My Story P2...Acceptance of the MLC Madness

[Eagle3]

Or do you think that he still won't be able to come up with the money to buy you out in a few months either and you would rather take less money and get it sold now? Or is it a figment of his imagination that your share of the assets would be different if he bought you out versus if you sold and split the money?

The house we are currently living in is actually our dreamhouse we built. It was the one where we were planning to settle for the rest of our lives. We only lived about a month in the house when he dropped the B.
So the money he originally offered to sell me out wasn't bad and I would have agreed if he would have been able to get the loan. (or whatever the truth might be)

The whole house was built at a high level in choice of materials, hence it is very difficult to estimate if I will get more if it is sold. Supply/demand, what is someone willing to pay for it etc. will play a very big role in the sale.

I think you are close by saying that it is just a figment of his imagination.

I guess I will find out soon enough, "if" he is willing to sign the contract with the real estate since we need to sign the both of us. He will receive these documents today. Just got of the phone with them to make the last amendments.

If the banks won’t give H enough of a loan now, a few months probably isn’t going to make any difference. It looks to me like H is dragging his feet in the hopes you will get exasperated and just settle for less.

I have that feeling as well, that's why I'm proceeding with the sale of it. He is constantly lying, I don't believe anything he says anymore.

Can I just ask you DnJ, what is BS? I have seen this abbreviation already several times but don't know what it means.

Your H is most likely manipulating you as the others suggest. Just moving and getting it over with might be hard while it’s happening for your kids, but would help to prevent further delays or games. Remove options for control and access so to speak. And if you really want to move to the other town then maybe it’s what will make the stress and change worth it. Even for the kids if they are excited about that possibility.

They are extremely excited to move. For them the current house is a fanastic house with many great options but it hasn't brought them happiness, only grief. That is why they want to move, they even want a smaller house, where luxury is not the first priority, but happiness and love is. They have learned a great lesson there, that's for sure.

I forgot you were not in the states, Eagle. That is such a different approach than here! It is interesting that they do not think they have to help you get to that point, but maybe in some ways it's better. Imagine if my H couldn't have dragged me through the courts for 3 years and wasted 150K he doesn't have on a lawyer because that just wasn't a path to divorce.

My guess is that for me it is easier than for you in regards to approach. Where I live you can not refuse to have a divorce. If one party wants to divorce, the other one can't say no.

Remember, H will not do anything that makes sense and will not advocate even for his own true interests. His mind is not working properly except to seek drama and despair.

I know, I know, I know....but I think you'll have to remind me of this over and over. This is still the hardest part for me.
Accepting that my once so loving, family-minded husband with full of beautiful values is gone and most likely will never return.

[DnJ]

BS is short for Bullsh_t.

The excrement of a bull. A pile of smelly fertilizer. If it looks like BS, sounds like BS, smells like BS - it probably is. No matter how much the other person says it isn’t.

[Eagle3]

Haha, as simple as that, yet, I didn't know.

So you see, very clear now...English is not my mother tongue

[DnJ]

Good Morning Eagle

It is easy to forget English is not your mother tongue given how well you converse. I did wonder, as I wrote, if you would know the slang BS or not. I’m glad you asked for clarity.

I see I made a typo in my post to you.

It should have read:

Do not believe a word he says!! His make believe narrative is BS! Sell the house and get your full amount.

(Darn cell phones and the small keyboards. And wee screens. And old eyes. Lol )

My guess is that for me it is easier than for you in regards to approach. Where I live you can not refuse to have a divorce. If one party wants to divorce, the other one can't say no.

In my locale divorce cannot be stopped, all it requires is one party to want it. It’s the splitting up and allocations of assets that can be contested and go on and on - only if both parties are willing to fight (more or less). Divorce is a pretty efficient business otherwise with many many many previous precedent setting situations. Charts and tables and formulas calculate and illustrate who owes what and to whom. It’s the “negotiating” that consumes time. However, if both parties can find resolution and somewhat fairness - yeah whatever that is as one is being divorced and betrayed and lied to and so on - it does go kind of smoothly.

