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Hey Mako,

So I come to this stuff from the perspective of both a WW in my first MR. And as an LBS in my second. So when I see advice to LBH's I'm a little wary when people get a little too personal situation specific. Some things are true of all WS/WAS. Some is not. However a lot of the advice here is gold make sure to digest it.

R2C's advice of GALing but opening the invitation is such, such good advice. "If I was in your shoes, I would find something that would be light and fun with food and music. Someplace you could go by yourself or with her. Plan on going by yourself, but make room for her to join. Have a sitter ready." Sandi is a big proponent of that. It's in the DR book. And it worked for me. We were pretty trapped due to Covid last summer but I would go hiking and invite him or to our neighbor's for a drink around the fire. He refused often in the beginning but eventually started warming up and joining. After time he started inviting me to his plans, and then eventually wanted to make plans together. Much like when you start dating. Like the early, early days. Not yet committed, but not entirely single either. Not saying this is fool proof. None of this is. It's all 1/2 chance 1/2 choice here. However, if there's a door to be opened this is an excellent way to find out without pressure or being invasive. But that only rings true if you can do so with out expectation. You have to have a "the chips will fall where they may" attitude about all of this or you will end up hurt, frustrated and disappointed. WS/WAS do not work on an LBS time line. They work at a sloth like pace until they don't. It makes no sense but it is what it is. Expectations set you both up for failure.

Which brings me to my next point, well Steve's point actually. "WASs tend to be more like ships than zero-turn mowers. Rarely do they turn away from their "I want a D!" pronouncement quickly. My sitch had a relatively fast turnaround, but it was till months, not days for it to happen." This line of Steve's not only made me giggle because of the sheer accuracy but it's also a good thing to keep in mind going forward. If there is going to be a return here, a recon, she is going to do it at her own pace, and you will have absolutely no control over that. She won't do it at a pace you'd like. She won't do it linearly either. If this isn't her biding her time parts of the relationship will start to get on track faster than others. It will be confusing, and frustrating. But If this is what you want and you're willing to wait for it you have to sit in that confusion and you can't dump it on her. We each make choices here. Choosing to wait it out often means eating sh!t sandwiches you more than likely don't deserve. But if it's the path you choose it comes with the territory.

All of this takes time. More than you would like it to. And limbo genuinely stinks. I'm glad you've picked a drop dead date. It really does relieve some weight off your shoulders. Good luck mako.

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So I think to get a clear picture you we need to look at what has transpired. M's wife went onto OLD to test her SMV (sexual market value) looking for a BBD (bigger better deal). At some point she found that deal and was ready to make the deal final. Somewhere along the way that deal went south and now she wants to stop the D process. She didn't stop the process because she realized she is madly in love with MAKO. She lost her BBD. So MAKO can certainly see how it plays out or he can decide he is no one's plan B and dictate what he needs to see from her to move this marriage forward. I totally agree with Wayfarer " If this isn't her biding her time parts of the relationship will start to get on track faster than others. It will be confusing, and frustrating. But If this is what you want and you're willing to wait for it you have to sit in that confusion and you can't dump it on her. We each make choices here. Choosing to wait it out often means eating sh!t sandwiches you more than likely don't deserve. But if it's the path you choose it comes with the territory."

I also agree when she said "All of this takes time. More than you would like it to. And limbo genuinely stinks. I'm glad you've picked a drop dead date. It really does relieve some weight off your shoulders."

Here's the rub. If she is biding her time it certainly is not going to turnaround by next February. WWs can go many years in LIMBO.


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Hi Mako,

I have learned and practiced a huge set of relationship behaviors since my divorce 10+ years ago.

I am not looking for answers, but rather throwing this out for you to think about.

Have you done your homework in attraction and seduction (there is a difference)? How much have you changed your behavior since the bomb drop? Are all the negative traits gone? Are the new attractive ones habit now? Is your SMV significantly higher? Are you a BBD than the "old you"? Will she be pleasantly surprised next time you are intimate? What about each time after that? Are you now an expert in listening and validation? Has there been enough time and space for the resentment to fade?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Ready2Change, since this may interest mako and we've already used/abused this thread--

For ATTRACTION an online course suggested being confident in yourself is key (i.e., address anything that makes you insecure) and to remember you're evaluating your date/partner as much as they are evaluating you (equal balance of power). I seem to do well--probably those common-sense notions help.

For SEDUCTION, hmm, when there's mutual attraction, romance seems to fall into place no matter how smooth or unsmooth my moves, because we both want it to. When mutual attraction is lacking, most moves feel forced/gamey. I'm curious what your top tips would be--light touch whenever an opportunity arises?

