One foot in front of the other

[Elbereth]

Talk to “your” boys. They are 18 and 20. Adults. Step-sons. Treat them as such. Treat them as friends and be their Mom. I sense you got the loving Mom thing down pat. As kids turns into adults they need to push away and find their own feet. It is a difficult time for a parent; as if any time is a walk in the park. Aside from actually walking in the park. smile

Speak with them as equals. Not to them, rather with them. Be open about their father’s interaction. And his lack thereof. Assure them you will be there for them. Answer questions honestly and age appropriately, which given their adult age will be pretty uncomfortable I suspect. They need answers and guidance, and you have the golden opportunity to provide for them. Of course they have to walk their path as well in all this, so a gentle approach will be required.

Never demonize their Dad. That is as much for you as it is for them. You job is not to facilitate the relationship between Dad and his boys, your job is not to destroy it. That goes for any parent, step or bio matters not. You are responsibly for your side of the relationship between you and each son; Dad is responsible for his.

I’ve walked this razor’s edge. Been yelled at, lash out to, and had to accept much more than I deserved from my kids. You see, kids cannot risk loosing their walk away parent. These poor youngsters need to express their emotions and they cannot tell dear old Dad what they think and feel. So, you will get the fallout aimed at you. It helps if you understand why the kids need to do what they need to do.

In time, as they, as we all do, grow up, they will express themselves clearly to Dad. And you will be fine and loved. It is interesting, the strong stable parent is always loved deeply, especially while the child is lashing out. That shows just how much they trust and feel comforted by you. They can express their feelings and know you will always be there.

Those are just a few ideas or goals to keep in mind as you journey forward along your path. I found most people have the desire to walk the needed and difficult path, they just needed clarity on the noble goals and direction to walk.

This advice (and the advice from Wayfarer) is so helpful...thank you. Yeah, it's a hard path. I have always done my best to not demonize their bio mom and I will do the same with their dad. I don't want to hurt their relationship at all...I just want to be sure I am supporting them and keep my relationship with them.

I wanted to stand for him, I did, but I don't know if I can anymore... I'm not in a rush to find someone new, but I refuse to wait for him to come to his senses.

We all start out that way. Standing is our default, a byproduct, until we heal enough to stand down. That is when standing really starts.

You don’t stand for H, or for your M. You stand for you!

Stand for you. Three words with a world of meaning.

You. Integrity, honour, honesty, compassion, kindness, forgiveness, loyalty, empathy, understanding, vows, and so on. Those tenets and core beliefs of life far eclipse H or M. There is an incredible strength when standing for yourself and your good noble values. It becomes a way of life. One lives to be the best they will be.

You might divorce, might have another relationship, or might not. Yet, you can and will stand for you.

Do the requisite business side of your situation to ensure your financial protection and security.

Do the requisite inner work to grow and strengthen your emotional, intellectual, and spiritual self.

Each path is necessary. Each path is different, and has different reasons and goals.

The latter path is much more a life long pursuit. One can get wrapped up in the need and rush to acquire financial security and couple their emotional path to a similar tact. Be patient and do your inner work slow and well, for it will serve you a lifetime.

Thank you for this. I am trying to do just that. I may be rushing the D, but I am not rushing the inner work. I am of the type that feels that one has to learn from their mistakes and I want to grow and learn and be a better future partner. I don't think anyone can be happy if they don't find that happiness within. I want it to serve me a lifetime. DnJ, have you thought of writing a book? You do have a way with words! So inspiring...thank you!

[SteveLW]

Elbereth, personally I think you're still trying to hold on too tight. It's almost if by rushing him he'll have second thoughts. I think your statement on wanting him to move in with OW proves this.

Hi SteveLW, thank you for your perspective. It does give me things to think about. I do not feel I am hoping he will have second thoughts or that I am pressuring him. I mean, I am not looking at it that way. Sure, I want him to realize the mistake he has made for my own pride, but I honestly do not feel like he will come around anytime soon regardless of what I do. One big thing that has me very impatient is that my H has problems finishing things. All things. Work, projects, everything. Even his closest friends tell him and he knows it but he can't help himself. I feel I am another unfinished thing in his life. He's already moved on to the next thing. He also doesn't deal with stress well and is forever overwhelmed (as if no one else has stress). I could wait it out...sure, let him stall, but then I feel I would just be going along while he's having a life with someone else, and I am in limbo while my assets that we share disappear. My fears financially really shifted to the max level when I discovered that he has already embedded himself legally and financially with this OW. So, yes, I want to protect myself financially...and yes, it's the best timing for selling the house (which is our most valuable asset), and yes, I want to be able to move forward myself and focus on my life (and my step-sons) instead of waiting for him to decide what he is doing. I can't control him, but I don't have to sit by and let him stall either...I have some influence is getting the process going. So that is what I am trying to do. I maybe could have done a better job at it, but that was my goal.

