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To recap: W said she wanted a D just over 2 months ago, which wasnt a surprise after the past few years. Ive been here before and knew what to do, took steps to improve myself, and went a long way in finding detachment. Ws attitude didn't change, we agreed to the terms of D, and were probably under a month from being ready to file, I came to acceptance that its coming. W gets COVID, has a change of heart, and wants to work on the M. As of this post it is going ok but were really only around a week into the process so Im pretty much just going a day at a time, moving slowly.


First thread: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2915700#Post2915700


Me: 43 W: 41
Together 2009, Married 2011
Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5
Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
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mako Offline OP
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Not much happened this weekend. Two of the kids didnt feel that good so we didnt do much. I did some work around the house. W got a negative covid test so she can go back to work (mostly working at home but has to go in once in a while).

W and I have still been getting along fine. I had been taking things quite slowly and was actually wondering if I was going too slow. Then this morning I cuddled with her in bed, which is something I had been doing lately, and she said Im not ready for cuddling this makes me uncomfortable. So I said Thats ok, you just have to tell me these things. Theres my answer to whether Im going to slow or not.

Anyway, I dont really know what to make of all that, but I guess I need to keep taking it slow. She is definitely still treating me better than pre-BD, so she is in a positive place somewhat, but maybe she doesnt really know what she wants. I will perhaps still try the more subtle charges and see how that goes. I also have to remind myself that it took a long time to get here, it will take a long time to get through.

I havent been doing a lot of GAL lately, but Im going out tomorrow and probably Thursday so thats good. I probably need to get back into DBing mode.


Me: 43 W: 41
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Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
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Originally Posted by mako
Im not ready for cuddling this makes me uncomfortable. So I said Thats ok, you just have to tell me these things. Theres my answer to whether Im going to slow or not.

You need to 100% let her come to you now.
Originally Posted by mako
But maybe she doesnt really know what she wants.

Yep. She feels better now . Covid scare is over. Now she's not sure again. False starts are common.
Originally Posted by mako
I will perhaps still try the more subtle charges and see how that goes. I also have to remind myself that it took a long time to get here, it will take a long time to get through.
I would give her space.
[quote=mako] I havent been doing a lot of GAL lately, but Im going out tomorrow and probably Thursday so thats good. I probably need to get back into DBing mode.

Yep. GAL like a mad man.

Last edited by LH19; 05/03/21 05:05 PM.

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Originally Posted by mako
Not much happened this weekend. Two of the kids didnt feel that good so we didnt do much. I did some work around the house. W got a negative covid test so she can go back to work (mostly working at home but has to go in once in a while).

W and I have still been getting along fine. I had been taking things quite slowly and was actually wondering if I was going too slow. Then this morning I cuddled with her in bed, which is something I had been doing lately, and she said Im not ready for cuddling this makes me uncomfortable. So I said Thats ok, you just have to tell me these things. Theres my answer to whether Im going to slow or not.

Anyway, I dont really know what to make of all that, but I guess I need to keep taking it slow. She is definitely still treating me better than pre-BD, so she is in a positive place somewhat, but maybe she doesnt really know what she wants. I will perhaps still try the more subtle charges and see how that goes. I also have to remind myself that it took a long time to get here, it will take a long time to get through.

I havent been doing a lot of GAL lately, but Im going out tomorrow and probably Thursday so thats good. I probably need to get back into DBing mode.


Interesting update. mako, we do get quite a few sitches here where due to some issue (in your case the COVID stuff) the WAS starts to hedge a bit. LBS sees this as a sign that things are improving and goes too far in trying to move things along. Thus you get what happened with the attempt at cuddling.

This is why I suggested talk charges and SUBTLE touch charges. Cuddling with her in bed is not subtle. Think about it, you are both in your bed clothes, and your bodies are very close together. This results in expectations on your part ("maybe this will lead to sex!") and pressure on her part ("uh oh, I've sent him some messages lately suggesting I might stick around, now he is trying this!"). Neither of those two things are in your best interest. Expectations on your end, pressure on her end. That will always set you up for failure.

Whenever a LBS starts thinking "am I taking this too slow" I would argue that you should bring that question to the forum! Why? Because usually the problem is that you are getting impatient with the progress and are tempted to try an jump start it. Really the question is ALWAYS, in sitches like yours, are you taking it slow enough? Think about it, as soon as she starts showing signs that she wasn't running for the exits, you were in the starting block waiting for the gun to go off so you could go full tilt!

WASs are like cats. If you sit quietly and let them come to you, sometimes they will choose to do that. The minute you reach out to them they run the other way. That is what happened here. She took a couple of steps towards you. Instead of sitting still and quiet, you reached out to her. Her reflex was to run the other way.