My separation was straightforward, done in two months. The one year living separately period passed and XW applied to the courts with the same separation she crafted. There was nothing for me to contest or argue against - I had full custody of the kids, house, assets, accounts, and so on and she had her already received lump sum payment. It then took the minimum waiting period of 6 months to get the actual courts to sign off and legalize the divorce. I will be the first one to admit my divorce is not the norm and about as easy and expedient a divorce as one can most likely get. (Man oh man XW was an irrationally driven women)

Obviously if one party is demanding extremely unfair allocation of marital assets and the other party correctly does not and will not agree to such a lopsided deal, then things will take a while to sort out. The consuming of financial resources can be extensive when one negotiates/fights in the courts or even when proceeding with legal mediation. Both of these paths take considerable time and resources for one is not upon these choices lightly. They take this path due to the unfair proposal and not being able to amicable find a neutral agreed upon ground. In the world of MLC it seems more often the case an irrational spouse either wanting a fast easy divorce making a good deal being driven by their guilt and desire for their new life, or they dig in and drag things out either wanting to crush their spouse or just not wanting to face their situation. All of which has absolutely nothing to do with the LBS. MLC is a dark abyss of pain that the person in crisis is embroiled within. It started long before we were ever on the scene and we were not invited along for their journey.

Rational behaviours from a MLC spouse is not to be expected. The dissolving of the business deal of marriage is going to be a sideways adventure. Rational doesn’t work. Amicable doesn’t work. Negotiating can work if the MLCer feels they want it or proposed it. That takes a light touch and a spouse who is predisposed in the right manner.

My XW didn’t want to fight and wanted a divorce all wrapped up quickly. She actually announced, to me and son, her consummating her affair just before her morning meeting on day 6; yuck, standing there in the kitchen telling me and son. Adultery is one of the two things one can get divorced without the requisite one year separation period. (The other is abuse, either physical or mental) XW’s extensive research (sarcasm lol) taught her that, so poof! “Now we can get a divorce” was how she proudly and smugly announced her dalliance. Her first proposal of separation had a clause where I had to charge her for adultery before the courts so she could plead guilty. (Her lawyer and my lawyer never seen anything like it. Our case is quite the rarity it seems.)

For an irrational person they have to feel like they’ve won. One must realize, the crisis person is usually angry or mad, hence the irrational and emotional decisions and not the more intellectual and rational considerations of seeking resolution. Unfortunately, that anger is usually irrationally projected upon the LBS. So, we have to appear to have lost - in the MLCer’s eyes. And, as I said, it is not us losing, it them winning, is the actual feeling they need.

My XW’s defiance turned away from me and towards her lawyer. He made the mistake of trying to slow her down. He made her see a financial planner before he would allow her to sign the separation agreement. XW came back still resolute. He made her see yet another financial planner. She then “showed” him. How dare he treat her like a child. She told him what she wanted and her L had her sign a waiver that she was going against his advice. She was more than happy to do that since she knew better then him, me, the kids, the world.

Once signed, irrational choices are as legally binding as rational choices.

Anyhow, treat this as a business deal gone wrong. Stay rational and logical when making decisions (which you have been). Do what is right for you, and where you can negotiate, let H lead and feel like it is his idea. He may just stumble upon and propose something that is good for you. Otherwise keeping moving forward and continue as you have been.

D

[Eagle3]

Thank you DnJ, but it is very difficult to let him give the feeling that he is taking the lead since the only thing he has done is...nothing. He simply wants to live his life and wants me to be here when he comes over to be his maid.

I did something that would normally be discouraged by DB, but I honestly couldn't resist. I had to get it out of my system...

H received an email yesterday from the real estate agency for the sale of the house, I got a response from him today . Very rude language about how I "handled it", really meant to bring me down completely. Believe me, I was immediately blown away.

After a few hours of careful thought, I decided to send a response. Does this make sense to an MLC’er, no, but it makes sense to me. I’m so fed up with the way he threats me.

I have remained friendly and understanding at all times but have provided him with a firm answer.

My reaction:

I haven't handled anything yet. Is a proposal that can still be changed, feel free to give your input.

You have indicated that you wanted a divorce, I do not support this myself and have never supported this, but I have respected and accepted your choice.
The logical consequence is that decisions have to be made that are not really great fun.

You wished to purchase. Unfortunately, this is not possible as the loan is difficult to obtain.

The only option that's left is to sell the house.

"Then some details about the sale and the contents that I cannot mention here."