I've discussed all of this with my L and it has said that up until the separation (as my L sees it in our timeline as already in the past), funds will be looked at for what he has spent. But after that, it gets much harder in my state, so my L is also pressuring me to get the ball rolling as well as account for some of the known spending thus far. But he's hiding the thing with the OW, so I expect that he is hiding more. This will be my second D. Financially, I am devastated. So every little cent I can save/get matters. I put everything into both of my marriages. You think I would have learned but I didn't...I really have very little of my own, separate from our shared assets. So, yes, I'm afraid...and financially I should be. I'm not in good shape.

One last word of warning, if you're rushing things to end the pain, I'm afraid you'll be disappointed. Lots of LBSs rush things for the wrong reasons and end up D'd and miserable. This is why you should be working on yourself, dealing with your emotional baggage related to him, and learning to move forward happy and healthy. This last post concerns me because it's all about him. Where is your GAL? Where are the self improvements? Have you been working on emotional detachment? Elbereth, I forget, are you in IC?

I agree, this last post WAS all about him. I am trying very hard to in the GAL area. I am getting out for long walks that allow me to think, plan and dream, I take hot baths, I hang out with friends, I am doing a financial course to help me learn how to manage what money I will have left (and work with an investor to help it grow), and I'm working on my portfolio to expand my business prospects. I'm reading a lot of self-help books too. I'm getting exercise, I'm eating well, and I've been doing a lot of trips to the doctors to get my health back. I feel frustrated and sad at what is happening, and it's hard and it [censored], but I am functioning...I am moving forward, I am planning my future. I'm not waiting around for him or asking him to change his mind anymore. I hope this means I am doing the right things? At least I'm trying...but...I am still stalking the OW on social...and I know I should stop. Soon I will.

As for IC, I'm in between at the moment. But planning to do more FOR SURE. I agree that it's important. I am doing everything I can to move forward happy and healthy regardless of what happens with H. Anyway, thank you for your perspective and suggestions. I am really trying to be logical about my situation, and I am trying to do as much of the work on myself as I can too.

El

Elbereth, very good stuff here. I guess my only concern for you is to not rush this through with the thought that it will end your pain sooner. I'm a proponent, as you know, of setting a dropdead date. On that date move forward with the D with no looking back and no regrets. But it has to be long enough out that the LBS can work through all of the emotional baggage they have left with their WAS. Earn your way out, as the bald Texan TV psychologist says.

I also am concerned with your acting out of fear. Acting out of fear rarely gets you to where you want and need to be. Finances are always a concern in D, and I get that. But I believe in hard work to get to the financial security so many crave. No marriage or D can replace that. And as far as your L, they always push to file and moved forward. I encountered the same in my sitch. All I wanted was knowledge, the L I consulted with pushed me to file immediately. You have to sift the wheat from the chaff.

El, you're definitely one of the strongest LBWs we've had here. I just don't want you to believe that you can shortcut the emotional side of precessing through all of this.

[Elbereth]

Elbereth, very good stuff here. I guess my only concern for you is to not rush this through with the thought that it will end your pain sooner. I'm a proponent, as you know, of setting a dropdead date. On that date move forward with the D with no looking back and no regrets. But it has to be long enough out that the LBS can work through all of the emotional baggage they have left with their WAS. Earn your way out, as the bald Texan TV psychologist says.

I also am concerned with your acting out of fear. Acting out of fear rarely gets you to where you want and need to be. Finances are always a concern in D, and I get that. But I believe in hard work to get to the financial security so many crave. No marriage or D can replace that. And as far as your L, they always push to file and moved forward. I encountered the same in my sitch. All I wanted was knowledge, the L I consulted with pushed me to file immediately. You have to sift the wheat from the chaff.

El, you're definitely one of the strongest LBWs we've had here. I just don't want you to believe that you can shortcut the emotional side of precessing through all of this.

