time, which was part of your "life", that you can never get back. Do you think your H TOOK your time? Or did he not fulfill your expectation?


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
wayfarer #2920687 06/30/21 02:46 PM
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Great post joejoe.

WF I know it takes time to stop looking back, and start looking forward. It took me a good year post R starting to stop looking back and having a feeling of a sense of almost resentment about what she put us through. While I was a pretty terrible husband, I was pretty disappointed that she didn't try to work through our problems instead of pulling up stakes. This forum helped me see that her pulling up stakes didn't happen overnight, and that she used subtle ways to try to "wake me up", but even into R I was kind of miffed that she didn't sit me down and explain to me the seriousness of our situation and what it was making her contemplate. Eventually, I moved past it, but there was a feeling of being given up on.


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
wayfarer #2920712 06/30/21 05:44 PM
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Steve,

I know I still have some of that rear view mirror thing going on. I know I'll get past it eventually. The baby thing is one of the things that sticks. Definitely the feeling of being given up on is still there too. Maybe just in a different way.

I feel like he gave up on me and us. That it was easier to pull up stakes than even so much as bother to tell me what was going on in his head. That he was able to pretend that he did all he could to try to stay when I repeatedly asked him what was going on, what was on his mind, why he felt so distant, what I could do for us to be better and his answer was always nothing I'm fine, we're fine. And then we weren't. I saw the stakes being pulled up, recognized it, called it out and I was shrugged off. That's the giving up on us that I get stuck on.

He has since recon apologized a lot for internalizing my depression and not doing any research on it at all. I know how hard my depression made loving me, and being with me. I've repeatedly apologized for not getting help sooner, but I'm still carrying a lot of anger that it wasn't until recon started that he even attempted to understand that depression isn't just being sad and isn't fixed by eating right and exercise and smiles. Like 2 min google search, the absolute bare minimum in hoping to find away to make things better was too much prior to the A. He's apologized for that too. But that is the part that makes me feel like he just gave up on me. He had to put up with a depressed yet functioning wife. Was I miserable to be around. Yup. But I wasn't making his life miserable on purpose. I wasn't doing anything to undermine him, or hurt him, or control him. I was just trying to survive and that's all it took for him to want to walk away.

wayfarer #2920717 06/30/21 06:22 PM
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Oh, and the other thing I have had a hard time getting past was that this woman who puts such a premium on honesty, could blatantly look me in the eye and lie.

Like when I found sex toys hidden. I asked her about them. "I was hoping that they would increase my desire and help our sex life." That was an out and out lie. It was because of her interest in sex, just not with me, and trying to find an outlet for it. If she had been honest with me I would have started trying to do things that would help our situation. But the lie robbed me of that. The defensive part of my brain WANTED to believe it. Even though the logical part of my brain didn't think it made sense.

And then all of the lies I caught her in during the thick of our sitch. Even now, 3 years later I still wonder what lies she is capable of. sandi talks about the WS being completely different than the person we thought we knew. But there are always lingering doubts wondering if the WS side was more true to who she really was/is? Those thoughts have eased as time has passed, but I'd be lying to say they were completely gone.


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
wayfarer #2920731 06/30/21 09:04 PM
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I get that part. Not so much with the honesty thing but he basically told me 8 years ago I was the plan B OW was plan A but she decided another guy was a better option than my H so instead of continue to juggle us and eventually ghost me he decided to keep me around and then actually fell for me entirely by accident. Fast forward to the A and I'm told I was plan B, and that I've always been plan B, I was basically a place holder, this is kismet, this is the universe putting his life into the place it should've been 8 years go and I just need to accept it. God it hurt, but even in my logical mind I was like he's full of it. Deep in the A once I let go and acted like I couldn't careless what he was doing or that he wanted to leave he'd follow me around the house to talk to. All I could think was why don't you go talk to plan A. I'm sure she actually cares. I knew the full plan B thing was such crap. If she was always plan A why wasn't she around our whole MR? But your intention with the this relationship is to keep me around as your bff?? Oh come on.