Feel free to call or email me, if you wish to amend some things about the agency's proposal or if you have another proposal.
If not, we will continue with the attached and I will send the signed version to you and you can also sign.

Again, I don't want a fight or a conflict, and I certainly don't want to get the most out of it, you know me better than that, I just want to wrap things up nicely with you.

I know I didn't say the right things, and that I might elicit an even rougher response now, but it was stronger than myself.

I sincerely hope he will simply sign the papers.

[kml]

I think your email was just fine! And I hope it results in him being more cooperative.

[DnJ]

Hello Eagle

I agree, your email was fine.

H’s rude language and attack on how you handled things was disrespectful. You clearly stated the facts, threw in a truth dart or two (which is perfectly fine and even warranted in response to disrespect), told him the action you are taking and what he can expect (sale of house), and even asked for his input and made yourself available if he has questions. That, is very well done in my view. Great job!

H is doing nothing, and negotiating cannot happen when one party is doing nothing. His grandiose idea of getting a loan and buying the house appears to be falling flat, and you need financial security. Therefore continue pursuing the sale of the home.

D

[Eagle3]

I don't think I can count on a good cooperation kml...

Since I received no response to my email, I forwarded the signed version of the agency's contract to him on Sunday.

Got an answer yesterday.

Literally his words:
With all due respect, I can't sign this. Thought I said in the past that I can't accept that I should pay commission of x% (not even 0.000001%) to an agency to buy my own house?? That really doesn't work for me.

Then some calculations etc. and another question that if it is sold for that amount, what is left for us.

Basically he just stretches it, no more, no less.

I now want to send an answer back but I came to ask you some advice first, for all who is willing to.

I would like to send the following:

I honestly don't get it anymore. You cannot buy the house at the agreed price because you cannot get a loan, how do you see the further process, because I honestly see no other way out than selling with the option as I presented you.
You know if it goes below a certain price, there is no obligation to sell and you can still buy it.
We're not going to lose anything if we don't try.

Can you please tell me what you want, (his name), because it's not really clear to me anymore?



There's something else I wanted to share with you..., something I had on my my mind for a very long time but I was to anxious to take the step, now I finally did:

I had a difficult conversation with my MIL a few weeks ago.
I already mentioned that she is the biggest cause from his past as to why he is going through this crisis now.
(both my FIL's are convinced of this as well)

kml recommended the book about sociopaths and I started reading it.
Well, I totally recognize his mother in this.

The story in short:
I knew for several months already from my BIL and SIL that she could say very ugly things about me.
She even said that it must be me as to why this is all happening with him, also that I was mainly with him for the money etc.
You need to know that I've done a lot for her over the years. She is single (2x married, 2x divorced, and treated both her husbands very badly), but I was always there to take care of her when she had an accident, ill from COVID etc, and most important, she was always welcome at my house until a few weeks ago. She even came on a weekly basis...

After much thought and good advice from my best friend and my sister, who both know the full situation, I decided to cut her out of my life for a while. I could only do that by talking to her and honestly tell her what I feel about her relationship with her son and how she acts towards the children and me. (I did not mention anything about what BIL and SIL told me as I did not want to violate their trust)

That the way she treats her son or talks about her son is her choice but that she can not do this anymore in my house, not towards me nor to the kids because it's very painful. (she's constantly talking about how smart, beautiful, fantastic he is to anyone who wants to hear it, including himself. He can't do anything wrong to her, it's sick)

She was surprised and didn't like to hear what I was saying (she can say anything about anybody but nobody can tell her anything about her), and she told me she did that because everybody is against him and she wants him to feel good, as everybody makes a mistake sometimes. (says it all I guess)
I friendly acknowledged that it is her relationship and she does whatever she wants but not anymore towards me.
We seperated in a normal way.

If you know me a little bit, I'll be very honest, this was a very difficult thing to do, but aftwards the anxiety which I felt already so long when she was around is finally starting to fade.

When I had H on the phone 2 weeks ago he asked me if I had a fight with his Mom. Apparantely she told him we had a fight. What a joke...

Strange how a mom would do anything to bring her DIL in a bad light towards him.
It's like she wants him to choose her over me, can you imagine how crazy this is? This would never have to be a choice?

I simply told him the truth what happened and what I told her. He said he knew who and what she was and that it is good to take some distance from her because she is not a good person but that I'd better done it in another way...I left if for what it was.