I don't feel that I believe that I can shortcut the emotional side of processing all of this...so I'm doing my best to focus on that as well...and know that I can do more as well post D. Yes, I'm acting out of fear, but it's fear for my future financially. I'm not afraid to be on my own. I'm no longer afraid of losing my H. I can only control me and I want to have control over my finances. That feels empowering to me. I don't feel desperate. I hope that makes sense?

As for being one of the strongest of the LBSs out here? I'm not so sure about that! I see a lot of strength in many of others out here and their strength has been guiding me as well. I feel so lucky to have found this forum, because what strength you see in me would have been impossible otherwise.

[Elbereth]

Just venting. H seems very stressed out and started a R convo with me that first started about our older son but eventually turned around to us. He tried to sound like he was trying to be supportive of me, but his statements showed anger and frustration of his own. He stated how he is overwhelmed by the whole D process (and the timeline HE told me he wanted), work, us, everything. I listened and tried to be supportive, but I reminded him that this sitch is what he wanted and initiated. He seems frustrated that I am not accepting his response to the funds he has spent, and I said, give me proof and we can take it from there. He reiterated that he isn't changing his mind on moving on with his life. I told him I am fully aware of that and have accepted that. I also reminded him that this whole situation isn't a cake walk for me and I want to move on with my life too. And that his tendency to never finish things has me concerned that I will be left in limbo. He acknowledge that issue. So, I said this was why I brought up the timeline the other day. I pushed that I wanted to go for a walk to end the R talk. All seemed fine enough after that and I went for a walk.

Later in the evening, he started to do more research on the missing funds. During this time he lashed out at me and I replied with an 'ouch' instead of a statement. He apologized that he was feeling stressed about it all and feeling grumpy. He looks miserable, he's still drinking a lot, he getting a big belly, and he looks like [censored]. There is that part of me that feels for him...that part of me that all these years was the one to help support him in his depression cycles. The one who even when I was dealing with my own health issues, put him first while he started his affair behind my back. I look back now and I realize that I was always expected to be the strong one, the one to take on the heavy loads of our relationship, and no matter how much I did, he pushed for more and said I wasn't doing enough. When I needed him most, he wasn't there for me. His XW was very weak...so I always told myself that it was that frustration with her that triggered his frustration with me. But now I think he's the weak one and when others can't give him the support he requires, he blames us instead of looking within and helping himself too.

One of his close friends told me that now looking back they realize that he wasn't there for his XW when she needed him after the birth of the boys. When she was struggling with health issues. I wonder if I missed this as a red flag...and a sign of what was to come for me. Or is it that men want a strong woman, but once they have one, they resent the strength and try to pull you down to their level? I don't know, but I know I need to do some work around this area and about how I feed or react to these sort of issues. My XH also grew to hate my strength. I thought my current H was a strong person when we first met, but time showed me that he isn't. Our courtship was quick, so by the time I saw these things, I was already living with him and fully committed to him. I want to be sure I find a true partner and equal in my next relationship. So this is an area I need to focus on. As my mom didn't remarry for a long time, I did not grow up a father figure until my early teens (my bio dad wasn't around). Maybe that has affected the choices I've made in my life on men?

Anyway, trying to take things one day at a time and just put one foot in front of the other each day. Thanks for listening and being there.

El

[Traveler]

Anyway, I hope that I’m not offending you by my statements.

Of course not. (: Your post was well thought-out, so I did take some time to consider it before responding.

Being a child of divorce and experiencing my moms few boyfriends that were not good to us (whom she got rid of when it became obvious), I knew from a child’s point of view how important the role was.

That ex (5-10yrs ago) grew up with divorced parents, too! I never connected that as a possible motive for her aspiration to be a great step-parent. I saw her getting closer to my kids as a way to get closer to me.

In your situation, you say “values weren’t aligned with yours” but if that is the case why would you even want to have a relationship with someone whose values are not aligned? I have a feeling that it may not have been your values but parenting style you have versus hers.

I shouldn't have been in a relationship with her. That ex amassed debt to put her sisters through college, because she didn't want them in debt. I didn't want her espousing doormat behavior to my kids.

Our parenting styles are different. So I know some of that played a role. But one has to realize there is no rule book or instruction manual on raising kids...so being open to trying new things is a good thing. Instead of considering my approaches, he shut them down. He also allowed them to walk all over me.