Then after the A when OW dumped him and he started to come around and try I was constantly fighting the feeling that he was only coming around because I'm the secondary plan. We're in lockdown he doesn't have other options. She dumped him he's desperate and lonely. Now he's apologized profusely for say those things to me. He's called him sell an a$$ for behaving like that. That I am his best friend and he's and idiot. All of the remorse stuff. But I still wonder all the time am I really the path that you want or am I just comfortable and safe?

SteveLW #2920739 07/01/21 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveLW
Oh, and the other thing I have had a hard time getting past was that this woman who puts such a premium on honesty, could blatantly look me in the eye and lie.

Like when I found sex toys hidden. I asked her about them. "I was hoping that they would increase my desire and help our sex life." That was an out and out lie. It was because of her interest in sex, just not with me, and trying to find an outlet for it. If she had been honest with me I would have started trying to do things that would help our situation. But the lie robbed me of that. The defensive part of my brain WANTED to believe it. Even though the logical part of my brain didn't think it made sense.

And then all of the lies I caught her in during the thick of our sitch. Even now, 3 years later I still wonder what lies she is capable of. sandi talks about the WS being completely different than the person we thought we knew. But there are always lingering doubts wondering if the WS side was more true to who she really was/is? Those thoughts have eased as time has passed, but I'd be lying to say they were completely gone.


I struggle with this too Steve. Much less so than I used to, something that I will never understand, so I have stopped trying. I can't imagine how I would deal with it if we had reconciled. My STBXW had always said she hated liars and cheats. Her and her two BFs are a trio of women who have cheated on and lied to their H/STBXHs.

Has your W gone back to being the person you remember? HAs she ever made comments about the importance of honesty since?


Me: 40 W:41
T: 14 M: 11
S: 5

BD & OM Jun 2020
W moves out Aug 2020

"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
wayfarer #2920748 07/01/21 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by wayfarer
I get that part. Not so much with the honesty thing but he basically told me 8 years ago I was the plan B OW was plan A but she decided another guy was a better option than my H so instead of continue to juggle us and eventually ghost me he decided to keep me around and then actually fell for me entirely by accident. Fast forward to the A and I'm told I was plan B, and that I've always been plan B, I was basically a place holder, this is kismet, this is the universe putting his life into the place it should've been 8 years go and I just need to accept it. God it hurt, but even in my logical mind I was like he's full of it. Deep in the A once I let go and acted like I couldn't careless what he was doing or that he wanted to leave he'd follow me around the house to talk to. All I could think was why don't you go talk to plan A. I'm sure she actually cares. I knew the full plan B thing was such crap. If she was always plan A why wasn't she around our whole MR? But your intention with the this relationship is to keep me around as your bff?? Oh come on.

Then after the A when OW dumped him and he started to come around and try I was constantly fighting the feeling that he was only coming around because I'm the secondary plan. We're in lockdown he doesn't have other options. She dumped him he's desperate and lonely. Now he's apologized profusely for say those things to me. He's called him sell an a$$ for behaving like that. That I am his best friend and he's and idiot. All of the remorse stuff. But I still wonder all the time am I really the path that you want or am I just comfortable and safe?


Yeah, the doubts are real. And I can say that I still struggle with doubts 3+ years on. But the one thing I've continued to do is to be self-differentiated. I feel that self-differentiation is key to success in Rs. You just cannot react emotionally to every mood and whim of your SO. That doesn't work. It never works. And if you allow your SO to affect your emotional well-being then you are way too overly attached and setting yourself up for problems down the line. This is why I try to get LBSs to understand that their spouse could be taken from them at any moment through accident or disease, not to mention to D. So being happy and fulfilled independently as part of an R is as important as the work that needs to be put into the R itself. I try to remind myself that I need to be internally happy and fulfilled in order to be happy and fulfilled in my MR!

But yeah, the doubts are real............