I suspect in dating your long-term happiness is optimized by focusing only on situations where the mutual attraction is high, but in WAS/LBS situations you may not have that convenience starting out.



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Originally Posted by CWarrior
For ATTRACTION an online course suggested being confident in yourself is key (i.e., address anything that makes you insecure) and to remember you're evaluating your date/partner as much as they are evaluating you (equal balance of power). I seem to do well--probably those common-sense notions help.


Here is a good read on ATTRACTION:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984

I view seduction as a covert way of attracting. There has not been much discussion on the boards on this topic.
There is a link here about SEDUCTION:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094
Definitely a must read during ones personal growth.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by Ready2Change
I have learned and practiced a huge set of relationship behaviors since my divorce 10+ years ago.

I am not looking for answers, but rather throwing this out for you to think about.

Have you done your homework in attraction and seduction (there is a difference)? How much have you changed your behavior since the bomb drop? Are all the negative traits gone? Are the new attractive ones habit now? Is your SMV significantly higher? Are you a BBD than the "old you"? Will she be pleasantly surprised next time you are intimate? What about each time after that? Are you now an expert in listening and validation? Has there been enough time and space for the resentment to fade?


Thanks for posting this R2C. I will not be Ring with my STBXW, but I will use this as a template moving forward with any potential partner to assess that my growth on development is a continuing and lasting process. These are great questions to keep asking oneself, I think it would be easy to become complacent once the pain of BD is firmly in the rearview mirror.


Me: 40 W:41
T: 14 M: 11
S: 5

BD & OM Jun 2020
W moves out Aug 2020

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Originally Posted by mako
Our 10 year anniversary is in 2 weeks. I haven’t brought it up with her or made any plans, not sure what to do about it.

What have you decided for the Anniversary?


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mako,

Originally Posted by SteveLW
WASs tend to be more like ships than zero-turn mowers.

Fantastic quote from SteveLW!

Originally Posted by wayfarer
R2C's advice of GALing but opening the invitation is such, such good advice. "If I was in your shoes, I would find something that would be light and fun with food and music. Someplace you could go by yourself or with her. Plan on going by yourself, but make room for her to join. Have a sitter ready." Sandi is a big proponent of that. It's in the DR book. And it worked for me. We were pretty trapped due to Covid last summer but I would go hiking and invite him or to our neighbor's for a drink around the fire. He refused often in the beginning but eventually started warming up and joining. After time he started inviting me to his plans, and then eventually wanted to make plans together. Much like when you start dating. Like the early, early days. Not yet committed, but not entirely single either. Not saying this is fool proof. None of this is. It's all 1/2 chance 1/2 choice here. However, if there's a door to be opened this is an excellent way to find out without pressure or being invasive. But that only rings true if you can do so with out expectation. You have to have a "the chips will fall where they may" attitude about all of this or you will end up hurt, frustrated and disappointed. WS/WAS do not work on an LBS time line. They work at a sloth like pace until they don't. It makes no sense but it is what it is. Expectations set you both up for failure

wayfarer - So glad it worked for you. Pretty slick.

Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Have you done your homework in attraction and seduction (there is a difference)? How much have you changed your behavior since the bomb drop? Are all the negative traits gone? Are the new attractive ones habit now? Is your SMV significantly higher? Are you a BBD than the "old you"? Will she be pleasantly surprised next time you are intimate? What about each time after that? Are you now an expert in listening and validation? Has there been enough time and space for the resentment to fade?
Thanks for posting this R2C. I will not be Ring with my STBXW, but I will use this as a template moving forward with any potential partner to assess that my growth on development is a continuing and lasting process. These are great questions to keep asking oneself, I think it would be easy to become complacent once the pain of BD is firmly in the rearview mirror.

As will I, OB! As will I.

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by mako
Our 10 year anniversary is in 2 weeks. I haven’t brought it up with her or made any plans, not sure what to do about it.
What have you decided for the Anniversary?

mako - Sounds like your 10yr anniversary is this coming weekend...you set?


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
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Originally Posted by LH19

What have you decided for the Anniversary?


We are going out to lunch and I got her flowers. Like I said, low key but acknowledging the day.


Me: 43 W: 41
Together 2009, Married 2011
Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5
Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
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I personally tried to ignore my anniversary last year, but H wanted to recognize it. I told him I had plans that didn't include him. He told me to cancel them, it's a weird day, but we should do something. My best friends sent me flowers. H bought me dinner. It's turned out well but all of it was an internal struggle. I'm very interested in finding out what your W decided to do to mark the day.

Fun fact: "Traditionally, the 10th year of marriage is marked with tin or aluminum. Both materials represent the durability and flexibility needed to sustain a loving union."

Good luck Mako. I'll be thinking about you.

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