It's true I often dismissed her parenting style with, "You haven't been a parent, you don't get it." I'd never be that dismissive of even an employee trying new things unless they silently ignored the rules or guidelines. I've tried, but I can't answer where that arrogant prick version of me 5-10yrs ago came from. Keeping an emotional distance? A fragile ego? We can't change who we've been. If anyone ever tries so hard with my kids again, I will treat them like gold. My last ex, unlike that one, had even when living together as a "family" zero interest in bonding with my S and D and did not see the good in my kids vs her own. Yellow flag!

In the end, I think part of his crisis is that he’s angry that his kids are not what he hoped they would be. He looks at other people’s kids and wonders why they are so much better in his eyes then his own.

Aww, so sad. I LOVE my kids and where they are. I just want them to be happy and healthy. Anyway, I recognize the rarity and amazness of you being a great stepmom despite that challenging environment. I can't imagine being on your side of it--dismissed and unsupported--and prevailing in many ways. It sounds like you know your level of step-parenting is not common, based on you growing up with more than one poor stepdad. I'm glad the kids somewhat realize, and hope your ex someday realizes all you've done, hopefully sooner rather than 5-10yrs later. It's too bad we can't accelerate other people fixing themselves.

[Traveler]

Or is it that men want a strong woman, but once they have one, they resent the strength and try to pull you down to their level?

That sounds similar to the notion that most women seek a "Bad Boy", and then try to change/tame him? I think there are many, many men out there who would accept and celebrate your strength. Strength is awesome! My last ex was strong (world-class athlete, Harvard professor)--and quite the opposite, I loved it and enjoyed being challenged and wanted to support her growth and accomplishments. It was her who wanted to hold me down, whenever my performance threatened to outshine hers.

Our courtship was quick, so by the time I saw these things, I was already living with him and fully committed to him. I want to be sure I find a true partner and equal in my next relationship.

You solved your own riddle--we should be slower to go all-in. How do they make us feel? What do they bring out in us? Those questions are as important as attraction, values, and shared interests. If we can have a great life solo, what's the rush to go all-in with someone? I know the odds for second marriages are worse than for first marriages, but I feel great optimism based on all we've learned.

[AndrewP]

Or is it that men want a strong woman, but once they have one, they resent the strength and try to pull you down to their level? I don't know, but I know I need to do some work around this area and about how I feed or react to these sort of issues.

My brothers and I all married strong women. We are all pretty easy-going guys although my oldest brother has a stronger set of boundaries. We were all supportive of our wives endeavors and while successful ourselves did what we could to help them in their own successes.

Where it comes from I like to think is that we celebrate the successes of those we care about and don't measure ourselves by that. We were the best luggage carrying, prop building, potato finding guys going. We could always be trusted to keep Home safe and secure. And no - our last name isn't Gamgee, Elbereth.

[Elbereth]

AndrewP and CWarrior (and anyone else that read my post) I SHOULD HAVE SAID

Or is it that SOME men want a strong woman, but once they have one, they resent the strength and try to pull you down to their level?

I fully realize that not all men are the same and it was truly a mistake to not make it clear that some men, and it appears the men I have married, might feel this way...but there are lots of great men out there that DO support their strong women, and I want my next partner to be that kind of man. We had some reasons for rushing due to financials and other things, and yeah, I agree, we should have gone slower. Live and learn...right?

It's true I often dismissed her parenting style with, "You haven't been a parent, you don't get it." I'd never be that dismissive of even an employee trying new things unless they silently ignored the rules or guidelines. I've tried, but I can't answer where that arrogant prick version of me 5-10yrs ago came from. Keeping an emotional distance? A fragile ego? We can't change who we've been. If anyone ever tries so hard with my kids again, I will treat them like gold.

So good! I'm glad you feel differently now CWarrior. It truly is the hardest job ever...and as a step-mom I felt totally dismissed for my commitment to the kids, even by their bio mom. It is what it is now and all I can do is keep trying and keep loving those boys...and maybe someday their father will realize what I did for them and for him in the relationship we had.