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
OnlyBent #2920749 07/01/21 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Oh, and the other thing I have had a hard time getting past was that this woman who puts such a premium on honesty, could blatantly look me in the eye and lie.

Like when I found sex toys hidden. I asked her about them. "I was hoping that they would increase my desire and help our sex life." That was an out and out lie. It was because of her interest in sex, just not with me, and trying to find an outlet for it. If she had been honest with me I would have started trying to do things that would help our situation. But the lie robbed me of that. The defensive part of my brain WANTED to believe it. Even though the logical part of my brain didn't think it made sense.

And then all of the lies I caught her in during the thick of our sitch. Even now, 3 years later I still wonder what lies she is capable of. sandi talks about the WS being completely different than the person we thought we knew. But there are always lingering doubts wondering if the WS side was more true to who she really was/is? Those thoughts have eased as time has passed, but I'd be lying to say they were completely gone.


I struggle with this too Steve. Much less so than I used to, something that I will never understand, so I have stopped trying. I can't imagine how I would deal with it if we had reconciled. My STBXW had always said she hated liars and cheats. Her and her two BFs are a trio of women who have cheated on and lied to their H/STBXHs.

Has your W gone back to being the person you remember? HAs she ever made comments about the importance of honesty since?


To your first question, yes she has. But your second question is a good one. I don't think she has verbalized like she used to before our most recent sitch. I think she knows that her deception through all of that means that her integrity now is based on actions, not words. I will give her credit for trying to live up to the honesty standard rather than giving it lip service.

Last edited by SteveLW; 07/01/21 11:58 AM.

M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
wayfarer #2920774 07/01/21 07:15 PM
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Steve,

It's crazy to see a person transform from one emotional state to another. My W was definitely in a WW space. I got to read some of the text between her and her AP. I could see the change in her through those text. I also got to view her searches and saw her that matched her verbal output doing that time. She lied a whole hell of a lot. And I know, I will never be able to fully trust her again. But, I won't be able to trust any person other than myself 100% ever again. I navigate our Relationship and Marriage thru boundaries and actions. If my boundaries are being encroached upon, I calmed inform that I'm uncomfortable with whatever is happening at the moment. If my W actions aren't in line with her communication with me, I let her know.

She has worked hard to make me feel secure and safe. Will she ever betray me again. I DON"T KNOW, but that's not my concern anymore. I can't control any person's actions. I can only control mines, and understanding that about myself has given me the confidence to know, that I can trust myself to respect myself to do what's best for me and my boys no matter the situation. And I carry myself that way.

My wife knows, our Marriage isn't a guarantee and neither is my commitment. And I think her and I knowing that makes our M stronger. It makes us work harder to ensure that we are staying vigilant and keeping the Relationship between us strong.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
joejoe1 #2920787 07/02/21 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by joejoe1
Steve,

It's crazy to see a person transform from one emotional state to another. My W was definitely in a WW space. I got to read some of the text between her and her AP. I could see the change in her through those text. I also got to view her searches and saw her that matched her verbal output doing that time. She lied a whole hell of a lot. And I know, I will never be able to fully trust her again. But, I won't be able to trust any person other than myself 100% ever again. I navigate our Relationship and Marriage thru boundaries and actions. If my boundaries are being encroached upon, I calmed inform that I'm uncomfortable with whatever is happening at the moment. If my W actions aren't in line with her communication with me, I let her know.

She has worked hard to make me feel secure and safe. Will she ever betray me again. I DON"T KNOW, but that's not my concern anymore. I can't control any person's actions. I can only control mines, and understanding that about myself has given me the confidence to know, that I can trust myself to respect myself to do what's best for me and my boys no matter the situation. And I carry myself that way.

My wife knows, our Marriage isn't a guarantee and neither is my commitment. And I think her and I knowing that makes our M stronger. It makes us work harder to ensure that we are staying vigilant and keeping the Relationship between us strong.


Good stuff, Joe! Very relatable to my situation too.


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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