I would back off of all touching for now. See how things go. In a couple of weeks if she starts to move back then you can go back to the subtle touch charges. Right now she is hypersensitive to any and all touching, so do not exacerbate that.

Go strictly with the talk charges. Make it a goal of once a day, finding a small thing, 30 seconds to a minute, to share with her. Expect no response. In fact, do not even let her respond. If she is in the kitchen pop in and say "Hey, I just hear on the radio that we are expecting a hotter than usual summer. Thought it was interesting." Then walk away. Like I said before, the talk charges did more to reconnect us than touch charges, or overt touching, ever could.


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mako Offline OP
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You all are right, I just need to back off physically. I had thought that doing that 180 would be useful but obviously we aren't there yet. Steve, I will go with just the talk charges for now and give that some time, see how things go.


Me: 43 W: 41
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Originally Posted by mako
Then this morning I cuddled with her in bed, which is something I had been doing lately, and she said Im not ready for cuddling this makes me uncomfortable.
How many times have you been cuddling with her recently? How many of those times were initiated by her?

During this phase, you want her to be pursuing you. You do not initiate. You behave as an attractive male. Get those core behaviors figured out and then live them. Drop beta behavior. You know you are behaving correctly when she desires you.

This is a huge onion you need to peel. There are many layers that need to be removed.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by mako
I will go with just the talk charges for now and give that some time, see how things go.
How many woman do you interact with on a daily bases? How many do you make laugh? How do they feel after the interaction? How many of those women find you attractive? Do you even know how to spot if they are attracted to you?

Just sounds like you are having a hard time with this one. No expectations with the others, just to make them feel good.



"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by Ready2Change
How many times have you been cuddling with her recently? How many of those times were initiated by her?

During this phase, you want her to be pursuing you. You do not initiate. You behave as an attractive male. Get those core behaviors figured out and then live them. Drop beta behavior. You know you are behaving correctly when she desires you.

This is a huge onion you need to peel. There are many layers that need to be removed.

***

How many woman do you interact with on a daily bases? How many do you make laugh? How do they feel after the interaction? How many of those women find you attractive? Do you even know how to spot if they are attracted to you?

Just sounds like you are having a hard time with this one. No expectations with the others, just to make them feel good.



It was less than daily, more than every other. Mostly initiated by me. Like I said, to some extent I was trying to walk the line between too much and this being a 180, but I'm just stopping at this point. You are all correct, I need to be attractive and let her pursue me.

***

I'll be honest, I don't feel like I know much about attracting women or recognizing when they find me attractive. In many ways I am socially clueless/oblivious. Also in the past 20 years I was with my W for more than 12 and my first W for more than 5, and I just didn't try with anyone else while with them. There were a few others prior and in between, but still it isn't a skill I have developed very much. Sure, I should have been honing that skill the whole time, at the very least with my Ws, but well, not much I can do about that now...I will say that both were very much attracted to me at various times during the relationships so I must have done something right and had it in me somewhere, as well as the ability to recognize it, so I will just need to figure that out. But probably for the most part that means working more towards the integrated male, anti-Mr. Nice Guy type, as I certainly see some NGS in myself.

Last edited by mako; 05/05/21 05:54 PM.

Me: 43 W: 41
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Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5
Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
Joined: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by mako
I'll be honest, I don't feel like I know much about attracting women or recognizing when they find me attractive. In many ways I am socially clueless/oblivious.
Looks like a good place for some personal growth. There is an awareness that I have now that I did not have before the end of my marriage.

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Also in the past 20 years I was with my W for more than 12 and my first W for more than 5, and I just didn't try with anyone else while with them.
Of course. You put boundaries up to protect the marriage. We all do. I had to rewire my brain after divorce.

Quote
It isn't a skill I have developed very much. Sure, I should have been honing that skill the whole time, at the very least with my Ws, but well, not much I can do about that now...
The hard part now is gaining experience and honing your skills. Really hard to do after the bomb drop with a spouse that is not working on the marriage. Maintaining but shifting your boundaries is needed.

Quote
I will say that both were very much attracted to me at various times during the relationships so I must have done something right and had it in me somewhere, as well as the ability to recognize it, so I will just need to figure that out. But probably for the most part that means working more towards the integrated male, anti-Mr. Nice Guy type, as I certainly see some NGS in myself.
Reflecting back and determining the attractive traits and dropping the unattractive traits is a good start. You can then start adding new behaviors that are attractive to women in general.

Dig around here:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984




"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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R2C is always giving homework haha!

I will say what works for me in terms of attracting women is knowing how to carry a smile right behind your lips without smiling. Be confident, prepare, speak clearly, stand tall, learn when to be direct and when to be coy. But there is a lot of info out there so go and get it.

In order to do these things you really aught to arrange some GAL around things that will make you better. Achieve something, build something, do something of value.


H 34
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BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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