El

[SteveLW]

Just venting. H seems very stressed out and started a R convo with me that first started about our older son but eventually turned around to us. He tried to sound like he was trying to be supportive of me, but his statements showed anger and frustration of his own. He stated how he is overwhelmed by the whole D process (and the timeline HE told me he wanted), work, us, everything. I listened and tried to be supportive, but I reminded him that this sitch is what he wanted and initiated. He seems frustrated that I am not accepting his response to the funds he has spent, and I said, give me proof and we can take it from there. He reiterated that he isn't changing his mind on moving on with his life. I told him I am fully aware of that and have accepted that. I also reminded him that this whole situation isn't a cake walk for me and I want to move on with my life too. And that his tendency to never finish things has me concerned that I will be left in limbo. He acknowledge that issue. So, I said this was why I brought up the timeline the other day. I pushed that I wanted to go for a walk to end the R talk. All seemed fine enough after that and I went for a walk.

Later in the evening, he started to do more research on the missing funds. During this time he lashed out at me and I replied with an 'ouch' instead of a statement. He apologized that he was feeling stressed about it all and feeling grumpy. He looks miserable, he's still drinking a lot, he getting a big belly, and he looks like [censored]. There is that part of me that feels for him...that part of me that all these years was the one to help support him in his depression cycles. The one who even when I was dealing with my own health issues, put him first while he started his affair behind my back. I look back now and I realize that I was always expected to be the strong one, the one to take on the heavy loads of our relationship, and no matter how much I did, he pushed for more and said I wasn't doing enough. When I needed him most, he wasn't there for me. His XW was very weak...so I always told myself that it was that frustration with her that triggered his frustration with me. But now I think he's the weak one and when others can't give him the support he requires, he blames us instead of looking within and helping himself too.

One of his close friends told me that now looking back they realize that he wasn't there for his XW when she needed him after the birth of the boys. When she was struggling with health issues. I wonder if I missed this as a red flag...and a sign of what was to come for me. Or is it that men want a strong woman, but once they have one, they resent the strength and try to pull you down to their level? I don't know, but I know I need to do some work around this area and about how I feed or react to these sort of issues. My XH also grew to hate my strength. I thought my current H was a strong person when we first met, but time showed me that he isn't. Our courtship was quick, so by the time I saw these things, I was already living with him and fully committed to him. I want to be sure I find a true partner and equal in my next relationship. So this is an area I need to focus on. As my mom didn't remarry for a long time, I did not grow up a father figure until my early teens (my bio dad wasn't around). Maybe that has affected the choices I've made in my life on men?

Anyway, trying to take things one day at a time and just put one foot in front of the other each day. Thanks for listening and being there.

El

Was the R talk in person? Why not try to shortcut it earlier? "I can't talk about this right now...." then go for your walk.

I applaud you ending it, but try to do so sooner next time. It seems that this really got you spinning, and then you started overanalyzing. We all know the funds were used to fuel his A. You need to document the spending with your L and move on from that. His own guilt on justifying the spending isn't your concern.

However, it seems to me he is a bit of a piece of work. When he starts feeling stressed or overwhelmed in his current marriage he goes looking for something else. Depression, avoidant, not being there for his spouse, all sound like deep character flaws that can only be worked through with intense therapy, and certainly not alcohol. At this point I would be running for the door if I were you!

By the way, my W is a very strong woman. I wouldn't have it any other way!

[SteveLW]

As far as what to look for in a new R, I find that people often look for the wrong things. We just discussed this in Ace32's thread. When I was single I always tried to find the woman I was smitten with, that I was crazy for. Spent decades waiting for my "true love" to come around, and she never did. Met my W and was immediately taken with her, at first she was hesitant. I often wonder if that hesitancy at first was what has caused us issues. I had lots of women when I was an eligible bachelor that were cuckoo for cocoa puffs about me. One in particular that I briefly dated, would come back and poke around every few years to see if my interest had changed. She finally gave up when I married my W. But I look back and kick myself for not giving her more of a chance. My 20/20 glasses have convinced me that what we should be looking for is someone that is crazy about us, not that we are crazy about. I look at my brother, he married a woman that was bonkers for him. She wasn't the best looking woman that was interested in him, but he prioritized how much she loved him over looks. And they've been happily married for a long time! I was too shallow and tried to find the person I was crazy for instead of the other way around.

So take your time. Learn to be happy alone. Do the work necessary on yourself and don't jump into something new right away. We are about the same age, and at our age everyone we meet will have their own emotional baggage. Make sure they've worked through all of that themselves, and that you have through yours, before jumping into something again.