Anyway, I'm currently sitting on my covered terrace with my PC, it was a very hot day today, and there was just a huge thunderstorm.
The rain which just fell gave a cooling down to the trees and the grass and it simply smells wonderful.
Life is good right now.

[Traveler]

Hi Eagle, for what it's worth not knowing MLC and your situation as well as the situations in the "Surviving" forum, I applaud setting boundaries on your relationship with MIL. He is no longer acting as your H, so if she is a drain on your life, limiting your interactions with her and/or removing her from your life is great.

As for the e-mail, my first thought is to shorten it--

You cannot buy the house at the agreed price because you cannot get a loan, how do you see the further process, because I honestly see no other way out than selling with the option as I presented you.

Can you please tell me what you want, (his name), because it's not really clear to me anymore?

This cuts out the first line, which sounds frustrated, and the attempt to persuade him, "We're not going to lose anything if we don't try." Such transparent attempts often have the opposite effect.

My second thought is I wonder what your point is with this questioning? You're asking for his plan, and given he can't get a loan and he has a zero commission fantasy, he probably doesn't have one. It almost sounds like an R talk. Are you trying to get your half of the money out of the home a.s.a.p. so you can downsize and move? If yes, wouldn't you be better served by talking to your lawyer to learn your options for forcing the sale (I assume that's possible in your area)? If that's not your endgame, why nudge him for a plan?

[DnJ]

Hello Eagle

MLCers will play games, and H is dragging things out.

A couple of ideas come to mind. Does H still live abroad? I am thinking he still does. That being the case, you could continue to live in the house. I know it is not your primary consideration in all this, financial protection is. However, as much as H can block the sale of the house, so can you. So, you have some protection.

Doing that prolongs this limbo you and the kids are living. I understand they and you are looking forward to starting fresh somewhere else. So that is also an important consideration.

Another thing. What do you want? Do you want the house? Do you want to buy out H? I believe you (and the kids) do not want to remain in this house. Dreamlike as it might be; too many bad memories and such. However, believe me, you will craft new and great memories and life wherever you and the kids reside. Whatever poor feelings are associated with the current house, will fade. If you want them to. So ensure your desire to sell and move is based on more than feelings.

If you truly do want to end your financial entanglement with the house, obtain your funds, and start somewhere else - proceed with it.

I am thinking a response like:

H, if you buy the house, buy me out from my share of the house, there would be no commission. There would just be some legal fees is all. However, you stated you cannot get a loan. And you have presented no other options for moving forward on your stated wish of purchasing the house.

I sincerely would like to proceed on the matter together, however I have asked for your input repeatedly and have received none. Therefore I will continue to make arrangements to sell the house.


Negotiating only work if the other party will even show up. H is dragging his feet. You can give him some more time and see, or you can press on and see what legal recourse you can take.

You only control you. Ensure your actions (or inactions) are what you want and proceed forward. Realize that doing nothing, being still and patient, is actually doing something. And that at times can have a positive affect.

I am illustrating both points of view for such an important matter. Personally, I think I’d proceed with telling H directly as suggested. It’s a boundary for the dragging of his feet and all his shenanigans. It clearly states your position and your direction; setting the stage quite clearly for your intended resolving of this matter, which you will be proceeding with.

Good for you dealing with MIL. You did well setting boundaries with her. And yes, those kinds of conversations are difficult to have. It is interesting to see how you recognized MIL’s behaviour is like the described behaviour in the book.

It’s little wonder that MIL didn’t appreciate your candid feedback. She clearly does not like being held accountable. Her views and narrative of her life holds H in a good light, while you get mistreated and slanderous comments. Her “everybody makes a mistake sometimes” is pretty telling.

Strange how a mom would do anything to bring her DIL in a bad light towards him.
It's like she wants him to choose her over me, can you imagine how crazy this is? This would never have to be a choice?

Yes, that is most irrational. A mom forcing and manipulating her son to choose her over his wife. MIL is an emotionally immature individual and she needs to be involved. And will make, and did make, herself involved. It is strange the relationships people have. Both H and MIL need to grow up some.

It completely make sense for your anxiety to lessened after getting this off your chest and clearing the air with MIL. Glad you enjoyed the nice rain and fresh day.

D